Time Nick Message 00:59 rubenwardy Doesn't really feel worth our time to support a platform that is so Foss hostile 01:56 MTDiscord And apple isn't very popular outside the US, which is a kinda good thing? I hate the duopoly of overpriced vs sell your soul. There's space for middle ground in there... 05:45 [MTMatrix] I'd be ready to work on the programming part of ios support, if I had the necessary apple devices 05:49 [MTMatrix] what if we opened a Liberapay to cover that apple fee? the monthly goal would be $8.25, which seems quite achievable. 05:51 [MTMatrix] I admit it would be a bit strange, but it could work. 05:51 MTDiscord The target audience would surely have the money to contribute anyway :^) 06:37 [MTMatrix] We already have a LiberaPay: you can join the team and basically do whatever you want with your part :P 06:39 [MTMatrix] But I agree with rubenwardy, we'd basically pay a FOSS hostile leviathan, which is a paradox. Wouldn't be better to put bounties around and ignore this expensive walled garden? 07:07 [MTMatrix] my idea was a separate team because people who donate to the existing team probably don't expect to be donating to Apple 07:11 [MTMatrix] re just ignoring: I want people to play Minetest on mobile, which is hard without ios support since many people have ios devices 07:51 [MTMatrix] Fair, but it's not our fault if Apple is like that, and people usually buy Apple products as a status symbol, so they kind of deserve it. If you personally want to give Apple 100$ every year I can't stop you, but if we're gonna vote for that I'll oppose - also because it means to maintain yet another social profile. I think that putting money on bounties affecting every kind of user is money better spent than financially sup 09:43 [MTMatrix] (Oppose as in "I'll vote against", not as in "putting a veto", also because I don't have such power) 10:32 Noisytoot Is LGPLv2.1+ even compatible with the apple app store ToS? 10:33 Noisytoot https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement 10:35 Noisytoot Unless the app store ToS has changed, I think not, since the LGPLv2.1 still has the "no further restrictions" clause 10:41 Noisytoot I'm not sure why relicensing to LGPLv3 would help either. It inherits the "no further restrictions" clause from the GPLv3: "This version of the GNU Lesser General Public License incorporates the terms and conditions of version 3 of the GNU General Public License, supplemented by the additional permissions listed below." 10:43 sfan5 surely there's better material than a 14 year old(!) blog post 12:53 MTDiscord Zughy around here people buy apple because they think its the best in terms of features and privacy, not as a status symbol. 12:54 MTDiscord often their parents buy it for them due to the family controls it offers 12:56 MTDiscord from what I understand, if you want a pretty, walled garden, apple's walled garden is superior to android's 12:58 MTDiscord Also ipad seems to have a reputation as a better inking device than most windows or androids can provide except at several-thousand-dollar pricepoints 12:58 celeron55 people buy apple because it just works, no matter how dumb the user is. the software is impossible to break because it's so restrictive 12:59 celeron55 people literally like apple because apple is so restrictive 12:59 MTDiscord so the question is, should these people be allowed to play minetest, or are they stuck with Multicraft and Minecraft because they deserve it? 13:00 MTDiscord Most of what I've seen is people just buying apple because it's their religion. It runs in families, and they were brought up to believe in it. 13:00 MTDiscord imo, letting them join the minetest community might make them more curious about more hackable systems 13:01 MTDiscord warr: this is ... true 😛 13:01 MTDiscord I think Apple people should definitely be allowed to play minetest, and it's really a disservice to its users that Apple has put so many obstacles, both in licensing and cost, in front of them. 13:01 celeron55 (if a core dev wants to do apple stuff, i can cover the developer fee, that's not a problem. but you'll need to get a cheap used device from somewhere. anyway, i would be surprised if someone wants to do it, it doesn't seem like fun to me) 13:02 MTDiscord re "doesn't seem like fun" tbh I'm surprised that anyone even has the stomach for android, even though it's a ton more FOSS friendly 13:03 MTDiscord other option: since apple devices are so powerful (source: hearsay), adapt paradust's webport to use android controls and officially host the web port with optional mobile support. players can then install the website "as an app" 13:03 MTDiscord (source: heresy) 13:03 celeron55 android is tolerable, even though i wouldn't call it fun either. it's like ingesting barbed wire without the spikes, while apple is with the spikes 13:04 MTDiscord A big obstacle to using the web version as a hack to make the game accessible on Apple devices is that Apple has generally been pretty web-hostile, so that may end up an exercise in frustration in its own way. 13:04 MTDiscord when you can use touchscreen controls on any device, we will finally support the pinephone, I think 13:06 celeron55 one thing to notice is, apple users are used to paying for stuff. it would probably be trivial to set a cost for the app high enough to cover the developer fee and a (cheap used) apple device for a developer. the thought kind of makes me want to puke, but rationally thinking milking money from the closed source world to maintain an FOSS project is a fairly charitable thing to do 13:07 celeron55 but honestly i just don't want to think about apple. it's depressing 13:09 MTDiscord ad: Pay for minetest (no ads!) Hint: if you had android, linux, windows or literally anything else it would be free because apple, but thanks for your support! 13:15 [MTMatrix] I really don't understand why are we considering iOS when money could be put into improving the actual issues we have 13:16 [MTMatrix] as if we're not already maintaining a lot of stuff, probably stressing core devs enough 13:19 MTDiscord It gets asked for a lot, and a lot of people are on Apple not by choice. It's going to keep coming up over and over again, one way or another. 13:19 [MTMatrix] also, "cheap" and "Apple" don't go along. The core dev should keep sticking with a kinda new device, so it's more than una tantum for the first device 13:20 celeron55 it's up to individual core devs what they want to do. i don't think apple will ever be on the roadmap 13:20 celeron55 but it's always good to be aware of the options 13:20 [MTMatrix] RE "it's up to individual core devs what they want to do": as long as it doesn't affect the others, sure 13:21 celeron55 and it's good to be aware of apple's world when it comes to licenses 13:23 sfan5 there's a branch with a super old, playable but maybe incomplete iOS port here https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/commits/ios_new/ 13:23 sfan5 all code is original work by me 19:48 pgimeno someone already mentioned it, but I think it's worth repeating it with an official reference: you don't necessarily need to pay in order to develop for Apple https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-waiver/ 19:58 celeron55 i'd like to add sfence to the core team. comments? 20:01 Mantar I thought he already was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 20:06 celeron55 (i agree, asking this is pretty much a formality in this case) 20:13 MTDiscord You're the boss, boss 20:21 MTDiscord Yet he's wise enough to consult with his most trusted developers, even though there's unlikely to be any issue. 21:18 MTDiscord celeron55: in favor 21:24 [MTMatrix] celeron55: how about the other name in the super secret discussion? 👀 21:51 MTDiscord If it's super secret then we definitely need to do it. Having a secret core dev would be so intriguing! 21:52 MTDiscord It'd probably be Erlehmann. They'd definitely want to keep that a secret. 21:54 MTDiscord "In the super secret meeting, we both discussed erle's induction into the core team, as well as zughy's potential resignation on a related note" 21:58 [MTMatrix] Finally I'm free. I can now make money on the MC marketplace 23:31 MTDiscord can confirm, i was part of the super secret meeting in which we discussed that Minetest is to be renamed to Blocky McBlockface. 23:35 MTDiscord anyways looking at the 5.9 milestone, everything seems to be coming together nicely. the SDL keybind issue is pretty much the only thing on there which lacks a decent solution. i'm curious to see what josiah comes up with. 23:50 [MTMatrix] "everything seems to be coming together nicely", fortunately, because PRs are definitely rising