Time Nick Message 13:41 grorp merging #14466 (thanks for reviewing) and https://github.com/grorp/minetest/commit/888294d3bb9e905a17b1ee90208598de6809058b in 15 min 13:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14466 -- Remove excessive touchscreengui.h includes by grorp 14:22 sfan5 call me stupid but I have only just now realized what the in-game time value means https://0x0.st/Xrsg.png 14:36 sfan5 merging #14347, #14423 in 15m 14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14347 -- Item meta pointing range by cx384 14:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14423 -- [no sq] Server bug fixes and unit tests by sfan5 14:49 Krock heh nice 14:53 Krock might it make sense to introduce a numeric API level? It's not as readable as feature flags but wouldn't slowly get out of hand 14:53 Krock similar to formspec_version and the protocol version 14:54 Krock also: meeting in 5 minutes. https://dev.minetest.net/Meetings#2024-03-17 This one might be rather short 14:55 Desour are you worried because we already added about 9 new feature flags in this dev version? 14:55 Krock I'm worried what we might have by the time we reach 6.0.0 14:56 Krock backwards compat would be rather simple with metatables 14:59 [MTMatrix] Since there are no points, I'd like to discuss renaming 14:59 sfan5 I still haven't read the internal discussion... 15:01 Krock Meeting start. The ones who :+1:'d are already here 15:01 [MTMatrix] I can sum it up if you want 15:01 Krock I skipped most of that discussion. It didn't seem important to me 15:06 [MTMatrix] Well: GreenXenith came up with some solutions using an LLM since he doesn't know Finnish, and the whole thing is stuck because Celeron, the only one who knows Finnish, is not replying 15:07 [MTMatrix] The renaming issue is 10 month old, I feel like the impression we're giving to the public is bad 15:09 Krock what does the public think about that? 15:10 [MTMatrix] I'd say that it takes ages 15:11 [MTMatrix] Either we go with a name of a language we speak and we cut the chase (maybe Celeron is super busy, I don't know), we don't renane at all or.. I've run out of ideas 15:11 [MTMatrix] *rename 15:14 [MTMatrix] Again, I'd suggest to rename due to the first impression the name it gives (rubenwardy and other people at FOSDEM can confirm) 15:23 sfan5 we should definitely rename 15:24 Krock okay for me too. neutral. Next question would be which name, I guess? 15:26 Desour which is discussed in the internal discussion 15:27 rubenwardy reminder not to discuss names publicly, as it may lead to domain sniping 15:29 [MTMatrix] If GH supports surveys, I can create one picking a few of the names discussed (the most discussed of course) 15:29 [MTMatrix] Internal 15:29 MTDiscord "people at FOSDEM can confirm" tbh, at Fosdem I was surprised about how many people already knew about Minetest, and they were surprised to see how much it evolved. So by changing the name we would loose "that", whatever "that" is worth. I imagine MTG would keep its name though, and we could tell people "remember the Minetest game? it's an engine now, and it's called _" Also, in my projects, Minetest is constantly being described 15:29 MTDiscord as "Minecraft clone". Non-gamers barely understand the difference, and they will even say Minecraft instead of Minetest (during meetings, on documents, etc). I believe this could be problematic in the sense that Minetest is competing with Minecraft for EDU projects. 15:30 sfan5 regarding re-recongizability: I assume we'll be keeping the logo 15:30 rubenwardy Yeah, we'd keep the logo and probably go by "Foobar (formally known as Minetest)" for a while 15:31 sfan5 formerly* :) 15:31 Krock the logo definitely has to stay 15:31 rubenwardy haha 15:31 MTDiscord would something like "engine born from the Minetest game" work? 15:31 rubenwardy Minetest would be our name whilst wearing suits 15:32 Desour (while I like the logo, it actually just depicts a typical mtg-like game. so I wouldn't wonder if we'll change it eventually in the far future) 15:34 sfan5 idea: remove the colors and turn it into outline only 15:35 sfan5 metaphor for how an engine enables you to build such a game 15:35 [MTMatrix] probably, but it's a bad approach to change name and logo at the same time, as you completely remove recognition, "brand awareness" (🤮) 15:36 [MTMatrix] *recognisability 15:38 MTDiscord yeah, a lot of Minecraft communities are using the sky island/skyblock logo but I do think it is pretty recognizable and clean I wonder if people recognize more the logo or the name though 15:42 [MTMatrix] TIL you can't remove categories from GH Discussions (or at least I can't) 15:42 [MTMatrix] https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/KrcLxvfgdcLvEhXssFcUnRMf 15:43 Krock oh yes indeed 15:44 Krock sfan5: whereas I understand the intention, I think it would result in a rather boring logo 15:47 Desour lmao it now looks like someone just left a pile of poo at the discussions 15:47 MTDiscord zughy: maybe its because you dont have enough permissions perhaps? 15:47 [MTMatrix] might be 15:48 MTDiscord https://docs.github.com/en/discussions/managing-discussions-for-your-community/managing-categories-for-discussions#deleting-a-category 15:51 sfan5 #14438 ready for review btw 15:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14438 -- [no sq] Server code cleanups / refactors by sfan5 15:53 Niklp Hi, #14355 broke the L-system tree generation partially, the commit before works perfectly fine. https://files.niklp.net/screenshot_20240317_165056.png (I'll open an issue later) 15:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14355 -- Add L-system trees as decorations by cx384 15:55 Krock hmm that's a lot of changed lines 15:55 Krock Niklp: looks like param1 is wrong 15:56 MTDiscord yeah, thats the issue, that the engine is messing with param1 in lsystems 15:56 Krock perhaps it's not set at all (in the vmanip) 15:56 sfan5 don't forget to add a minimal example when you open an issue 15:56 Krock please include reproduction steps so that I can have a look at it 15:57 Krock dammit those ninjas 15:58 [MTMatrix] I've created a poll but it doesn't allow multiple casting. Jeez... 15:58 [MTMatrix] I swear I hate GH 16:00 Desour maybe just link to an external voting thing 16:01 [MTMatrix] yep, looking for something 16:01 sfan5 you can keep the names inside GH and use numbers to refer to them 16:02 Desour or just keep the link secret 16:02 cx384 It is probably the fault of the NodeResolver, since this is the only thing which has change for not-mapgen lsystem trees. (Due to a suggestion from sfan5 I changed it at right before it got merged.) 16:02 [MTMatrix] I'd be great if people could react with numbers, but you can only react with a small set of emoji :\ 16:03 cx384 I looked through the proposed new names for minetest and even the most upvoted one "kutiko" seems to be quite bad. After a quick search I found those things: https://www.kutikoooo.de/kutikos-15/ https://nona.net/features/map/placedetail.2251699/Kutiko/ https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%8F%E3%81%A1%E3%81%93 (And only very few people who use minetest can speak Finnish.) 16:03 [MTMatrix] also reacting with emojis will impact your voting 16:03 [MTMatrix] because you'd see other people votes 16:03 cx384 (The japanese triangles are digestible sea cucumber.) 16:03 Desour also, "do you want to take the :tada: name, or the grumpy face name" 16:06 Desour btw. for the actual voting (as opposed to a survey), we need something more complicated than "the one with the most vote wins". we should imo rather take the name with least resistance. too bad there's no perfect way of voting 16:06 sfan5 could vote with +1, 0, -1 16:08 Desour you'd usually start with a ranking from everyone, and then hope people were honest 16:08 [MTMatrix] if we use an external service, we can't be sure people double voted or not 16:08 Desour if you just vote +1,0,-1, you'd just -1 popular options that you don't like 16:09 Krock write a webpage for vorting that requires GitHub oauth to ensure you're a member and cannot double-vote 8) 16:09 Krock s/vorting/voting/ 16:09 Desour won't work if the one running the webpage can't be trusted 16:10 [MTMatrix] imagine having a lot of employees and not being able to offer a poll with multiple answers 16:10 Desour if you know how many voted, and if everyone said they voted, it could work 16:10 Niklp Krock: issue created, see #14471 16:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14471 -- L-system tree nodes aren't always correctly rotated since #14355 16:11 sfan5 I'm sure we could shove GPG signing into the solution space 16:12 [MTMatrix] I might go with the 0/+1 approach 16:12 [MTMatrix] creating a comment for every name 16:12 Desour fwiw, I don't actually care if my vote is secret, btw. 16:12 Krock make two polls: one for +1 and the other for -1 16:12 Krock sum up and you've got the favourite 16:14 [MTMatrix] thank you https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/15841 16:15 Desour the forums' polls are better. minetest forums > gh 16:20 Krock shall I provide a fix for #14471 or is already someone on it? looks at sfan5 16:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14471 -- L-system tree nodes aren't always correctly rotated since #14355 16:21 sfan5 i don't plan to do more than that comment there 16:21 Krock okay. it's pretty easy so I'll go ahead 16:23 [MTMatrix] Discussion created, please cast your vote 16:26 MTDiscord Problem with the forum is sign-ups are broken again 16:26 MTDiscord At least the forums don't take forever to load now tho 16:33 Krock planning to push https://pastebin.com/raw/yeGHmA4Q in 15 minutes to fix the L-system tree issues - objections, feedback? 16:43 Desour Krock: you could use default member initializers instead 16:44 Krock Desour: will MapNode trunknode {CONTENT_IGNORE}; initialize the other valies? 16:44 Krock *members 16:45 Krock because with the other notation I am sure that it calls the default constructor 16:45 Krock or with arguments provided - the one that initializes param1 and 2 with 0 by default 16:47 Desour Krock: `MapNode trunknode;` already calls the default constructor (which leaves the values unititialized). `MapNode trunknode {CONTENT_IGNORE};` is equivalent to `MapNode trunknode = CONTENT_IGNORE;`, and copy-constructs with the default copy contructor 16:47 Desour oops, sry 16:48 Desour (it's content_ignore, not node_ignore) 16:48 Desour `MapNode trunknode {CONTENT_IGNORE};` should call the `MapNode(content_t content, u8 a_param1=0, u8 a_param2=0)` constructor 16:49 Krock does it matter performance-wise? 16:49 Desour idk how it would 16:49 Krock I mean I could decompile the binary but I don't feel like putting that much effort into it 16:50 Desour well, if you define the TreeDef constructor in the cpp file, it can't be inlined 16:59 Krock moved to header. I noticed that I had to actively provoke this issue on my side. The uninitialized value always resulted in upright trunks 17:38 Krock okay. will push https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14471#issuecomment-2002542700 in 15 minutes. It's the way I prefer it. 18:22 sfan5 it would be nice if someone could adopt #13512, it would allow deleting some annoying code from irrlicht 18:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13512 -- Replace Irrlicht file picker with new Lua dialog by rollerozxa 19:36 MTDiscord Pokes @Amanda with a stick 19:37 ROllerozxa o.o 21:09 pgimeno it would be nice if a poll about the name was randomized - I realize that my suggestion for a name was not that great, it was just close to the top