| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
erle |
df is the griefer client. ws is the “i wanna have a macro to spawn a structure without having worldedit privs” client. |
| 00:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Then perhaps we need a baritone equivalent that allows free sharing of .MTS files |
| 00:01 |
erle |
you still need the materials |
| 00:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Yes but having a way to holographically display it in world would be a start |
| 00:01 |
erle |
contact cora for that though |
| 00:01 |
erle |
oh yeah |
| 00:02 |
erle |
in fact, i think it would be a good idea for gameplay enhancing |
| 00:02 |
erle |
to holographically show something you wanna build |
| 00:02 |
erle |
entirely client-side |
| 00:03 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> fortnite |
| 00:03 |
erle |
fortnite removed building though lol |
| 00:03 |
erle |
i find it hilarious |
| 00:04 |
erle |
1. make successful game 2. ??? 3. remove beloved feature |
| 00:04 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> it did? since when? |
| 00:04 |
erle |
very recently |
| 00:05 |
erle |
march 21st |
| 00:05 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> lmao |
| 00:05 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> that can't be real, i'll google it |
| 00:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it is real |
| 00:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's the best state that game will ever be in |
| 00:05 |
erle |
i'm telling you, we are living in the stupidest timeline |
| 00:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> because no longer can you just press mouse buttons and acquire a 5 star hotem |
| 00:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> digression achieved |
| 00:06 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> an article from 7 hours ago says they re-added it |
| 00:06 |
erle |
maybe the backlash was too much lol |
| 00:07 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> no one can resist the 9 year olds |
| 00:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> well yes because building is a crutch for inability to aim |
| 00:07 |
erle |
jordach, true, i play minetest with a touchpad lmao |
| 00:07 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> they should play a skill-based game that encourages perseverance instead of cringe |
| 00:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's why the shotgun meta was a thing |
| 00:08 |
erle |
can minetest remove building for a week lol |
| 00:08 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> i used to play ctf with a touchpad, it's really not that bad |
| 00:08 |
erle |
yeah i used to do that too |
| 00:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> CtF is like the technic modpack |
| 00:08 |
erle |
sniper style |
| 00:08 |
erle |
back to engine discussions please |
| 00:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> also erle: consider tsam as a "software is designed to survive extreme thermal, physical and radiological events" type thing |
| 00:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> not as a "make sure the F1 car doesn't crash in the first turn" |
| 00:10 |
erle |
i think the problem is that the people insisting that SSCSM can be made to work in a way that is both secure enough are talking out of their asses, so to say. the reason being is that everyone who claims that has another goal than security. everyone caring about security a bit either says it can't be done or that no one has an idea how it can be done. |
| 00:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> we already have a decent working sandbox for local games |
| 00:11 |
erle |
last i checked i could concatenate strings until the ram is full, do i need to check again? |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> that's either malicious or the developer is a brain dead idiot |
| 00:12 |
erle |
more likely the issue is that i have 2GB of RAM and some clown developes using 8GB or 16GB of RAM and does not notice leaks as fast as i do |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> you only have leaks if you use globals for everyuthing |
| 00:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the blame should not be on core devs to imagine everything |
| 00:13 |
erle |
no |
| 00:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> but rather what an idiot can achieve |
| 00:13 |
erle |
regardless, there are proven models that do not require full turing-completeness for interactivity |
| 00:13 |
erle |
think SVG interactions, they are fully declarative |
| 00:13 |
erle |
or CSS transitions |
| 00:14 |
erle |
if your goal is “i want to click a button in a formspec and have no lag”, that's the way to go |
| 00:14 |
erle |
not arbitrary lua |
| 00:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> didn't we have a PR that added chrome embedded 8) |
| 00:14 |
erle |
oof |
| 00:14 |
erle |
i saw that and i think it was just texture copying |
| 00:14 |
erle |
or i hope |
| 00:15 |
erle |
anyways, chrome is a perfect example for sandboxes being stupid |
| 00:15 |
erle |
if north korea can zeroday the thing, despite google pouring millions of eurodollars into the product, any poser with a parka can exploit minetest if it tries the same thing |
| 00:16 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> That reminds me of Microsoft Word, why the hell is there a warning saying that some word files might contain viruses? |
| 00:16 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> Does Word execute word files somehow? |
| 00:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Word macros are VBA scripts |
| 00:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> and are not run by default either |
| 00:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> same as blender scripts |
| 00:17 |
erle |
oneplustwo, the ”word macro” situation tells you all about how much users will be protected by a “do you want to run this SSCSM?” popup |
| 00:18 |
erle |
namely, not at all. because the code will just suggest that without allowing the malware to run you can't play. |
| 00:18 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> There's no way the average minetest player would know what a SSCSM means. |
| 00:18 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> Have you seen the chats in the popular MT servers? |
| 00:19 |
erle |
are you saying the chats that start calc.exe? |
| 00:19 |
erle |
i have seen a video from fitmc where he is telling others to update their java and they are like nah i didn't do it |
| 00:19 |
erle |
and he is telling them they should unplug the fucking computer and he is not joking lol |
| 00:20 |
erle |
the guy gives good IT security advice |
| 00:20 |
erle |
:P |
| 00:20 |
erle |
so well, i think a good idea would be to have officially approved CSMs, but not server-sent. |
| 00:20 |
erle |
i.e. embrace cheatdb, then just add stuff like the mumble CSM or the rumble CSM. |
| 00:21 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> It's easy to trick the average minetest player |
| 00:21 |
erle |
yes lol |
| 00:21 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> I managed to convince several players on clamity to throw their diamond swords into lava because I said it would "forge it into a gun" |
| 00:21 |
erle |
i think owl once tricked someone into giving up base coordinates by using anon5 as the username? |
| 00:21 |
erle |
oneplustwo i think your best joke was on how to escape the end “just dig straight down until you find end ore” |
| 00:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> how about we respect that the end users are morons |
| 00:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> and will make a mess no matter how strict or lax security may be, see windows vista UAC prompts |
| 00:22 |
erle |
oneplustwo did you know: one night of sleep in a warm bed in the nether equals 8 nights in the overworld |
| 00:22 |
erle |
jordach you can make a perfect machine out of imperfect parts |
| 00:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> a perfect machine does not fix the problem between the keyboard and chair |
| 00:25 |
erle |
yes, you identified the turing-complete user |
| 00:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the irrational-turing-complete user |
| 00:26 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> reminds me of the "women are programmable" tiktok thing |
| 00:26 |
erle |
what |
| 00:27 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> replace "women" with "the ignorant" and you'll get a more accurate statement |
| 00:27 |
erle |
http://contemporary-home-computing.org/turing-complete-user/ |
| 00:27 |
erle |
nah, the no |
| 00:27 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> damn, i miss talking to people who know less than myself |
| 00:27 |
erle |
the not-stupid users are much better at being a computer |
| 00:28 |
erle |
> Think about Vanevar Bush’s “As we May Think” (1945), one of the most influential texts in computer culture. Bush spends more words describing the person who would use the Memex than the Memex itself. He described a scientists of the future, a superman. |
| 00:28 |
erle |
> As an interaction designer, it’s best to imagine that users – especially — beginners — are simultaneously very intelligent and very busy. |
| 00:28 |
erle |
or, to say it better |
| 00:28 |
erle |
> General Purpose Users can write an article in their e-mail client, layout their business card in Excel and shave in front of a web cam. They can also find a way to publish photos online without flickr, tweet without twitter, like without facebook, make a black frame around pictures without instagram, remove a black frame from an instagram picture and even wake up at 7:00 without a “wake up at 7:00” app. |
| 00:29 |
erle |
they are not ”morons” |
| 00:29 |
erle |
> But whatever name I chose, what I mean are users who have the ability to achieve their goals regardless of the primary purpose of an application or device. Such users will find a way to their aspiration without an app or utility programmed specifically for it. The Universal user is not a super user, not half a hacker. It is not an exotic type of user. |
| 00:29 |
erle |
jordach i think you should read that article |
| 00:30 |
erle |
especially since you are probably writing user-facing code |
| 00:36 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> didn't know computer philosophy was a thing |
| 00:38 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Yeah, one is: make good tools and decent docs, the other is make the tool foolproof, and fire your customer service reps |
| 00:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> seems #minetest-dev turned into #minetest |
| 00:39 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> We, here in engine fall in the second category: volunteer customer service, and foolproof software that will have a bug every time |
| 00:49 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> best of all, no one cares about the bugs |
| 01:27 |
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| 01:33 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Hey, I resent that |
| 01:33 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> I happen to be very fond of some bugs |
| 01:36 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I wish there was a bug that if you hit the end of the world it loops back around |
| 01:40 |
erle |
you can probably do this with trickery |
| 02:03 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> you can even make the boundary almost seamless |
| 02:04 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> Donut world |
| 02:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Thankfully that title idea never caught on at Bungee. |
| 02:29 |
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| 02:33 |
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| 03:12 |
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| 03:28 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> 4 |
| 03:32 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> oops, ignore that... while I manage to delete the other garbage text when the cat ran through keyboard while I'm back-reading the channel, seem like the cat had press "4" and "enter" beforehand |
| 04:00 |
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| 07:00 |
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| 07:18 |
sfan5 |
please reduce the amount of noise in here or I will mute the reponsible people |
| 07:18 |
sfan5 |
including the entire discord bridge, if necessary |
| 08:39 |
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| 08:50 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I'd rather you just ask us to mute people on our side, thanks. |
| 09:10 |
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| 09:21 |
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| 22:01 |
Sokomine |
need help: latest git failes to compile for me in src/client/shader.cpp:43 file mt_opengl.h is missing. any ideas? |
| 22:05 |
erle |
Sokomine first thing, is it a rebuild or a clean one? |
| 22:07 |
Sokomine |
i did a "make clean" after i got that error and tried again. didn't help. i've used and git-pulled it for some time now |
| 22:08 |
erle |
i'm buidling rn, might take a while |
| 22:08 |
Sokomine |
thanks. i can sadly find no trace of mt_opengl.h anywhere so i'm asking |
| 22:09 |
Desour |
it's in ittlichtmt. did you pull that too? |
| 22:09 |
Sokomine |
yes, i did |
| 22:10 |
Sokomine |
that is, lib/irrlicht |
| 22:10 |
Desour |
lib/irrlichtmt for me |
| 22:10 |
Desour |
(as in https://github.com/minetest/minetest#download) |
| 22:12 |
Sokomine |
thank you. i still had lib/irrlicht and didn't see the attached mt |
| 22:24 |
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| 22:42 |
Sokomine |
thank you. that was it. didn't see the attached mt at the lib/irrlichtmt and wasn't aware that a header file might be created during compile |
