| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:17 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Why can't I get more than 20 FPS on an Inspiron that's probably newer, I wonder. |
| 00:22 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi ofc i have tweaked settings |
| 00:28 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I'd be interested in which settings to tweak. |
| 00:29 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> minetest-irc channel though |
| 00:34 |
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| 00:58 |
erlehmann |
there exist a bunch of unit tests that seem to run into errors and still claim to pass |
| 00:59 |
erlehmann |
like take test_index_v3s16_all_pos |
| 00:59 |
erlehmann |
ubsan says src/voxel.h:270:51: runtime error: signed integer overflow: -20442400 * -902 cannot be represented in type 'int' |
| 01:00 |
erlehmann |
i don't think the test should pass under the circumstances |
| 01:00 |
erlehmann |
even if the asserts are ok |
| 01:00 |
erlehmann |
the network null pointer thing also shows up if you run the unit tests with ubsan |
| 01:18 |
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| 01:36 |
erlehmann |
Krock are my recent attempts to break devtest “actual game issues” for you? |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
is the submitter of this seriously mistaken about on_drop handling or am i? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11818 |
| 02:43 |
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| 03:17 |
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| 03:28 |
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| 03:52 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:13 |
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| 05:28 |
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| 07:16 |
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| 08:27 |
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| 09:54 |
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| 10:30 |
erlehmann |
i am extremely frustrated with the abysmal build system structure and the fact that there are still no git submodules. anyone interested in collaborating on making a separate repository that contains all the same stuff but a) a different build system that is not totally broken (redo) b) dependencies as git submodules? |
| 10:31 |
erlehmann |
i could continuously rebase that on the minetest master, but i doubt it makes much sense if i am the only one interested in it |
| 10:32 |
erlehmann |
well, not sure if rebase would cut it, but i'd basically want to take all the features, just replace the build system and how the source is handled. |
| 10:32 |
erlehmann |
then try to keep it up to date |
| 10:37 |
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| 10:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> how is the current build system bad? |
| 10:50 |
erlehmann |
Sublayer plank i opened an issue some time ago when i noticed that *some* incremental builds were not producing correct binaries, it contains a long explanation: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11749 TL;DR: the only way to get a somewhat reliable build right now is to rebuild absolutely everything from scratch, every time. |
| 10:52 |
erlehmann |
also sfan5 explained some time back one reason why appgurueu und me continue running into bisection problems, the current build system literally *can't* handle going back to a previous revision … unless you rebuild everything from scratch, which is why i haven't opened a separate issue for it. |
| 10:55 |
erlehmann |
the thing is, i have written a build system myself and know how to solve this in probably only a few hundred lines of code. but my solution involves applying a different paradigm to the build: instead of figuring out before what you want to build, topologically sort it, then hope for the best – i collect information during or after the build. i will trace the compiler syscalls if necessary, but usually there exist bette |
| 10:55 |
erlehmann |
r (read: faster) methods. |
| 10:55 |
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| 10:56 |
erlehmann |
i.e. whatever solves this is not only not compatible with cmake in theory, i have seen someone who knew much more than me about cmake try to make cmake work like it and fail |
| 10:56 |
erlehmann |
(i barely know anything about cmake beyond “it does not work”, you have to ask josiah_wi for details) |
| 10:58 |
erlehmann |
sublayer plank, if you are interested in the technical side, check out the game liberation circuit and build it. |
| 10:58 |
erlehmann |
the build uses some clever tricks that minetest could also have (but not if cmake is used) |
| 10:59 |
erlehmann |
disclaimer: ofc i am biased bc a bunch of those tricks (but not all of them) were implemented by me. |
| 11:02 |
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| 11:17 |
sfan5 |
we're not changing our build system for this |
| 11:19 |
erlehmann |
sfan5, yeah i totally expected that, which is why i asked who is interested as doing this separately |
| 11:20 |
erlehmann |
seriously, it is hard to imagine a build system that's worse than the current one and still mostly works |
| 11:20 |
erlehmann |
i guess it's like the particle situation “we couldn't make this worse if we tried” |
| 11:23 |
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| 11:34 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Commercial build systems can are are far worse than ours |
| 11:35 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> The fact that I can do it in under ten minutes on windows is impressive. You have no idea how convoluted build systems from even 5 years ago are. |
| 11:50 |
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| 11:52 |
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| 12:14 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 12:50 |
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| 13:09 |
erlehmann |
exe_virus ok i take it back, it could be worse. it could download dependencies during the build. |
| 13:09 |
erlehmann |
<sfan5> we're not changing our build system for this |
| 13:09 |
erlehmann |
why |
| 13:09 |
erlehmann |
like, i'm not saying do it |
| 13:10 |
erlehmann |
but i'd like to know what you love so much about the thing that you want to keep it while usually stuff that does not make sense is kicked out of minetest even if it worked before if it has better alternatives and doesn't break too much |
| 13:10 |
erlehmann |
“it works |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
” can't be it, because it doesn't, reliably |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
also you told me once in a ticket that you have no idea how to actually track dependencies that aren't tracked, so it can't be domain expertise with cmake |
| 13:12 |
sfan5 |
the cost-benefit ratio is off |
| 13:12 |
erlehmann |
(which would be a good reason btw, keeping a system whose pitfalls you know can be better than having someone where you have no idea) |
| 13:13 |
erlehmann |
what cost? adding an additional build system costs *you* nothing. it only needs to be implemented once. |
| 13:15 |
erlehmann |
the benefit would be: faster build times, actually working incremental builds, working bisect, ppl stop having these ridiculous wrong binaries |
| 13:15 |
erlehmann |
oh and i'd ofc keep it simple enough so that adding deps is not black magicks |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
no implementation cost? no maintenance cost? no support costs? |
| 13:16 |
erlehmann |
also i can plot the dep tree in dot and stuff |
| 13:16 |
sfan5 |
you should aim for a nobel prize with things like this, not improve a random block game |
| 13:17 |
erlehmann |
what if i offer to do the task |
| 13:18 |
sfan5 |
use your brain to answer that question considering all available information |
| 13:18 |
erlehmann |
i actually *have* written a build system that is faster, smaller and more reliable than make, in 2014. that task also involved a lot of reading about previous work and using other build systems, before i even started. |
| 13:20 |
erlehmann |
well my brain tells me “sfan5 is being dismissive and sarcastic about the topic of build systems to a domain expert who offered to do work for free (me)” |
| 13:20 |
erlehmann |
look, i get it, i'm not getting an answer out of ppl who are “think about it, you'll get to it yourself” if i ask them about their opinion |
| 13:21 |
erlehmann |
i can't read minds |
| 13:21 |
erlehmann |
and “think about it, you'll get to it yourself” works only for stuff that is objective. like if i tell you there is a backdoor in minetest 5.3 that was accidentally fixed, you can probably find it if you go looking for it (would be useless to look for it though). |
| 13:22 |
erlehmann |
well, backdoor. a vulnerability. |
| 13:22 |
erlehmann |
wrong choice of words. |
| 13:22 |
erlehmann |
whatever |
| 13:22 |
erlehmann |
this is not helping |
| 13:22 |
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| 13:22 |
sfan5 |
stop leaving before I can answer, fucker |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
I highlighted three problems in my answer, you answered "what if I solve one of them" |
| 13:24 |
sfan5 |
I don't know if you are dumb but if you are smart enough to write a build system I bet you are smart enough to understand a simple argument |
| 13:24 |
sfan5 |
regardless, please stop wasting the time of me and everyone who is reading this chat |
| 13:32 |
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| 14:53 |
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| 15:14 |
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| 15:15 |
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| 15:43 |
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| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it appears the github ci is stuck still |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:05 |
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| 17:09 |
Fleckenstein |
Do lbms with run_at_every_load = true run after a new block was generated? |
| 17:19 |
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| 17:20 |
sfan5 |
I'd say not but should be easy to test |
| 17:48 |
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| 18:14 |
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| 18:24 |
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| 18:50 |
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| 19:17 |
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| 19:43 |
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| 20:43 |
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| 20:58 |
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| 21:16 |
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| 21:17 |
v-rob |
sfan5: #11821 - better a day late than never |
| 21:17 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11821 -- Add padding[] element to formspecs by v-rob |
| 21:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> thanks vrob |
| 21:22 |
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| 21:26 |
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| 21:36 |
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| 21:45 |
sfan5 |
thanks |
| 21:50 |
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| 22:03 |
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