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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2019-12-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:58 rubenwardy Thanks
00:58 rubenwardy And good night
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13:11 Krock >.<
13:47 Krock What to do if Lua's garbage collector is not fast enough? GC makes it RAII compliant but deletion is delayed way too much
13:56 Krock will merge #9150 in 15 minutes
13:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9150 -- Attachments: Fix interpolation from (0,0,0) after detach by SmallJoker
13:59 Krock branch squashed & function renamed
14:11 Krock merging
14:14 Krock #8910 close as Can't Fix upstream issue?
14:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8910 -- Add PNG file name in PNG profile warnings
14:17 p_gimeno Krock: run collectgarbage manually?
14:18 Krock well that's among a :close() function a possibility
14:18 Krock but that's not instant RAII
14:22 ANAND Whoa, #9150 fixes all the camera offset bugs?
14:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9150 -- Attachments: Fix interpolation from (0,0,0) after detach by SmallJoker
14:28 Krock not sure
14:32 ANAND Seems to fix most of them, going by the closed issues :)
14:32 ANAND Awesome work, thanks!
14:32 Krock np
14:33 Krock however, objects attached to LocalPlayer's CAO still don't update instantly (for some reason not handled by Irrlicht)
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15:30 hecks How do I get the magical, consecrated libstdc DLL that the latest win64 build requires
15:30 hecks stealing it from sfan no longer works
15:30 sfan5 "latest win64 build" from where?
15:31 hecks from the buildbot, from git itself
15:31 hecks it doesn't pack three DLLs, libstdc, pthread and uh something
15:31 sfan5 git is a version control program
15:31 sfan5 do you mean gitlab?
15:31 hecks from the git REPO
15:31 hecks I usually steal the missing DLLs from your builds
15:31 sfan5 oh you've built it yourself
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15:32 sfan5 the DLLs you need come with the mingw toolchain installed on your system
15:32 hecks yeah, to test joker's merge from like an hour ago
15:33 sfan5 in /usr/x86_64-w64-mingw32/lib or similar
15:33 hecks oh they're there
15:33 hecks why thank you
16:08 Krock > Then maybe disable client-side predictions for drops altogether?
16:08 Krock ANAND: results in double-dropped items on laggy servers
16:08 Krock players expect that the item is dropped instantly
16:09 Krock same with nodes. you don't wait until the server confirms that it's really dug
16:09 Krock you'd end up waiting for the server confirmation that might arrive a second late
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19:14 Krock Well so... anyone here?
19:17 p_gimeno do I count?
19:17 Krock yeah, although I also hoped for some core developers
19:17 sfan5 hi
19:17 Krock tbh I wonder why something like #8665 is still open
19:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8665 -- Formspec: change the appearance of the cursor on fields and co. by DS-Minetest
19:17 Krock o/ sfan5
19:18 Krock the meeting points on the wiki could be way longer but adding more wouldn't help much at all
19:18 Krock concept discussions would probably fit best, rather than reviewing which happened in 0.4.x times
19:21 Krock nore, sofar: would you possibly have some free time to spend on a short dev meeting?
19:25 Krock back in 2014 there were Zeno, RBA, BlockMen and hmmmm helping to process the PRs and issues. in exchange there are now two new members, including me. Question is whether it would help to actively look for potential devs
19:27 Krock I actually also talked with rubenwardy and nore about the situation but we couldn't really recall someone who'd be interested in joining the team
19:28 Krock numberZero was a candidate, but he didn't seem to be interested or just disappeared
19:30 Krock p_gimeno: too bad you no longer have a GitHub account :/
19:30 p_gimeno easy fix, just migrate to GitLab ;)
19:31 p_gimeno couldn't resist, sorry
19:34 Krock fair enough. they didn't kill the golden goose yet, though.
19:35 p_gimeno I always follow this chat, and look at some issues from time to time and comment when I think it's appropriate
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19:38 Krock that's also a great way of contributing, even though the messages are lost if it's not a larger discussion
19:43 p_gimeno I'm out of the loop for the most part these days though, so it isn't very frequent. Last I remember is noting that the Irrlicht particles PR would bring back #8363. I could get motivated again though, but contributing this way is somewhat limiting.
19:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8363 -- Attached particle spawners no longer rotate with object
19:44 p_gimeno I tried for a long time playing with the Irrlicht particles PR to see if I could make attached particles work, which would automatically fix this, but I was unable.
19:45 Krock yet another camera shift issue?
19:53 p_gimeno I thought so, but then I tried at 0,0,0 and couldn't make it work there either
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20:04 rubenwardy p_gimeno: I've migrated to gitlab
20:06 p_gimeno rubenwardy: migrated what? can we now handle issues and PRs there?
20:06 Krock just him personally
20:06 p_gimeno ah
20:08 p_gimeno so, like the personal repos I guess
20:10 p_gimeno is that camera offset thing really necessary? can't a different approach work better than that? I don't think any other 3D project handles it that way
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20:10 sfan5 the offset approach is quite prone to bugs too
20:10 sfan5 as seen multiple ... times ... recently
20:11 p_gimeno gtg for a while sorry, will read the backlog later
20:11 Krock p_gimeno: you can try to disable it in client/camera.cpp (or set the offset values to > 33k)
20:11 Krock the issue is that the fastRaceRows vertices will have gaps in between
20:12 Krock it gets more noticeable the further you go from spawn
20:12 Krock *makeFastFace rows
20:13 Krock that's mainly because f32 are used to calculate the vertex positions
20:14 sfan5 hmm if it's so easy to disable maybe we could ask the issue reports to test with offsets disabled
20:14 sfan5 (regarding recent issues with entities, camera and attachments)
20:15 sfan5 would narrow the problem down by a lot
20:15 Krock well, if it doesn't work within 200m from (0,0,0) it's surely broken anyway
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20:15 Krock camera offset only matters when going further than 200m into one direction
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20:30 Krock > ./util/travis/script.sh: line 68: 12233 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) ${CMD}
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20:35 paramat i had to go out but am here from now on
20:37 Krock welcome. there's a long monologue in the logs.
20:38 Krock for now it might be best to check who could be added to the team
20:43 p_gimeno back, yeah I know that it's a precision issue, I just think there must be a better way to handle it
20:44 Krock offset each node?
20:44 Krock it would be more consistent but have the same bugs as 200m so after all it wouldn't matter at all
20:46 p_gimeno I'm not sure exactly how, but the general idea is that at render time, you subtract the camera position from every object somehow... maybe Irrlicht is not prepared to do that, I just know how I'd do it
20:46 p_gimeno think of it as a continuous offset, rather than discrete
20:47 p_gimeno if I want to translate that idea into code, I need to look into a lot of things
20:48 Krock offset = floor(pos)
20:48 Krock pos -= offset
20:49 p_gimeno why not offset = pos; pos = 0 ?
20:50 p_gimeno but I never know when to apply camera offset
20:50 Krock so to say - all SceneNodes would be relative to you
20:50 p_gimeno yes
20:51 Krock you need to apply the camera offset when dealing with Irrlicht SceneNodes. Only there.
20:51 p_gimeno I see
20:51 Krock the camera sets the origin (kinda)
20:51 Krock and all other SceneNodes are placed around it using the offset from the camera
20:52 p_gimeno it makes some sense, in that it's the AbsolutePosition calculation that screws the precision
20:53 paramat yes, i read logs
20:53 p_gimeno addition of big floats plus small floats destroys the precision of the small floats
20:54 Krock after all it's still needed to have the absolute position of entities for speed calculations - at least server-side
20:54 Krock and for client-side prediction as well
21:01 p_gimeno in the interval from 16K to 32K, a single has a precision of 1/512, i.e. you can go from 20000.0 to 20000.001953125 but not anywhere in between, that's ~2 mm but the accumulated error in the matrix computations will make things much worse
21:02 p_gimeno can the camera go far away from the player in any circumstances?
21:03 * Krock grammar-corrects the team discussion post
21:04 Krock p_gimeno: yes. attachments.
21:04 p_gimeno if it can't, player-relative coordinates could work, but for guaranteed results, camera-relative coordinates will always work
21:04 Krock when the player is attached to an entity, the model is in another location than the eyes
21:04 p_gimeno I see
21:04 Krock this is somewhat weird but the mods might depend on this
21:04 p_gimeno I don't think there are models >200 nodes big though :)
21:05 Krock see also: game.cpp ->getEyeOffset
21:05 p_gimeno or, well, things probably aren't expected to work flawlessly in such cases
21:05 Krock no. 200m is a safe distance for likely all use-cases in Minetest
21:13 p_gimeno so what happens when a 200m barrier is crossed? are all scene nodes moved?
21:14 Krock AFAIK detached and re-attached to the scene
21:14 Krock content_cao.cpp GenericCAO::step() when the visuals expired
21:15 p_gimeno would doing that every frame be too much?
21:15 p_gimeno I'll look, thanks
21:15 Krock "AFAIK" because I'm not 100% sure whether that's exactly executed when passing the barrier
21:15 Krock I didn't measure the time but I'd expect more imprecisions due to position movements
21:17 Krock if you detach the SceneNode, the position in the map remains the same but is no longer relative to its parent
21:17 Krock rather - relative to the origin (0,0,0)
21:18 Krock moving the origin could btw mess up the entire mapblock mesh placement. just so that I mentioned it
21:19 p_gimeno I think that the authoritative source for the object position is what's used to re-add the object to the scene, i.e. there's no accumulated error. Otherwise it could be a chaos.
21:20 p_gimeno or, well, I *hope* it's done that way
21:21 Krock *shrug*
21:29 paramat #1119
21:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1119 -- Fix rendering glitches when far from the center of the map by Ekdohibs
21:29 paramat 'every frame' sounds scary
21:44 rubenwardy I'm around now
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21:58 p_gimeno https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1119/commits/da63e5863b83e9b8bf18faa6bb6479b69838d382#diff-c2f90db5de8c33a259c27113939c63c5R1417
21:58 p_gimeno I guess that's costly to do it once per frame
22:02 p_gimeno also, it's incremental, i.e. subject to accumulated error
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22:38 sfan5 merging #8813 in 5 minutes
22:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8813 -- Clean up craft replacements docs by pauloue
22:39 sfan5 also #9173
22:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9173 -- Run luacheck in travis by rubenwardy
22:50 sfan5 ...
22:50 sfan5 merged
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