Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2021-01-23

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
00:06 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
00:19 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
00:22 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
00:35 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
02:10 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
03:21 olliy joined #minetest-dev
04:16 pengolod joined #minetest-dev
04:49 pengolod left #minetest-dev
05:00 MTDiscord joined #minetest-dev
07:59 ronoaldo joined #minetest-dev
08:00 ShadowNinja joined #minetest-dev
09:04 Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev
09:06 zughy[m] joined #minetest-dev
09:06 BakerPrime_ joined #minetest-dev
09:19 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
09:35 LoneWolfHT joined #minetest-dev
09:37 zughy[m] joined #minetest-dev
09:43 Newbyte joined #minetest-dev
09:46 kb1000 joined #minetest-dev
09:46 freshreplicant[m joined #minetest-dev
09:46 Zughy[m]1 joined #minetest-dev
10:21 kb1000 joined #minetest-dev
10:58 ronoaldo joined #minetest-dev
11:03 giov4[m] joined #minetest-dev
11:03 Zughy[m]1 joined #minetest-dev
11:03 LoneWolfHT joined #minetest-dev
11:03 Newbyte joined #minetest-dev
11:03 zughy[m] joined #minetest-dev
11:03 freshreplicant[m joined #minetest-dev
11:03 _Zaizen_[m] joined #minetest-dev
11:42 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
12:01 proller joined #minetest-dev
12:13 pmp-p joined #minetest-dev
12:30 proller joined #minetest-dev
14:09 olliy joined #minetest-dev
14:46 Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev
15:17 proller joined #minetest-dev
15:18 calcul0n_ joined #minetest-dev
16:29 Lunatrius` joined #minetest-dev
16:44 Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev
16:49 Lunatrius` joined #minetest-dev
17:02 numzero joined #minetest-dev
17:54 fluxflux_ joined #minetest-dev
18:41 Krock Meeting in 20 minutes
18:58 nerzhul_ oh a meeting, what are the topics Krock ?
18:58 Zughy[m]1 https://dev.minetest.net/Meetings#2021-01-23
19:00 v-rob joined #minetest-dev
19:01 Krock nerzhul_: mainly 5.4.0 release stuff
19:02 nerzhul_ Krock: can i add a point about irrlicht and our future with it ? We are very hesitating on it, maybe we can thing about a 6.0 release with an embedded irrlicht with our fixes, overview. As a detached library first then we will see
19:03 Krock no idea how many 5.x.0 releases there will be but yes sure
19:04 nerzhul_ we may think about a 6.0 when this new library will be used as a replacement, or maybe when we start to use our own very close irrlicht if we decide it
19:05 Krock though it will result in additional effort for package maintainers and users to build Minetest if an external repostiroy is required (non-bundled)
19:05 Krock there's no way around I guess...
19:05 v-rob Why would it require a 6.0? It only immediately affects the build process, no?
19:05 sfan5 yes, it wouldn't require a 6.0
19:06 nerzhul_ it's a rupture in our dependency system, as you like in terms of naming, for me it's a major milestone in terms of project
19:06 nerzhul_ anyway let's discuss that after release point, ok ?
19:07 Krock now that we're already discussing the SDL/Irrlicht part we can just go ahead with this
19:07 Krock it needs to be discussed sometime anyway
19:08 Krock if possible, a dual system using the official Irrlicht branch and custom branch would be amazing. is that feasible or just unnecessary effort, nerzhul_ ?
19:08 nerzhul_ it's a very huge effort, but possible, the problem is that you want SDL which requires a rupture in the irrlicht AND mt parts :p
19:08 Krock so you'll probably need a separate branch for it
19:09 sfan5 why separate branch?
19:09 sfan5 so we can return to upstream irrlicht one day?
19:09 nerzhul_ i'm not sure regarding the project lifetime it's an option haha
19:09 nerzhul_ but a branch for the first developments is require
19:09 Krock I'm not sure if SDL2 should become a dependency right now or whether all changes are applied at once
19:10 Krock latter means a separate branch which then can be merged into master once it's ready
19:10 nerzhul_ someone said SDL2 has huge overhead in terms of binary
19:10 nerzhul_ at runtime
19:11 sfan5 I think we should integrate sdl in a way that code is still theoretically compatible with normal Irrlicht
19:11 Krock would be nice to know who said that, to judge what *huge* means in this context
19:11 sfan5 so not just replace SEvent with SDL_Event, but translate SDL events into SEvent in Irrlicht's code
19:11 Krock sfan5: but according to nerzhul_ that'll cause a lot more effort
19:11 v-rob As far as I can tell, one of the biggest problems with SDL is text input. SDL2 uses real IME input while Irrlicht has a `Char` field in KeyInput.  Instead of fixing this in Minetest, I would suggest making a polyfill from Irrlicht->SDL's events and not changing Minetest yet.
19:12 sfan5 Krock: well that doesn't have to literally be a seperate branch, more of a thoeretical possibility
19:12 sfan5 ...if you get what I mean by that
19:12 Krock I think I know what you mean, yes.
19:12 sfan5 v-rob: yeah we could add a wchar_t* to SEvent for that
19:13 sfan5 it will not be compatible with normal Irrlicht but it would not be far from it if there ever is need to use vanilla Irrlicht
19:13 sfan5 this would also be advantageous if we do not want to port Android to SDL2 immediately
19:13 nerzhul_ yep the keyboard handling in SDL2 is totally different
19:13 nerzhul_ then we must require our GUI parts
19:13 Krock is SDL2 a singular big blob, or can parts be imported individually, like the rendering/input part?
19:14 v-rob Trying to make IME in EditBox, the chat, etc. is likely to have errors and IMO belongs to the formspec replacement
19:14 nerzhul_ we should not use SDL2 rendering part except if you plan to replace GUI formspec with a SDL2 based other layout
19:14 v-rob I see no need for SDL's rendering API, mainly events and windowing
19:14 sfan5 agree ^
19:14 nerzhul_ we are close to that
19:15 Krock right. think of it as an example then. we won't need networking either
19:16 Krock maybe that's just be being too greedy
19:17 Calinou SDL rendering is pretty oudated, it's not hardware accelerated
19:17 Krock so initially, development on a separate Minetest branch, and merge once it's usable? Is that a plan, nerzhul_ ?
19:17 pgimeno Calinou: I presume we are talking about SDL-GL
19:17 v-rob Well, SDL_Surface is not hardware accllerated, but SDL_Texture is
19:18 pgimeno so the idea would be to keep Irrlicht for the scene graph and rendering? I have issues with that
19:18 Krock Irrlicht is an issue and the goal is to incrementally replace it
19:18 pgimeno I think it should eventually be replaced, and SDL is not a bad choice
19:18 nerzhul_ irrlicht jsut take the SDL_surface and does its opengl stuff on it, look at my branch
19:18 Krock user input just happens to be the first use-case
19:19 rubenwardy Calinou: we'd never be able to use SDL rendering, it's 2d
19:19 rubenwardy We're talking about its ability as an input library and window manager
19:19 Krock nerzhul_: so you added SDL2 as Irrlicht device which is then used for rendering, or am I seeing that wrong?
19:19 v-rob The only way to use SDL with 3D is through OpenGL, Vulkan, or Direct3d
19:20 nerzhul_ yes it's a thing like this
19:20 nerzhul_ and sdl2 is used for text input but it's not clear yet on the MT side
19:21 pgimeno if migrating allows dead keys (accents) to be typed, that would be awesome
19:22 v-rob It would eventually, but likely not immediately. It would also allow things like Chinese and other such languages as well
19:23 Krock okay. noted that. I'll update the entire Meeting wiki section after the other points are done
19:23 Krock just to have a rough overview of what's going to happen next
19:23 v-rob Along with improved joystick/game controller and touchscreen events
19:25 Krock okay. Starting with the 5.4.0 release topic
19:25 Krock ===============================
19:25 Krock all issues and PRs which should go into 5.4.0 should be marked by now
19:26 Krock according to rubenwardy (I believe), the desired freature freeze is today or in a week?
19:26 rubenwardy I reckon so
19:27 Krock other thoughts? I'd be okay with a freeze from today but in exchange the freeze might last longer for difficult issues
19:28 Krock Alpha textures now have a fix. the ContentDB issue for Windows should be easy to fix, given that someone can test it
19:29 Krock my concern is the get_player_information where no clear information about 5.4.0-dev is available
19:30 Krock from what I understand the problem is that the callbacks are run even after the player is kicked
19:31 sfan5 that's avoidable in mods
19:31 Krock i.e. mod issue and does not need fixing?
19:31 sfan5 the issue remains that the peer can disappear at any time before the player disappears
19:31 sfan5 or at least that's what I guess, haven't looked into this deeply
19:32 Krock so it's an async issue while unloading a player's data
19:32 sfan5 I have no idea about #9352 yet
19:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9352 -- minetest.get_player_information sometimes return nil (running at mod load, in singleplayer)
19:32 rubenwardy -> mod load
19:32 rubenwardy the singleplayer doesn't join until after mods load, right?
19:32 rubenwardy I should probably read more than the title
19:33 Krock okay. It would be nice to somehow reproduce this error reliably
19:33 sfan5 the title is wrong yea
19:33 numzero I’m working on using SDL for input now
19:33 numzero text input works
19:33 Krock numzero: thanks for the input. will note that.
19:34 numzero touch input almost works
19:34 v-rob Wait, are there two people working on SDL at the same time?
19:34 rubenwardy pun alert
19:34 Krock rubenwardy: intended
19:34 numzero I started my work off nerzhul’s branch
19:35 nerzhul_ numzero you have PR on my branches ? can be nice
19:36 numzero I have two branches now, one compatible with nerzhul’s (so he can pick commits from that) and one merged with ogl-es (Irrlicht 1.9)
19:36 Krock I'll also have a look at the player information issue but recently my time is also kinda limited
19:37 Krock let's see
19:38 Krock #10636
19:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10636 -- Improve touch event handling by numberZero
19:38 numzero as using SDL with Irrlicht 1.8 is kinda pointless, it doesn’t support all our target platforms
19:38 numzero so there will be need to use other Irrlicht version anyway
19:38 Krock Q: how many people already tested this?
19:38 Krock or rather, what's the state of the PR? mergeable?
19:39 rubenwardy I was going to, but then my computer ran out of storage and I got distracted on house keeping
19:39 rubenwardy also text wrapping
19:39 numzero Krock: depends on #10808
19:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10808 -- Improve irr_ptr by numberZero
19:39 rubenwardy implementing working word wrapping took much much longer than expected
19:39 numzero which has line length issues
19:39 Krock numzero: yes I saw that. shouldn't be a major concern.
19:39 Krock // clang-format off
19:39 Krock // clang-format on
19:40 Krock fixed
19:40 numzero which is possible to “fix”, or agree to #10792
19:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10792 -- Clang-format: increase column limit from 90 to 105 by Zughy
19:40 Krock how about Gradle? is that fixed in master?
19:41 Krock that's the other of the two failed builds/checks
19:41 sfan5 yes
19:41 Krock good. thanks.
19:42 rubenwardy TIL operator== is not commutative
19:43 Krock rubenwardy: but you'd have time in the next few weeks to test the input PR?
19:43 rubenwardy yeah
19:43 Krock thx
19:44 Krock #/10819
19:44 Krock #10819
19:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10819 -- [DONT SQUASH] Rework use_texture_alpha by sfan5
19:44 Krock I was going to test this like yesterday. Will give it a try again today by testing all registered nodes in a few games
19:45 Krock also backwards compat needs testing, which is unlikely covered by Lone_Wolf's review
19:46 Krock backwards compat from an old server -> new client and new server -> old client
19:47 Krock #10555
19:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10555 -- Mapgen settings in a game's minetest.conf get ignored
19:48 Krock does this have to be fixed for 5.4.0? IMO the only proper solution would be to once and for all clean up the settings structure in 310661
19:49 Krock #10661
19:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10661 -- [MANUAL SQUASH] Settings: Proper priority hierarchy by SmallJoker
19:49 Krock whereas I tested many cases, it is still a deep change and would like to get some feedback there in case the issue has priority
19:50 Krock also waiting for Casimir's answer to be sure
19:50 sfan5 settings stuff should be fixed for 5.4 IMO
19:52 Krock okay. I'll add the milestone to that PR because I don't think any other hacky method would work reliably due to overwriting issues
19:53 Krock so when's the feature freeze starting? give it some more time to find a solution for get_player_information, or put on a bit of pressure by starting it today?
19:53 Krock opinions?
19:54 sfan5 are there any feature PRs ready enough to get in?
19:54 sfan5 if not it doesn't really matter when the freeze starts
19:54 rubenwardy v-rob has a PR with approval
19:54 rubenwardy builtin translate is also close to being approved
19:55 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3AFeature+label%3A%22One+approval%22
19:55 Krock translated builtin would be indeed good to have
19:55 Fleckenstein joined #minetest-dev
19:55 Krock rubenwardy: are you talking about #10083
19:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10083 -- FormSpec: Add list spacing, slot size, and noclip by v-rob
19:56 rubenwardy yeah
19:56 rubenwardy it has approval, v-rob can merge if he's still happy with it
19:56 rubenwardy not important for 5.4.0 though, but well over due
19:56 v-rob Yeah, I'm still happy with it.
19:57 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
19:57 Krock looks good from a quick glance
19:57 v-rob PRs for it have been around for about three years now
19:57 Krock so merge that and start feature freeze today?
19:58 sfan5 I vote for starting it next week
19:58 Krock I also feel safer that way
19:58 rubenwardy fine by me
20:00 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
20:01 kilbith before you start to freeze, I remind you that I need that too: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10265
20:01 Krock !title
20:01 ShadowBot FormSpec: 9-slice images, animated_images, and fgimg_middle by v-rob · Pull Request #10265 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
20:01 rubenwardy I posted review comments for that, yet to be addressed
20:01 v-rob I can fix those today
20:01 kilbith thank you
20:03 Krock game#2803
20:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2803 -- Lossless PNG Compression by ExeVirus
20:04 Krock rubenwardy: what would you like to discuss?
20:04 rubenwardy What the issue is that prevents from doing this optimisation
20:04 Krock reading....
20:05 rubenwardy If it's just the leaves thing, then those have been whitelisted by the author to retain RGB when a=0
20:05 Krock I've seen that issue before
20:05 Krock game#2801
20:05 sfan5 the mipmapping done by the engine code(?) doesn't ignore transparent pixels
20:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2801 -- Foliage using allfaces_optional becomes too dark with distance (most leaf texture transparent pixels need improved colouring)
20:06 rubenwardy oh interesting, so you either break mipmapping or you break opaque leaves
20:07 Krock opaque leaves are a sin
20:07 sfan5 hence the transparent pixels need to still have colors
20:07 rubenwardy for Android I can seem them being worth it
20:08 v-rob I can live with opaque leaves; it's opaque water that I can't stand
20:09 Krock so either whitelist or compress the textures in a way without discarding the alpha colors
20:10 Krock I think the opaque leaves issue is less important than bad mipmapping
20:10 Krock IIRC that opaque mode is done using a certain color threshold
20:11 sfan5 or fix the code
20:11 Krock imageCleanTransparent  imagefilters.cpp
20:11 sfan5 but I don't know if the engine does the downscaling itself
20:11 rubenwardy that PR already whitelists to preserve alpha colors
20:13 Krock "The table of contents is too big for display. " thanks GitHub
20:14 Krock fixing the opaque mode then seems the best solution to me, in combination with whitelisted textures
20:15 Krock why whitelist? those textures that have alpha contents do show it most likely to the client
20:15 Krock exceptions are overlay textures
20:15 rubenwardy whitelist meaning that the optimiser doesn't remove the colors
20:16 Krock it's a matter of a few bytes whether there's color in alpha=0 pixels. not optimizing any texture using that method would also be a solution
20:17 rubenwardy exe_virus: thoughts?
20:17 MTDiscord <r​ubenwardy> @exe_virus
20:18 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> I already whitelisted those textures
20:18 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> There won't be any issues
20:18 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> It totals an extra like 200 bytes or so
20:19 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> The PR contains those whitelists. Though I want to go over those 30 one more time before it's officially merged, since I did that for the rest of the textures in mtg
20:20 MTDiscord <F​lamore> You mean paramat game?
20:20 rubenwardy exe: the suggestion is to not do it for all textures, to avoid the whitelist. Does that have a big effect?
20:21 rubenwardy well, I suppose it's unlikely we'll be adding more leaves given MTG is in feature freeze
20:21 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> All textures? Yeah it has a larger effect when we don't use 8-bit indexed for all textures.
20:21 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> But this is only an issue for allfaces drawtypes
20:22 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Hence the 30 that were reverted
20:22 Krock no, also an issue for plantlike
20:22 Calinou are opaque leaves worth supporting when we have simple (glasslike) leaves with denser textures?
20:22 Krock also glasslike and nodeboxes (glass)
20:23 Krock without alpha=0 colors those will also look bad from a distance
20:23 Mister_Q joined #minetest-dev
20:23 Krock but I doubt those have such colors already
20:23 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> No worries, the original PR in 2016 that originally reverted the textures is where I got the 30 files. I didn't question it but it's more than the 15 or so that should be allfaces.   If you want I can go back and revert any drawtypes you want, just give me the list
20:24 Krock it's just what came into my mind just now. I cannot reliably tell where exactly it's needed
20:24 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> So right now it's: Plantlike Allfaces+ Glasslike Glass-nodeboxes
20:24 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Gotcha am I looking for anything with transparency?
20:25 Krock textures where the transparency is shown to the client, and where the placed node looks bad from a distance
20:25 Krock sorry, I cannot give a better explanation than this
20:26 Krock (note: mipmapping must be enabled)
20:26 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Yeah, and you can't have a nvidia gpu
20:26 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Only amd or intel integrated with mipmapping has the issue
20:27 Krock can reproduce it on a GTX 1050
20:28 Krock the meeting is over, I presume.
20:28 Krock I don't have any additional points on the list and the wiki page is updated now
20:30 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Okay, I'll research what happens if we don't use 8-bit indexed mode for the pngs
20:31 kilbith Krock, well you forgot to mention inventory slot spacing but *sigh*
20:32 Krock oh sorry. I thought we were talking about the badly scaled mipmap textures. 8-bit indexed shouldn't have an influence there
20:32 Krock not sure though
20:32 Krock kilbith: I need to move the section so I'll add that now. thanks for pointing out
20:34 kilbith lhof<smth> would have talked about ZSTD in this meeting, too bad
20:35 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> We should have
20:35 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> I am clamoring for ZSTD
20:35 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> But I'm not a core dev haha
20:41 v-rob Any problems with me merging #10083?
20:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10083 -- FormSpec: Add list spacing, slot size, and noclip by v-rob
20:45 kilbith author being core-dev equals to a pre-approval
20:45 v-rob Just making sure no one had any issues with it
20:47 kilbith btw I noticed that hovering a hypertext[] with no scrollbar inside a scroll_container, blocks the container scrolling
20:48 kilbith solution: disable the scrolling of hypertext without scrollbar
20:48 v-rob Sounds like hypertext is eating the mouse event
20:48 kilbith yes
20:49 kilbith it should happen when there's actually a scrollbar when the content exceeds the limits
20:56 ronoaldo Hey! I have tested the PR from drag and drop improvements on both desktop and mobile with no issues, looks good in terms of not adding side effects on my phone, and fixes the drag on mobile
21:11 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
21:13 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
21:20 MTDiscord <e​xe_virus> Okay, @rubenwardy I closed the old mtg compression PR and opened a new one #2808. It only uses optipng.exe and does not change any bit depth settings, only strips metadata and attempts maximum zlib compression. Result still saves 93KB. Original PR only saved 11.2KB more, so not a big deal. Low hanging fruit first.
21:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2808 -- Add MoveSomewhere inventory action by est31
21:24 rubenwardy merging #10838 in 10
21:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10838 -- Do not close game on escape in error windows by yamanq
21:33 Zughy[m]1 #10792 comments addressed
21:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10792 -- Clang-format: increase column limit from 90 to 105 by Zughy
21:37 sfan5 do we know if clang-format still runs with those settings
21:40 rubenwardy yes it does
21:41 Seirdy joined #minetest-dev
21:41 sfan5 there's no CI run in the PR
21:41 rubenwardy the workflow will be broken then
21:42 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
21:42 rubenwardy .clang-format needs to be added to both paths in    .github/workflows/cpp_lint.yml
21:43 v-rob Addressed issues in #10265
21:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10265 -- FormSpec: 9-slice images, animated_images, and fgimg_middle by v-rob
21:43 rubenwardy thanks, I'll take a look later
21:46 kilbith v-rob, we can't set a spacing of 0 for slots of size < 1?
21:48 kilbith v-rob, https://i.imgur.com/uAwCDQH.png
21:49 kilbith size = 0.7; spacing = 0
21:52 v-rob Uhh, let me check that out
21:57 v-rob Oh gee, you're right. I did some calculations with imgsize instead of slot_scale. I will fix that right away.
22:17 Fixer_ joined #minetest-dev
22:21 kilbith v-rob, so?
22:22 v-rob Just compiled, making the PR now
22:26 kilbith testing
22:28 kilbith ok works as expected
22:35 rubenwardy v-rob: FYI: you can merge trivial bug fixes by yourself, you just need to announce in this channel with notice
22:37 v-rob ok
22:38 rubenwardy it has to be trivial (=small and unlikely to cause a problem) and has to be a bug fix
22:38 v-rob Right
22:39 v-rob Then, merging #10860 and #10861 in 10 minutes
22:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10860 -- Make hypertext and textarea have proper scroll event propagation by v-rob
22:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10861 -- Fix formspec list spacing by v-rob
22:42 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
23:24 kilbith_ joined #minetest-dev
23:49 kilbith_ okay there's another bug with list styling
23:50 kilbith_ v-rob?
23:56 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
23:57 kilbith #10862
23:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10862 -- Slot size of >1 ignores height size

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext