| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:32 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:40 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:59 |
rubenwardy |
Doesn't really feel worth our time to support a platform that is so Foss hostile |
| 01:01 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:05 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:40 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:56 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> And apple isn't very popular outside the US, which is a kinda good thing? I hate the duopoly of overpriced vs sell your soul. There's space for middle ground in there... |
| 04:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:27 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:05 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:45 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> I'd be ready to work on the programming part of ios support, if I had the necessary apple devices |
| 05:49 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> what if we opened a Liberapay to cover that apple fee? the monthly goal would be $8.25, which seems quite achievable. |
| 05:51 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> I admit it would be a bit strange, but it could work. |
| 05:51 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> The target audience would surely have the money to contribute anyway :^) |
| 05:55 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:37 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> We already have a LiberaPay: you can join the team and basically do whatever you want with your part :P |
| 06:39 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> But I agree with rubenwardy, we'd basically pay a FOSS hostile leviathan, which is a paradox. Wouldn't be better to put bounties around and ignore this expensive walled garden? |
| 07:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> my idea was a separate team because people who donate to the existing team probably don't expect to be donating to Apple |
| 07:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> re just ignoring: I want people to play Minetest on mobile, which is hard without ios support since many people have ios devices |
| 07:51 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Fair, but it's not our fault if Apple is like that, and people usually buy Apple products as a status symbol, so they kind of deserve it. If you personally want to give Apple 100$ every year I can't stop you, but if we're gonna vote for that I'll oppose - also because it means to maintain yet another social profile. I think that putting money on bounties affecting every kind of user is money better spent than financially sup |
| 08:21 |
|
vampirefrog joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:43 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> (Oppose as in "I'll vote against", not as in "putting a veto", also because I don't have such power) |
| 10:32 |
Noisytoot |
Is LGPLv2.1+ even compatible with the apple app store ToS? |
| 10:33 |
Noisytoot |
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement |
| 10:35 |
Noisytoot |
Unless the app store ToS has changed, I think not, since the LGPLv2.1 still has the "no further restrictions" clause |
| 10:41 |
Noisytoot |
I'm not sure why relicensing to LGPLv3 would help either. It inherits the "no further restrictions" clause from the GPLv3: "This version of the GNU Lesser General Public License incorporates the terms and conditions of version 3 of the GNU General Public License, supplemented by the additional permissions listed below." |
| 10:43 |
sfan5 |
surely there's better material than a 14 year old(!) blog post |
| 11:21 |
|
Noisytoot joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:37 |
|
hlqkj joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:53 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> Zughy around here people buy apple because they think its the best in terms of features and privacy, not as a status symbol. |
| 12:54 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> often their parents buy it for them due to the family controls it offers |
| 12:56 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> from what I understand, if you want a pretty, walled garden, apple's walled garden is superior to android's |
| 12:58 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> Also ipad seems to have a reputation as a better inking device than most windows or androids can provide except at several-thousand-dollar pricepoints |
| 12:58 |
celeron55 |
people buy apple because it just works, no matter how dumb the user is. the software is impossible to break because it's so restrictive |
| 12:59 |
celeron55 |
people literally like apple because apple is so restrictive |
| 12:59 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> so the question is, should these people be allowed to play minetest, or are they stuck with Multicraft and Minecraft because they deserve it? |
| 13:00 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Most of what I've seen is people just buying apple because it's their religion. It runs in families, and they were brought up to believe in it. |
| 13:00 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> imo, letting them join the minetest community might make them more curious about more hackable systems |
| 13:01 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> warr: this is ... true 😛 |
| 13:01 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I think Apple people should definitely be allowed to play minetest, and it's really a disservice to its users that Apple has put so many obstacles, both in licensing and cost, in front of them. |
| 13:01 |
celeron55 |
(if a core dev wants to do apple stuff, i can cover the developer fee, that's not a problem. but you'll need to get a cheap used device from somewhere. anyway, i would be surprised if someone wants to do it, it doesn't seem like fun to me) |
| 13:02 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> re "doesn't seem like fun" tbh I'm surprised that anyone even has the stomach for android, even though it's a ton more FOSS friendly |
| 13:03 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> other option: since apple devices are so powerful (source: hearsay), adapt paradust's webport to use android controls and officially host the web port with optional mobile support. players can then install the website "as an app" |
| 13:03 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> (source: heresy) |
| 13:03 |
celeron55 |
android is tolerable, even though i wouldn't call it fun either. it's like ingesting barbed wire without the spikes, while apple is with the spikes |
| 13:04 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> A big obstacle to using the web version as a hack to make the game accessible on Apple devices is that Apple has generally been pretty web-hostile, so that may end up an exercise in frustration in its own way. |
| 13:04 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> when you can use touchscreen controls on any device, we will finally support the pinephone, I think |
| 13:06 |
celeron55 |
one thing to notice is, apple users are used to paying for stuff. it would probably be trivial to set a cost for the app high enough to cover the developer fee and a (cheap used) apple device for a developer. the thought kind of makes me want to puke, but rationally thinking milking money from the closed source world to maintain an FOSS project is a fairly charitable thing to do |
| 13:07 |
celeron55 |
but honestly i just don't want to think about apple. it's depressing |
| 13:09 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> ad: Pay for minetest (no ads!) Hint: if you had android, linux, windows or literally anything else it would be free because apple, but thanks for your support! |
| 13:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I really don't understand why are we considering iOS when money could be put into improving the actual issues we have |
| 13:16 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> as if we're not already maintaining a lot of stuff, probably stressing core devs enough |
| 13:19 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> It gets asked for a lot, and a lot of people are on Apple not by choice. It's going to keep coming up over and over again, one way or another. |
| 13:19 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> also, "cheap" and "Apple" don't go along. The core dev should keep sticking with a kinda new device, so it's more than una tantum for the first device |
| 13:20 |
celeron55 |
it's up to individual core devs what they want to do. i don't think apple will ever be on the roadmap |
| 13:20 |
celeron55 |
but it's always good to be aware of the options |
| 13:20 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> RE "it's up to individual core devs what they want to do": as long as it doesn't affect the others, sure |
| 13:21 |
celeron55 |
and it's good to be aware of apple's world when it comes to licenses |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
there's a branch with a super old, playable but maybe incomplete iOS port here https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/commits/ios_new/ |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
all code is original work by me |
| 15:20 |
|
Desour joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:13 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:37 |
|
vampirefrog joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:21 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:01 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:05 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:48 |
pgimeno |
someone already mentioned it, but I think it's worth repeating it with an official reference: you don't necessarily need to pay in order to develop for Apple https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-waiver/ |
| 19:52 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:57 |
|
v-rob_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:58 |
celeron55 |
i'd like to add sfence to the core team. comments? |
| 20:01 |
Mantar |
I thought he already was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 20:06 |
celeron55 |
(i agree, asking this is pretty much a formality in this case) |
| 20:13 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You're the boss, boss |
| 20:16 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:21 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Yet he's wise enough to consult with his most trusted developers, even though there's unlikely to be any issue. |
| 21:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> celeron55: in favor |
| 21:23 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:24 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> celeron55: how about the other name in the super secret discussion? 👀 |
| 21:51 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> If it's super secret then we definitely need to do it. Having a secret core dev would be so intriguing! |
| 21:52 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> It'd probably be Erlehmann. They'd definitely want to keep that a secret. |
| 21:54 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> "In the super secret meeting, we both discussed erle's induction into the core team, as well as zughy's potential resignation on a related note" |
| 21:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Finally I'm free. I can now make money on the MC marketplace |
| 22:21 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:34 |
|
panwolfram joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:05 |
|
Eragon joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> can confirm, i was part of the super secret meeting in which we discussed that Minetest is to be renamed to Blocky McBlockface. |
| 23:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> anyways looking at the 5.9 milestone, everything seems to be coming together nicely. the SDL keybind issue is pretty much the only thing on there which lacks a decent solution. i'm curious to see what josiah comes up with. |
| 23:50 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> "everything seems to be coming together nicely", fortunately, because PRs are definitely rising |
