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| 00:16 |
andreeeeew_its_m |
you certainly care about the reason for this ban to justify such an action, you listened to only one version of the story (the one given by the Minetest team) and this needs to be called out. Moreover, it is written nowhere in your policies that a channel's ban evasion is against your policies, otherwise lots of people could be k-lined on the sole |
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| 09:59 |
rubenwardy |
What's our compatibility policy on settings? Can formspec_default_by_color be removed? It's pretty pointless given that most formspecs in-game theme their backgrounds |
| 10:00 |
Guest54 |
what's the advantage of removing it? simply less code or is there a security or performance issue? |
| 10:01 |
rubenwardy |
less code and improved UX |
| 10:01 |
rubenwardy |
alternatively, I can just hide it from the new settings menu |
| 10:02 |
Guest54 |
you mean the advanced one? |
| 10:03 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12480 |
| 10:06 |
Guest54 |
ah that one |
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| 14:35 |
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| 14:41 |
Desour |
rubenwardy: I don't think we have a policy for removing existing settings. we don't try to keep backwards compat for them afaik, and some client visual settings (e.g. bumpmapping) have already been removed without replacement |
| 14:42 |
Desour |
as for formspec_default_bg_color: I doubt many people use this. the only use-case I could think of is higher transparency to label[]s |
| 14:42 |
Desour |
but I'd put the setting removal in a separate PR or commit |
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| 16:13 |
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| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
imo we should also merge #12764 soon so it can be tested over the whole dev duration |
| 16:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12764 -- Sound refactor and improvements by Desour |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
that's high on my list |
| 16:59 |
Desour |
đź‘€ |
| 17:00 |
Desour |
you could merge #13415 first to make 12764 simpler |
| 17:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13415 -- [NOSQUASH] Smart ptr stuff from sound refactor PR, and add make_irr by Desour |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:35 |
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| 17:36 |
appguru |
Would anyone be opposed to me creating & maintaining a repo for semgrep rules (such as https://gist.github.com/appgurueu/21132254211f32fb210c429cf56c4b2b)? celeron55 |
| 17:36 |
rubenwardy |
does this need to be an official project? |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
What would be the downsides to it being unofficial? |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
official* |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
Making it official would increase discoverability, at the risk of slightly cluttering the Minetest org |
| 17:38 |
Guest54 |
i think semgrep rules for minetest should have the widest possible visiblity and endorsement. i already privately asked rubenwardy to add semgrep scanning to cdb since i found a lot of crashes with it a few days ago, but rubenwardy did not want more bloat. |
| 17:38 |
appguru |
But I don't see why this shouldn't be centralized under the Minetest org |
| 17:39 |
Guest54 |
the question is: is there any danger |
| 17:39 |
Guest54 |
i mean, given the existing approach to code quality and understanding of boundaries and security issues differs extremely between contributors |
| 17:40 |
Guest54 |
like would it lead to minetest as an org rejecting rules if coredevs believe it is “too far out” or so? |
| 17:40 |
Guest54 |
or similarly, is there a danger of endorsing useless rules? |
| 17:40 |
Guest54 |
appguru you can always start making it yourself and if it is any good donate it to the org |
| 17:41 |
appguru |
we wouldn't want to many false positives and I already anticipate bikeshedding about rules, lol |
| 17:41 |
appguru |
too many* |
| 17:41 |
rubenwardy |
the risk is that it becomes our responsibility or another dead repo |
| 17:41 |
appguru |
fair |
| 17:41 |
Krock |
what's special about "irr_ptr", Desour ? |
| 17:41 |
rubenwardy |
Irrlicht points use ->grab() and ->drop, irr_ptr does this automatically based on RAII |
| 17:42 |
Krock |
shared_ptr would do that too |
| 17:42 |
rubenwardy |
appguru: it's not a big deal though, I'd start it and then see how useful it could be |
| 17:43 |
Krock |
ah I see. it's mainly for Irrlicht integration |
| 17:43 |
Desour |
lua51 vs luajit compat isn't minetest-specific. it's also not complete (i.e. missing ULL number prefixes and similar). and I kinda doubt we want to maintain it |
| 17:43 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, you can use a custom deleter/allocator iirc - but it's simpler to have a new irr_ptr type. Also, this already exists |
| 17:43 |
rubenwardy |
irr_ptr already exists, this just adds a util for it |
| 17:43 |
Guest54 |
Desour a rule does not need to be complete. it is supposed to find issues, not prove code correct. |
| 17:44 |
Guest54 |
Desour semgrep rules work best for stuff where you have few false positives and next to no false negatives. |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
it'd definitely be good to get the irr_ptr changes out of the PR |
| 17:44 |
Desour |
Krock: shared_ptr allocates an (atomic) refcounter. IReferenceCounted classes have a (non-atomic) counter as member (via inheritance). irr_ptr counts this one |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
because it'll be squashed |
| 17:44 |
Guest54 |
for example, you can easily write a semgrep rule to find a double free in C. |
| 17:44 |
appguru |
Desour: I don't think it's possible to write semgrep rules at a sub-token level |
| 17:45 |
appguru |
But yes, Lua 5.1 vs LuaJIT compat isn't Minetest-specific |
| 17:45 |
Krock |
at least for #13415 I don't see any issue with the changes, although the sound PR is still pretty large afterwards |
| 17:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13415 -- [NOSQUASH] Smart ptr stuff from sound refactor PR, and add make_irr by Desour |
| 17:45 |
appguru |
I believe that we'd get more rules for Minetest- than for Lua-specific things in the long run though |
| 17:45 |
appguru |
E.g. each deprecation should have a semgrep rule added (if applicable) |
| 17:47 |
Guest54 |
you could also add an autofix if you are enterprising |
| 17:47 |
Guest54 |
i mean, if it is easy to fix |
| 17:48 |
Guest54 |
appguru here, take this gem: but please credit me as the author if you commit it anywhere https://mister-muffin.de/p/dNmO.txt |
| 17:49 |
Guest54 |
i found so many crashes using it |
| 17:50 |
rubenwardy |
could try writing rules for https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/quality/common_mistakes.html |
| 17:50 |
Guest54 |
i mean, technically i stopped verifying the crashes after the first few, since it is clear what happens without the nil check |
| 17:50 |
appguru |
hmm |
| 17:51 |
appguru |
rubenwardy: missing word: "you should make [sure] you check it before use" |
| 17:51 |
Guest54 |
rubenwardy oh no i think i may have done an itemstack doo doo in my “harvest and replace” mod |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
appguru: damn, common mistake :'( |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:52 |
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| 17:52 |
appguru |
hah |
| 17:52 |
Guest54 |
ok so since semgrep is the topic at hand: https://semgrep.dev/docs/writing-rules/overview/ https://semgrep.dev/docs/writing-rules/pattern-syntax/ |
| 17:53 |
rubenwardy |
another one is when mods assume a puncher/placer/etc is a player |
| 17:53 |
Guest54 |
also i suggest you all refrain from throwing all semgrep C/C++ rules at minetest engine, i already did that and it's too much fluff. better keep to domain-specific rules after you find a bug to fix that entire class of bugs. |
| 17:53 |
rubenwardy |
anyway, I suggest making a repo, working on it until it's mvp, then maybe it can be transferred in |
| 17:53 |
appguru |
Hmm. I think "Don’t Trust Formspec Submissions" can't really be implemented using semgrep. "Set ItemStacks After Changing Them" is probably possible. "Be Careful When Storing ObjectRefs" might also be possible, albeit limited. |
| 17:53 |
appguru |
rubenwardy: sounds reasonable |
| 17:54 |
Guest54 |
appguru you can have different confidence levels for results though |
| 17:54 |
appguru |
yeah |
| 17:55 |
rubenwardy |
there's also using chat_send_player in a chat command instead of return, and also assuming the player is online |
| 17:55 |
Guest54 |
and i don't think it is unreasonable to check for stuff like minetest.set_player_privs() that it is inside a code block that checks for some privs if the privs are elevated |
| 17:56 |
Guest54 |
rubenwardy there is so much comedy gold to be earned using a small investment of only a few semgrep rules |
| 17:56 |
Guest54 |
imagine all the random crashes it might find |
| 17:59 |
Guest54 |
rubenwardy so appguru claims to have had a DL script to download cdb and last time it killed the API. are you *sure* you want people to use the API instead of providing a tarball of all mods or so? |
| 17:59 |
appguru |
(last time was 2021 tbf tho) |
| 17:59 |
Guest54 |
yeah but was it a bug that got fixed |
| 17:59 |
Desour |
merging #13415 in 5 |
| 17:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13415 -- [NOSQUASH] Smart ptr stuff from sound refactor PR, and add make_irr by Desour |
| 18:01 |
rubenwardy |
that's because it went via the PYthon, I've fixed it so downloads are served directly by nginx |
| 18:01 |
Guest54 |
well, then |
| 18:01 |
rubenwardy |
I suggest only downloading the latest release for each mod |
| 18:01 |
Guest54 |
appguru, release the kraken! |
| 18:02 |
rubenwardy |
then you can tail /api/releases/ for new releases |
| 18:02 |
Guest54 |
well, i am not interested in crashes in older releases anyway |
| 18:02 |
Guest54 |
but it would be a good test case to figure out if the semgrep rules are any good |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> why are downloads served by contentdb? |
| 18:02 |
Guest54 |
hysterical raisins |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> why doesn't it just store git links? |
| 18:02 |
rubenwardy |
Fleckenstein: security, the client doesn't have git support and the download needs to be immutable |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
not all git hosts support direct download links |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> sha sums exist |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
if they did, you could use a checksum to pin the version |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
but they don't |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
also, you don't need to use git |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
and some packages have a build/compilation step meaning you can't use the raw git repo |
| 18:03 |
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| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> contentdb supports that? |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
https://content.minetest.net/help/api/ |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> ah so it's not like it offers cloud builds tho |
| 18:05 |
Desour |
a cool thing one could do is preprocess / build your mod in some way and upload the build artifact to cdb. this could also be done by a CI runner |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
yeah. RPG16 and nodecore do that |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
also that fennel game |
| 18:06 |
appguru |
hmm so I think I found my scripts |
| 18:06 |
appguru |
one scans CDB for dependency cycles, one counts licenses and the third counts file extensions after unpacking to a ramdisk |
| 18:06 |
appguru |
can't seem to find the one that did the downloading lol |
| 18:07 |
Guest54 |
in before wget --mirror |
| 18:07 |
Guest54 |
maybe one of the first steps would be to put the scripts in a git repo |
| 18:08 |
appguru |
my filesystem is a mess |
| 18:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> can recommend dust / ncdu |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:17 |
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| 18:17 |
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| 18:19 |
rubenwardy |
How do you build with SDL now? |
| 18:20 |
rubenwardy |
I've tried editing the option in Irrlicht's cmake and doing cmake . -DUSE_SDL2=1, but I'm still getting _IRR_COMPILE_WITH_SDL_DEVICE_ undefined |
| 18:20 |
rubenwardy |
building with irrlicht at libs/irrlichtmt |
| 18:20 |
rubenwardy |
*lib |
| 18:21 |
Desour |
iirc _IRR_COMPILE_WITH_SDL_DEVICE_ is no longer used |
| 18:21 |
Desour |
are you sure you're using irrlichtmt master? |
| 18:22 |
sfan5 |
cmake also outputs whether it's building with sdl2 or not |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
I'll delete caches etc |
| 18:23 |
nrz |
if SDL2 is sufficient stable, do you think we can consider a full switch and drop legacy backend ? (i don't know if it works well on android) |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
that's our plan |
| 18:23 |
nrz |
perfect |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
_IRR_COMPILE_WITH_SDL_DEVICE_ is from my patch in minetest/minetest that's checking whether SDL is enabled. I still see it used in lib/irrlichtmt though, in CIrrDeviceSDL.cpp for example |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
I'm on "Use a buffer for quads indices" |
| 18:26 |
sfan5 |
it's still used but you can't check the flag from outside |
| 18:45 |
rubenwardy |
merging #13419 in 9.345 ± 10 minutes |
| 18:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13419 -- Remove formspec_default_bg_color/opacity settings by rubenwardy |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
> In practice, most games do theme their GUIs. |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
rubenwardy did you actually check that using semgrep or something? |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
i mean, i don't think you'd pull that out of thin air, i just wonder if it is the same as earlier “this is not used” assertions, i.e. “this is not used in stuff i know” |
| 18:53 |
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| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
well, most games are MTG soups and MTG has a custom background and bgcolor |
| 18:58 |
Guest54 |
in this case, i both retract my statement about pulling factoids out of thin air and assert the opposite and ask how such a rule could look like? |
| 18:58 |
Guest54 |
after all, it is a code smell now to have none of that |
| 18:59 |
rubenwardy |
not sure if you misread, this removes a setting it doesn't remove the default background |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
uh, i think it implies that not setting a background is a problem, am i misunderstanding it? |
| 19:00 |
Guest54 |
(i probably am) |
| 19:16 |
rubenwardy |
was #12780 forgotten about? |
| 19:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12780 -- Put server sound handles into userdata by Desour |
| 19:18 |
Desour |
no |
| 19:18 |
Desour |
it's separate |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
looks like it has changes from the mega PR though |
| 19:19 |
Desour |
it basically does the client and main menu sound handle stuff for server sound handles |
| 19:19 |
Desour |
the code is similar |
| 19:19 |
Desour |
but duplicated |
| 19:22 |
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| 20:22 |
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| 20:43 |
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| 20:44 |
boldcoder55[m] |
oopsie, k-line broken |
| 20:45 |
boldcoder55[m] |
ping moonmoon |
| 20:54 |
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| 21:06 |
boldcoder55[m] |
moonmoon has turned to eclipse tonight? :( |
| 21:09 |
boldcoder55[m] |
looking forward for the next k-line and how to get around it, I love challenges |
| 21:12 |
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| 21:25 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> don't you have better things to do |
| 21:28 |
Guest54 |
ROllerozxa i honestly think that a specific breed of bullies does not have something better to do in their own mind. i know only very few people who regularly evade bans (and I wish i would not know them) and with all of them i got the feeling that getting the attention after evading a ban gives them a sense of pride and accomplishment. |
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