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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2021-07-07

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Time Nick Message
02:09 v-rob joined #minetest-dev
02:42 v-rob Oh gee whiz, Irrlicht doesn't even have keycodes for some keyboard things so we have to hack around it in KeyPress.
02:42 v-rob I really don't want to touch the keycode names for fear of breaking anything.
02:42 v-rob Ugh
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07:07 sfan5 which "keyboard things" would that be?
08:10 queria^afk joined #minetest-dev
08:51 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> specing, AFAIK you cannot just change the license of MT since every single contributor ever would need to agree to it first...that's what  a core dev once said
08:53 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Unless you were talking about a license that is directly compatible with LGPL...not sure there
08:57 specing Yes, GPL would, upon linking, overrule the LGPL
08:58 specing and the whole would become GPL
08:58 specing I think...
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11:52 pgimeno yes, the LGPL has provisions for relicensing as GPL specifically, but it's not a change I as a user would like
13:00 MTDiscord <appguru> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios#contribution-guidelines--license
13:00 MTDiscord <appguru> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios/blob/master/COPYING.iOS
13:00 MTDiscord <appguru> It looks like GPL applications can actually be available on the AppStore
13:00 MTDiscord <appguru> (https://github.com/audacity/audacity/discussions/932#discussioncomment-781558)
13:08 MTDiscord <MNH48> ironic that the last link is from discussion on one of the most disastrous software, that spun so many forks when the disaster happened
13:11 MTDiscord <Warr1024> GPL apps cannot be on the app store.  NextCloud is not GPL, it's dual-license.
13:11 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It's distributed under either the terms of the GPL, or under GPL plus the App Store exception.
13:13 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Minetest can make a similar promise not to enforce the GPL specifically against the App Store, but it does not have the power to make that promise on behalf of each individual contributor.
13:13 specing What's the apple hostility against the GPL about?
13:14 specing Also, my fork of MT is AGPLv3
13:14 specing Apple can go suck it
13:39 MTDiscord <Jordach> bullshit
13:39 MTDiscord <Jordach> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-adblock-privacy/id1047223162 / https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdguardForiOS
13:40 MTDiscord <Jordach> it's GPL-3
13:42 MTDiscord <Warr1024> In that case, feel free to report them.
13:43 MTDiscord <Jordach> unfortunately that's a 10 year old joke that needs to rightfully get fucked
13:43 MTDiscord <Jordach> GPL is fine
13:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Haha, that damn license is so hard to dig through, it makes it hard to find out who actually owns the copyright...
13:45 MTDiscord <Jordach> COPYING already proves it's under GPL
13:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It looks like they don't have any transparency about how to become a code contributor.  It's sort of a closed team.  That means we don't know what kind of CLA-type agreements are involved in contributing code to the core.
13:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> That means we can't be certain it's purely GPL.  They can very easily have a dual license setup.
13:46 MTDiscord <Jordach> i doubt there's a CLA involved, see audacity on how to fuck that up
13:47 MTDiscord <Jordach> second the acknowledgements page in app links to all the GPL / oss licenses used in libraries
13:48 MTDiscord <Jordach> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios is even GPL3
13:48 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Like I said, report them if you'd like.  It's not really relevant to MT licensing discussions, or really to MT dev in general.
13:48 MTDiscord <Jordach> it means there really isn't any issue deploying to the App Store
13:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> 🤦 NextCloud iOS is not GPL, says right at https://github.com/nextcloud/ios#contribution-guidelines--license, and this was mentioned right at the beginning.  PLEASE try to follow along with the discussion before calling bullshit on anything.
13:50 MTDiscord <Jordach> we already do that in Minetest for new files
13:50 MTDiscord <Jordach> clouds.h, skyparams.h and other class headers
13:50 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yeah, that's fine.
13:51 MTDiscord <Jordach> we only need this boilerplate and we're fine
13:51 MTDiscord <Jordach> https://github.com/nextcloud/ios/blob/master/COPYING.iOS
13:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I mean, I've considered MIT-licensing my contributions.  At the very least, I'd relicense them if I were to publish them separately.
13:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> And as previously mentioned, yes, that boilerplate would work fine, but you'd have a hard time getting it ratified.
13:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Especially since some past contributors are no longer even with us and their ownership of the copyrights to their contributions have been inherited and you'd have to get them to understand and accept those terms.
13:52 MTDiscord <Jordach> at the end of the day as long as people aren't using the IAP laden semi-closed forks
13:52 MTDiscord <Jordach> is it really a conscious problem
13:53 MTDiscord <Kimapr> isn't it illegal to impose additional restrictions on GPL'ed software?
13:53 MTDiscord <Warr1024> MT forks that are in the App store are already in violation of the GPL, the MT devs just don't have the time/energy to chase after them constantly.
13:53 MTDiscord <Kimapr> (also, does the discord reply feature work over the bridge?)
13:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I think replies only send the text, not which message you're replying to.
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13:55 MTDiscord <Kimapr> that's pretty bad (test)
13:56 Kimapr yep, doesn't even include the name of the person who i replied to
14:14 sfan5 Krock: how much would you mind if bitmap fonts stopped working?
14:14 rubenwardy can you still do bitmap fonts using freetype?
14:14 rubenwardy for a voxel game, seems fairly important to allow pixel fonts
14:15 sfan5 "pixel" != bitmap
14:15 sfan5 pixel fonts are doable anyway
14:15 MTDiscord <Jordach> there exists a TTF version of the MC font
14:16 sfan5 by bitmap fonts here I mean -DENABLE_FREETYPE=0 which nobody has been using seriously in years
14:16 rubenwardy yeah, removing support for no freetype makes sense to me
14:17 rubenwardy I believe that's required for colored chat
14:17 sfan5 it is
14:17 MTDiscord <appguru> remove support for no freetype
14:18 rubenwardy [Delete] 👏
14:19 sfan5 the context here is that I want to delete all XML code from irrmt but the png fonts we ship have an xml file
14:19 MTDiscord <appguru> PNG fonts?
14:19 rubenwardy yeah I remember this discussion
14:19 rubenwardy appguru: bitmap fonts, for non-freetype
14:19 MTDiscord <appguru> I saw them, but have never really seen them in use
14:19 MTDiscord <appguru> (saw them as files)
14:35 MTDiscord <josiah_wi> I'd like to get a second approval for #11287!
14:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11287 -- Take advantage of IrrlichtMt target by JosiahWI
14:49 sfan5 >    Drop XML implementation, related code and dependent features
14:49 sfan5 > 49 files changed, 10 insertions(+), 13412 deletions(-)
14:49 sfan5 *grin*
14:51 rubenwardy that's such a nice ratio
14:54 specing irrlicht had its own implementation of XML?
14:54 sfan5 of course
14:55 specing lol
14:56 rubenwardy sounds about right
14:56 sfan5 it's honestly not that bad if you need a subset and not a spec-compliant implementation, allows you to avoid security issues e.g. libxml2 is plagued with
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17:54 celeron55_ that's one way of going about getting rid of irrlicht...
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17:54 celeron55_ just delete it piece by piece
18:03 sfan5 @appguru it's always possible to fix a branch by force pushing, no need to open a new pr
18:03 sfan5 if you have git questions I can help
18:03 appguru I tried force pushing
18:03 appguru And I reset my master branch
18:03 appguru Unfortunately, I had origin set to my fork
18:03 appguru Sorry for the commotion
18:04 appguru I couldn't really find a way to get the commits I accidentally did on my master branch out of there though
18:05 appguru So I wanted to just delete & restore the branch, but the deletion closed the PR, and the restoring didn't reopen it...
18:05 celeron55_ git reset --hard HEAD~3; git push -f
18:05 celeron55_ assuming 3 commits you want to get rid of
18:05 appguru oh
18:06 celeron55_ i.e. just force push the branch without the commits
18:06 appguru I tried resetting to origin/master
18:06 celeron55_ well, of course you'll need to make sure you have the commits saved up in some branch so that they're not completely lost
18:07 celeron55_ but force pushing means "make the remote branch exactly like the one i'm pushing, including deleting commits"
18:08 appguru yeah
18:08 sfan5 secret tip: git reflog
18:12 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I only use git reflog when one flogging wasn't enough.
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18:15 appguru I should read some good comprehensive git guide somewhen
18:15 rubenwardy I've found that contributing to Minetest has made me better at git than most of my colleagues
18:16 appguru If I'm a rich burglar with 10k worth of stolen items, and you have 5k I can steal, why should I not do it?
18:16 appguru oof wrong channel
18:19 sfan5 appguru has revealed his plans to steal the Minetest source code
18:20 appguru rumor says I have it copied to my local drive
18:22 Krock he'll add telemetry to improve Minetest's look&feel, and also forward information to legal authorities if necessary
18:22 appguru Kinda like an Audacity fork but the other way around, I'm here to add the good stuff not remove it :P
18:24 rubenwardy https://content.minetest.net/privacy_policy/#who-has-access
18:24 rubenwardy 👀
18:25 kilbith Krock: given the amount of pedophiles among the MT servers that make perfect sense
18:26 appguru That depends on whether you consider MT forks MT.
18:27 kilbith like... "Final Minetest", yes
18:28 rubenwardy All sites are required to share information with law enforcement. The problem is that Audacity was so vague about what was collected and they collected enough to forbid under 13s from using it
18:29 appguru Well, whenever there's some kind of chat, you will have predators... It's on the server staff to deal with this.
18:29 appguru rubenwardy: COPPA again, I assume?
18:29 kilbith server staff are not required to save logs meanwhile
18:30 appguru Saving logs can be problematic regarding data protection regulations
18:31 appguru How would you enforce that requirement BTW?
18:31 appguru How could staff "prove" that they are saving logs, without making them available to everyone?
18:32 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Generally the only way that gets enforced is when there's an actual case that requires you to cough up the logs, and then they get to find out whether you were actually keeping them as required or not.
18:33 appguru I don't see why this belongs in #minetest-dev, there IMO is little that can be done on the engine/serverlist side of things about this.
18:33 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You can't rally reconcile data retention requirements with RTBF anyway...
18:33 appguru Probably a "kid-friendly" badge for servers would be good.
18:33 MTDiscord <Warr1024> A channel move sounds good to me.
18:41 MTDiscord <Jordach> online and user generated content not rated by content bureau
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19:28 pgimeno hm, the license stuff that was commented earlier was pretty much nonsense. Posting a promise-not-to-sue can only be done if every copyright holder agrees to that, including the copyright holders of every work incorporated as part of the code (like the Chili/SpringRTS authors that started the discussion). That also includes future contributions; and despite being GPL, you can't incorporate more GPL code without asking all of the the copyright holders
19:28 pgimeno of the code you want to include if they agree.
19:32 pgimeno Please just keep avoiding the GPL, thanks.
19:32 MTDiscord <Warr1024> ^ :-)
19:33 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> ^^ :^)
19:33 Extex joined #minetest-dev
19:34 MTDiscord <Kimapr> why double caret when ^3
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20:30 rubenwardy there's some PRs here that have exceeded the 1 week to bypass the roadmap: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc+label%3A%22Roadmap%3A+Needs+approval%22
20:32 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Ooh, I didn't know about 11378; that sounds like something I could really use...
20:32 sfan5 I guess the rule doesn't count if no dev looks at the PRs
20:34 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I like the concept, would need to review it to be sure about the implementation.  Of particular concern to me is, if the checkbox is hidden, where does the value come from?  Can a player-specific override exist but the player now can't see it, or does it allow the game to force a specific value?
20:34 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I'm actually already puzzled enough about how the enable_damage setting is handled to begin with.
20:35 MTDiscord <Warr1024> OIC it allows you to disable them BY forcing them to a specific value...
20:35 sfan5 that makes sense
20:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Oh, or maybe not.  It seems like you can specify default independently of disabling them, and it forces use of the default is if they're specified AND the setting is disabled.
20:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Disabling a setting but not setting a default makes sense in the case of "don't care" settings that the game doesn't use at all anyway
20:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Like NodeCore and creative_mode.
20:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> But being able to force a default is important for settings that have enginey meanings, like enable_damage.
20:49 sofar joined #minetest-dev
20:50 sofar so set_sky() is broken for me on ITB. Even with API fixes the client never receives the skybox textures and on any client that doesn't have them cached, I get disco skyboxes (6 flat colors)
20:51 sofar Pretty sure this is easy to oversee since everyone working with skybox textures will be using a client that has lots of stuff in cache
20:51 sofar anyone mind wiping cache and e.g. using 5.4 to connect to insidethebox for a second to confirm? I think the client isn't requesting the textures
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20:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I joined but I hve to do a mandatory tutorial before I can reach the lobby
20:55 sofar the boxes are open on top so you can see the sky
20:55 sofar oh
20:55 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I see a flat azure-colored sky in tutorial #2
20:55 sofar but it's the nonbroken plain one in there
20:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood
20:56 sfan5 this wouldn't be an issue with set_sky but rather the texture finding/sending
20:56 sofar yeah the tutorial doesn't use textures
20:56 sofar sfan5: exactly
20:57 sfan5 did you check if textures in the same folders as your skyboxes get sent?
20:57 sfan5 as in, try with another file
20:57 sofar the textures are under mods/skybox/textures
20:57 sofar just like they were when we launched the server multiple years back
20:57 sofar they haven't changed
20:58 sofar there's 6 sets of skyboxes in that mod, they're all not working
20:58 sofar all the other textures (from other non-skybox mods) are working, the code is working
20:59 sofar I can see it e.g. change light levels, turn off sun/clouds
21:00 sofar oh hey
21:00 sofar if I copy the jpg files to another mod/textures folder, they're still broken
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21:00 sofar I wonder if it's jpg vs. jpeg
21:01 sfan5 uhh yea I think .jpeg might not work
21:03 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I can see this sky which is new to me...
21:03 MTDiscord <Warr1024> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/862438607669952512/screenshot_20210707_170235.png
21:03 sofar it was jpg
21:03 sofar jpeg doesn't work either
21:04 sofar warr1024: can you clear your cache, log out, try again?
21:04 sofar warr1024: what MT client version?
21:05 sofar geesh maybe my MT is built without jpg support? is that even possible?
21:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> 5.5-dev
21:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Works fine.  Clouds keep getitng in the way of a good screenshot tho
21:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/862439253798682644/screenshot_20210707_170519.png
21:05 sofar no, libjpeg linked dynamically
21:06 sfan5 it's technically possible but it'd throw an error
21:06 sofar it throws "can't build texture" errors in my client
21:06 sfan5 does the file hash appear in client/cache/?
21:07 sofar good point
21:09 sofar no JPG whatsoever in the cache
21:09 sofar only PNG and OGG, and a few OBJ
21:11 sofar warr1024: ty for trying
21:12 sofar generateimage(): COuld not load image: ...
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21:20 sofar sfan5: or I run mt from a terminal and read:
21:20 sofar 2021-07-07 14:19:45: ERROR[Main]: Client: Cannot create image from data of file "TropicalSunnyDayBack.jpg"
21:20 sofar 2021-07-07 14:19:45: ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: JPEG FATAL ERROR in _tempreadfile: Wrong JPEG library version: library is 62, caller expects 80
21:20 sofar so um... wth
21:21 sofar guess I need to rebuild, when I get to it
21:22 sofar ok, flatpak version works
21:22 * sofar calls it solved, moves on to actual ITB code issues
21:24 specing sofar: your server is cool
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22:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> rubenwardy: Re: #11378, do I need to act on it soon or can I wait a few days?  I wanted to finish getting #11405 merged before I put additional irons in the fire...
22:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11378 -- Add disable_settings to game.conf to get rid of "Enable Damage"/"Creative Mode"/"Host Server" checkbox by Wuzzy2
22:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11405 -- Add API for mods to hook liquid transformation events by Warr1024
22:14 rubenwardy well "Supported by core dev" is more like you think the PR could be a good idea, doesn't mean you've looked into it exactly
22:15 rubenwardy like, you should be able to determine whether you "support" a PR just by reading the title and description, without going into technical details
22:15 rubenwardy maybe we need a different label idk
22:15 rubenwardy that's how I see it anyway
22:20 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Okay, I wasn't even sure what that label meant, since it's seems kind of oblique to the "approval" labels.
22:20 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I can add that one.
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22:47 Wuzzy #11431
22:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11431 -- Add paramtype2s for horizontal rotation and 64 colors by Wuzzy2
22:49 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Oh heck yeah thats useful
22:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Haha, I swear it was like only a few days ago when I was playing around with facedirs and thinking "it would be a lot easier to manage this if there were an only-4-way version of this"
22:53 MTDiscord <Warr1024> With furnaces and chests ironically I do enjoy flipping them around in weird directions so I'd rather those stay full facedir, but in NodeCore I recently merged raking sand, and sand only makes sense to stay raked on the top surface...
22:55 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Eh, that reminds me that for 11405 I probably need to look into what's necessary to include regression testing tools for it to devtest...
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