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MTDiscord |
<CartridgeZine> :thonxel: |
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Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. https://dev.minetest.net/ https://github.com/minetest |
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| 14:25 |
kilbith |
@x2048 for me it's very simple; shaders enabled -> use OIT, otherwise fallback to the less efficient BSP-tree implementation |
| 14:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> kilbith: A BSP-tree implementation isn't necessarily less efficient; the main problem is that it can hardly get some cases right, especially with our mapblock meshgen (mapblock mesh vs. entity or particle sorting might require splitting the generated mesh). |
| 14:36 |
kilbith |
not an expert but I believe that GPU does sorting more efficiently, we are too tied to CPU |
| 14:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> not an expert either but I doubt that, considering that GPUs lack branching |
| 14:39 |
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| 14:39 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
hi all |
| 14:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> this IRC is for engine dev |
| 14:40 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
i have an issue |
| 14:40 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
i want to reort it |
| 14:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the efficient sorting algorithms I know that take O(n log n) all require branching |
| 14:41 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
report* |
| 14:41 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> then do so on GitHub please, and do it immediately (don't ask to ask) |
| 14:41 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
well i wanted to find out what was the best channel |
| 14:41 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> dev IRC is fine for bug reports |
| 14:41 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
guthub? fine thx, that's what i came for |
| 14:42 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
well to me this is a bug, but to you maybe not.. i am not a dev im not sure what constitutes a bug |
| 14:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> kilbith: the OIT approach doesn't even sort, it just replaces the composition operator to be able to apply order-independent blending: "One approach to avoid the cost of storing and sorting primitives or fragments is to alter the compositing operator so that it is order independent, thus allowing a pure streaming approach." |
| 14:43 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
i don't think github is the place for this issue either. it's not to do with the installation or the files. i'm talking about the game itself |
| 14:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Minetest Game? |
| 14:44 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
well yes |
| 14:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> There's a GH issue tracker for that too: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/new |
| 14:45 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Feature requests etc. are also allowed (but extremely unlikely to get implemented and very likely to be closed). |
| 14:45 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
yeah i don't think it's that kind of issue. can i talk to someone about the game pls? or can i report this to someone who is involved with the game or who will forward it to someone who is |
| 14:45 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I am involved with the game. |
| 14:45 |
[GK]FrostDragon |
ok i will pm you |
| 14:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Where? You can't PM me through the bridge I believe. |
| 14:50 |
rubenwardy |
You can ask here |
| 14:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> kilbith: Interesting, one of the authors seems to be working for roblox: "Morgan McGuire - Roblox & University of Waterloo" |
| 14:59 |
kilbith |
I should be contributing to Roblox for real |
| 15:03 |
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| 15:47 |
rubenwardy |
merging #12093 in 10 |
| 15:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12093 -- Fix broken dependency enabling due to missing `enabled` field by rubenwardy |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:48 |
erlehmann |
kilbith thanks for the OIT pointers. it's really cool! |
| 17:21 |
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| 17:44 |
kilbith |
@x2048 new PR: https://github.com/MultiCraft/MultiCraft2/pull/41 |
| 17:46 |
kilbith |
and ofc numberZero ignored appgurueu's comment on the OIT PR |
| 17:46 |
kilbith |
he stopped collaborating with us |
| 17:47 |
kilbith |
historically, those russians are not really willing to collaborate |
| 17:48 |
kilbith |
they're either forking and making "hostile" moves from upstream |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> it's always the russians isn't it |
| 17:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> also the fact multicraft upgraded their license to LGPLv3 so it's incompatible (?) with upstream minetest feels really scummy |
| 17:53 |
kilbith |
that's only the top of the iceberg you know |
| 17:53 |
erlehmann |
Sublayer plank no one forces minetest do stay LGPLv2+ instead of LGPLv3+ |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> no, the reason that they upgraded is to be "legal" in the appstore |
| 17:53 |
erlehmann |
the appstore does not like old licensing? |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> at least that is there view to the gpl and app store mess |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> NAL |
| 17:53 |
kilbith |
I can tell you that the Multicraft owner is hostile toward MT |
| 17:53 |
kilbith |
c55 can certainly tell more |
| 17:54 |
kilbith |
that was the same story with xyz and proller at the time |
| 17:54 |
erlehmann |
yeah, but the licensing thing seems to have an easy workaround, unless minetest contains LGPLv2-only code (which would be a problem in itself) |
| 17:54 |
erlehmann |
xyz and proller upgraded to LGPLv3 and that is why their contributions needed special approval afterwards to get into minetest proper? |
| 17:55 |
kilbith |
to GPL |
| 17:55 |
kilbith |
not LGPL |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> erlehmann: well true, nobody is forcing us to stay on LGPLv2.1... but wouldn't we need permission from every contributor to upgrade? |
| 17:55 |
erlehmann |
not if it was licensed lgplv2+ from the start |
| 17:56 |
erlehmann |
> LGPL (version 2.1 or later) |
| 17:57 |
erlehmann |
sublayer plank you only need to get permission if you do something that goes contrary to the “or later”-suggestion by the FSF |
| 17:57 |
kilbith |
anyway that's BS to think that MultiCraft can sue MT, this is not in their interest and there's no benefit to get from that |
| 17:57 |
erlehmann |
in fact, linus torvalds put a doo doo into his licensing info by doing this GPLv2-only thing |
| 17:57 |
erlehmann |
kilbith debian or others would care for compliance reasons |
| 17:58 |
kilbith |
0.1% of our userbase, sure |
| 17:58 |
kilbith |
if not less |
| 17:58 |
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| 18:00 |
kilbith |
MultiCraft is a rogue "company", not even paying their workers legally |
| 18:01 |
erlehmann |
kilbith wdym, tax evasion? |
| 18:01 |
kilbith |
it's all under the table |
| 18:01 |
erlehmann |
oh, tax evasion |
| 18:01 |
kilbith |
sure, MoNTE48 have to leave from place to place in Europe and now in Cypprus to evade taxes |
| 18:01 |
erlehmann |
well, if you wanna take them down and have inside info, ig you can snitch |
| 18:01 |
erlehmann |
lol |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> uh oh |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> lol |
| 18:02 |
kilbith |
and he has no allowed to get back in Ukraine (its home country) anymore |
| 18:02 |
kilbith |
as I said, you only see the top of the icebarg |
| 18:02 |
erlehmann |
rubenwardy, i saw you added one approval, but it's not your own approval, right? just a cleanup? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12089 |
| 18:03 |
erlehmann |
kilbith arguably, it's a bad place to be anyway as of … about this morning or so :( |
| 18:05 |
kilbith |
what you don't know also is that some Minetest core-devs have profited of this system without letting the community know about that |
| 18:07 |
erlehmann |
well, you can surerly write an article on that if you think it is important |
| 18:08 |
kilbith |
no, I'll let them speak about that on their initiative until I get pissed off |
| 18:10 |
erlehmann |
ah, you keep it as kompromat? |
| 18:11 |
erlehmann |
doesn't make you seem *nice*, but i already know you do not care about that hehe |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> oh a conspiracy? |
| 18:13 |
kilbith |
I do still have all the logs and screen captures |
| 18:14 |
kilbith |
I've been working with MultiCraft during 6 months and been on daily contact with MoNTE48 |
| 18:14 |
erlehmann |
would be wise to have good backups ig |
| 18:15 |
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definitelya_ |
c: |
| 18:17 |
definitelya_ |
Interesting... I'll go back to trying to install Arch now. |
| 18:32 |
definitelya_ |
hmm that makes me sound a bit pathetic, sorry it's an anxious day for all right? |
| 18:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> every day is an arch installation day |
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