| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:24 |
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| 01:08 |
v-rob |
kilbith: #10265 just needs a rebase and a review, that's all. I'll rebase. |
| 01:08 |
v-rob |
specing: The only drawing API I can find for SpringRTS is a thin OpenGL wrapper, is that what you mean? |
| 01:14 |
v-rob |
Oh, actually, #10265 has already been code reviewed by rubenwardy, so all it would need is for him to test it. |
| 01:18 |
v-rob |
And, rebased |
| 01:27 |
v-rob |
sfan5: why is #10738 a possible close? Because no progress on SDL is happening? |
| 02:26 |
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| 02:29 |
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| 03:16 |
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| 03:25 |
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| 05:03 |
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| 05:11 |
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| 05:54 |
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| 07:07 |
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| 07:34 |
sfan5 |
v-rob: there's no progress but more importantly most of the listed problems are already solved with IrrlichtMt |
| 07:58 |
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| 08:14 |
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| 09:28 |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:47 |
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| 10:59 |
pgimeno |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10265 -- FormSpec: 9-slice images, animated_images, and fgimg_middle by v-rob |
| 10:59 |
pgimeno |
#10265 |
| 11:00 |
pgimeno |
hmm |
| 11:07 |
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| 11:10 |
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| 13:52 |
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| 14:22 |
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| 15:36 |
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| 15:55 |
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| 16:05 |
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| 16:45 |
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| 16:53 |
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| 17:06 |
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| 17:12 |
Wuzzy |
#10810 |
| 17:12 |
pgimeno |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10810 -- Split liquid_viscosity to liquid_viscosity and move_resistance by Wuzzy2 |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:07 |
ShadowNinja |
pgimeno: ShadowBot reconnected, but it wasn't auto-joining channels for some reason, I re-joined it. |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
do we have any use for .dae files |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
has anyone ever used them |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Im not sure how to answer that |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I would love to use dae files, but afaik they arent supported |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> One of the features of dae is having separate model/skeleton/animation files that can be applied to each other dynamically, which would be a fantastic feature to support |
| 18:16 |
sfan5 |
Irrlicht supports loading Collada |
| 18:16 |
sfan5 |
but I'm not sure whether for scenes or meshes |
| 18:16 |
sfan5 |
or both or idk |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Irrlicht supports a bunch of stuff but Minetest seems to only support a subset of that last I checked |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> According to https://wiki.minetest.net/Using_Blender, Irrlicht doesnt support any modern standards for animated models |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
ah right we have a whitelist |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
>".x", ".b3d", ".md2", ".obj", |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Honestly forgot md2 was supported |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> We should really be supporting collada though, as its one of the modern standards for models |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> x and b3d are both outdated and defunct |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
I was just comtemplating deleting all code that deals with XML from IrrlichtMt |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
that includes collada |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I mean it wont be a loss as it stands, but we should really support collada in the future |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> All of our supported model formats but obj need to be dropped |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> They are a pain to deal with |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> X exporters are getting harder to come by, and eventually I wont be able to keep my b3d exporter up to date with Blender |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> and md2 is older than both of them |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Collada or Gltf2 support would be great |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> gltf would be neat, but it is contested as a standard |
| 18:23 |
sfan5 |
we should rather have gltf and you know that old formats won't be removed |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> collada is easier to deal with, and exporters for it are well-made |
| 18:24 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I know old formats wont be removed, I just mean we shouldnt be relying on them |
| 18:24 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I've used gltf and the way it was handled sucked, I'd personally want to use collada |
| 18:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Deprecating the old formats might not be a bad idea though, encourage mods to move to a newer format so that the code can eventually be removed |
| 18:25 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Technically theyll be "removed" by way of no longer being exportable by 3d modelling software ;] |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
>//! Meshloader capable of loading COLLADA meshes and scene descriptions into Irrlicht. |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
okay looks like it can do meshes |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Huh, apparently collada is also by Khronos. TIL. |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> If we really wanted to pretty much not worry about mesh formats we could use something like Assimp, but that been shot down in the past for being a dependency |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> (iirc) |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Alright, I concede. We should support gltf. |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Nuke the XML code |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> (https://godotengine.org/article/we-should-all-use-gltf-20-export-3d-assets-game-engines) |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
btw here's the mesh formats in the irrlicht source: 3DS B3D BSP Irr LMTS LWO MD2 MD3 MS3D MY3D OBJ Ogre PLY SMF STL X |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The exporter argument doesnt work for either collada or gltf, since the collada exporter is supposedly incomplete/broken and the gltf exporter is WIP as of 4 years ago |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Irrlicht is a bit outdated |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> half of those are long dead |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> And id argue PLY and STL, while still in regular use, arent fit for games |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Converting to a more suitable format is trivial anyway |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Looks like Blender gltf support is fine nowadays |
| 18:36 |
sfan5 |
when did you last try it? |
| 18:39 |
sfan5 |
irrlicht can load .dae but animations don't work, might as well use .obj then |
| 18:39 |
sfan5 |
(with a default blender export of MTG character.blend that is) |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> That is what I said earlier |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Oh, well I thought it |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> but ended up saying "Irrlicht doesnt support any modern standards for animated models" |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
ah no you did |
| 18:42 |
sfan5 |
I merely tested it |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I last used the Blender gltf exporter a few months ago, and it worked fine |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It is actively developed |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> And there dont seem to be any notable missing features |
| 18:43 |
sfan5 |
<GreenXenith> I've used gltf and the way it was handled sucked, I'd personally want to use collada |
| 18:43 |
sfan5 |
when was that I meant |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Also a few months ago, and I was referring to how the engine I used handled it. I dont know if there is a different way to handle it, or maybe I just didnt get how it worked |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Its not your traditional "specify a path and youre done" thing |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Its all built on scenes and whatnot |
| 19:06 |
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| 19:17 |
pgimeno |
ShadowNinja: thanks, disabled my workaround |
| 19:34 |
pgimeno |
re models, Collada seems quite bloated to me, not good for server-sent models |
| 19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Yeah, gltf replaces it anyway |
| 19:35 |
pgimeno |
IDK about gltf, I know about .obj and it's quite "pure" and straight to the point, except for the fact of being text |
| 19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> and not having animations of any sort |
| 19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> I like obj, don't get me wrong, but it's not useful for anything animated |
| 19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> (I wonder if you could use a file specific for animations though, like you can for material defs) |
| 19:38 |
pgimeno |
animations are a different problem, I know of a certain 3D engine that uses IQM, it seems like a format to consider. |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Better to use well-established and supported standards |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Was just a curiosity, I still support ^ |
| 19:44 |
pgimeno |
IQM is compact, which is a plus for server-sent media https://github.com/lsalzman/iqm/blob/master/iqm.txt |
| 19:46 |
sfan5 |
IQM is not one of the formats I saw blender have an exporter for |
| 19:46 |
pgimeno |
https://github.com/excessive/iqm-exm#blender-exporter |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> There is a Blender exporter, but I dont trust a non-standard to stick around forever |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Looks like another B3D to me |
| 19:55 |
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| 20:07 |
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| 20:12 |
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| 20:14 |
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| 20:18 |
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| 20:57 |
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| 21:26 |
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| 21:43 |
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| 22:12 |
sfan5 |
just noticed that deleting XML from irrlicht also breaks the non-freetype fonts |
| 22:12 |
sfan5 |
not a big loss I guess |
| 22:18 |
sfan5 |
if we wanted it could be kept pretty easily by swapping out the fonts/mono_dejavu_sans_10.xml format for something simpler |
| 22:41 |
specing |
v-rob: I actually can't find any GUI drawing api either, though I remember using it |
| 22:42 |
specing |
v-rob: it's possible that it just uses opengl directly |
| 22:43 |
specing |
v-rob: also https://springrts.com/wiki/Lua_Fonts & https://springrts.com/wiki/Chili |
| 22:44 |
specing |
https://springrts.com/wiki/Chili:ScreenShots |
| 22:44 |
specing |
^ for everyone else, to see what's possible |
| 22:49 |
specing |
v-rob: https://github.com/gajop/chiliui/blob/master/luaui/chili/chili/controls/progressbar.lua at the bottom |
| 22:49 |
v-rob |
Ah, OK, so it is OpenGL. |
| 22:50 |
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| 22:50 |
v-rob |
I am fairly happy with my Lua drawing API as it is, at least for 2D. |
| 22:52 |
specing |
I'd still advise to keeping it as close as possible to other games |
| 22:52 |
specing |
so people don't have to learn twice, and you also don't have to work twice (and can just copy chili) |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:16 |
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| 23:28 |
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| 23:41 |
v-rob |
Well, I can't copy Chili for a number of reasons, namely that SpringRTS is GPL and we're LGPL, but also because Chili's API isn't powerful enough for what the new GUI has to do. The bare necessities for the new GUI is: a) can do everything formspecs and the HUD do, but with a better API (since formspec strings and player HUD calls will be translated to the new GUI) and b) work over the network with a SSM API. Chili doesn't fulfil either requirement. |
| 23:41 |
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| 23:43 |
v-rob |
Obviously, there's more to the new GUI than those two requirements, but it's a good way to weed out impossibilities, since nearly every existing GUI toolkit can't work with Minetest without significant changes to the toolkit. |
| 23:47 |
specing |
Why stick to LGPL? |
| 23:54 |
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| 23:55 |
v-rob |
Minetest's license is not something I have control over, and I'm fairly sure I can't just license an integrated part of the engine as GPL while everything else is LGPL. |
| 23:55 |
specing |
Sure you can. The whole linked binary just becomes GPL |
| 23:57 |
v-rob |
I still don't have the authority to make that choice alone. |
| 23:57 |
v-rob |
Regardless of licensing, Chili simply isn't capable enough anyway. |
