| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:20 |
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| 01:33 |
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| 02:02 |
kilbith |
FPS is surprisingly low on Win 11: https://i.imgur.com/z05T5Ix.png |
| 02:02 |
kilbith |
this is running at 60 FPS on Linux with the same settings |
| 02:02 |
kilbith |
I don't remember it was so low before on Win 11 |
| 02:02 |
kilbith |
looks like a regression |
| 02:12 |
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| 13:21 |
proller |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11843 - just types rename... |
| 13:22 |
proller |
celeron55, say something plz |
| 13:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> does it still crash when getting close to the world border? |
| 13:27 |
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| 13:32 |
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| 13:47 |
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| 13:58 |
kilbith |
man that elhermann is fo fucking energy-draining... |
| 13:58 |
kilbith |
what's up with the germans arguing over and over |
| 13:59 |
nrz |
win11 has many regression, like NVMe if used as system disk, they are 10 timers slower than expected |
| 13:59 |
nrz |
win11 beta released ? |
| 14:00 |
kilbith |
what the hell are you talking about |
| 14:00 |
kilbith |
win11 is not beta for one |
| 14:00 |
nrz |
i answer to your win11 perf ici |
| 14:00 |
nrz |
issue |
| 14:01 |
kilbith |
and it's actually more optimized than win10; I use it daily |
| 14:01 |
nrz |
win11 is just not polished, they are many performance regression after upgrade for many users |
| 14:01 |
nrz |
i'm using arch daily no upgrade issue since 12 years : |
| 14:01 |
kilbith |
do you use it on daily basis with recent builds? |
| 14:01 |
nrz |
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/q2hog8/windows_11_users_suffering_from_performance/ |
| 14:02 |
nrz |
archlinux ? yeah i use it daily since 12 years |
| 14:02 |
nrz |
windows ? no i don't use that shit for noobs |
| 14:02 |
kilbith |
2 months ago it was still beta |
| 14:03 |
kilbith |
typical non sequitur from nrz |
| 14:03 |
sfan5 |
it might not be in beta but performance issues were in the news for sure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 14:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> ever since windows 10 released and start rolling out feature updates for it they've realized they can ship unfinished untested garbage onto their users with little to no repercussions |
| 14:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> because eh, they can always fix it sometime later right? |
| 14:05 |
kilbith |
btw, all my Steam library actually run better on Win11 than Linux |
| 14:05 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> I would expect nerzhul to use FreeBSD XD |
| 14:06 |
kilbith |
it's just than MT/irr is not optimized for Windows because devs don't dog-food on it |
| 14:07 |
kilbith |
*that |
| 14:07 |
nrz |
savilli, you are young minetest contributor ? do you know i ported MT to FreeBSD ports and i have 2 freebsd boxes at home ? ? |
| 14:07 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> I can guess that |
| 14:08 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> But you don't use FreeBSD as a main os? |
| 14:08 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> That's a crime |
| 14:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> kilbith: well apologies that nobody wants to have to deal with windows beyond the bare minimum |
| 14:09 |
sfan5 |
windows is pretty okay, try using macOS |
| 14:09 |
kilbith |
linux desktop just doesn't cut it on modern hardware |
| 14:09 |
kilbith |
bad scaling, kernel crashes, lack of polishes |
| 14:09 |
kilbith |
-es |
| 14:10 |
kilbith |
and I lose -10 FPS on Factorio, Portal 2, etc. |
| 14:11 |
nrz |
strange i run my linux 12h at least per day since 12 years without having any crash |
| 14:11 |
nrz |
and i run cyberpunk 2077 in ultra mode at 100 fps |
| 14:11 |
nrz |
and i run cyberpunk 2077 in ultra mode at 100 fps on steam + proton + dxvk |
| 14:11 |
kilbith |
you'd get 150 FPS on windows |
| 14:11 |
nrz |
i don't care about the 50 missing |
| 14:11 |
nrz |
it's just dick |
| 14:12 |
nrz |
120 is sufficient, more is just energy consumption and doesn't offer more comfort ? |
| 14:12 |
nrz |
anyway let's return back to MT: sfan5 i merged 2 PR |
| 14:13 |
sfan5 |
sure thx |
| 14:13 |
sfan5 |
there's a few issues that need fixes for 5.5 but none of them are simple |
| 14:15 |
nrz |
i miss time to develop in C++ since too long time |
| 14:15 |
nrz |
and i don't know how we can fix our code without rewriting major parts. Many parts are just card castles ? |
| 14:16 |
sfan5 |
(#11437 and #11775) |
| 14:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11437 -- `3d_mode` is broken |
| 14:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11775 -- New handling of direction key bits is not fully backwards-compatible |
| 14:18 |
|
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| 14:19 |
kilbith |
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=alderlake-windows-linux&num=9 |
| 14:19 |
kilbith |
ouch linux |
| 14:19 |
kilbith |
btw hecks uses windows too |
| 14:19 |
kilbith |
john carmack too |
| 14:19 |
nrz |
arf i don't have 3d rendering thing and i don't have joystick |
| 14:19 |
kilbith |
that's for a reason |
| 14:19 |
nrz |
kilbith stop that i don't care i'm not a sheep |
| 14:20 |
nrz |
i think we have sufficient OS nowadays to make everyone happy, you want to run on NetBSD or on Windws 98, it's your problem not mine |
| 14:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> windows 11 only really works best on latest intel processors because thats all they cared about in dev, everything it ends up sucking on in one shape or another |
| 14:20 |
nrz |
windows performs well until you put a fucking antivirus which is mandatory on an os with so many holes |
| 14:20 |
kilbith |
wrong |
| 14:21 |
kilbith |
there's no need for that on win10/11 |
| 14:21 |
nrz |
and yeah it's just a benchmark on interl, like anybenchmark the conditions are not the whole cases |
| 14:21 |
kilbith |
and you are brainwashed |
| 14:21 |
nrz |
you have windows defender |
| 14:22 |
nrz |
honestly i don't care about you anymore kilbith, the older you are the stupider you are. |
| 14:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> have to agree with kilbith, win 10, 11, no need for antivirus for most users |
| 14:22 |
nrz |
we are talking about how to release MT 5.5 here |
| 14:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> previous versions you did need one |
| 14:22 |
nrz |
yeah no A/V it's why many people are cryptolocked by noobs. |
| 14:22 |
kilbith |
and your english still didn't improve in 7 years |
| 14:22 |
kilbith |
tells a lot about your IQ |
| 14:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anyways, regarding 5.5, and windows, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11832#issuecomment-994316196 this issue is very annoying to windows users and would be nice to see it resolved for 5.5 |
| 14:23 |
nrz |
at least i don't need to rage like a kid on a channel because no-one cares about my PR because i want like a baby to be managed instanly |
| 14:23 |
sfan5 |
this conversation doesn't seem very productive |
| 14:24 |
nrz |
sfan5 i agree, i just wanted to talk a bout 5.5 before being interrupted for stupid debates |
| 14:24 |
nrz |
is anyone we know be able to look for joystick (with some hardware) or 3d mode ? what happen if we revert the commits ? |
| 14:26 |
sfan5 |
3d_mode is caused by the switch to irrlicht 1.9, can't be reverted |
| 14:26 |
sfan5 |
the joystick change could be reverted but that is definitely not necessary |
| 14:27 |
sfan5 |
@Jonathon can you post the entire debug.txt for a session where this happens? |
| 14:28 |
nrz |
just to be sure, it's the first or the second release we do with our shiny new irrlicht ? |
| 14:28 |
nrz |
maybe more, i can be late ? |
| 14:29 |
sfan5 |
would be the first |
| 14:29 |
sfan5 |
@Jonathon nvm I might not need that after all but if you have it please keep it ready |
| 14:35 |
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| 14:36 |
nrz |
such big step |
| 14:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Sfan5 ok |
| 14:39 |
sfan5 |
pushing http://sprunge.us/YQBYkv?diff in 7m |
| 14:42 |
nrz |
wow, this is a bit tricky, it shows a strange design in our API, how a valid object can be empty like this whereas it's a ref for something existing ? |
| 14:56 |
sfan5 |
@Jonathon okay yes, debug.txt please |
| 15:26 |
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| 15:43 |
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| 15:44 |
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| 16:02 |
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| 16:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> kilbith: Ever heard of the term "Wintel alliance"? |
| 16:35 |
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| 17:15 |
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| 17:21 |
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| 17:30 |
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| 17:32 |
erlehmann |
kilbith is so unfrendly, can we replace with ymmv? https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2021-12-15#i_5909058 |
| 17:35 |
erlehmann |
Krock nrz rubenwardy sofar anyone of you interested in talking about minetest.find_nodes_in_area() with me? in particular about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11858 … maybe? it is a very simple fix. |
| 17:35 |
erlehmann |
i promise to find a new crash in response! |
| 17:35 |
erlehmann |
(give me a few minutes, i have an idea) |
| 17:55 |
nrz |
please be concise and propose a patch ? ? |
| 17:58 |
erlehmann |
nrz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11858 is the patch |
| 17:58 |
erlehmann |
nrz oh sorry, wrong page. here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11858/files |
| 18:01 |
erlehmann |
nrz the summary is: the patch fixes the situation where a node can exist in the map but not be found by minetest.find_nodes_in_area() |
| 18:02 |
erlehmann |
(which affects basically every use of minetest.find_nodes_in_area() that can happen near the map border) |
| 18:03 |
erlehmann |
nrz, so are you interested? |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> sfan5: https://pastebin.com/dT0wFix3 |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> debug you requested |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
by "entire debug.txt" I meant the entire log, or did this happen the first time after opening the main menu? |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> no, ill delete it and replicate it, have a little bit of time now, else tonight |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> should i crank log level to verbose? |
| 18:21 |
nrz |
erlehmann: i think it's not the good solution because it's a wide macro, and it will permit OOB in some code parts |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> oh nice, just opened and got it to do it with verbose |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
first try? |
| 18:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yeah, typically doesnt happen on first try |
| 18:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://pastebin.com/5fuSiWDv burns in 10 minutes |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anything else you need for me? else ill be around in 4-5 ish hours |
| 18:27 |
erlehmann |
nrz where is the OOB here? have i missed something? |
| 18:27 |
nrz |
you extended the CLAMP range if i'm correct, it means you include more nodes by side effect in many clamp calls |
| 18:27 |
nrz |
that can have side effects |
| 18:28 |
erlehmann |
yes that is intended actually |
| 18:28 |
erlehmann |
since nodes can exist outside of MAX_MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT (obviously) |
| 18:30 |
erlehmann |
nrz what exactly do you want me to change about the patch so you will support it? |
| 18:30 |
nrz |
if you want to avoid a problem in get_node_in_radius, fix the call inside it, can you give me the crash you fixed ? |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anyways, afk for a while |
| 18:32 |
erlehmann |
nrz, sfan5 fixed the crash, but used the wrong boundary here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11770 the bug was https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11769 |
| 18:33 |
erlehmann |
nrz this lead to this bug (but really, it does not matter if the nodes are visible) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11828 |
| 18:34 |
erlehmann |
basically, minetest got a new buggy area between 31000 and 32767 and i want to eliminate it to avoid more bugs |
| 18:35 |
erlehmann |
oh yeah and it also breaks lua mapgen at world borders, which was kinda obvious at the time the change was introduced |
| 18:36 |
erlehmann |
(only if that lua mapgen uses minetest.find_nodes_in_area() and something bad happens if it can not find stuff) |
| 18:36 |
sfan5 |
so do lua mapgens generate further than ~30920? |
| 18:36 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:37 |
sfan5 |
I guess that's up to them but not sure since singlenode is also involved |
| 18:38 |
|
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| 18:38 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 yeah, of course? basically everything generates past 30920. |
| 18:40 |
|
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| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
I just started up a world with a Lua mapgen that fully replaces the engine one and it does not generate past 30920, what could this mean? |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
are you lying or just overconfident? |
| 18:42 |
sfan5 |
(30927 to be exact) |
| 18:48 |
sfan5 |
just to be sure I checked using minetestmapper and there's really nothing there |
| 18:53 |
sfan5 |
tested mapgen with chunksize = 1 too, doesn't go any further |
| 18:55 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 the problem is that you can emerge those areas, which is what more complex mapgens tend to do |
| 18:56 |
erlehmann |
i mean, the problem is that you can emerge the areas and then not find the stuff you placed in it |
| 18:56 |
erlehmann |
breaking emerge would not help here |
| 18:56 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 with chunksize=1 i can get to x=30992, you can not? |
| 18:57 |
erlehmann |
you may need to create a new world with that chunksize setting |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
ah yes, I checked the wrong file |
| 18:58 |
erlehmann |
regarding emerge, structure placing code does that |
| 18:58 |
erlehmann |
so imagine placing a structure near the boundaries |
| 18:59 |
sfan5 |
yep, chunksize=1 actually goes up to 30991 |
| 18:59 |
erlehmann |
now you can use worldedit to put nodes out there i believe |
| 19:00 |
erlehmann |
or rip nodes out of there |
| 19:00 |
erlehmann |
parts of worldedit probably use minetest.find_nodes_in_area() though, which is … unfortunate |
| 19:01 |
erlehmann |
in my experiments at the mapborder i have sometimes created situation where visiting a chunk would crash the server. if a griefer can arrange that, that would be awful. |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:03 |
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Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:04 |
sfan5 |
so if you have a game that places nodes beyond the limit where mapgen is supposed to end, whose fault is that again? |
| 19:04 |
erlehmann |
minetests fault |
| 19:05 |
sfan5 |
for allowing the game to place nodes there, right? |
| 19:05 |
erlehmann |
no, for having allowed it for a long time, then changing behaviour, breaking tons of stuff |
| 19:06 |
sfan5 |
I do not consider "must be able to place nodes beyond 31000" part of Minetest's compatibility promise |
| 19:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> There are issues for pushing stuff over mapgen border |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Typically abused with pistons to hide things |
| 19:08 |
erlehmann |
that is the visible border |
| 19:11 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 you can of course dig in your heels and say your faulty bugfix is totally cool but that will not make the map border less buggy. we both know that a map block is 16 nodes wide. and we both know you can access the invisible outer shell mapblock in vanilla minetest. so if you get up to x=30991 you must know that there is *at least* another area out there. |
| 19:12 |
erlehmann |
and 30991 + 16 is definitely over 31000. |
| 19:12 |
erlehmann |
people who crash servers do not particularly care about minetest's compatibility promise lol |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:13 |
erlehmann |
and people who hide lag machines also do not care. |
| 19:14 |
sfan5 |
erlehmann: raising the mapgen limit so it matches a full mapblock (31007) is a very good idea and should be done |
| 19:14 |
sfan5 |
but somehow I suspect you won't be happy with that |
| 19:14 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 it would definitely help in the short term. |
| 19:15 |
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| 19:16 |
erlehmann |
in particular, i would appreciate if mapgen limit was always snapped to full mapblocks |
| 19:18 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 i believe making the mapgen limit match a full mapblock will eliminate an entire category of bugs, because suddenly all those functions do not stop working in the middle of easily accessible areas. |
| 19:19 |
sfan5 |
I agree |
| 19:20 |
erlehmann |
i it might also make it more obvious why it is a bad idea to have mapgen and functions stop working at the same boundary, but i do not want to demotivate you. |
| 19:20 |
erlehmann |
it is a step in the right direction (less bugs) after all |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> The mood here is very tense. |
| 19:21 |
nrz |
is it possible that we stop the mapgen & boudaries check verifying we finish on a mapblock end ? |
| 19:25 |
erlehmann |
it is inadvisable to do so |
| 19:26 |
erlehmann |
or maybe i misunderstand you |
| 19:33 |
erlehmann |
nrz traditionally, the map generation limit works like this: minetest generates mapblocks up until MAX_MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT and the area beyond that contains at least one mapblock that is (normally) invisible to the client, i.e. gets never loaded, but is obviously there on the server. |
| 19:34 |
erlehmann |
this has been carefully engineered so that mods that account for unloaded areas get sane behaviour at the map border „for free“ |
| 19:59 |
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| 20:10 |
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| 20:28 |
kilbith |
alright so |
| 20:28 |
kilbith |
https://i.imgur.com/9XLD1oC.png |
| 20:28 |
kilbith |
there's something terribly wrong there |
| 20:29 |
kilbith |
drawtime of 2 ms. is not 40 FPS normally, so I assume it's capped |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:29 |
kilbith |
but why/where is it capped, I have nfi |
| 20:29 |
erlehmann |
kilbith, what's wrong with 40fps? |
| 20:30 |
erlehmann |
is it too low? |
| 20:31 |
kilbith |
are you seriously thinking that an Intel Iris Xe graphics cannot handle MT at 60 FPS? hell no |
| 20:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> is this on a laptop? |
| 20:31 |
kilbith |
I can run GTA 5 on 40 FPS with medium settings with that |
| 20:31 |
kilbith |
yes, Dell XPS with Intel i5 11th gen |
| 20:32 |
kilbith |
the very latest Dell XPS |
| 20:32 |
kilbith |
60 FPS equates to 16 ms. of drawtime |
| 20:32 |
kilbith |
and I have 2 ms. |
| 20:34 |
kilbith |
with dynamic shadows I get 4 ms. but the FPS is still capped at 40+ FPS |
| 20:35 |
erlehmann |
kilbith i had literally no idea what hardware you have |
| 20:36 |
Calinou |
check CPU and GPU usage, make sure either of them is not 100% used on a single core |
| 20:37 |
Calinou |
also, remember that laptops are heavily throttled on battery by default |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
also check if the driver has a settings panel and test if older MT versions are also affected |
| 20:37 |
Calinou |
this throttling can _mostly_ be disabled in the OS' power management settings, but it will cost you a lot of battery life (even when not gaming on battery) |
| 20:37 |
kilbith |
it's def not a hardware issue, otherwise the drawtime wouldn't be so low |
| 20:37 |
kilbith |
it is a software issue |
| 20:38 |
kilbith |
no matter if dynamic shadows are enabled or not, or if the draw distance is reduced to 20, it's capped at 40 FPS |
| 20:38 |
rubenwardy |
Dell XPS has a thermal throttling problem, you'd be able to tell though |
| 20:38 |
rubenwardy |
2ms drawtime is odd |
| 20:38 |
rubenwardy |
(I have a Dell XPS 13 (9370) from 2018) |
| 20:39 |
kilbith |
I have the 9305 |
| 20:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> I actually have the same issue on my school laptop where when not plugged in, minetest won't go anywhere above 40fps even though it probably should be able to. plugging it into the charger fixes the issue and it goes up to the 60fps limit |
| 20:39 |
Calinou |
check the Intel graphics driver control panel, it has power management options available |
| 20:39 |
Calinou |
I'm fairly sure there is a default FPS limiter by now |
| 20:40 |
kilbith |
Calinou: how do you explain it's capped at 60 FPS on Steam? |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> that was with the "full performance" profile when running off of the battery btw, no power saving |
| 20:41 |
kilbith |
there is something with Minetest or Irrlicht |
| 20:41 |
kilbith |
because the AAA games leave me go to 60 FPS |
| 20:43 |
kilbith |
2 ms. equates to 700+ FPS |
| 20:43 |
kilbith |
normally |
| 20:57 |
erlehmann |
kilbith which games do you have 700fps |
| 20:58 |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:05 |
nrz |
dd if=/dev/gpu of=/dev/null |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> hahaha |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> the best game |
| 21:08 |
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Pexin joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:08 |
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| 21:09 |
kilbith |
j'en connais un qui va prendre une rouste sur Paris |
| 21:09 |
kilbith |
oops |
| 21:10 |
erlehmann |
haha you can not even englishing |
| 21:11 |
erlehmann |
tells a lot about your IQ |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> If we're fair, "can not even englishing" is a weird way to english. |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> It is.. irony |
| 21:18 |
nrz |
he says a non sense thing, he thinks i'm located in paris, but no ? |
| 21:19 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi i was of jokings because kilbith has been rude earlier https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2021-12-15#i_5909058 |
| 21:20 |
erlehmann |
hi, i'm joe king |
| 21:20 |
erlehmann |
(pilot for hire) |
| 22:49 |
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| 23:07 |
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| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> What the hell is happening in here today? |
| 23:33 |
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