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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2021-02-05

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Time Nick Message
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00:33 v-rob What's up with set_rotation?  Is roll supposed to act like pitch when yaw points along the X axis of the world?
00:34 v-rob Roll only rolls when yaw points along the Z axis of the world
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00:47 v-rob Is there a trivial way for mods to do this, or would another API function be helpful, say set_relative_rotation?
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11:00 pgimeno does anyone know what v-rob was talking about?
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13:06 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> I wish I did, in normal 3d graphics the order of operations for applying rotations is pitch, yaw, and then roll.
13:06 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Who knows what order we are applying them
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13:06 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Actually yeah this is exactly the problem v-rob is running into
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13:24 MTDiscord <a​ppguru> ZXY
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15:15 Wuzzy bugfix PR: #10742
15:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10742 -- Fix world-aligned node rendering at bottom by Wuzzy2
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16:31 pgimeno yes, Minetest needs a somewhat esoteric order because of its somewhat esoteric choice of axes
16:33 pgimeno the docs mention which is which: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6299
16:35 pgimeno ahh now I understand him, he's complaining that the angles are extrinsic, not intrinsic
16:36 pgimeno yes the idea was to add function object:rotate({x=pitch, y=yaw, z=roll})
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16:36 pgimeno https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7395#issuecomment-394093984
16:38 pgimeno I think I offered to do that at some point, but there didn't seem to be much interest
16:41 pgimeno I can't find it in the longs, maybe I didn't
16:41 pgimeno logs*
16:50 pgimeno anyway it's relatively simple. Use setPitchYawRollRad (from src/util/numeric.cpp) to calculate the matrix from the axes, and apply (post-multiply) that matrix to the scene node's matrix. Or maybe pre-multiply; not sure if Irrlicht needed the opposite convention.
16:51 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Right, just flip the order they are applied. What would you call the lua function?
16:52 pgimeno object:rotate
16:52 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> But we need to have access to both...
16:52 pgimeno alternatively, have separate object:applyPitch(), object:applyYaw(), object:applyRoll()
16:52 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Unless we are adding an optional boolean to the end of the rotate function, that could work
16:53 pgimeno oh, the current one is called object:set_rotation, which is absolute (as the name 'set' suggests)
16:53 pgimeno object:rotate() does not exist yet
16:53 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Gotcha, then yeah having the option to do either in a single command with intrinsic/extrinsic as the default would be nice
16:55 pgimeno I think separate functions is better for intrinsic rotations, as the modder will have better control over the order of rotations without surprises, and no extra work will be wasted when they only need to rotate around a single intrinsic axis
16:57 pgimeno hm, I might be wrong about how simple it is. I think the rotation is stored server-side as three Euler angles, not as a matrix.
16:57 pgimeno That means it needs to be converted to matrix form first, then converted back to Euler form later.
16:58 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> nods sounds like what irrlicht would do
16:59 pgimeno !tell v-rob See https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2021-02-05#i_5781728 on the local rotation issue
16:59 ShadowBot pgimeno: O.K.
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17:18 pgimeno I made this proof of concept using just Lua: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/relrot.lua
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17:27 pgimeno I've noticed inconsistent usage of commas to separate privs between /privs, /grant and /revoke
17:28 pgimeno /privs reports the privs with commas, /grant and /revoke don't
17:35 Krock https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Server-properly-delete-ServerMap-on-interrupted-star.patch
17:35 Krock fix for #10917. will push in 20 minutes if there are no objections/change requests
17:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10917 -- Minetest aborts after consequence of Lua error
17:38 Krock pgimeno: yes, I also observed that. both formats should be accepted
17:40 pgimeno Krock: it affects the output only, it's quite difficult to read without the commas IMO. Trivial fix, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/chat.lua#L228
17:40 pgimeno https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/chat.lua#L299 too
17:41 pgimeno https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/chat.lua#L157 is how /privs does it (with comma)
17:41 Krock hmm. that would again delay the builtin translations - if those ever get through
17:42 Krock L297 too
17:43 pgimeno well spotted
17:43 pgimeno and L222
17:43 pgimeno err, L226
17:44 Krock basically all `, ' ')` occurrences in the file
17:48 pgimeno Wuzzy: I suggest you indicate tiled:tiled in the repro instructions of #10742, I had a bit of a headache trying to reproduce it
17:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10742 -- Fix world-aligned node rendering at bottom by Wuzzy2
17:50 pgimeno but yeah, it's easily reproducible by adding nodes in the X direction, they keep changing numbers
17:55 Krock pushing patch...
17:57 Wuzzy pgimeno: i havent found a reliable pattern yet, but its generall "keep adding or remove nodes and hope for the best" 😆
17:58 Wuzzy pgimeno: also: 9275
17:58 Wuzzy #9275
17:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9275 -- Bottom side of world-aligned node textures misbehaves while placing nodes along X axis
18:00 pgimeno very easy for me... start devtest, give yourself tiled:tiled, make a 3 nodes high tower, then keep adding nodes east or west and observe how the other nodes change numbers as you add tiles. I think they stop changing at mapblock boundaries.
18:06 pgimeno http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/bug-9275.gif
18:09 MTDiscord <F​lamore> the 8/2 block gets replaced by the 8/1 probably
18:11 pgimeno I believe it has to do with textures, not blocks
18:11 pgimeno (UVs)
18:12 pgimeno Wuzzy: I mentioned it because the repro recipe in 9275 does not work because experimental:tiled does not exist
18:13 Wuzzy its tiled:tiled now
18:13 pgimeno hence why I suggested you to indicate it, to make it easier for reviewers/testers
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21:10 kilbith `table.indexof` is broken
21:10 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/common/misc_helpers.lua#L197
21:10 kilbith should be changed to `pairs`
21:10 kilbith because otherwise:
21:10 kilbith local t = {"foo", "bar", "baz", [5] = "banana"}; print(table.indexof(t, "banana"))
21:10 kilbith > returns -1
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21:36 rubenwardy indexof is for integer tables, not for keyed tables
21:38 kilbith [5] ain't an integer maybe?
21:39 kilbith changing it `pairs` would make it returns any kind of indexes, there are only bonuses without losses
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21:39 kilbith * it to
21:43 rubenwardy sorry, I meant array-based tables
21:43 rubenwardy tables have array parts and hash parts. Array parts must be contiguous from 1
21:46 pgimeno using the array parts is faster
21:46 kilbith thanks for teaching me something about Lua tables /s
21:46 pgimeno so it's not right that there are no loses
21:46 kilbith oh come on
21:47 kilbith we are talking about 1e-10 ms. in most common cases
21:48 kilbith the benefits outright the superfluous performance loss
21:49 kilbith I mean supplant not outright - english gets rusty
21:49 pgimeno no, we're talking about breaking a trace. pairs() is NYI.
21:50 kilbith ?
21:50 pgimeno http://wiki.luajit.org/NYI#libraries_base-library
21:51 pgimeno to be fair, # can return (and therefore is able to check) more elements than ipairs() which always stops at the first nil
21:51 pgimeno so maybe it should be rewritten to use #
21:56 pgimeno OTOH, ipairs is consistent, while # may not be
22:02 pgimeno http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/test-table-indexof-with-hash.lua - yes, maybe not consistent enough
22:03 rubenwardy I agree with using #
22:04 kilbith Lua PUC needs to go anyway
22:06 pgimeno yeah but LuaJIT returns the element or not, depending on the size allocated for the hash - that's not consistent
22:07 pgimeno or for the array
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22:12 v-rob On the rotation issue: it seems I was working with an older version of Minetest with different behaviour, but there's still no easy way to rotate relative to the current rotation with the new behaviour either.
22:13 v-rob I was asking because I want to make a set_look_roll/set_look_rotation, but that might be over my head...
22:16 kilbith is this in a relation with the model part of the formspec rewrite?
22:17 kilbith -a
22:17 v-rob No, for the player's camera, i.e. as the third axis to go with set_look_horizontal/vertical
22:18 v-rob It'd be useful for e.g. space games or
22:18 v-rob games that don't have a concept of an up or down axis
22:18 kilbith I thought you were busy with the formspec rewrite
22:19 v-rob I am, but I thought that a change of pace with a small detour would be nice, but apparently I was wrong in assuming that it would be easy.
22:20 v-rob Figuring out Freetype's units for properly calculating underline position (which is inaccurate right now) is kind of boring...
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22:21 kilbith underline's in the font itself, no?
22:22 kilbith ah no, we don't have an underlined font
22:23 v-rob Fonts do store underline info via Freetype's API, but they use multiple different units. The current underline code from hypertext doesn't use optimal calculations (e.g. all underlines have odd numbers of pixels)
22:27 rubenwardy #10921
22:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10921 -- Reduce ore noise_parms error to deprecation warning by rubenwardy
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23:35 Wuzzy hey,  recently became a member of Minetest on github, but i dont really know what it means to me now. care to explain?
23:36 v-rob I believe that's for issue triaging; I know we were considering you for that
23:37 v-rob The idea is that people who aren't core devs can take care of issues, like labeling, closing old ones, and suchlike.
23:38 v-rob So more people can take manage issues and pull requests without the full responsibilities of a core dev.
23:38 rubenwardy https://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines#Issue_and_Pull-Request_Management
23:39 Wuzzy "If a pull request or an issue does not get a response from its author within one month when requiring more details, it is closed."
23:39 Wuzzy oh, really? doesnt look like that. we literally have many issues that date back to 2016
23:40 v-rob We have one that dates to 2011, #36
23:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/36 -- Add ability to update node/craft/tool/entity properties during runtime
23:40 Wuzzy 2017*. but still
23:40 Wuzzy i think that one should be rejected, actually
23:41 v-rob It's got a "Supported by core dev", but I don't know why paramat put that on. He doesn't seem to support it from what I can see.
23:42 v-rob Well, you do have the power to close issues (and pull requests) like that now
23:43 Wuzzy thing is, just closing old issues won't solve anything if they describe real world problems, no matter how old. ;) they are just removed from view
23:44 v-rob Well, 36 really isn't applicable unless we have SSCSM because metadata isn't a viable solution
23:44 Wuzzy i feel like the label was added by accident tho
23:44 v-rob Probably
23:45 Wuzzy unfortunately, i wont be adding labels until MS fixes their broken website (i.e. likely never)
23:45 v-rob Oh, no JavaScript?
23:45 Wuzzy at least i'll be able to close issues. thats more than nothing. heh
23:46 Wuzzy but still. i think "lack of labels" is not really our biggest problems anyway
23:46 Wuzzy the real problem is more like "tiny code review pipeline bottleneck"
23:47 Wuzzy I feel like we can basically throw away *easily* at least half of the PRs that are open right now because of old age and massive incompability problems. sad but true.
23:48 v-rob And no one wants to close them because they *could* be useful, if anyone did anything about them
23:50 Wuzzy We have a serious problem with the review process. we don't lack programmers (>100 open PRs constantly FFS). we lack reviewers.
23:50 Wuzzy not sure how i could help with that tho
23:51 Wuzzy I find reviewing PRs to be extremely inconvenient. I usually just wait until its merged before I actually start testing new features. 😛
23:53 LoneWolfHT Comprehensive review instructions would help a little bit in some cases
23:53 v-rob I'm fine with reviewing code; it's the testing that's annoying
23:54 LoneWolfHT I can't review code as I know C, not C++. Testing is what I'm best at
23:54 Wuzzy there should be a goal of keeping the open PR count low. if there are >100 open PRs open at all the time, its hard for your code to stand out. usually, only the newest PR have a chance of succeeding, while the old PRs usually fade into obscurity
23:55 Wuzzy but i also find it hard to find PRs that are *truly* closeworthy 🙁 the original contibutors are still somewhat active in it
23:55 v-rob The only way to get old PRs noticed is to bug the core devs on IRC, which a lot of people don't do because they don't know about IRC or are just too polite
23:56 Wuzzy not even that helps anymore, lol
23:56 Wuzzy after the 25th ping i almost gave up
23:57 Wuzzy as i said, we have way to few *official* reviewers. thats where the delays are coming from
23:57 MTDiscord <J​onathon> ^
23:58 Wuzzy lets talk about good reasons to kill a PR. i think Minetest is WAY to polite in keeping PRs open forever
23:58 MTDiscord <J​onathon> thats going to get you a lot of hate
23:59 Wuzzy not neccessarily
23:59 Wuzzy it really depends on what it is and how you do it
23:59 v-rob Depends on which PRs are being closed
23:59 Wuzzy the first rule should be that if you kill a PR you should say why. that should be obvious

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