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| 16:54 |
paramat |
well tested and ready #8473 |
| 16:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8473 -- Dungeons: Settable density noise, move number calculation to mapgens by paramat |
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| 20:03 |
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| 20:12 |
Krock |
paramat: why do you make it a pointer in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8473/files#diff-a36a0ee19e510b3bdb49d816a1198c3dR286 but in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8473/files#diff-4e367915b1e5eb6f277dea42041d9416R111 ? |
| 20:16 |
paramat |
i guess you mean '... but not in ...'. erm, because it works this way =) i'm not good with pointers |
| 20:18 |
paramat |
i can't remember why actually, it might be wrong |
| 20:21 |
paramat |
oh, it might be because mgv6 doesn't use class 'mapgenbasic' |
| 20:21 |
paramat |
'mapgenbasic' is something shared between all the other mapgens |
| 20:23 |
paramat |
as far as i can remember, i changed what i needed to change to avoid compilation errors, and this is how it turned out. but yes it could be wrong as i don't fully understand the use of pointers |
| 20:24 |
* Krock |
checks out |
| 20:26 |
Krock |
pointers aren't that complicated. they just point to the memory where the actual data is |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:31 |
Krock |
I now see how this worked with pointers. The noise parameters originate from the map settings which are read once, and kept in memory until the server is shut down |
| 20:32 |
Krock |
ServerMap::settings_mgr |
| 20:34 |
Krock |
paramat: May I push a commit onto your branch to adjust the dungeon noise parameter member type to the ones from cave1/cave2? |
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| 21:27 |
paramat |
sorry, was away. can i view your change first? |
| 21:30 |
paramat |
i don't understand what you mean by 'adjust member type'. is this to correct a mistake? |
| 21:31 |
paramat |
afk for 30 mins |
| 21:51 |
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| 21:52 |
paramat |
thanks for the offer but i prefer to make the change myself, to keep this PR simple. please could you paste your patch diff in a comment? |
| 21:52 |
paramat |
oh they're gone heh |
| 21:59 |
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| 23:13 |
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| 23:25 |
VanessaE |
Minetest needs a shorter disconnect timeout, I've got players who report having been disconnected (nevermind the reason) still being able to play for several minutes before the client goes "HEY, it broke!". |
| 23:25 |
VanessaE |
if there's some kind of keepalive that keeps running even when the server is lagging (i.e. some separate thread), then 30s seems more reasonable. |
| 23:26 |
p_gimeno |
I've had lags of more than 1 minute |
| 23:26 |
VanessaE |
yeah but I mean if the actual network connection is still alive. |
| 23:27 |
VanessaE |
nevermind if the server's being bogged down by Lua. |
| 23:27 |
VanessaE |
even 1 minute is a LONG time when you're actively building. |
| 23:27 |
VanessaE |
the client maybe ought to display a warning somewhere, too, if the connection goes down for more than, say, 10s. Just some icon in a corner of the window that suggests a broken network connection |
| 23:28 |
VanessaE |
(i.e. something totally passive, that goes away on its own, without interrupting the player) |
| 23:28 |
p_gimeno |
I may be wrong, but I think that if the server is bogged down by Lua for long enough, you get a timeout because nothing keeps the connection alive |
| 23:29 |
VanessaE |
well that needs to be corrected imho. my reasoning is simple: if it's engine/Lua lag, then everything the player has done during the lag should theoretically be applied when the server catches up, but if the underlying network dies, the player needs to know that his/her actions are about to be discarded. |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
hence that icon I suggested. |
| 23:32 |
p_gimeno |
ok, if I understand it correctly, you propose adding a keepalive thread that informs the client that the server keeps the connection open |
| 23:33 |
VanessaE |
actually, I was assuming such a thread already existed, and should used to improve UX. |
| 23:33 |
VanessaE |
I mean, isn't there *already* a periodic keepalive packet?> |
| 23:33 |
VanessaE |
like every 10s or something? |
| 23:34 |
p_gimeno |
I'm not into how the networking works, I guess there's something, but I don't think there's a thread dedicated to it |
| 23:35 |
VanessaE |
yeah, looking at F5, looks like there's a periodic keepalive, every 2-4 seconds. |
| 23:36 |
p_gimeno |
AFAIK the threads are 1 server, 1 client and N emerge |
| 23:37 |
p_gimeno |
(where the server thread deals with Lua, network and everything else) |
| 23:37 |
VanessaE |
huh. I thought there were moree. |
| 23:37 |
VanessaE |
-e |
| 23:37 |
VanessaE |
well that needs corrected for sure. this ain't 1990, processors aren't limited to just one core anymore :P |
| 23:38 |
VanessaE |
having a user sit there actively building only to find they have been disconnected for the last 5 mins is bad UX. |
| 23:39 |
VanessaE |
think of it like a website. how long does a browser give the site to respond before timing out? |
| 23:40 |
VanessaE |
about 1 minute isn't it? even that's way too long; the user won't give a site more than 5-10 seconds before they move on, so says some studies I've read about (6s being the average) |
| 23:41 |
p_gimeno |
yeah but as everything, you have to find someone to bell that cat, and threaded code is very delicate and prone to bugs that are very hard to find and trace |
| 23:41 |
VanessaE |
I Know. |
| 23:42 |
VanessaE |
mod coding is like that. it may all be single-threaded, but in a complex mod that also happens to be very fast, you get a lot of the behavior of a multi-threaded environment. |
| 23:44 |
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| 23:48 |
VanessaE |
still, I hope you agree with the basic premise that letting the player build when they're not even online is generally a bad idea :) |
| 23:49 |
p_gimeno |
yeah I agree, I just see the effort to implement that a bit unbalanced with the benefit |
| 23:50 |
VanessaE |
I dunno.. |
| 23:51 |
VanessaE |
servers crash. a lot. |
| 23:51 |
VanessaE |
often without closing the connection properly. |
| 23:52 |
VanessaE |
the "5 minute" thing refers to one that happened today, due to an ordinary mod bug |
| 23:52 |
VanessaE |
somehow, the server went down just hard enough that some clients didn't get a proper disconnect |
| 23:53 |
VanessaE |
yesterday, I did a routine reboot (killall -INT minetestserver) to bring in some mod updates, and one of my players (different person) reported having been disconnected for a solid 2 minutes before the client threw an error. |
