| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 02:09 |
|
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| 02:42 |
v-rob |
Oh gee whiz, Irrlicht doesn't even have keycodes for some keyboard things so we have to hack around it in KeyPress. |
| 02:42 |
v-rob |
I really don't want to touch the keycode names for fear of breaking anything. |
| 02:42 |
v-rob |
Ugh |
| 04:05 |
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| 04:16 |
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| 04:26 |
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| 05:39 |
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| 06:05 |
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| 07:07 |
sfan5 |
which "keyboard things" would that be? |
| 08:10 |
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| 08:51 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> specing, AFAIK you cannot just change the license of MT since every single contributor ever would need to agree to it first...that's what a core dev once said |
| 08:53 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> Unless you were talking about a license that is directly compatible with LGPL...not sure there |
| 08:57 |
specing |
Yes, GPL would, upon linking, overrule the LGPL |
| 08:58 |
specing |
and the whole would become GPL |
| 08:58 |
specing |
I think... |
| 09:03 |
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| 09:07 |
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| 09:25 |
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| 09:28 |
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| 10:15 |
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| 11:52 |
pgimeno |
yes, the LGPL has provisions for relicensing as GPL specifically, but it's not a change I as a user would like |
| 13:00 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios#contribution-guidelines--license |
| 13:00 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios/blob/master/COPYING.iOS |
| 13:00 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> It looks like GPL applications can actually be available on the AppStore |
| 13:00 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> (https://github.com/audacity/audacity/discussions/932#discussioncomment-781558) |
| 13:08 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> ironic that the last link is from discussion on one of the most disastrous software, that spun so many forks when the disaster happened |
| 13:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> GPL apps cannot be on the app store. NextCloud is not GPL, it's dual-license. |
| 13:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's distributed under either the terms of the GPL, or under GPL plus the App Store exception. |
| 13:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Minetest can make a similar promise not to enforce the GPL specifically against the App Store, but it does not have the power to make that promise on behalf of each individual contributor. |
| 13:13 |
specing |
What's the apple hostility against the GPL about? |
| 13:14 |
specing |
Also, my fork of MT is AGPLv3 |
| 13:14 |
specing |
Apple can go suck it |
| 13:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> bullshit |
| 13:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-adblock-privacy/id1047223162 / https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdguardForiOS |
| 13:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's GPL-3 |
| 13:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> In that case, feel free to report them. |
| 13:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> unfortunately that's a 10 year old joke that needs to rightfully get fucked |
| 13:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> GPL is fine |
| 13:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, that damn license is so hard to dig through, it makes it hard to find out who actually owns the copyright... |
| 13:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> COPYING already proves it's under GPL |
| 13:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It looks like they don't have any transparency about how to become a code contributor. It's sort of a closed team. That means we don't know what kind of CLA-type agreements are involved in contributing code to the core. |
| 13:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> That means we can't be certain it's purely GPL. They can very easily have a dual license setup. |
| 13:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i doubt there's a CLA involved, see audacity on how to fuck that up |
| 13:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> second the acknowledgements page in app links to all the GPL / oss licenses used in libraries |
| 13:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios is even GPL3 |
| 13:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Like I said, report them if you'd like. It's not really relevant to MT licensing discussions, or really to MT dev in general. |
| 13:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it means there really isn't any issue deploying to the App Store |
| 13:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> ? NextCloud iOS is not GPL, says right at https://github.com/nextcloud/ios#contribution-guidelines--license, and this was mentioned right at the beginning. PLEASE try to follow along with the discussion before calling bullshit on anything. |
| 13:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> we already do that in Minetest for new files |
| 13:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> clouds.h, skyparams.h and other class headers |
| 13:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, that's fine. |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> we only need this boilerplate and we're fine |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios/blob/master/COPYING.iOS |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, I've considered MIT-licensing my contributions. At the very least, I'd relicense them if I were to publish them separately. |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> And as previously mentioned, yes, that boilerplate would work fine, but you'd have a hard time getting it ratified. |
| 13:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Especially since some past contributors are no longer even with us and their ownership of the copyrights to their contributions have been inherited and you'd have to get them to understand and accept those terms. |
| 13:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> at the end of the day as long as people aren't using the IAP laden semi-closed forks |
| 13:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> is it really a conscious problem |
| 13:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Kimapr> isn't it illegal to impose additional restrictions on GPL'ed software? |
| 13:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> MT forks that are in the App store are already in violation of the GPL, the MT devs just don't have the time/energy to chase after them constantly. |
| 13:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Kimapr> (also, does the discord reply feature work over the bridge?) |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think replies only send the text, not which message you're replying to. |
| 13:55 |
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| 13:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Kimapr> that's pretty bad (test) |
| 13:56 |
Kimapr |
yep, doesn't even include the name of the person who i replied to |
| 14:14 |
sfan5 |
Krock: how much would you mind if bitmap fonts stopped working? |
| 14:14 |
rubenwardy |
can you still do bitmap fonts using freetype? |
| 14:14 |
rubenwardy |
for a voxel game, seems fairly important to allow pixel fonts |
| 14:15 |
sfan5 |
"pixel" != bitmap |
| 14:15 |
sfan5 |
pixel fonts are doable anyway |
| 14:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> there exists a TTF version of the MC font |
| 14:16 |
sfan5 |
by bitmap fonts here I mean -DENABLE_FREETYPE=0 which nobody has been using seriously in years |
| 14:16 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, removing support for no freetype makes sense to me |
| 14:17 |
rubenwardy |
I believe that's required for colored chat |
| 14:17 |
sfan5 |
it is |
| 14:17 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> remove support for no freetype |
| 14:18 |
rubenwardy |
[Delete] ? |
| 14:19 |
sfan5 |
the context here is that I want to delete all XML code from irrmt but the png fonts we ship have an xml file |
| 14:19 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> PNG fonts? |
| 14:19 |
rubenwardy |
yeah I remember this discussion |
| 14:19 |
rubenwardy |
appguru: bitmap fonts, for non-freetype |
| 14:19 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> I saw them, but have never really seen them in use |
| 14:19 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> (saw them as files) |
| 14:35 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I'd like to get a second approval for #11287! |
| 14:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11287 -- Take advantage of IrrlichtMt target by JosiahWI |
| 14:49 |
sfan5 |
> Drop XML implementation, related code and dependent features |
| 14:49 |
sfan5 |
> 49 files changed, 10 insertions(+), 13412 deletions(-) |
| 14:49 |
sfan5 |
*grin* |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
that's such a nice ratio |
| 14:54 |
specing |
irrlicht had its own implementation of XML? |
| 14:54 |
sfan5 |
of course |
| 14:55 |
specing |
lol |
| 14:56 |
rubenwardy |
sounds about right |
| 14:56 |
sfan5 |
it's honestly not that bad if you need a subset and not a spec-compliant implementation, allows you to avoid security issues e.g. libxml2 is plagued with |
| 15:39 |
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| 15:48 |
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| 17:14 |
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| 17:54 |
celeron55_ |
that's one way of going about getting rid of irrlicht... |
| 17:54 |
|
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| 17:54 |
celeron55_ |
just delete it piece by piece |
| 18:03 |
sfan5 |
@appguru it's always possible to fix a branch by force pushing, no need to open a new pr |
| 18:03 |
sfan5 |
if you have git questions I can help |
| 18:03 |
appguru |
I tried force pushing |
| 18:03 |
appguru |
And I reset my master branch |
| 18:03 |
appguru |
Unfortunately, I had origin set to my fork |
| 18:03 |
appguru |
Sorry for the commotion |
| 18:04 |
appguru |
I couldn't really find a way to get the commits I accidentally did on my master branch out of there though |
| 18:05 |
appguru |
So I wanted to just delete & restore the branch, but the deletion closed the PR, and the restoring didn't reopen it... |
| 18:05 |
celeron55_ |
git reset --hard HEAD~3; git push -f |
| 18:05 |
celeron55_ |
assuming 3 commits you want to get rid of |
| 18:05 |
appguru |
oh |
| 18:06 |
celeron55_ |
i.e. just force push the branch without the commits |
| 18:06 |
appguru |
I tried resetting to origin/master |
| 18:06 |
celeron55_ |
well, of course you'll need to make sure you have the commits saved up in some branch so that they're not completely lost |
| 18:07 |
celeron55_ |
but force pushing means "make the remote branch exactly like the one i'm pushing, including deleting commits" |
| 18:08 |
appguru |
yeah |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
secret tip: git reflog |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I only use git reflog when one flogging wasn't enough. |
| 18:12 |
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| 18:15 |
appguru |
I should read some good comprehensive git guide somewhen |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
I've found that contributing to Minetest has made me better at git than most of my colleagues |
| 18:16 |
appguru |
If I'm a rich burglar with 10k worth of stolen items, and you have 5k I can steal, why should I not do it? |
| 18:16 |
appguru |
oof wrong channel |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
appguru has revealed his plans to steal the Minetest source code |
| 18:20 |
appguru |
rumor says I have it copied to my local drive |
| 18:22 |
Krock |
he'll add telemetry to improve Minetest's look&feel, and also forward information to legal authorities if necessary |
| 18:22 |
appguru |
Kinda like an Audacity fork but the other way around, I'm here to add the good stuff not remove it :P |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
https://content.minetest.net/privacy_policy/#who-has-access |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
? |
| 18:25 |
kilbith |
Krock: given the amount of pedophiles among the MT servers that make perfect sense |
| 18:26 |
appguru |
That depends on whether you consider MT forks MT. |
| 18:27 |
kilbith |
like... "Final Minetest", yes |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
All sites are required to share information with law enforcement. The problem is that Audacity was so vague about what was collected and they collected enough to forbid under 13s from using it |
| 18:29 |
appguru |
Well, whenever there's some kind of chat, you will have predators... It's on the server staff to deal with this. |
| 18:29 |
appguru |
rubenwardy: COPPA again, I assume? |
| 18:29 |
kilbith |
server staff are not required to save logs meanwhile |
| 18:30 |
appguru |
Saving logs can be problematic regarding data protection regulations |
| 18:31 |
appguru |
How would you enforce that requirement BTW? |
| 18:31 |
appguru |
How could staff "prove" that they are saving logs, without making them available to everyone? |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Generally the only way that gets enforced is when there's an actual case that requires you to cough up the logs, and then they get to find out whether you were actually keeping them as required or not. |
| 18:33 |
appguru |
I don't see why this belongs in #minetest-dev, there IMO is little that can be done on the engine/serverlist side of things about this. |
| 18:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You can't rally reconcile data retention requirements with RTBF anyway... |
| 18:33 |
appguru |
Probably a "kid-friendly" badge for servers would be good. |
| 18:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> A channel move sounds good to me. |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> online and user generated content not rated by content bureau |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:50 |
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| 19:08 |
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| 19:17 |
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| 19:23 |
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| 19:24 |
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| 19:25 |
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| 19:28 |
pgimeno |
hm, the license stuff that was commented earlier was pretty much nonsense. Posting a promise-not-to-sue can only be done if every copyright holder agrees to that, including the copyright holders of every work incorporated as part of the code (like the Chili/SpringRTS authors that started the discussion). That also includes future contributions; and despite being GPL, you can't incorporate more GPL code without asking all of the the copyright holders |
| 19:28 |
pgimeno |
of the code you want to include if they agree. |
| 19:32 |
pgimeno |
Please just keep avoiding the GPL, thanks. |
| 19:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> ^ :-) |
| 19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> ^^ :^) |
| 19:33 |
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| 19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Kimapr> why double caret when ^3 |
| 19:42 |
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| 19:54 |
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| 19:57 |
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| 20:09 |
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| 20:30 |
rubenwardy |
there's some PRs here that have exceeded the 1 week to bypass the roadmap: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc+label%3A%22Roadmap%3A+Needs+approval%22 |
| 20:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ooh, I didn't know about 11378; that sounds like something I could really use... |
| 20:32 |
sfan5 |
I guess the rule doesn't count if no dev looks at the PRs |
| 20:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I like the concept, would need to review it to be sure about the implementation. Of particular concern to me is, if the checkbox is hidden, where does the value come from? Can a player-specific override exist but the player now can't see it, or does it allow the game to force a specific value? |
| 20:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm actually already puzzled enough about how the enable_damage setting is handled to begin with. |
| 20:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> OIC it allows you to disable them BY forcing them to a specific value... |
| 20:35 |
sfan5 |
that makes sense |
| 20:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Oh, or maybe not. It seems like you can specify default independently of disabling them, and it forces use of the default is if they're specified AND the setting is disabled. |
| 20:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Disabling a setting but not setting a default makes sense in the case of "don't care" settings that the game doesn't use at all anyway |
| 20:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Like NodeCore and creative_mode. |
| 20:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> But being able to force a default is important for settings that have enginey meanings, like enable_damage. |
| 20:49 |
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sofar joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:50 |
sofar |
so set_sky() is broken for me on ITB. Even with API fixes the client never receives the skybox textures and on any client that doesn't have them cached, I get disco skyboxes (6 flat colors) |
| 20:51 |
sofar |
Pretty sure this is easy to oversee since everyone working with skybox textures will be using a client that has lots of stuff in cache |
| 20:51 |
sofar |
anyone mind wiping cache and e.g. using 5.4 to connect to insidethebox for a second to confirm? I think the client isn't requesting the textures |
| 20:54 |
|
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| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I joined but I hve to do a mandatory tutorial before I can reach the lobby |
| 20:55 |
sofar |
the boxes are open on top so you can see the sky |
| 20:55 |
sofar |
oh |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I see a flat azure-colored sky in tutorial #2 |
| 20:55 |
sofar |
but it's the nonbroken plain one in there |
| 20:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood |
| 20:56 |
sfan5 |
this wouldn't be an issue with set_sky but rather the texture finding/sending |
| 20:56 |
sofar |
yeah the tutorial doesn't use textures |
| 20:56 |
sofar |
sfan5: exactly |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
did you check if textures in the same folders as your skyboxes get sent? |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
as in, try with another file |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
the textures are under mods/skybox/textures |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
just like they were when we launched the server multiple years back |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
they haven't changed |
| 20:58 |
sofar |
there's 6 sets of skyboxes in that mod, they're all not working |
| 20:58 |
sofar |
all the other textures (from other non-skybox mods) are working, the code is working |
| 20:59 |
sofar |
I can see it e.g. change light levels, turn off sun/clouds |
| 21:00 |
sofar |
oh hey |
| 21:00 |
sofar |
if I copy the jpg files to another mod/textures folder, they're still broken |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:00 |
sofar |
I wonder if it's jpg vs. jpeg |
| 21:01 |
sfan5 |
uhh yea I think .jpeg might not work |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I can see this sky which is new to me... |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/862438607669952512/screenshot_20210707_170235.png |
| 21:03 |
sofar |
it was jpg |
| 21:03 |
sofar |
jpeg doesn't work either |
| 21:04 |
sofar |
warr1024: can you clear your cache, log out, try again? |
| 21:04 |
sofar |
warr1024: what MT client version? |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
geesh maybe my MT is built without jpg support? is that even possible? |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> 5.5-dev |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Works fine. Clouds keep getitng in the way of a good screenshot tho |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/862439253798682644/screenshot_20210707_170519.png |
| 21:05 |
sofar |
no, libjpeg linked dynamically |
| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
it's technically possible but it'd throw an error |
| 21:06 |
sofar |
it throws "can't build texture" errors in my client |
| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
does the file hash appear in client/cache/? |
| 21:07 |
sofar |
good point |
| 21:09 |
sofar |
no JPG whatsoever in the cache |
| 21:09 |
sofar |
only PNG and OGG, and a few OBJ |
| 21:11 |
sofar |
warr1024: ty for trying |
| 21:12 |
sofar |
generateimage(): COuld not load image: ... |
| 21:13 |
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| 21:20 |
sofar |
sfan5: or I run mt from a terminal and read: |
| 21:20 |
sofar |
2021-07-07 14:19:45: ERROR[Main]: Client: Cannot create image from data of file "TropicalSunnyDayBack.jpg" |
| 21:20 |
sofar |
2021-07-07 14:19:45: ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: JPEG FATAL ERROR in _tempreadfile: Wrong JPEG library version: library is 62, caller expects 80 |
| 21:20 |
sofar |
so um... wth |
| 21:21 |
sofar |
guess I need to rebuild, when I get to it |
| 21:22 |
sofar |
ok, flatpak version works |
| 21:22 |
* sofar |
calls it solved, moves on to actual ITB code issues |
| 21:24 |
specing |
sofar: your server is cool |
| 21:27 |
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| 22:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> rubenwardy: Re: #11378, do I need to act on it soon or can I wait a few days? I wanted to finish getting #11405 merged before I put additional irons in the fire... |
| 22:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11378 -- Add disable_settings to game.conf to get rid of "Enable Damage"/"Creative Mode"/"Host Server" checkbox by Wuzzy2 |
| 22:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11405 -- Add API for mods to hook liquid transformation events by Warr1024 |
| 22:14 |
rubenwardy |
well "Supported by core dev" is more like you think the PR could be a good idea, doesn't mean you've looked into it exactly |
| 22:15 |
rubenwardy |
like, you should be able to determine whether you "support" a PR just by reading the title and description, without going into technical details |
| 22:15 |
rubenwardy |
maybe we need a different label idk |
| 22:15 |
rubenwardy |
that's how I see it anyway |
| 22:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Okay, I wasn't even sure what that label meant, since it's seems kind of oblique to the "approval" labels. |
| 22:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I can add that one. |
| 22:32 |
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| 22:47 |
Wuzzy |
#11431 |
| 22:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11431 -- Add paramtype2s for horizontal rotation and 64 colors by Wuzzy2 |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Oh heck yeah thats useful |
| 22:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I swear it was like only a few days ago when I was playing around with facedirs and thinking "it would be a lot easier to manage this if there were an only-4-way version of this" |
| 22:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> With furnaces and chests ironically I do enjoy flipping them around in weird directions so I'd rather those stay full facedir, but in NodeCore I recently merged raking sand, and sand only makes sense to stay raked on the top surface... |
| 22:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Eh, that reminds me that for 11405 I probably need to look into what's necessary to include regression testing tools for it to devtest... |
| 23:38 |
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