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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2022-02-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:43 MTDiscord <CartridgeZine> :thonxel:
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01:55 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. https://dev.minetest.net/ https://github.com/minetest
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14:25 kilbith @x2048 for me it's very simple; shaders enabled -> use OIT, otherwise fallback to the less efficient BSP-tree implementation
14:34 MTDiscord <luatic> kilbith: A BSP-tree implementation isn't necessarily less efficient; the main problem is that it can hardly get some cases right, especially with our mapblock meshgen (mapblock mesh vs. entity or particle sorting might require splitting the generated mesh).
14:36 kilbith not an expert but I believe that GPU does sorting more efficiently, we are too tied to CPU
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> not an expert either but I doubt that, considering that GPUs lack branching
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14:39 [GK]FrostDragon hi all
14:40 MTDiscord <luatic> this IRC is for engine dev
14:40 [GK]FrostDragon i have an issue
14:40 [GK]FrostDragon i want to reort it
14:40 MTDiscord <luatic> the efficient sorting algorithms I know that take O(n log n) all require branching
14:41 [GK]FrostDragon report*
14:41 MTDiscord <luatic> then do so on GitHub please, and do it immediately (don't ask to ask)
14:41 [GK]FrostDragon well i wanted to find out what was the best channel
14:41 MTDiscord <luatic> dev IRC is fine for bug reports
14:41 [GK]FrostDragon guthub? fine thx, that's what i came for
14:42 [GK]FrostDragon well to me this is a bug, but to you maybe not.. i am not a dev im not sure what constitutes a bug
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> kilbith: the OIT approach doesn't even sort, it just replaces the composition operator to be able to apply order-independent blending: "One approach to avoid the cost of storing and sorting primitives or fragments is to alter the compositing operator so that it is order independent, thus allowing a pure streaming approach."
14:43 [GK]FrostDragon i don't think github is the place for this issue either. it's not to do with the installation or the files. i'm talking about the game itself
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> Minetest Game?
14:44 [GK]FrostDragon well yes
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> There's a GH issue tracker for that too: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/new
14:45 MTDiscord <luatic> Feature requests etc. are also allowed (but extremely unlikely to get implemented and very likely to be closed).
14:45 [GK]FrostDragon yeah i don't think it's that kind of issue. can i talk to someone about the game pls? or can i report this to someone who is involved with the game or who will forward it to someone who is
14:45 MTDiscord <luatic> I am involved with the game.
14:45 [GK]FrostDragon ok i will pm you
14:46 MTDiscord <luatic> Where? You can't PM me through the bridge I believe.
14:50 rubenwardy You can ask here
14:58 MTDiscord <luatic> kilbith: Interesting, one of the authors seems to be working for roblox: "Morgan McGuire - Roblox & University of Waterloo"
14:59 kilbith I should be contributing to Roblox for real
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15:47 rubenwardy merging #12093 in 10
15:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12093 -- Fix broken dependency enabling due to missing `enabled` field by rubenwardy
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16:48 erlehmann kilbith thanks for the OIT pointers. it's really cool!
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17:44 kilbith @x2048 new PR: https://github.com/MultiCraft/MultiCraft2/pull/41
17:46 kilbith and ofc numberZero ignored appgurueu's comment on the OIT PR
17:46 kilbith he stopped collaborating with us
17:47 kilbith historically, those russians are not really willing to collaborate
17:48 kilbith they're either forking and making "hostile" moves from upstream
17:49 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> it's always the russians isn't it
17:52 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> also the fact multicraft upgraded their license to LGPLv3 so it's incompatible (?) with upstream minetest feels really scummy
17:53 kilbith that's only the top of the iceberg you know
17:53 erlehmann Sublayer plank no one forces minetest do stay LGPLv2+ instead of LGPLv3+
17:53 MTDiscord <Jonathon> no, the reason that they upgraded is to be "legal" in the appstore
17:53 erlehmann the appstore does not like old licensing?
17:53 MTDiscord <Jonathon> at least that is there view to the gpl and app store mess
17:53 MTDiscord <Jonathon> NAL
17:53 kilbith I can tell you that the Multicraft owner is hostile toward MT
17:53 kilbith c55 can certainly tell more
17:54 kilbith that was the same story with xyz and proller at the time
17:54 erlehmann yeah, but the licensing thing seems to have an easy workaround, unless minetest contains LGPLv2-only code (which would be a problem in itself)
17:54 erlehmann xyz and proller upgraded to LGPLv3 and that is why their contributions needed special approval afterwards to get into minetest proper?
17:55 kilbith to GPL
17:55 kilbith not LGPL
17:55 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> erlehmann: well true, nobody is forcing us to stay on LGPLv2.1... but wouldn't we need permission from every contributor to upgrade?
17:55 erlehmann not if it was licensed lgplv2+ from the start
17:56 erlehmann > LGPL (version 2.1 or later)
17:57 erlehmann sublayer plank you only need to get permission if you do something that goes contrary to the “or later”-suggestion by the FSF
17:57 kilbith anyway that's BS to think that MultiCraft can sue MT, this is not in their interest and there's no benefit to get from that
17:57 erlehmann in fact, linus torvalds put a doo doo into his licensing info by doing this GPLv2-only thing
17:57 erlehmann kilbith debian or others would care for compliance reasons
17:58 kilbith 0.1% of our userbase, sure
17:58 kilbith if not less
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18:00 kilbith MultiCraft is a rogue "company", not even paying their workers legally
18:01 erlehmann kilbith wdym, tax evasion?
18:01 kilbith it's all under the table
18:01 erlehmann oh, tax evasion
18:01 kilbith sure, MoNTE48 have to leave from place to place in Europe and now in Cypprus to evade taxes
18:01 erlehmann well, if you wanna take them down and have inside info, ig you can snitch
18:01 erlehmann lol
18:01 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> uh oh
18:01 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> lol
18:02 kilbith and he has no allowed to get back in Ukraine (its home country) anymore
18:02 kilbith as I said, you only see the top of the icebarg
18:02 erlehmann rubenwardy, i saw you added one approval, but it's not your own approval, right? just a cleanup? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12089
18:03 erlehmann kilbith arguably, it's a bad place to be anyway as of … about this morning or so :(
18:05 kilbith what you don't know also is that some Minetest core-devs have profited of this system without letting the community know about that
18:07 erlehmann well, you can surerly write an article on that if you think it is important
18:08 kilbith no, I'll let them speak about that on their initiative until I get pissed off
18:10 erlehmann ah, you keep it as kompromat?
18:11 erlehmann doesn't make you seem *nice*, but i already know you do not care about that hehe
18:12 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> oh a conspiracy?
18:13 kilbith I do still have all the logs and screen captures
18:14 kilbith I've been working with MultiCraft during 6 months and been on daily contact with MoNTE48
18:14 erlehmann would be wise to have good backups ig
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18:15 definitelya_ c:
18:17 definitelya_ Interesting... I'll go back to trying to install Arch now.
18:32 definitelya_ hmm that makes me sound a bit pathetic, sorry it's an anxious day for all right?
18:34 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> every day is an arch installation day
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