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| 08:54 |
sfan5 |
merging #13922, #13915 in 10m |
| 08:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13922 -- Deprecate .bmp format by sfan5 |
| 08:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13915 -- Set color of scrollbar/dropdown button symbols and checkmarks to white by erlehmann |
| 09:15 |
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| 09:30 |
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| 09:32 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Why #13818 is now 5.9? |
| 09:32 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13818 -- Debundle Minetest Game by rollerozxa |
| 09:32 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Have we waited for nothing? |
| 09:32 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> rubenwardy |
| 09:32 |
ROllerozxa |
wtf |
| 09:32 |
rubenwardy |
we're in feature freeze |
| 09:33 |
rubenwardy |
not my decision, haven't been following dev lately |
| 09:33 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Feels worth an exception |
| 09:33 |
erle |
hahaha |
| 09:33 |
erle |
everything feels worth an exception |
| 09:33 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> No |
| 09:33 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Just this |
| 09:34 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Everything else can eat dirt, but this should be merged sooner rather than later |
| 09:34 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> It was ready to go |
| 09:34 |
erle |
i still think this might need more research. minetest game from 5.4.1 crashes with newer minetest at load time *without any indicator that it is too old and that is the reason*, and newer minetest games might crash during runtime (i have not determined). |
| 09:34 |
rubenwardy |
to merge #13818, you also need to merge #13906 and #13807 |
| 09:34 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I 100% agree with greenxenith. That's the main UX problem MT has been carrying for years, I have to deal with that at conventions every time |
| 09:34 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13818 -- Debundle Minetest Game by rollerozxa |
| 09:34 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13906 -- Offer ContentDB updates for leftover bundled Minetest Game by grorp |
| 09:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13807 -- Add package update detection on Content tab by rubenwardy |
| 09:35 |
erle |
look the question is what feature freeze is for: is it to reduce bugs? then only nonfunctionals should be merged. is it to speed up delivery of other stuff? then it might be different. |
| 09:36 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> If you're playing a many years old version, that's also kind of your fault erle. Security issues have been fixed through the years |
| 09:36 |
erle |
saying users are at fault because they are does not make problems go away, i keep saying this. i'd at least handle crashes of minetest game specially (i.e. suggest they update) |
| 09:36 |
rubenwardy |
feature freeze is to reduce bugs. If we merged the above we'd need to restart the freeze |
| 09:37 |
erle |
and i think you can see from the white-interface-elements thing that something can *not* be easy (given that i failed 2 times at inverting the checkmarks correctly and did not consider them at all in the first place until prompted) |
| 09:37 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> If it was a 5.8 milestone why was the freeze even started |
| 09:38 |
erle |
basically everything is fizzbuzz |
| 09:38 |
sfan5 |
we can also extend the feature freeze |
| 09:38 |
erle |
(”we did not do it because it was easy, we did it because we thought it was easy when we started implementing”) |
| 09:38 |
sfan5 |
or wait extra long for users to test an RC build |
| 09:38 |
erle |
let's see if i can make a BMP slip by #13922 hehe |
| 09:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13922 -- Deprecate .bmp format by sfan5 |
| 09:39 |
sfan5 |
or aim to release 5.9.0 quickly after 5.8.0 |
| 09:39 |
erle |
yeah |
| 09:39 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> I am unclear on what exactly was remaining on the pr, I must have missed the prereqs on the thread |
| 09:39 |
rubenwardy |
if we don't have this in 5.8, I'd like 5.9 for december |
| 09:40 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> The last comments on the thread lead me to believe there was nothing blocking the pr |
| 09:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> rubenwardy: which it's unlikely to happen, as data reveals that we are at least one-two months late for every release |
| 09:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> *is |
| 09:41 |
rubenwardy |
true :D |
| 09:41 |
sfan5 |
we could also take the risk and release 5.8 as usual with the changes and perhaps be forced to quickly put out 5.8.1 |
| 09:41 |
rubenwardy |
I can update #13807 tonight |
| 09:41 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13807 -- Add package update detection on Content tab by rubenwardy |
| 09:41 |
erle |
a more-often release schedule would be nicer anyway. |
| 09:42 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Aha, I see the last comment was about the other pr being a suitable solution, my bad |
| 09:42 |
erle |
btw, is there any chance to revert the keycode/scancode thing? i think there are at least 4 bugs that basically are different variants of “we detect which key is pressed now instead of which character is” |
| 09:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> erle: I guess that'd be more stressful for devs |
| 09:42 |
erle |
maybe 5 |
| 09:43 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Depending on how trivial those 3 prs are though, I still believe it may be worth extending the freeze so you get the major feature everyone is waiting on sooner rather than later without having to worry about rushing a tiny release later |
| 09:43 |
erle |
like, i can't input a +, some people can't input a / etc. pp. |
| 09:43 |
rubenwardy |
yeah I agree greenxenith |
| 09:43 |
erle |
it's basically a really weird regression because the thing was half-baked |
| 09:43 |
erle |
(and if you can still input your key bindings depends on your layout basically) |
| 09:44 |
erle |
(whereas it did work perfectly before) |
| 09:44 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Also, the lesser the UX problems, the more the feedback from non tech-savvy users who won't run away puzzled by MT/MTG duality |
| 09:44 |
erle |
and i don't think that the fix for “+ and keypad + are considered the same key” warrants that level of breakage |
| 09:45 |
erle |
ig what i am asking is basically, can the feature freeze be used to revert regressions if that simply gets it to an earlier state? |
| 09:46 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Wouldn't regressions be considered freeze-blocking bugs? |
| 09:46 |
erle |
related: should some of the different “i can no longer input this character or key combination” issues be merged? |
| 09:46 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> (I don't know, asking) |
| 09:47 |
rubenwardy |
yes, regressions usually would be |
| 09:47 |
rubenwardy |
#13890 is in the milestone |
| 09:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13890 -- Restore the +/- numpad default behaviour (increase/decrease viewing range) |
| 09:51 |
erle |
rubenwardy btw i think i figured out what causes the rendering corruption and why it can not be replicated. basically, at some point graphics cards reach the maximum level of instructions and they just start flushing out earlier things and everything gets corrupted. this does not ever seem to happen with mesa software rendering (that one just becomes very slow in that case), but it can, in principle, happen with every graphics |
| 09:51 |
erle |
card. according to what i found, modern mobile GPUs will probably crap out even earlier than my old intel GPU because of the way they handle rendering. |
| 09:51 |
erle |
you can use ”glxinfo -l” on gnu/linux to find the limits of your hardware basically |
| 09:52 |
rubenwardy |
So, are we decided to merge those 3 PRs in the next few days, and extend the freeze? |
| 09:52 |
erle |
so what my stubs mod does is present a worst case for item rendering (nodeboxes are pretty bad in general) |
| 09:53 |
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| 09:54 |
sfan5 |
I vote for yes |
| 09:54 |
sfan5 |
merging #13930 too in 5-10min |
| 09:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13930 -- Prevent Windows Defender warnings in singleplayer (Bind singleplayer server to 127.0.0.1) by rollerozxa |
| 09:55 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> 2 core dev approval, that means it's a go, right? :)) |
| 09:55 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> (/s) |
| 10:04 |
erle |
has this even be unit tested |
| 10:04 |
erle |
i mean integration tested |
| 10:05 |
rubenwardy |
how do you plan on integration testing something that shows native windows os ui |
| 10:06 |
rubenwardy |
rhetorical question |
| 10:07 |
erle |
i think it will affect all other systems as well? i'll think about it though. |
| 10:07 |
erle |
ig running a test server is not part of the pipeline |
| 10:07 |
erle |
or is it? |
| 10:08 |
rubenwardy |
the pipeline starts up a devtest world iirc |
| 10:08 |
erle |
so we can be sure it works on linux at least ig |
| 10:08 |
erle |
that's the integration test then |
| 10:09 |
erle |
just for my understanding: binding to 127.0.0.1 will work on ipv6-only machines, but binding to ::1 would fail on ipv4-only machines? |
| 10:12 |
ROllerozxa |
if binding to 127.0.0.1 wouldn't work, then singleplayer wouldn't have worked previously as it connects to 127.0.0.1 (see the comment on the PR from sfan) |
| 10:13 |
erle |
ROllerozxa i see. thanks! |
| 10:14 |
erle |
i should read more in the future ig |
| 11:25 |
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| 11:52 |
erle |
fine, i made two test cases for BMP deprecation detection myself: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/13934 |
| 12:16 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> So can we revert MTG debundling to 5.8? |
| 12:46 |
rubenwardy |
already done |
| 14:29 |
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| 14:33 |
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| 15:14 |
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| 15:25 |
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| 15:47 |
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| 15:59 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/ci planning to push this if CI passes |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:01 |
nrz_ |
nice 🙂 |
| 16:21 |
sfan5 |
we should probably prioritize #13913 so we can do a second string update before release |
| 16:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13913 -- Fix issues in Minetest's English texts by srifqi |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
the macOS ci apparently needs 40 minutes to install dependencies |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
ah okay that's apparently due to macOS 11 |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
which is EOL |
| 16:33 |
Desour |
merging #13919 in 10 |
| 16:34 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13919 -- [NOSQUASH] Inventory: Release resizes-locked lists on all `on_`-callbacks, and fix `Inventory *` UaF by Desour |
| 16:45 |
sfan5 |
got it down to 1 minute \o/ |
| 16:48 |
Desour |
did you use the powers of time, aka just wait? |
| 17:51 |
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| 20:27 |
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| 20:34 |
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| 20:41 |
erle |
v-rob what do you think about possibly changing back to characters? i think it would fix several regressions. i think at least desour for example mentioned having bound chat to /, which obviously also can no longer be input if “/” is not a key on the keyboard. |
| 20:42 |
erle |
(for me it is iso level 3 shift + i, but for users of QWERTZ it is shift + 7) |
| 20:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I see in breakage list, you now migrate from nicknames to UUID, i have question, it can break nick based mods? |
| 20:48 |
v-rob |
If we used characters, it wouldn't work in the SDL2 backend: it doesn't associate characters with keys (since that's taken care of by IME text events), but only gives raw keycodes and scancodes for keyboard events. |
| 20:49 |
v-rob |
Given that we're already using keycodes, manual translation from keycode to character via a hash map wouldn't be an improvement |
| 20:50 |
erle |
so basically minetest is in some intermediate state right now where SDL2 stuff does not fully work, but also the (previously implicit) ability to input keyboard combinations was lost |
| 20:50 |
erle |
make no mistake, i like the SDL2 stuff |
| 20:50 |
erle |
ctrl + shift + u and then inputting unicode is great |
| 20:51 |
erle |
i just wonder how to handle key combinations ever again (e.g. for keyboards without a + key) |
| 20:51 |
erle |
any idea? |
| 20:52 |
erle |
or is the end game to do it like i3? i.e. define an initial mapping based on the key position, so it is physically the same everywhere? |
| 20:52 |
erle |
(but then display what is on the key according to the layout obv) |
| 20:53 |
v-rob |
Does the + keycode work in other programs? Like Ctrl + and Ctrl - for zooming in Firefox/<your favorite app with zooming here>. |
| 20:54 |
v-rob |
I mean, at some point, it just might be a "we can't do anything about this; it's a bug for SDL to handle" |
| 20:56 |
v-rob |
(You'd think that, by now, people would have figured out how to make keyboards standard and easy to use for developers, but nooo) |
| 20:59 |
erle |
v-rob yes, pressing ctrl + isolevel3shift + b (i.e. ctrl + “+”) works in firefox and basically any other program. |
| 21:00 |
erle |
v-rob what i *think* is that you can't actually bind something to modifier keys in those programs. in minetest you can bind to isolevel3shift now and that makes it impossible in principle to have it as a modifier key. |
| 21:01 |
erle |
so what might work would exclude modifier keys (probably except shift) from having stuff bound to them |
| 21:01 |
erle |
not sure if that is feasible |
| 21:01 |
erle |
or even desirable |
| 21:02 |
v-rob |
Still, SDL wouldn't generate the proper keycode, so it wouldn't solve anything. |
| 21:02 |
erle |
v-rob if you can point me to some other SDL programs that have configurable keybindings i could try to see if it works for me with those and maybe we can steal this thing |
| 21:02 |
v-rob |
Maybe Firefox does use characters internally? |
| 21:03 |
erle |
yeah but look my terminal also zooms when i do ctrl + “that key combination that generates a plus character” |
| 21:04 |
v-rob |
Gosh, I hate keyboards. |
| 21:04 |
erle |
i think i'll just look at other games that have sdl input and handle it better than minetest |
| 21:04 |
erle |
and then snitch on it to you ok? |
| 21:04 |
v-rob |
sounds good |
| 21:05 |
v-rob |
Incidentally, thanks for testing this stuff; it's good to know about these edge cases |
| 21:06 |
erle |
well, it's not really an edge case for keyboards. for people in other countries it's just a case. i mean not for me, the neo2 layout is not german default. but there are a lot of non-QWERTY layouts. |
| 21:07 |
erle |
when i was a child i used QWERTZ (german standard layout) and there was a lot of software that was just not handling correctly that Y and Z are exchanged compared to QWERTY |
| 21:09 |
v-rob |
Edge cases from the perspective of " |
| 21:09 |
v-rob |
every library that exposes keybindings for QWERTY keyboards |
| 21:09 |
v-rob |
Which appears to be basically all of them |
| 21:11 |
erle |
v-rob so i just tested prboom-plus which is SDL apparently and i found that for some keys that minetest misdetects, it just prints “junk” in the keybinding dialog. also i could not bind a + there. |
| 21:11 |
v-rob |
There would be some marked benefits if everyone used the same language for everything. It's most unfortunate that programmers pretend that this is the case when it isn't. |
| 21:11 |
erle |
i guess a lot of keys mapping to “linke taste” might just be the ”junk” response from SDL be misinterpreted? |
| 21:12 |
erle |
(”linke taste” is german for “left button” or “left key”, depending on if you talk about a mouse or a keyboard) |
| 21:28 |
erle |
v-rob so apparently SDL1.2 had a “unicode character” thing additionally to scancode/keycode |
| 21:29 |
erle |
v-rob i am trying to figure out where it went |
| 21:29 |
v-rob |
Removed in favor of IME input |
| 22:34 |
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