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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2022-06-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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08:11 sfan5 building for x86 should be possible you just have to hack it into the build scripts yourself
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18:30 sfan5 sometimes I wonder what is wrong with our light curve
18:30 sfan5 nights aren't even dark
18:34 sfan5 also setting entity glow is almost always broken
18:34 sfan5 in 5.6, 5.5, 5.4
18:37 sfan5 5.3 also it turns out
18:49 x2048 joined #minetest-dev
18:50 sfan5 pushing a trivial fix for that
19:35 Krock I'll tell you a secret: since 5.3, a wall of 1 node + a 0.5 slab can no longer be climbed. nobody noticed.
19:36 sfan5 ..with sneak?
19:38 Krock yep
19:46 Krock the fix is pretty trivial but nonetheless hacky: https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Movement-Restore-1-0.5-node-jumps.patch
19:47 Krock including some sqrt distance calculation optimizations
20:13 x2048 What is the status of https://github.com/minetest/B3DExport ? Looks like a code drop from long ago that is not maintained.
20:15 sfan5 supposedly still works
20:15 sfan5 who knows
20:19 x2048 It does not support Blender 2.8, and there are updated versions around: https://github.com/joric/io_scene_b3d, https://github.com/GreenXenith/io_scene_b3d.
20:20 x2048 I'd suggest forking GreenXenith's work into minetest organization, unless there are objections.
20:22 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Greenxenith is rewriting his, to fix issues with it including not working on 3.x
20:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> By in large, greenxeniths is the excepted standard in the community
20:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *accepted
20:24 sfan5 sounds good
20:25 x2048 https://github.com/minetest/io_scene_b3d
20:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> I would advise against forking since officially no one has cared that yours is broken since 2.8? Citation needed. And no need to fork something done by an active community member
20:27 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Or ya know, feel free to confuse people with which one should be accepted by just taking over instead of asking/trying to contribute to it
20:28 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Kinda backstabbing move @x2048
20:30 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Hmm, s/kinda/is a
20:31 x2048 Well, the last public commit was 2 years ago, and we can invite GreenXenith to contribute private commits under minetest organization.
20:31 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Yeah and? It worked till 3.x came out
20:32 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Not to mention if you paid the least bit attention you'd know it's under updates atm.
20:34 MTDiscord <Jonathon> You basically did what the person who shall not be named did where they took a project, forked it, and defacto tried to claim it to be official.
20:38 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Just make me a maintainer ūü§∑
20:39 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Actually, maybe dont
20:39 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> My repo is probably depended on somewhere
20:39 MTDiscord <Jonathon> If you moved yours, github will redirect
20:40 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> True
20:40 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> But I fail to see why a generic exporter needs to be in the minetest org, @x2048
20:40 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> If you want it updated so badly, open a pr
20:41 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Granted, you moving yours would probably need to actually be discussed and approved, another process @x2048 bypassed.
20:42 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Yeah, this whole thing seems like an overstep
20:42 x2048 Guys, I don't mind doing it the right way. Yes, I rushed a bit with the fork, let's kill it.
20:42 sfan5 helps to not depend on external tools that can vanish or break at any moment
20:42 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Lol, did almost everything backwards that could be done backwards in this mess
20:43 MTDiscord <LandarVargan> Github will redirect your repo link if you move it to an organization
20:43 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Already mentioned buddy
20:43 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Keep up ;p
20:44 MTDiscord <LandarVargan> Oh, I misread that, whoops
20:44 sfan5 for that purposed we can also set up a mirror, but in github terms that always results in a fork
20:44 sfan5 purpose*
20:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Sfan5: by that logic you should fork every lib minetest uses, as well as any external tool used with minetest took over and brought it
20:45 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> "But I fail to see why a generic exporter needs to be in the minetest org" what else makes use of b3d nowadays anyway? it is so obscure it might as well be a minetest-specific model format
20:46 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> I think I'm pretty well enough established in this space, enough that we can rely on my repos not suddenly vanishing
20:46 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> But maybe not everyone agrees
20:47 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> I've had people from outside Minetest use the exporter, so there's that, roller
20:47 MTDiscord <Jonathon> ...coughs in core developers who have just vanished with semi popular mods, etc
20:48 rubenwardy glTF support, when
20:48 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *they vanished, not the mods
20:48 sfan5 @Jonathon well no, libraries used by us are not one-person projects someone once wrote (from a stability POV) and if you think of tools like update_translations you can see importing or rewriting it often proposed
20:48 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Also, putting it in the organization further solidifies dependence on a model format that needs to die
20:48 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Sfan5: minetest tools org, etc.
20:49 sfan5 yes it's under minetest-tools
20:49 sfan5 who even runs that, I have no idea
20:49 sfan5 not that I've attempted to find out
20:49 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Thanks for making my point
20:49 sfan5 ??
20:50 MTDiscord <Jonathon> You want to take over the b3d tool, but fine with minetest tools being separate.
20:50 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Anyways, as Ruben hinted and greenxenith said, b3d should die
20:50 sfan5 firstly nobody wants to take anything over and second I just made the point that update_translations should not be separate either
20:50 x2048 Just to let everyone know, fork removed for now. I'll talk to GreenXenith where to move from here.
20:52 sfan5 and also making b3d helps nothing in getting rid of it unless there's an alternative
20:52 sfan5 speaking of alternative doesn't .x do everything needed?
20:53 sfan5 hecks uploaded his exporter for that
20:53 sfan5 " making b3d " -> " making b3d hard to use "
20:53 MTDiscord <Jonathon> > rubenwardy: glTF support, when
20:54 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> X is awful
20:54 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> It has no standard and is uncompressed
20:54 sfan5 does that differ from b3d?
20:54 rubenwardy it's supported officially by blender
20:55 rubenwardy see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9673#issuecomment-613722965
20:55 rubenwardy !title
20:55 ShadowBot Support for more modern mesh format(s) (.gltf) · Issue #9673 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
20:55 rubenwardy .x doesn't appear to be on that list, unless it's .x3d
20:55 MTDiscord <Jonathon> .x isn't as obsolete, but is getting there
20:56 x2048 Judging from readme x exporter is not complete, like bone attachments (animations?) would be broken
20:56 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> B3d has a standard
20:56 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> And only 1 standard
20:57 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> And its thoroughly documented at that
20:57 x2048 GreenXenith, how far are you with Blender 3.x support in b3d exporter?
20:57 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> I'll use b3d any day out of the two evils, but I'd much rather have collada or gltf
20:58 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> 3.x support should be trivial, i was waiting until I finished a redesign to do it though
20:58 rubenwardy Anyway, the best formats to support are collada or gltf.  Collada requires XML iirc, whereas glTF is JSON
20:58 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Por que no los dos?
20:58 rubenwardy inclusive or
20:59 rubenwardy and you'd probably support one first
20:59 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Anyway, ill see about updating to 3.x in like 4 hours
20:59 rubenwardy One problem with this is how to handle backwards compatibility, as old clients won't know what to do with newer model formats. I suppose you'd have to have a fallback in an old format, or break support for those mods
21:00 rubenwardy this isn't a new problem though, see new formspec elements and other api features etc
21:02 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Break all the things! ;p
21:02 rubenwardy I think we should let modders break compat if they require certain features
21:04 sfan5 this is already the case
21:04 MTDiscord <Jonathon> You already do with formspecs. Etc
21:04 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> I still hold the opinion that minetest is basically still in alpha and breaking updates should be expected
21:04 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> But most people disagree with me
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23:57 Zughy[m] GLTF is also widely used by Godot, and it works like a charm on Blender. I'm with Ruben on that
23:58 Zughy[m] using a format that can survive solely because of a single contributor is not safe, especially when considering that basically nobody is using it except people from Minetest

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