Time Nick Message 00:00 erle df is the griefer client. ws is the “i wanna have a macro to spawn a structure without having worldedit privs” client. 00:00 MTDiscord Then perhaps we need a baritone equivalent that allows free sharing of .MTS files 00:01 erle you still need the materials 00:01 MTDiscord Yes but having a way to holographically display it in world would be a start 00:01 erle contact cora for that though 00:01 erle oh yeah 00:02 erle in fact, i think it would be a good idea for gameplay enhancing 00:02 erle to holographically show something you wanna build 00:02 erle entirely client-side 00:03 MTDiscord fortnite 00:03 erle fortnite removed building though lol 00:03 erle i find it hilarious 00:04 erle 1. make successful game 2. ??? 3. remove beloved feature 00:04 MTDiscord it did? since when? 00:04 erle very recently 00:05 erle march 21st 00:05 MTDiscord lmao 00:05 MTDiscord that can't be real, i'll google it 00:05 MTDiscord it is real 00:05 MTDiscord it's the best state that game will ever be in 00:05 erle i'm telling you, we are living in the stupidest timeline 00:06 MTDiscord because no longer can you just press mouse buttons and acquire a 5 star hotem 00:06 MTDiscord digression achieved 00:06 MTDiscord an article from 7 hours ago says they re-added it 00:06 erle maybe the backlash was too much lol 00:07 MTDiscord no one can resist the 9 year olds 00:07 MTDiscord well yes because building is a crutch for inability to aim 00:07 erle jordach, true, i play minetest with a touchpad lmao 00:07 MTDiscord they should play a skill-based game that encourages perseverance instead of cringe 00:08 MTDiscord it's why the shotgun meta was a thing 00:08 erle can minetest remove building for a week lol 00:08 MTDiscord i used to play ctf with a touchpad, it's really not that bad 00:08 erle yeah i used to do that too 00:08 MTDiscord CtF is like the technic modpack 00:08 erle sniper style 00:08 erle back to engine discussions please 00:10 MTDiscord also erle: consider tsam as a "software is designed to survive extreme thermal, physical and radiological events" type thing 00:10 MTDiscord not as a "make sure the F1 car doesn't crash in the first turn" 00:10 erle i think the problem is that the people insisting that SSCSM can be made to work in a way that is both secure enough are talking out of their asses, so to say. the reason being is that everyone who claims that has another goal than security. everyone caring about security a bit either says it can't be done or that no one has an idea how it can be done. 00:10 MTDiscord we already have a decent working sandbox for local games 00:11 erle last i checked i could concatenate strings until the ram is full, do i need to check again? 00:11 MTDiscord that's either malicious or the developer is a brain dead idiot 00:12 erle more likely the issue is that i have 2GB of RAM and some clown developes using 8GB or 16GB of RAM and does not notice leaks as fast as i do 00:12 MTDiscord you only have leaks if you use globals for everyuthing 00:13 MTDiscord the blame should not be on core devs to imagine everything 00:13 erle no 00:13 MTDiscord but rather what an idiot can achieve 00:13 erle regardless, there are proven models that do not require full turing-completeness for interactivity 00:13 erle think SVG interactions, they are fully declarative 00:13 erle or CSS transitions 00:14 erle if your goal is “i want to click a button in a formspec and have no lag”, that's the way to go 00:14 erle not arbitrary lua 00:14 MTDiscord didn't we have a PR that added chrome embedded 8) 00:14 erle oof 00:14 erle i saw that and i think it was just texture copying 00:14 erle or i hope 00:15 erle anyways, chrome is a perfect example for sandboxes being stupid 00:15 erle if north korea can zeroday the thing, despite google pouring millions of eurodollars into the product, any poser with a parka can exploit minetest if it tries the same thing 00:16 MTDiscord That reminds me of Microsoft Word, why the hell is there a warning saying that some word files might contain viruses? 00:16 MTDiscord Does Word execute word files somehow? 00:16 MTDiscord Word macros are VBA scripts 00:16 MTDiscord and are not run by default either 00:16 MTDiscord same as blender scripts 00:17 erle oneplustwo, the ”word macro” situation tells you all about how much users will be protected by a “do you want to run this SSCSM?” popup 00:18 erle namely, not at all. because the code will just suggest that without allowing the malware to run you can't play. 00:18 MTDiscord There's no way the average minetest player would know what a SSCSM means. 00:18 MTDiscord Have you seen the chats in the popular MT servers? 00:19 erle are you saying the chats that start calc.exe? 00:19 erle i have seen a video from fitmc where he is telling others to update their java and they are like nah i didn't do it 00:19 erle and he is telling them they should unplug the fucking computer and he is not joking lol 00:20 erle the guy gives good IT security advice 00:20 erle :P 00:20 erle so well, i think a good idea would be to have officially approved CSMs, but not server-sent. 00:20 erle i.e. embrace cheatdb, then just add stuff like the mumble CSM or the rumble CSM. 00:21 MTDiscord It's easy to trick the average minetest player 00:21 erle yes lol 00:21 MTDiscord I managed to convince several players on clamity to throw their diamond swords into lava because I said it would "forge it into a gun" 00:21 erle i think owl once tricked someone into giving up base coordinates by using anon5 as the username? 00:21 erle oneplustwo i think your best joke was on how to escape the end “just dig straight down until you find end ore” 00:22 MTDiscord how about we respect that the end users are morons 00:22 MTDiscord and will make a mess no matter how strict or lax security may be, see windows vista UAC prompts 00:22 erle oneplustwo did you know: one night of sleep in a warm bed in the nether equals 8 nights in the overworld 00:22 erle jordach you can make a perfect machine out of imperfect parts 00:24 MTDiscord a perfect machine does not fix the problem between the keyboard and chair 00:25 erle yes, you identified the turing-complete user 00:26 MTDiscord the irrational-turing-complete user 00:26 MTDiscord reminds me of the "women are programmable" tiktok thing 00:26 erle what 00:27 MTDiscord replace "women" with "the ignorant" and you'll get a more accurate statement 00:27 erle http://contemporary-home-computing.org/turing-complete-user/ 00:27 erle nah, the no 00:27 MTDiscord damn, i miss talking to people who know less than myself 00:27 erle the not-stupid users are much better at being a computer 00:28 erle > Think about Vanevar Bush’s “As we May Think” (1945), one of the most influential texts in computer culture. Bush spends more words describing the person who would use the Memex than the Memex itself. He described a scientists of the future, a superman. 00:28 erle > As an interaction designer, it’s best to imagine that users – especially — beginners — are simultaneously very intelligent and very busy. 00:28 erle or, to say it better 00:28 erle > General Purpose Users can write an article in their e-mail client, layout their business card in Excel and shave in front of a web cam. They can also find a way to publish photos online without flickr, tweet without twitter, like without facebook, make a black frame around pictures without instagram, remove a black frame from an instagram picture and even wake up at 7:00 without a “wake up at 7:00” app. 00:29 erle they are not ”morons” 00:29 erle > But whatever name I chose, what I mean are users who have the ability to achieve their goals regardless of the primary purpose of an application or device. Such users will find a way to their aspiration without an app or utility programmed specifically for it. The Universal user is not a super user, not half a hacker. It is not an exotic type of user. 00:29 erle jordach i think you should read that article 00:30 erle especially since you are probably writing user-facing code 00:36 MTDiscord didn't know computer philosophy was a thing 00:38 MTDiscord Yeah, one is: make good tools and decent docs, the other is make the tool foolproof, and fire your customer service reps 00:38 MTDiscord seems #minetest-dev turned into #minetest 00:39 MTDiscord We, here in engine fall in the second category: volunteer customer service, and foolproof software that will have a bug every time 00:49 MTDiscord best of all, no one cares about the bugs 01:33 MTDiscord Hey, I resent that 01:33 MTDiscord I happen to be very fond of some bugs 01:36 MTDiscord I wish there was a bug that if you hit the end of the world it loops back around 01:40 erle you can probably do this with trickery 02:03 MTDiscord you can even make the boundary almost seamless 02:04 MTDiscord Donut world 02:04 MTDiscord Thankfully that title idea never caught on at Bungee. 03:28 MTDiscord 4 03:32 MTDiscord oops, ignore that... while I manage to delete the other garbage text when the cat ran through keyboard while I'm back-reading the channel, seem like the cat had press "4" and "enter" beforehand 07:18 sfan5 please reduce the amount of noise in here or I will mute the reponsible people 07:18 sfan5 including the entire discord bridge, if necessary 08:50 MTDiscord I'd rather you just ask us to mute people on our side, thanks. 22:01 Sokomine need help: latest git failes to compile for me in src/client/shader.cpp:43 file mt_opengl.h is missing. any ideas? 22:05 erle Sokomine first thing, is it a rebuild or a clean one? 22:07 Sokomine i did a "make clean" after i got that error and tried again. didn't help. i've used and git-pulled it for some time now 22:08 erle i'm buidling rn, might take a while 22:08 Sokomine thanks. i can sadly find no trace of mt_opengl.h anywhere so i'm asking 22:09 Desour it's in ittlichtmt. did you pull that too? 22:09 Sokomine yes, i did 22:10 Sokomine that is, lib/irrlicht 22:10 Desour lib/irrlichtmt for me 22:10 Desour (as in https://github.com/minetest/minetest#download) 22:12 Sokomine thank you. i still had lib/irrlicht and didn't see the attached mt 22:42 Sokomine thank you. that was it. didn't see the attached mt at the lib/irrlichtmt and wasn't aware that a header file might be created during compile