Time |
Nick |
Message |
00:37 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> sfan5, I would like to ask for a way to remove dynamically sent media from the client. There are a bunch of cool applications for dynamic media possible if only they would not fill up the client's media cache. |
00:53 |
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00:58 |
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01:03 |
basicer |
I saw in the IRC logs there was some breif interest in using Luau in Minetest. Did anything ever come of that? |
01:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> someone got it semi working, it was more for fun, rather than anything serious |
01:07 |
basicer |
I made some minor minetest contributions back in the day, and I currently work on Luau, so it was cool to see the crossover. |
01:08 |
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01:19 |
erle |
MisterE what kind of ephemeral media would you explicitly want to remove? isn't it good enough to have it until end of session? are you trying to do really bad video streaming? |
01:21 |
basicer |
Did server sent mods ever get decided on or implemented? |
01:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> no |
01:32 |
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01:50 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Though, I do know that c55 is interested/on board for the physics client side Lua stuff, so it's in the cards :) |
02:04 |
erle |
exe_virus everyone is interested, but the only things anyone knows to implement securely and without performance issues are a) separately downloaded or integrated CSMs (dragonfire/waspsaliva/cheatdb) b) declarative solutions – and i would be extremely surprised if physics was not a declarative thing. |
02:05 |
erle |
basicer have fun https://git.minetest.land/luk3yx/sscsm |
02:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> thats one of two options, but the only one thats being used in a engine |
02:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://github.com/GreenXenith/sscsm_ssm and https://github.com/GreenXenith/sscsm_csm |
02:14 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Note that those aren't necessarily implemented securely either |
03:04 |
basicer |
Luckily I dont have a horse in the SSCSM race anymore. |
03:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> checking back in for something specific, or just in general? |
03:18 |
basicer |
Just curious. I was mostly interested in what came of the interest in Luau. |
03:26 |
MTDiscord |
<FatalError> SSCSMs basically will never become a thing in this current climate tbh |
03:41 |
basicer |
Im just happy to see the project still going 4 years later. |
04:00 |
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04:25 |
erle |
basicer what did you want to do using SSCSMs? |
04:25 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Erle basically, yes |
04:25 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> There are many applications for really bad streaming |
04:26 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Its called moving pictures |
04:27 |
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04:28 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Also, other things like billboards that can cycle thru an unlimited number of different ads, bgm that can be dj'd |
04:29 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Having a cctv mod would be possible |
04:30 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Having a tv channel mod ingame would be possible |
04:31 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Basically, anything that you could send/generate an unlimited number of small textures, which would be used once and then should be thrown away |
04:37 |
erle |
MisterE[m] are texture modifiers are garbage collected? if so, i'd suggest to invent one that is less of a fractal of bad design than the “[PNG” one and utilize that. like plain PBM or so. |
04:37 |
erle |
i bet they aren't though |
04:38 |
erle |
MisterE[m] do you have any proof-of-concepts that run out of memory rn? |
04:45 |
basicer |
erle: I dont want to do anything anymore. At the time I was working for a company that made games for kids on a Raspberry Pi, and we wanted to have an educational version of minecraft for them. If the server could send mods, it made our update story much easier. |
04:54 |
erle |
basicer what update story? |
04:55 |
basicer |
We had CSMs that were pretty complicated, so it would have been nice if the server could have sent those down instead of us needing to have scripts to update them from our srevers. |
06:16 |
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06:21 |
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06:26 |
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06:29 |
talenone |
is this channel active ? |
06:48 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it's active when there's something to talk about |
06:51 |
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07:18 |
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07:24 |
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07:28 |
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07:28 |
Zughy[m] |
<MTDiscord> "<FatalError> SSCSMs basically..." <- considering how PRs are going down (subtract possible close + one approval PRs and you'll reach something like 80 PRs), maybe SSCSM discussion is not that far away. Just, one step at a time |
07:29 |
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07:29 |
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07:29 |
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07:29 |
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07:29 |
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07:29 |
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07:35 |
sfan5 |
@MisterE this requires garbage collection of textures at which point you no longer need an explicit way to remove sent textures |
07:45 |
sfan5 |
paradust: does your fix for #11852 perhaps also have something to do with #11410? |
07:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11852 -- Parts of slime entity model are not rendered anymore when shaders are turned on (regression from 5.4.1) |
07:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11410 -- Flower pots sometimes get invisible in Hades Revisited |
08:11 |
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09:12 |
erle |
paradust thank you for figuring #11852 out. the answer for “why is this model like that” is most likely “you can make it look cooler using different textures” |
09:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11852 -- Parts of slime entity model are not rendered anymore when shaders are turned on (regression from 5.4.1) |
09:14 |
erle |
paradust like, i am pretty sure that there is one texture set in which the slime body is a transparent cube in a smaller cube and the eyes and mouth are just black cubes. |
09:14 |
erle |
i just don't know its name |
09:15 |
erle |
paradust with the other texture set it looks somewhat similar to that i think? https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/minecraft_gamepedia/images/d/dd/Slime_JE3_BE2.png/revision/latest?cb=20191230025505&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWqNP_wMX3AhUSSfEDHXI-DbAQ_B16BAgEEAI |
09:49 |
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10:07 |
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10:15 |
Zughy[m] |
Can I please have some core dev take on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10294#issuecomment-1117144499 ? |
10:16 |
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10:31 |
erle |
Zughy[m] what exactly would be the bug in your minigame mod? |
10:31 |
erle |
Zughy[m] also i bet rubenwardy can grep for how common it is to use this deliberately |
10:41 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Erle, I'm not sure. My dynamic_bgm mod, perhaps. Not sure, it would only affect clients with low memory such as mobile |
10:41 |
erle |
why would anyone use noclip that way |
11:02 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: we'd need your semantic grep here ;) |
11:02 |
Zughy[m] |
erle: there is no bug, but there will be if collisionbox = {0} starts returning a one point collision again |
11:03 |
Zughy[m] |
and I'd need physical = false to also be implemented |
11:17 |
erle |
luatic you can write the semgrep rule as good as i can |
11:27 |
sfan5 |
Zughy[m]: not changing that behaviour again sounds good to me, but physical = false should be implemented too |
11:28 |
HuguesRoss |
Merging #11920 in 15 |
11:28 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11920 -- Add vector.combine by appgurueu |
11:30 |
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12:40 |
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13:55 |
paradust |
sfan5: Seems plausible that it does |
13:56 |
paradust |
erle: Even with the simple fix, there's no way for the shader to render transparency inside transparency like that |
13:57 |
erle |
paradust then ig i misremember how it looked. |
13:57 |
paradust |
I believe this requires rendering the submeshes further from the camera first |
13:58 |
erle |
have you tried it? |
13:58 |
erle |
at least about the eyes thing i am pretty sure, that they are black cubes with another texture set. |
13:58 |
paradust |
nope |
13:58 |
paradust |
the eyes would probably be fine, since they are darker and not transaprent. but I suspect the inner cube would not show up. |
13:59 |
paradust |
actually, it might be possible to fix this without doing anything fancy. maybe just by getting rid of the depth test |
13:59 |
erle |
i mean, you can see how the textures look |
14:00 |
erle |
there is enough space to just paint something in it |
14:02 |
Zughy[m] |
#12269 has a bad title and it doesn't belong in MT repo, but I can't fix neither (if we exclude the "just close it" option) |
14:02 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12269 -- minecart |
14:16 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> you can put Invalid tag |
14:21 |
Zughy[m] |
oh, nice idea, thanks savilli |
14:34 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> minecart |
14:38 |
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15:28 |
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15:50 |
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15:51 |
appguru |
Zughy: Could you please label #12270 as bugfix and #11904 as bug? |
15:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12270 -- HUD: Update selection mesh every frame by appgurueu |
15:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11904 -- Minetest doesn't update entity selectionbox while selected |
15:53 |
appguru |
Zughy[m] |
15:53 |
Zughy[m] |
done everything |
15:53 |
appguru |
thanks :) |
15:54 |
Zughy[m] |
I get notified if anyone writes just my name, it's a Matrix feature. No need to tag me :D yw |
15:54 |
appguru |
BTW: Do you think a HUD tag might be useful? |
15:54 |
appguru |
Considering there's a formspec tag as well |
15:54 |
Zughy[m] |
there is UI/UX |
15:55 |
sfan5 |
what makes UI/UX different that it doesn't fit into any of the @ categories (like "@ Mainmenu")? |
15:55 |
sfan5 |
not that I disagree I'd just like to know whether you have given it thought |
15:56 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
15:56 |
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15:56 |
rubenwardy |
it feels redundant with formspec |
15:56 |
rubenwardy |
I'd maybe merge formspec into UI/UX |
15:57 |
rubenwardy |
UX does include other things, like controls and general ease-of-use |
15:57 |
Zughy[m] |
it's mostly UX, so an issue that complains about user experience (accessibility, touch experience etc) |
15:58 |
Zughy[m] |
sfan5: #3022 #3255 and #11058 now belong to MT fork of irrlicht. They should be either moved or closed |
15:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3022 -- Input Method Editor (IME) Support |
15:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3255 -- Some Irrlicht messages bypass the Minetest log system |
15:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11058 -- "M" key not working on MacOS X french keyboard |
15:58 |
rubenwardy |
Zughy[m]: how much of this is done now #2729 ? |
15:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2729 -- Sky additions/changes |
15:59 |
sfan5 |
Zughy[m]: I think they should be reopened on the irrlicht repo if still applicable instead of moving |
16:00 |
Zughy[m] |
rubenwardy: just the layering, which is better explained in #11366 anyway. I'll close the one from Kenney |
16:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11366 -- Sky layer API |
16:01 |
rubenwardy |
cool! Make sure to add a comment |
16:03 |
sfan5 |
github says someone mentioned me in #12261 4 minutes ago but I don't see anything |
16:03 |
sfan5 |
weird |
16:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12261 -- [no squash] Optimize JSON string (de)serialization routines by sfan5 |
16:03 |
Zughy[m] |
sfan5: I'll put a comment telling people to reopen there then, closing |
16:05 |
rubenwardy |
Do we provide official MacOS builds? |
16:05 |
rubenwardy |
looks like no |
16:05 |
rubenwardy |
context: #3596 |
16:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3596 -- Making Minetest easy to install on all operating systems |
16:09 |
sfan5 |
travis artifacts are the closest we have |
16:09 |
sfan5 |
but software won't run unless you somehow let apple sign it first |
16:09 |
sfan5 |
so those don't work(?) |
16:10 |
sfan5 |
anyway we'd need a person with a macbook to sit down for a week to actually make macos stuff work properly |
16:11 |
Zughy[m] |
I wonder how many people with a macbook there are in the MT community |
16:14 |
erle |
jordach? |
16:15 |
erle |
surely the apple users can just appeal to the maintainers of their distribution |
16:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I have an intel macbook, though it's not my primary system for MTing |
16:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "Connect to a server with any of a variety of devices and get a reasonably consistent experience" is one of the things I really like about MT. |
16:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'd play MC if I wanted "we have interoperability at home" |
16:18 |
erle |
sick burn hehe |
16:18 |
erle |
i sometimes read mojangs issue tracker. apparently they have – contrary to minetest – not figured out how to not ruin user worlds when migrating them to newer versions. hilarious. |
16:19 |
erle |
sfan5 how does homebrew solve the apple landlord problem? |
16:20 |
erle |
context: i remember using a mac (for work, i complained until i got a thinkpad) and homebrew was a package manager that installed stuff from the internet. and i doubt all of that had been properly signed. |
16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I use homebrew, and I think it has its own signature system, which of course doesn't interop with the Apple signing stuff so you still get copious warnings when you run stuff you installed via brew the first time. |
16:22 |
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16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I actually like using a mac for work because it's easier not to mix business and pleasure when they're on different platforms. |
16:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IIRC there are some builds for mac on the forums, but I think I use the homebrew version and it's adequate, though there are a number of random annoyances to it |
16:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> like I sound like a dunce when I type in chat on the macbook because for some reason the apostrophe key doesn't work at all so I type "youre" a lot there. |
16:29 |
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16:30 |
sfan5 |
anyway, reminder that #11545 needs another review |
16:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11545 -- Animated particlespawners by velartrill |
16:32 |
erle |
uh, does the “take a step towards parity with the particle systems of other game engines” include getting rid of a bazillion drawcalls? |
16:32 |
erle |
doesn't seem so, well |
16:34 |
rubenwardy |
that's my view, feels like building on unstable foundations |
16:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> MT has always been an unstable foundation. |
16:35 |
sfan5 |
neither of you seem to have read https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11505#issuecomment-890941573 |
16:35 |
erle |
also these features are nice enough that people will immediately depend on that |
16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I agree, this is to be viewed independent of perf issues |
16:37 |
rubenwardy |
it's not a separate concern when the code is intertwinned. That's a rather idealistic comment |
16:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Pretty sure velartrill hardly touched the rendering code (only in relation to the blending changes, which hecks' comment predates) |
16:40 |
sfan5 |
it's not idealistic, the reasoning is explained |
16:40 |
erle |
i only know that the irrlicht particle system already has affectors. and i still think the easy way out would be to use that (once someone figures out how to render rain with it, or have a separate path for that maybe). i doubt it is that easy after more features are bolted on. |
16:41 |
erle |
i guess particles are, after all, a bunch of scene nodes with billboards |
16:42 |
erle |
is velartrill on irc? |
16:42 |
erle |
(i can't see discord users) |
16:44 |
erle |
“Performance wise, I don't think you could make particles any worse even if you tried. =]” haha i remember the issue now |
16:46 |
erle |
does devtest have a particle stress test? i mean particle lag happens in real games all the time, but is there anything? (i haven't seen anything) |
16:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> velartrill is not on Discord |
17:46 |
sfan5 |
not to mention that after the contributor had presented a proposal, discussed it with devs, received a go ahead, did all the coding work and received one approval it's not the right point in time to say "uh no actually we didn't like this from the start" |
17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> velartrill did a good job |
17:59 |
rubenwardy |
huh wtf |
17:59 |
rubenwardy |
trying to find the issue about disabling game mods |
17:59 |
rubenwardy |
another closed issue mentions it, was closed as duplicate, and links to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8622/ |
17:59 |
rubenwardy |
but that doesn't exist |
18:00 |
rubenwardy |
was it GDPR'd |
18:06 |
wsor |
stuck between two kidscode prs of all things |
18:07 |
rubenwardy |
issues should be owned by the project, not the user. They shouldn't be able to just delete issues |
18:07 |
rubenwardy |
although I guess maybe it was closed |
18:14 |
sfan5 |
there's no direct way I'm aware of by which users can delete issues |
18:14 |
sfan5 |
deleting their account will reown issues to 'ghost' |
18:20 |
Zughy[m] |
I know some changes have been made to the CI recently, so is this thing still relevant and/or wanted? #11667 |
18:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11667 -- Github CI: Reduce compilation times with ccache |
18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Zughy: yes, it is still relevant; sfan5's fixes are just fixes (and upgrades) AFAIK and not performance improvements |
18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Wasn't there another PR that suggested using multiple cores? |
18:34 |
sfan5 |
the github runners have only two cores and our scripts already auto-detect the number of cores |
18:36 |
paradust |
are we building -O0 and without debug info? |
18:37 |
sfan5 |
-O0 and with debug info, mostly |
18:40 |
Krock |
will merge #12247 #12256 and #12215 in 15 minutes |
18:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12247 -- Make logging cost free when there is no output target by paradust7 |
18:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12256 -- guiScalingFilter: Fix most memory leaks by SmallJoker |
18:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12215 -- hud_get: Return precision field for waypoints by appgurueu |
18:54 |
Krock |
merging |
18:55 |
Krock |
done |
18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Anyone willing to take a look at #12270? It fixes a pretty ancient issue. |
18:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12270 -- HUD: Update selection mesh every frame by appgurueu |
19:22 |
sfan5 |
how expensive is updateSelectionMesh? |
19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> would you like me to profile it? |
19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> code-wise all it's doing is creating a halo mesh - literally a single cube |
19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> should be very fast |
19:29 |
sfan5 |
profile it just in case |
19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Can I just put a ScopeProfiler in the func scope and it will automagically work? |
19:31 |
sfan5 |
yes |
19:32 |
sfan5 |
it measures in milliseconds though which probably rounds to zero |
19:33 |
sfan5 |
it drops and recreates the mesh though, this will be bad because it will require it to be reuploaded every frame |
19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/971494878045438002/Bildschirmfoto_von_2022-05-04_21-33-30.png |
19:34 |
sfan5 |
(and this might not show up in the profiler) |
19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> true |
19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> but this is already the current worst-case |
19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> should I include a check whether the mesh has changed? |
19:34 |
sfan5 |
is it? |
19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: if you fly around point at things (e.g. in a tunnel), your pointed thing is already constantly changing |
19:35 |
sfan5 |
but not every frame |
19:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if you're fast enough... |
19:35 |
sfan5 |
well ok |
19:35 |
sfan5 |
but with this you'd be making the average case the worst case |
19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> indeed |
19:37 |
sfan5 |
hm I can't think of a good way to detect updates |
19:37 |
sfan5 |
so I guess having it not touch the mesh if it's equal would be a good way |
19:41 |
Zughy[m] |
I proudly inform you that issues went down from 1104 to 1046 in about 24 hours thanks to Rubenwardy and me. Now the counter doesn't say 1.1k anymore, just 1k; I hope to bring them below 1000 eventually |
19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yay, I was just gonna mention how much the open issue amount has shrunk the last day or so but you beat me to it :P |
19:46 |
Zughy[m] |
<3 |
19:47 |
Zughy[m] |
if anyone wants to test unconfirmed bugs and then just ping me when you can confirm one, please do and I'll change the labels |
19:56 |
sfan5 |
appguru: actually you can probably locate the code that sets m_selection_boxes and have it set a changed flag |
19:57 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/a8707158a5be8c604fdb028a9c5f68ce5804016e/src/client/hud.cpp#L857-L865 haha never mind this is terribly inefficient regardless of how often the mesh is changed |
19:59 |
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20:06 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: I take it I shouldn't implement the checks in the end? |
20:07 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (yes, this already generates a mesh & sends it to the GPU each frame anyways) |
20:08 |
sfan5 |
you can skip that yes |
20:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: will shutdowns wait for async threads to finish? |
20:34 |
sfan5 |
yes |
20:35 |
sfan5 |
it's kinda hard not to |
20:37 |
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20:38 |
appguru |
good good, that allows me to implement async file writing using them, right? |
20:44 |
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20:58 |
sfan5 |
yes |
21:14 |
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21:37 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Merging #12262 in 5m |
21:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12262 -- Avoid rendering invisible faces of simple nodeboxes by x2048 |
21:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> NICE |
21:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> and also SHIT |
21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> now this means I have to undo some of my nodebox->mesh optimizations when they become pessimizations. |
21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Merged now |
21:47 |
rubenwardy |
merging #11176 in 5 |
21:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11176 -- Fix Windows Visual Studio actions by LoneWolfHT |
21:47 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> @Warr1024 well, NodeCore will only get better ? |
21:47 |
rubenwardy |
also #12115 is pretty trivial |
21:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12115 -- Default chat clickable weblinks by Froggo8311 |
21:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> x2048, I'd love to see more geometry optimizations like that. If you're interested in something along the same theme, it'd be nice to generate separate more-optimized wieldmeshes for different images based on alpha-clip-mask as well as resolution, instead of the generic one with tons of hidden faces. Dunno the specific # of that one though... |
21:50 |
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21:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> #3069 omg wow, this one is ancient... |
21:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3069 -- Many wieldmesh polygons |
21:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Speaking of NodeCore, this one is possibly a BIG deal for NodeCore. |
21:51 |
Toothless |
Is there a way to force remove entities, like removing an train from advtrains. |
21:55 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Toothless: it might be best to search/ask in the forum, like, here : https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14726 |
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23:08 |
Zughy[m] |
Pretty trivial but "Maintenance" label should be "@ Maintenance" to be coherent with the rest of the macrocategories (at least, the colour is the same) |
23:09 |
rubenwardy |
maintenance isn't an area though, it's a thing you do with any area |
23:10 |
rubenwardy |
@ is supposed to be a location in the code, a subsystem |
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