| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 02:21 |
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| 03:41 |
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| 05:10 |
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| 08:34 |
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| 09:04 |
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| 09:23 |
sfan5 |
merging #12505 in 10m |
| 09:23 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12505 -- More corrections to lua_api.txt by sfan5 |
| 09:40 |
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| 09:44 |
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| 09:55 |
sfan5 |
I guess we'll declare feature freeze to start this evening? |
| 09:56 |
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| 10:51 |
nrz_ |
nice to hear ? |
| 11:01 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:03 |
sfan5 |
we should really go through One approval PRs and decide whether we want them or not |
| 11:03 |
sfan5 |
e.g. #12354 |
| 11:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12354 -- Enable the gamebar on Android by rollerozxa |
| 11:26 |
erle |
sfan5 in #12505, why was “-- Selected item in inventory. 0 for no item selected.” removed? is the information already included elsewhere? |
| 11:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12505 -- More corrections to lua_api.txt by sfan5 |
| 11:44 |
sfan5 |
there's a different section for that yes |
| 11:48 |
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| 11:55 |
sfan5 |
now if someone reviewed the same PRs I did in the last hours we could merge about five at once ;) |
| 12:19 |
Krock |
I updated the changelog an hour ago. not final but will save some time in two weeks |
| 12:25 |
Krock |
> For the y- direction, it's rotated 180 degrees around the Z axis. |
| 12:25 |
Krock |
#11934 why would that matter? |
| 12:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11934 -- Briefly explain how facedir rotations work by aerkiaga |
| 12:30 |
Krock |
Y- can also be achieved by 0b001110 (X+) or 0b010010 (X-) but with the difference of the side rotations |
| 12:50 |
|
Baytuch joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:06 |
sfan5 |
won't that mean the texture is flipped verticall? |
| 13:07 |
sfan5 |
+y |
| 13:07 |
sfan5 |
I admit I didn't double check it in-game |
| 13:18 |
erle |
luatic sfan5. i erroneously assumed that using zstd was about space savings. it is not – it is about having fast decompression time that is largely independent of the compression level. additionally, while it never decisively beats zlib on file size with default settings, it compresses about 2 to 3 times faster for the same filesize (once your payload gets over a few megabytes it seems) and never decompresses slower than zlib. |
| 13:28 |
erle |
unlike zlib though, better compression takes a *very* long time, the highest “normal” compression level of zstd (19) takes about 20 to 25 times as long as the default level, while only getting space savings on the order of 10 ± 3 %. |
| 13:31 |
Krock |
sfan5: yes, one would be flipped. it depends on what you want. I figured that the easiest explanation might be that param2=0 equals to a Y+ surface that points into Y+ and is then rotation according to those rules |
| 13:31 |
Krock |
s/rotation/rotated/ |
| 13:31 |
erle |
i correct myself: in any case where zstd compresses better (i was able to observe this from payloads of >4MB), zlib absolutely is able to take over 100 times as much for marginal compression gains. |
| 13:32 |
Krock |
also didn't someone write a tool to manually specify param2 values? I think that would help |
| 13:32 |
sfan5 |
in devtest maybe |
| 13:32 |
erle |
Krock i believe you can change it in devtest |
| 13:32 |
erle |
using the devtest thingy |
| 13:32 |
erle |
there is a tool for it |
| 13:32 |
erle |
could be that wuzzy made it (?) |
| 13:33 |
erle |
anyway, regarding zstd i think the API documentation should clearly point out that you are not getting better compression, you are getting faster compression/decompression. |
| 13:33 |
erle |
sfan5 i must concede that you were absolutely right about not fiddling with default values. it is very easy to make zstd take very long. this should also have an API warning IMO. |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
Merging #12541 #12354 #12392 #12460 in 10 |
| 13:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12541 -- Deprecate loading a world with unresolved dependencies by rubenwardy |
| 13:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12354 -- Enable the gamebar on Android by rollerozxa |
| 13:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12392 -- Fix automatic rotate for attached entities by appgurueu |
| 13:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12460 -- Remove workaround for normals not matching winding order by x2048 |
| 13:38 |
Krock |
erle: didn't find any. do you remember the name by any chance? |
| 13:39 |
sfan5 |
games/devtest/mods/testtools/init.lua |
| 13:39 |
sfan5 |
6:minetest.register_tool("testtools:param2tool", { |
| 13:41 |
Krock |
oh thank you |
| 13:42 |
sfan5 |
semi-related: I can recommend everyone who is still using grep on the command line to try ripgrep, it's great |
| 13:42 |
erle |
to illustrate the scale of the zstd issues: compressing 94kb of HTML i had laying around with zlib with highest compression setting (9) takes 0.01s on my machine. the default zstd compression level (3) compresses faster, but produces bigger output. the first zstd compression level that beats zlib (5) takes about the same time as zlib – 0.01s and uses about the same amount of memory. |
| 13:45 |
erle |
but zstd level 19 takes about 27 times as long (0.27s) and uses 13 times the amount of memory. zstd level 21 takes over 100 times as long and uses over 125 times the amount of memory as the defaullt that just barely loses out against zlib. |
| 13:47 |
erle |
sfan5, what feature about ripgrep do you like the most? |
| 13:49 |
erle |
anyways, does anyone else think that maybe, just maybe the zstd APi addition is not worth it, *unless* people regularly compress data in excess of several megabytes. luatic what do you think? |
| 13:50 |
erle |
(zstd authors obviously do not care about “small” payloads, excepd in the case of giving a dictionary for compression, which the proposed API addition is not going to do) |
| 13:52 |
erle |
it also strongly suggests that zstd is basically *never* worth it for compression of bitmaps (i.e. maps, mapblocks) or item meta, as these payloads are simply almost always *way* too small to beat zlib at reasonable compression speeds. |
| 13:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Imagine trying to block a feature for absolutely everyone else in the community because you don't like it. |
| 13:52 |
erle |
basicalyl, if your data is measured in kilobytes, use zlib. if it is measured in megabytes, use zstd. unless you can use a dictionary, then zstd is better. |
| 13:53 |
erle |
Jonathon, the problem is half-assing it. if the API gave the option to give a zstd dictionary, then it would be good for small payloads. |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> No, as usual your trying to block features because they don't fit your view point |
| 13:54 |
erle |
i said “add a warning” |
| 13:55 |
erle |
because its obviously a huge footgun |
| 13:55 |
rubenwardy |
way too much noise here |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
I agree |
| 13:55 |
erle |
rubenwardy, should i have posted this to the issue or the PR instead? |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
please paste your dissertation on zstd in #minetest |
| 14:02 |
erle |
i am done with spamming about the topic anyway. i assumed it was more like the webp thing (where no one benchmarked it and it turned out that you don't get meaningful gains over jpeg), but it seems it is more like minetest.encode_png() (where the API is half-assed, but obv most ppl think it is better than not doing it, as it is useful and can be improved later) |
| 14:16 |
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cranezhou joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:22 |
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cranezhou joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:29 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:29 |
kilbith |
x2048 sent me this: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/979725367071883274/998234052429631498/Screenshot_from_2022-07-17_16-25-02.png?width=1117&height=628 |
| 14:30 |
kilbith |
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/979725367071883274/998226603106631804/Screenshot_from_2022-07-17_15-55-54.png?width=1117&height=628 |
| 14:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> I assume that's there work on top of the post processing pr |
| 14:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *? |
| 14:31 |
kilbith |
yep |
| 14:31 |
rubenwardy |
volumetric lighting |
| 14:32 |
kilbith |
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/834178262133112893/998206422846287953/unknown.png?width=1117&height=628 |
| 14:33 |
kilbith |
5.7 will be extremely promising I tell you |
| 14:35 |
ROllerozxa |
indeed |
| 15:07 |
kilbith |
MT will take over MC in 10 years the same way that OpenTTD massively took over TTD |
| 15:07 |
kilbith |
we are adding critical threatening weapons and MC is self-burying |
| 15:17 |
erle |
well, TTD also was not a moving goal and people wanted to clone it |
| 15:17 |
erle |
also, i think i am not alone saying that minetest is already better for some highly relevant purposes (but this is a boring topic and belongs to #minetest anyway) |
| 15:18 |
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hlqkj joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:19 |
erle |
kilbith where can i get the branch with volumetric lighting? given the performance of shadows, i'd like to check out if there is any machine i own where it runs nicely. |
| 15:19 |
kilbith |
https://github.com/x2048/minetest/tree/volumetric_light |
| 15:20 |
kilbith |
a 10+ yo laptop will probably not run it tho |
| 15:21 |
kilbith |
anyone is able to spend 250-500€ to spend on a new laptop anyway |
| 15:21 |
kilbith |
-to spend |
| 15:23 |
kilbith |
I mean sometimes we have to give up on supporting GL 2.1 |
| 16:03 |
MisterE[m] |
<kilbith> "5.7 will be extremely promising..." <- cant wait for 5.7 XD |
| 16:04 |
MisterE[m] |
I wonder... will there be server-sent shaders, or will there be a large library of preloaded shaders that the server can choose from. |
| 16:16 |
rubenwardy |
maybe in the future there will be server-sent shaders |
| 16:16 |
rubenwardy |
but it'll be the same as shadows now - it's a cient side option that the server can override/disable/enable |
| 16:23 |
MisterE[m] |
maybe there should be a simple format and accellerated PR review process for adding new shaders to the client, so that anyone who wants a new kind of shader for their specific game can get it merged fairly easily and quickly. |
| 16:28 |
MisterE[m] |
I built the volumetric lighting branch, got the following error: |
| 16:28 |
* MisterE[m] |
uploaded an image: (21KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jVPCtMDmMnGzPEMxoMzinhwI/image.png > |
| 16:34 |
MisterE[m] |
This post processing stuff wouldn't allow in-world colored volumetric lights and shadows would it? |
| 16:38 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Colored lighting is something that needs to be implemented on the server side as well, so no |
| 16:58 |
Noisytoot |
kilbith: Not everyone can spend 250-500€ on a new laptop and I don't know of any x86 laptops with fully free boot firmware that support anything newer than OpenGL 2.1. |
| 16:59 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> @GreenXenith You can place the color into node metadata, and the client can read it. For example. |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
A big audience for minetest is schools as well, who tend to have underpowered devices |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
features like these need to be progressive enhancements |
| 17:00 |
kilbith |
everyone is able to work one week in the summer to pay a new laptop with the money range I mentionned |
| 17:01 |
sfan5 |
I don't know what the point of this discussion is, shadows aren't mandatory |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, please cease this |
| 17:02 |
sfan5 |
on that note we will definitely drop shader-less (OpenGL < 2.0) support sooner or later |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
there is a difference between underpowered and ancient |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
2.0 is also 2004 |
| 17:03 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> MisterE[m]: try to enable tonemapping in the settings, it might be caused by that. |
| 17:04 |
ROllerozxa |
yeah that error log is caused when tonemapping is disabled, works when it's enabled |
| 17:04 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> @x2048 that is far from a good way to implement colored light |
| 17:05 |
sfan5 |
PSA: core dev meeting in 2 hours |
| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> It works now and is utterly amazing |
| 17:07 |
sfan5 |
@x2048 since you're here: have you ever looked at the other vertex types in irrlicht? will we ever need anything other than S3DVertex? |
| 17:22 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> sfan5: We will need 2TCoords for normal/bump mapping, but I don't see much use for tangents, since are moving towardd per-pixel lighting. |
| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Or maybe even won't need 2TCoords if all normal maps are aligned with textures |
| 17:23 |
sfan5 |
I see, thanks for that information |
| 17:50 |
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| 19:02 |
rubenwardy |
meeting time |
| 19:02 |
rubenwardy |
1 sec |
| 19:11 |
Krock |
the meeting plan is pretty much like: 1. change the IRC channel title, 2. done? |
| 19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I'd like to mention #12549 |
| 19:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12549 -- liquid flow leaves an air gap before reaching the end of another liquid flow |
| 19:13 |
Krock |
bisect would be very helpful |
| 19:13 |
Krock |
haven't seen liquid changes in quite a while |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Niklp> Will #7629 still be a 5.6 feature? |
| 19:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7629 -- Run Minetest update checker on startup by SmallJoker |
| 19:21 |
sfan5 |
I suppose we could start there, since review 5.6.0 Milestone is also on the list |
| 19:22 |
sfan5 |
opinions? rubenwardy, Krock |
| 19:22 |
sfan5 |
also HuguesRoss6, @x2048, nrz_ if they're here |
| 19:23 |
Krock |
I gave it a test yesterday and it works, so I guess if there's already the milestone, then we can consider to merge it if that's okay |
| 19:24 |
rubenwardy |
it's been a while since I've tested or reviewed it, but I was ready to approve minus the Android error |
| 19:24 |
Krock |
the Android error is now gone thanks to sfan5 |
| 19:24 |
|
cheapie joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:24 |
sfan5 |
I didn't test yet but also I'm mainly worrying about the looks of the dialogue |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
yes, it pretty small. the main menu does suffer from the same problem though |
| 19:25 |
sfan5 |
its also disabled on android now isnt it? |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
> -DENABLE_UPDATE_CHECKER=0 \ |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
yes |
| 19:27 |
Krock |
testing #12131 in the meantime |
| 19:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12131 -- Add `minetest.settings` to CSM API and allow CSMs to provide `settingtypes.txt` by AFCMS |
| 19:31 |
sfan5 |
I guess we can merge 7629 then, I'll review/approve later |
| 19:35 |
sfan5 |
next: #11465 |
| 19:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11465 -- New physics overrides by Wuzzy2 |
| 19:36 |
sfan5 |
nobody has re-tested recently and there were some bugs last time so -1 for forcing it into this release |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
plus I really wonder why the physics overrides aren't moved into a separate struct |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
for clean organization and serializing |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
this makes the mess even worse |
| 19:37 |
sfan5 |
if we're postponing this PR anyway this should be done first |
| 19:38 |
sfan5 |
(by one of us, not wuzzy) |
| 19:38 |
Krock |
yes, I'll add it to my TODOs |
| 19:39 |
Krock |
then there's a few bugfixes needed |
| 19:39 |
|
appguru joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:39 |
Krock |
#12048 |
| 19:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12048 -- Autoforward no longer allows sideways movement |
| 19:40 |
sfan5 |
dunno if this is so important, neutral from my side |
| 19:41 |
Krock |
neither it seems important to me. a bisect would be really helpful in this case too |
| 19:41 |
rubenwardy |
I conagreed on phys override |
| 19:41 |
rubenwardy |
I added that to the milestone as it's a regression, I'm not too bothered about it |
| 19:42 |
rubenwardy |
it's something that can be fixed in feature freeze as well |
| 19:42 |
sfan5 |
true |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if you're at physics already, what about #12353 |
| 19:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12353 -- Fix acceleration by appgurueu |
| 19:43 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 19:43 |
Krock |
is the "regression" statement about the "phys override" or is there a bugfix I missed in that PR? |
| 19:43 |
rubenwardy |
autoforward |
| 19:44 |
Krock |
okay then it makes sense |
| 19:44 |
Krock |
should be rather simple to fix |
| 19:45 |
erle |
sfan5 the problem with autoforward and sidewards movement is that riding boats or horses is really hard without that feature |
| 19:45 |
Krock |
as for #12536 - I assume this could be caused by the depth sorting PR |
| 19:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12536 -- Misplaced leaves with visual_scale > 1 |
| 19:45 |
sfan5 |
could be |
| 19:45 |
erle |
holding down a button actually hurts if you do it for several minutes |
| 19:46 |
sfan5 |
@luatic the acceleration fix need thinking about later, definitely not in this feature freeze |
| 19:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> aight |
| 19:48 |
sfan5 |
the leaves thing I didn't check if that was already broken in 5.5 |
| 19:48 |
sfan5 |
but I think it shouldn't be too hard to fix so we should do it for 5.6 imo |
| 19:48 |
erle |
GreenXenith Krock #12549 has been a problem since at least 5.4.x, possibly longer, it makes some user-built structures in games that rely on liquids touching not work in some orientations – most notably cobble generators. |
| 19:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12549 -- liquid flow leaves an air gap before reaching the end of another liquid flow |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:49 |
Krock |
erle: if it's that old, it's not important enough to be a blocker for 5.6.0 |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
please bisect it for higher chances to have it fixed in ime |
| 19:49 |
erle |
yeah it's not a new thing, just a curiosity |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
s/ime/time/ |
| 19:50 |
x2048 |
Hi everyone, am I too late? |
| 19:50 |
Krock |
early enough to replace my spot ^^ |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
you can have a quick read through the log if there's anything you might want to comment on |
| 19:51 |
x2048 |
I can take a look at #12536 |
| 19:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12536 -- Misplaced leaves with visual_scale > 1 |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
that'd be nice |
| 19:53 |
Krock |
no hurries though, the freeze is 2 weeks unless that's changed |
| 19:54 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> July 31-ish, right? |
| 19:54 |
erle |
regarding the autoforward, it is a big enough issue that some people (e.g. me) actually kept using 5.4.1 to play games where autoforwarding long distances is a thing (i.e. boats in every game with big oceans, walking on the nether roof in mcl, flying long distance on some servers) |
| 19:55 |
Krock |
x2048: yes |
| 19:57 |
rubenwardy |
The standard feature freeze length is 1 week, accordingto the dev wiki |
| 19:57 |
rubenwardy |
well, *default/minimum. It's usually extended |
| 19:57 |
erle |
Krock, i found bisection incredibly hard last time i tried due to the lack of submodules + tight irrlichtmt coupling and the buggy mess that is incremental builds (espcially when going backwards, you basically have to rebuild everything in a clean directory). do you have tips on how to do it? |
| 19:58 |
Krock |
you don't need to clean. bisect and checkout a specific IrrlichtMt version |
| 19:59 |
Krock |
granted, that version could be added to the Releases page of Minetest for convenience |
| 20:01 |
sfan5 |
next -> |
| 20:01 |
Krock |
one last input: perhaps it would make sense to update the translations soon |
| 20:01 |
sfan5 |
yes I'll do that next week |
| 20:02 |
Krock |
great |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
do we want to have a look at this list? do we want to have a look at this |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
uh |
| 20:02 |
erle |
Krock, i definitely need to have a clean build environment when i go back in time. i remember sfan5 explained once why cmake/make can't handle this, but i forgot what it was. anyways, if i figure it out, i'll tell later., |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
this list https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+label%3A%22One+approval%22 |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
update translations is usually done at the start of feature freeze, along with string freeze, to allow final updates |
| 20:02 |
Krock |
as long it's not features, they can still be merged later on. as for the feature PRs I think it's okay as-is with the milestone |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
and then again at the end |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
yeah that makes sense |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
yes I'm not suggesting adding any to the milestone |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
I guess we don't have anything to discuss about them then |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
https://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest |
| 20:03 |
Krock |
the milestone takes care of that topic, and we had long time enough to add PRs to it |
| 20:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it would be nice if https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11939 is considered, since that is something on the client, rather than delaying it another release |
| 20:04 |
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| 20:04 |
Krock |
gtg, sorry. enjoy your evening. |
| 20:05 |
MisterE[m] |
yes, that would be nice |
| 20:05 |
|
Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. FEATURE FREEZE ACTIVE. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. https://dev.minetest.net/ https://github.com/minetest |
| 20:06 |
sfan5 |
I'll also tag a new IrrlichtMt release next week |
| 20:07 |
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| 20:08 |
MisterE[m] |
oh, something to consider: adding a new movement physics group: frictionless. That would allow you to have blocks that act like arcade-game ice. When on the block, you can move and not slow down, whatever direction you start moving in, you immediately reach full speed in that direction. You keep moving in that direction until you either reach the end of the node(s) or you move in another direction. |
| 20:08 |
MisterE[m] |
actually, that should be in a feature request, not here |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> I'd like to add #12552 to 5.6.0. |
| 20:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12552 -- Interlaced stereo mode is broken |
| 20:09 |
rubenwardy |
you started the freeze but there's still 2 PRs on the list. I guess it's semi-started (: |
| 20:09 |
rubenwardy |
*feature PRs |
| 20:09 |
sfan5 |
they are excluded obv |
| 20:09 |
sfan5 |
x2048: sure |
| 21:31 |
Zughy[m] |
exactly what features is MT 5.6 gonna have? |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/blog/issues/23 |
| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#5.5.0_.E2.86.92_5.6.0 |
| 21:37 |
erle |
rubenwardy, 9-slice images are new? i thought i had seen some already somewhere |
| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
new for images, not for backgrounds and buttons |
| 21:45 |
erle |
regarding position/speed sanitization … if a player is adjacent to the boundary, what's preventing them of firing an arrow right beyond the boundary or goading the game into doing whatever else past that position in some other way? |
| 22:20 |
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| 22:26 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> does anyone want to second approve #11885? |
| 22:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11885 -- Add unittests for item movement code by savilli |
| 22:26 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> I don't want to rebase it again |
| 22:34 |
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