| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 13:41 |
grorp |
merging #14466 (thanks for reviewing) and https://github.com/grorp/minetest/commit/888294d3bb9e905a17b1ee90208598de6809058b in 15 min |
| 13:41 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14466 -- Remove excessive touchscreengui.h includes by grorp |
| 14:03 |
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| 14:22 |
sfan5 |
call me stupid but I have only just now realized what the in-game time value means https://0x0.st/Xrsg.png |
| 14:36 |
sfan5 |
merging #14347, #14423 in 15m |
| 14:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14347 -- Item meta pointing range by cx384 |
| 14:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14423 -- [no sq] Server bug fixes and unit tests by sfan5 |
| 14:49 |
Krock |
heh nice |
| 14:53 |
Krock |
might it make sense to introduce a numeric API level? It's not as readable as feature flags but wouldn't slowly get out of hand |
| 14:53 |
Krock |
similar to formspec_version and the protocol version |
| 14:54 |
Krock |
also: meeting in 5 minutes. https://dev.minetest.net/Meetings#2024-03-17 This one might be rather short |
| 14:55 |
Desour |
are you worried because we already added about 9 new feature flags in this dev version? |
| 14:55 |
Krock |
I'm worried what we might have by the time we reach 6.0.0 |
| 14:56 |
Krock |
backwards compat would be rather simple with metatables |
| 14:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Since there are no points, I'd like to discuss renaming |
| 14:59 |
sfan5 |
I still haven't read the internal discussion... |
| 15:01 |
Krock |
Meeting start. The ones who :+1:'d are already here |
| 15:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I can sum it up if you want |
| 15:01 |
Krock |
I skipped most of that discussion. It didn't seem important to me |
| 15:06 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Well: GreenXenith came up with some solutions using an LLM since he doesn't know Finnish, and the whole thing is stuck because Celeron, the only one who knows Finnish, is not replying |
| 15:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> The renaming issue is 10 month old, I feel like the impression we're giving to the public is bad |
| 15:09 |
Krock |
what does the public think about that? |
| 15:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I'd say that it takes ages |
| 15:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Either we go with a name of a language we speak and we cut the chase (maybe Celeron is super busy, I don't know), we don't renane at all or.. I've run out of ideas |
| 15:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> *rename |
| 15:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Again, I'd suggest to rename due to the first impression the name it gives (rubenwardy and other people at FOSDEM can confirm) |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
we should definitely rename |
| 15:24 |
Krock |
okay for me too. neutral. Next question would be which name, I guess? |
| 15:26 |
Desour |
which is discussed in the internal discussion |
| 15:27 |
rubenwardy |
reminder not to discuss names publicly, as it may lead to domain sniping |
| 15:27 |
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| 15:29 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> If GH supports surveys, I can create one picking a few of the names discussed (the most discussed of course) |
| 15:29 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Internal |
| 15:29 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> "people at FOSDEM can confirm" tbh, at Fosdem I was surprised about how many people already knew about Minetest, and they were surprised to see how much it evolved. So by changing the name we would loose "that", whatever "that" is worth. I imagine MTG would keep its name though, and we could tell people "remember the Minetest game? it's an engine now, and it's called _" Also, in my projects, Minetest is constantly being described |
| 15:29 |
MTDiscord |
as "Minecraft clone". Non-gamers barely understand the difference, and they will even say Minecraft instead of Minetest (during meetings, on documents, etc). I believe this could be problematic in the sense that Minetest is competing with Minecraft for EDU projects. |
| 15:30 |
sfan5 |
regarding re-recongizability: I assume we'll be keeping the logo |
| 15:30 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, we'd keep the logo and probably go by "Foobar (formally known as Minetest)" for a while |
| 15:31 |
sfan5 |
formerly* :) |
| 15:31 |
Krock |
the logo definitely has to stay |
| 15:31 |
rubenwardy |
haha |
| 15:31 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> would something like "engine born from the Minetest game" work? |
| 15:31 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest would be our name whilst wearing suits |
| 15:32 |
Desour |
(while I like the logo, it actually just depicts a typical mtg-like game. so I wouldn't wonder if we'll change it eventually in the far future) |
| 15:34 |
sfan5 |
idea: remove the colors and turn it into outline only |
| 15:35 |
sfan5 |
metaphor for how an engine enables you to build such a game |
| 15:35 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> probably, but it's a bad approach to change name and logo at the same time, as you completely remove recognition, "brand awareness" (🤮) |
| 15:36 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> *recognisability |
| 15:38 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> yeah, a lot of Minecraft communities are using the sky island/skyblock logo but I do think it is pretty recognizable and clean I wonder if people recognize more the logo or the name though |
| 15:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> TIL you can't remove categories from GH Discussions (or at least I can't) |
| 15:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/KrcLxvfgdcLvEhXssFcUnRMf |
| 15:43 |
Krock |
oh yes indeed |
| 15:44 |
Krock |
sfan5: whereas I understand the intention, I think it would result in a rather boring logo |
| 15:47 |
Desour |
lmao it now looks like someone just left a pile of poo at the discussions |
| 15:47 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> zughy: maybe its because you dont have enough permissions perhaps? |
| 15:47 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> might be |
| 15:48 |
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| 15:48 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> https://docs.github.com/en/discussions/managing-discussions-for-your-community/managing-categories-for-discussions#deleting-a-category |
| 15:51 |
sfan5 |
#14438 ready for review btw |
| 15:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14438 -- [no sq] Server code cleanups / refactors by sfan5 |
| 15:53 |
Niklp |
Hi, #14355 broke the L-system tree generation partially, the commit before works perfectly fine. https://files.niklp.net/screenshot_20240317_165056.png (I'll open an issue later) |
| 15:53 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14355 -- Add L-system trees as decorations by cx384 |
| 15:55 |
Krock |
hmm that's a lot of changed lines |
| 15:55 |
Krock |
Niklp: looks like param1 is wrong |
| 15:56 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yeah, thats the issue, that the engine is messing with param1 in lsystems |
| 15:56 |
Krock |
perhaps it's not set at all (in the vmanip) |
| 15:56 |
sfan5 |
don't forget to add a minimal example when you open an issue |
| 15:56 |
Krock |
please include reproduction steps so that I can have a look at it |
| 15:57 |
Krock |
dammit those ninjas |
| 15:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I've created a poll but it doesn't allow multiple casting. Jeez... |
| 15:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I swear I hate GH |
| 16:00 |
Desour |
maybe just link to an external voting thing |
| 16:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> yep, looking for something |
| 16:01 |
sfan5 |
you can keep the names inside GH and use numbers to refer to them |
| 16:02 |
Desour |
or just keep the link secret |
| 16:02 |
cx384 |
It is probably the fault of the NodeResolver, since this is the only thing which has change for not-mapgen lsystem trees. (Due to a suggestion from sfan5 I changed it at right before it got merged.) |
| 16:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I'd be great if people could react with numbers, but you can only react with a small set of emoji :\ |
| 16:03 |
cx384 |
I looked through the proposed new names for minetest and even the most upvoted one "kutiko" seems to be quite bad. After a quick search I found those things: https://www.kutikoooo.de/kutikos-15/ https://nona.net/features/map/placedetail.2251699/Kutiko/ https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%8F%E3%81%A1%E3%81%93 (And only very few people who use minetest can speak Finnish.) |
| 16:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> also reacting with emojis will impact your voting |
| 16:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> because you'd see other people votes |
| 16:03 |
cx384 |
(The japanese triangles are digestible sea cucumber.) |
| 16:03 |
Desour |
also, "do you want to take the :tada: name, or the grumpy face name" |
| 16:06 |
Desour |
btw. for the actual voting (as opposed to a survey), we need something more complicated than "the one with the most vote wins". we should imo rather take the name with least resistance. too bad there's no perfect way of voting |
| 16:06 |
sfan5 |
could vote with +1, 0, -1 |
| 16:08 |
Desour |
you'd usually start with a ranking from everyone, and then hope people were honest |
| 16:08 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> if we use an external service, we can't be sure people double voted or not |
| 16:08 |
Desour |
if you just vote +1,0,-1, you'd just -1 popular options that you don't like |
| 16:09 |
Krock |
write a webpage for vorting that requires GitHub oauth to ensure you're a member and cannot double-vote 8) |
| 16:09 |
Krock |
s/vorting/voting/ |
| 16:09 |
Desour |
won't work if the one running the webpage can't be trusted |
| 16:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> imagine having a lot of employees and not being able to offer a poll with multiple answers |
| 16:10 |
Desour |
if you know how many voted, and if everyone said they voted, it could work |
| 16:10 |
Niklp |
Krock: issue created, see #14471 |
| 16:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14471 -- L-system tree nodes aren't always correctly rotated since #14355 |
| 16:11 |
sfan5 |
I'm sure we could shove GPG signing into the solution space |
| 16:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I might go with the 0/+1 approach |
| 16:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> creating a comment for every name |
| 16:12 |
Desour |
fwiw, I don't actually care if my vote is secret, btw. |
| 16:12 |
Krock |
make two polls: one for +1 and the other for -1 |
| 16:12 |
Krock |
sum up and you've got the favourite |
| 16:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> thank you https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/15841 |
| 16:15 |
Desour |
the forums' polls are better. minetest forums > gh |
| 16:20 |
Krock |
shall I provide a fix for #14471 or is already someone on it? looks at sfan5 |
| 16:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14471 -- L-system tree nodes aren't always correctly rotated since #14355 |
| 16:21 |
sfan5 |
i don't plan to do more than that comment there |
| 16:21 |
Krock |
okay. it's pretty easy so I'll go ahead |
| 16:23 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Discussion created, please cast your vote |
| 16:26 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> Problem with the forum is sign-ups are broken again |
| 16:26 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> At least the forums don't take forever to load now tho |
| 16:33 |
Krock |
planning to push https://pastebin.com/raw/yeGHmA4Q in 15 minutes to fix the L-system tree issues - objections, feedback? |
| 16:43 |
Desour |
Krock: you could use default member initializers instead |
| 16:44 |
Krock |
Desour: will MapNode trunknode {CONTENT_IGNORE}; initialize the other valies? |
| 16:44 |
Krock |
*members |
| 16:45 |
Krock |
because with the other notation I am sure that it calls the default constructor |
| 16:45 |
Krock |
or with arguments provided - the one that initializes param1 and 2 with 0 by default |
| 16:47 |
Desour |
Krock: `MapNode trunknode;` already calls the default constructor (which leaves the values unititialized). `MapNode trunknode {CONTENT_IGNORE};` is equivalent to `MapNode trunknode = CONTENT_IGNORE;`, and copy-constructs with the default copy contructor |
| 16:47 |
Desour |
oops, sry |
| 16:48 |
Desour |
(it's content_ignore, not node_ignore) |
| 16:48 |
Desour |
`MapNode trunknode {CONTENT_IGNORE};` should call the `MapNode(content_t content, u8 a_param1=0, u8 a_param2=0)` constructor |
| 16:49 |
Krock |
does it matter performance-wise? |
| 16:49 |
Desour |
idk how it would |
| 16:49 |
Krock |
I mean I could decompile the binary but I don't feel like putting that much effort into it |
| 16:50 |
Desour |
well, if you define the TreeDef constructor in the cpp file, it can't be inlined |
| 16:59 |
Krock |
moved to header. I noticed that I had to actively provoke this issue on my side. The uninitialized value always resulted in upright trunks |
| 17:38 |
Krock |
okay. will push https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14471#issuecomment-2002542700 in 15 minutes. It's the way I prefer it. |
| 18:06 |
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| 18:22 |
sfan5 |
it would be nice if someone could adopt #13512, it would allow deleting some annoying code from irrlicht |
| 18:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13512 -- Replace Irrlicht file picker with new Lua dialog by rollerozxa |
| 18:40 |
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| 19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> Pokes @Amanda with a stick |
| 19:37 |
ROllerozxa |
o.o |
| 20:41 |
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| 21:09 |
pgimeno |
it would be nice if a poll about the name was randomized - I realize that my suggestion for a name was not that great, it was just close to the top |
| 22:10 |
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| 22:55 |
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| 23:32 |
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| 23:40 |
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