| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:27 |
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| 06:11 |
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| 11:33 |
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| 11:50 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Reminder for the staff to vote for the new name of Minetest |
| 11:51 |
ROllerozxa |
the node mcnodeface engine |
| 12:26 |
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| 13:51 |
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| 14:20 |
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| 15:30 |
MTDiscord |
<andrey2470t> I think the tag "Rebase needed" should be removed in my Dual wielding PR if it was rebased already few days ago? |
| 15:45 |
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| 15:58 |
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| 16:07 |
sfan5 |
opinions needed re #14483 |
| 16:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14483 -- [no squash] Irrlicht import by Desour |
| 16:22 |
Krock |
I'd prefer submodules but well that's not wanted apparently |
| 16:24 |
sfan5 |
the long-term plan isn't to keep irrlicht separate |
| 19:02 |
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| 20:51 |
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| 21:21 |
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| 21:55 |
MTDiscord |
<vejou> idea |
| 21:55 |
MTDiscord |
<vejou> what if irrlicht was separate and people can mod other render engines in |
| 21:55 |
MTDiscord |
<vejou> ill move that to lounge chat |
| 21:57 |
celeron55_ |
what if... irrlicht was separate for 14 years and nobody did that |
| 22:13 |
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| 22:19 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> It is a little concerning to me that even up until now I haven't heard the reason for absorbing Irrlicht articulated even once. |
| 22:20 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> It's probably been discussed somewhere, it just seems like everybody takes it for granted, and doesn't talk about it. |
| 22:21 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I've not been in favour of it because I value the ability to contribute to an upstream project very highly. The nature of open source is that users can contribute something back to improve the project. The Irrlicht community is still active, so severing ourselves from them seems like sort of a drastic and potentially controversial decision to me. |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Pretty sure the idea is that by the time it is merged into the engine, it wont really be irrlicht any more |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Maybe it's because core devs use different communication channels and don't share those discussions with the community. |
| 22:24 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> So we think it'll be faster to redo the architecture of the existing Irrlicht engine compared to writing our own? |
| 22:24 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> frankly, between reading here and github issues/prs, have been well informed. i suggest you do the same |
| 22:25 |
celeron55_ |
irrlicht isn't maintained anymore and is grossly outdated in every possible way. by absorbing it into the engine we can get rid of it. the unneeded parts will be shed off and the necessary parts will get modernized |
| 22:25 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> That does make sense. |
| 22:25 |
celeron55_ |
this process has been going for a long time already. it was started years ago |
| 22:25 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> In my past experience, Minetest's GitHub has contained a lot of controversy, drama, rude language, and bikeshedding. I don't consider it a trustworthy source of information anymore. |
| 22:26 |
celeron55_ |
getting rid of the separate repo is a major milestone in the process, of course |
| 22:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> The core devs sometimes post useful information there, but I don't have time to filter through all the spam. I'm a college student. |
| 22:28 |
celeron55_ |
that's where most development discussion happens, though. it's the obvious place for it, and it's designed for developers so developers like it. it may be a bit much for those wanting to just follow along though |
| 22:28 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> so basically you dont want to read the one of the two places (irc and github) that development is done. yet you complain here about not being informed |
| 22:29 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Perhaps it was wrong of me to complain here. I am sorry. |
| 22:30 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> for context, it is stated at the head of the irrlichtmt roadmap issue > IrrlichtMt is meant to be copied into Minetest some day, ideally at a point where we can throw away much of the code because we would use SDL2 + our own OpenGL(ES) renderer by then. https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht/issues/107 |
| 22:30 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I have read that thread multiple times. It doesn't contain any information about the rational or decision making, and what alternatives were rejected and why. |
| 22:31 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Also, ideally is italicized, indicating that it's not a realistic expectation. |
| 22:31 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> The issue is a good summary of the work that needs to be done to achieve a goal that was already decided upon somewhere else. |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> there was an issue in minetest/minetest that had iirc what you are looking for. talking about upstream irrlicht taking forever to release, etc. suppose i have to find it for you |
| 22:38 |
Mantar |
irrlicht is still maintained though? https://sourceforge.net/p/irrlicht/code/HEAD/tree/ lists the last update as as 2024-03-16 |
| 22:38 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> ah, here we go: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10738 |
| 22:39 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> mantar: i quote the above issue, which is 3 ish years old now > 1.9 has been in-dev since like 2013, it has a lot of big changes |
| 22:40 |
Mantar |
that's very different from "irrlicht isn't maintained anymore" |
| 22:41 |
Mantar |
more correct to say "the next release is stuck in development hell" |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Ok |
| 22:43 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> iirc 10738 was one of the things that sparked off minetest forking irrlicht (note the orginal comment has been since edited to reflect the fork, read orginal version). you would have to dig in here for additional conversations as well as some other issues |
| 22:45 |
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| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Writing a modern OGL 4 backend is something I'm considering since it might enable proper order-independent transparency, which in turn enables some instancing optimizations. It'd probably be a massive chunk of work though. |
| 22:50 |
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| 22:50 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> additionally, minetest probably isnt the first or the last to fork/replace irrlicht. most notable fork continuing on as a project is probably https://github.com/Devsh-Graphics-Programming/Nabla |
| 23:33 |
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