| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:27 |
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| 07:29 |
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| 07:59 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, since you're here what's your view on #6932? |
| 07:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6932 -- Remove CSM screenshot API by red-001 |
| 08:09 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i prefer implementing a rate limit and a client setting |
| 08:09 |
nerzhul |
if user wants to use a mod to automagically generate screens to show its life on game why not |
| 08:10 |
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| 08:10 |
red-001 |
it's just that no-one wrote rate-limiting for it and even with rate limiting I would prefer if it required user interaction to enable |
| 08:10 |
nerzhul |
yes, |
| 08:10 |
red-001 |
kinda like the way browsers ask the users before letting websites use certain features |
| 08:10 |
nerzhul |
rate limit + client setting by default to false |
| 08:11 |
red-001 |
s/users/user |
| 08:14 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, how hard would it be to isolate mods from each other in thier own lua_state and do we even want to do that? |
| 08:15 |
nerzhul |
it's not difficult except for the callback functions |
| 08:16 |
nerzhul |
it needs to be handled client side |
| 08:16 |
nerzhul |
instead of lua side |
| 08:17 |
red-001 |
is it only me or does travis take a lot longer to build stuff now? |
| 08:18 |
red-001 |
updated 6067 yesterday and travis is still waiting with the xcode build |
| 08:19 |
nerzhul |
macosx build is long to start since the begininng of the week and some builds randomly failed |
| 08:19 |
nerzhul |
maybe it's due to the CPU patching on AWS cloud, some performance dropdown cna happen too |
| 08:20 |
red-001 |
maybe |
| 08:20 |
red-001 |
I would guess OS X uses more resources then thier linux setup |
| 08:21 |
nerzhul |
yeah |
| 08:21 |
red-001 |
oh I see looks like they can/are allowed only 180 active OS X VM's at a time |
| 08:21 |
nerzhul |
it's not just a docker container |
| 08:23 |
red-001 |
and they have a backlog in the thousands of builds |
| 08:24 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, do we use the container for the linux or a full vm? |
| 08:27 |
nerzhul |
it's always container on linux on travis if i remember |
| 08:27 |
nerzhul |
but you cannot choose which |
| 08:28 |
nerzhul |
on gitlab CI we use various different container |
| 08:34 |
red-001 |
looks like you can choose for Ubuntu Trusty but not for Precise or OS X |
| 08:35 |
nerzhul |
yes |
| 08:37 |
red-001 |
looks like we use the full vm for all the builds |
| 09:58 |
|
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| 10:22 |
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Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:23 |
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| 10:46 |
red-001 |
#6072 #6067 |
| 10:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6072 -- [CSM] Add functions to create particles and particlespawners. by red-001 |
| 10:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6067 -- [CSM] Add basic HUD manipulation. by red-001 |
| 11:09 |
nerzhul |
red-001, the chat6 submodule is an error no ? |
| 11:11 |
red-001 |
yes |
| 11:11 |
red-001 |
which one did I add that too? |
| 11:12 |
nerzhul |
you also added your cmake configuration files :) |
| 11:18 |
red-001 |
fixed |
| 11:18 |
red-001 |
added the files to gitignore |
| 11:42 |
|
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| 11:51 |
nerzhul |
red-001, approved both PR |
| 11:51 |
nerzhul |
we need a second approval and we will have those useful features |
| 12:05 |
Krock |
red-001, hud.cpp is missing in the android makefile |
| 12:06 |
* red-001 |
grumbles something about auto-generating files |
| 12:11 |
red-001 |
Krock, fixed |
| 12:47 |
red-001 |
Krock, fixed your remaining issue with #6067 |
| 12:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6067 -- [CSM] Add basic HUD manipulation. by red-001 |
| 12:50 |
Krock |
200 |
| 12:53 |
red-001 |
505 |
| 13:08 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:09 |
nerzhul |
merging #6067 |
| 13:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6067 -- [CSM] Add basic HUD manipulation. by red-001 |
| 13:09 |
nerzhul |
thanks red-001 |
| 13:10 |
nerzhul |
macosx build is stuck |
| 13:11 |
red-001 |
there is a backlog of close to 3000 builds last I checked |
| 13:12 |
red-001 |
so I imagine it will be like that for a while |
| 13:14 |
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| 13:18 |
nerzhul |
Krock, #6884 is now fixed (we will see if it's okay on travis) |
| 13:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6884 -- Game refactor: reduce game.cpp size by moving objects in the right places by nerzhul |
| 13:30 |
|
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| 13:48 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, can you cancel https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/builds/331191378?utm_source=github_status&utm_medium=notification ? |
| 13:48 |
red-001 |
oh nvm looks like they fixed builds not being canceled on force push |
| 13:48 |
red-001 |
about time they did imo |
| 14:06 |
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| 14:17 |
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| 14:26 |
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| 15:22 |
paramat |
sfan5 sofar ShadowNinja are you ok with Shara as a new MTG dev? |
| 15:25 |
nore |
paramat: fyi, sofar is not on this channel |
| 15:25 |
red-001 |
who are the MTG devs anyways? |
| 15:25 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 15:25 |
red-001 |
I'm never quite sure of who is a core dev and who is a MTG dev |
| 15:26 |
paramat |
it's .. |
| 15:26 |
sfan5 |
paramat: I'm fine with that |
| 15:26 |
paramat |
ok |
| 15:26 |
sfan5 |
hmm maybe we should have a separate group for mtg-only devs: https://github.com/orgs/minetest/teams |
| 15:26 |
paramat |
^ yes |
| 15:26 |
paramat |
i almost suggested that yesterday |
| 15:27 |
paramat |
even if only for documentation |
| 15:27 |
red-001 |
would be useful if you split collborators into two groups and have one for the minetest repo and the other group for the minetest_game repo |
| 15:28 |
red-001 |
seems there is often a good bit of confusion due to this |
| 15:28 |
paramat |
Pilz (absent), sfan, nor-e, Kroc-k, ruben-, me, so-far, shadow-ninj |
| 15:28 |
red-001 |
and it's easily avoidiable |
| 15:28 |
paramat |
so-far shadow-ninj are inactive |
| 15:29 |
red-001 |
Pilz isn't around at all as far as I see |
| 15:29 |
red-001 |
not for quite a while now |
| 15:29 |
paramat |
in fact i think pilz is somewhat fired for absence :) |
| 15:30 |
red-001 |
README.MD sure needs some work |
| 15:30 |
red-001 |
it still calls itself readme.txt.... |
| 15:30 |
red-001 |
oh the readme file in MTG wasn't renamed |
| 15:31 |
red-001 |
paramat, so 11 isn't an MTG dev? |
| 15:32 |
paramat |
correct |
| 15:32 |
Krock |
red-001, all devs are in the minetest group |
| 15:34 |
red-001 |
Krock, that would seem logical but wanted to confirm |
| 15:35 |
red-001 |
I was almost sure there was talk of a new dev a while back but I saw no-one new on that page |
| 15:37 |
nerzhul |
merging #6884 |
| 15:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6884 -- Game refactor: reduce game.cpp size by moving objects in the right places by nerzhul |
| 15:37 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i think README.md is too huge, maybe it should be splited to have only a description and links to specific sections in dedicated files |
| 15:38 |
nerzhul |
paramat, i never see pilzadam since 2 years on this channel |
| 15:39 |
paramat |
but then, some devs are absent long term and we don't kick them, so i guess pilz remains a core dev but can be assumed not a MTG dev |
| 15:40 |
red-001 |
also with all these CSM security related issues being marked as high priority and blocker then so should #5989 |
| 15:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5989 -- [CSM] Inventory changes are sent to server instead of being handled by a local callback. |
| 15:40 |
red-001 |
it's a much larger issue then just reading nodes or sending text |
| 15:40 |
nerzhul |
paramat, i don't think a very long time inactive coredev can be a coredev as in 2 years the project technic, politic can change many |
| 15:41 |
nerzhul |
red-001, it's completely relalted to the whole formspec stuff :( |
| 15:44 |
red-001 |
if hashing built-in at compile time is a blocker then that almost certainly should be too |
| 15:44 |
nerzhul |
yes |
| 15:44 |
nerzhul |
paramat, a 0.5.0/0.4.17 release date has been defined or not ? |
| 15:46 |
red-001 |
as for hashing builtin just move the death formspec back to core or something if it's that important, hashing builtin is the most pointless security measure I heard of in a long time |
| 15:48 |
red-001 |
the issue should be marked "can't-fix" and "non-trivial" judging by the precident set by #6114, but that's just my opinion |
| 15:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6114 -- Detection of dirty clients |
| 15:57 |
nerzhul |
please look at #6936 :) could be nice to have |
| 15:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6936 -- Add minetest issue template by nerzhul |
| 15:59 |
paramat |
so moving death formspec back will avoid having to verify builtin? if moved would we then revert part of https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/308bb69eefdfb2ff3b893c124ccf0321d99a1bfd ? |
| 16:00 |
red-001 |
it's as simple as adding a fallback formspec or just remove that little piece of lua code and adding it to c++ |
| 16:03 |
red-001 |
there might be some other stuff you might need to change but all of it si trival compare to creating a cross platform way to get the hash for all the files in builtin at compile time and then refuse to run if they change by runtime |
| 16:03 |
red-001 |
s/si/is |
| 16:04 |
red-001 |
I mean at that stage you might as well just implement #6114, chances are that would be simpler to do |
| 16:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6114 -- Detection of dirty clients |
| 16:04 |
red-001 |
(getting the hash of a file at runtime vs at compile time) |
| 16:12 |
paramat |
!tell nerzhul sorry, i didn't reply about release dates. nothing defined yet, we're hoping for lord fingle and others to work on android and get it reasonable before release, so maybe 2+ months? |
| 16:12 |
ShadowBot |
paramat: O.K. |
| 16:12 |
paramat |
hmm |
| 16:14 |
red-001 |
has anyone sent him an email or something, he seems to have disappeared after that competition he was in ended. |
| 16:14 |
paramat |
yes i'm in touch |
| 16:14 |
paramat |
by PM on forum |
| 16:14 |
paramat |
a few days ago he said 'soon' |
| 16:37 |
|
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| 17:40 |
|
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| 17:46 |
lisac |
paramat: maybe MT could have a small proprietary anti-cheat part |
| 17:46 |
lisac |
which server needs to somehow detect in order to approve it as the official client |
| 17:47 |
lisac |
for example, maybe it could be a function that takes in a number, then calculates and returns another number |
| 17:47 |
lisac |
server generates a number, sends it to the client, which returns the result |
| 17:47 |
lisac |
if they match, it's the real client |
| 17:48 |
lisac |
if not, just kick the client. |
| 17:48 |
lisac |
if you build your own Minetest, you can download the compiled anticheat library part |
| 17:48 |
lisac |
and set your client to use it |
| 17:50 |
CBugDCoder |
sounds like a good idea but hacked clients could set themselves to use it too so how would it do anything? |
| 17:50 |
lisac |
oh |
| 17:50 |
lisac |
lol right |
| 17:50 |
lisac |
fml |
| 17:51 |
lisac |
you could just build it in the official mt clients |
| 17:51 |
lisac |
which prevents custom builds now. |
| 17:51 |
lisac |
nah |
| 17:51 |
lisac |
hey, why not render everything on server and just receive input from client? Make client just play a video server sends. |
| 17:52 |
lisac |
cheating would be impossible. :P |
| 17:52 |
CBugDCoder |
but that would be sooooooooo laggy especialy on popular servers |
| 17:53 |
pgimeno |
not to mention the bandwidth requirements |
| 17:53 |
nore |
<lisac> paramat: maybe MT could have a small proprietary anti-cheat part <-- this is not happening |
| 17:53 |
nore |
and won't be |
| 17:54 |
lisac |
nore: yes, I'm just thinking out loud |
| 17:54 |
nore |
minetest is an open-source project, and we won't force to include proprietary code in it |
| 17:54 |
lisac |
or maybe we could have a better server side anticheat |
| 17:54 |
nore |
this is the correct solution |
| 17:55 |
lisac |
what are the most used cheats currently? |
| 17:55 |
lisac |
Probably flying and noclip. Easiest to implement |
| 17:55 |
lisac |
Flying is already really slowed down by the anticheat: very annoying to use. |
| 17:55 |
lisac |
same for running. |
| 17:56 |
lisac |
Some servers damage you while you are in walls without noclip priv. |
| 17:58 |
Hijiri |
#6688 |
| 17:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6688 -- Custom particle generators for particle spawners by raymoo |
| 18:01 |
lisac |
nore: maybe check if there is a node under player in PlayerSAO::checkMovementCheat(), then if the player is falling, or climbing, or has fly priv, and that way find out if he is fly-cheating? |
| 18:03 |
Shara |
lisac: anticheat does nothign against flying from what I know. It just interferes with fast, which is not the same thing. |
| 18:03 |
lisac |
Shara: try flying around without fast. It's annoying. :P |
| 18:03 |
lisac |
but yes, still possible to cheat. |
| 18:03 |
Shara |
That's your (and my) personal preference, but when you don't have fast anyway, anying already grants a huge advantage |
| 18:04 |
Shara |
flying* |
| 18:04 |
lisac |
I agree. We need a server side anti-fly |
| 18:04 |
lisac |
or anti-fly-cheat |
| 18:07 |
Shara |
Noclip is probably the biggest issue when it comes to cheating, at least from my experience (breaking into other players homes or safe areas when PVP is enabled) |
| 18:07 |
|
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| 18:07 |
Shara |
And you only need to fly for a moment, at any speed at all, to abuse that |
| 18:07 |
lisac |
hey nerzhul |
| 18:07 |
nerzhul |
hi lisac |
| 18:08 |
lisac |
<red-001> has anyone sent him an email or something, he seems to have disappeared after that competition he was in ended. |
| 18:08 |
lisac |
red-001 seems to have been looking for you, nerzhul |
| 18:08 |
nerzhul |
paramat, 2 months sounds reasonable, i need to test android build at a time |
| 18:08 |
nerzhul |
i'm there for a time |
| 18:08 |
lisac |
Shara: you could make a mod that checks if player is inside nodes |
| 18:08 |
Raven262 |
NO, he wasn't looking for nerzhul. |
| 18:08 |
Raven262 |
Read the logs again. |
| 18:08 |
lisac |
if he is inside nodes a lot of times in a short time, kick him |
| 18:08 |
Shara |
Yes, but think how frequently that has to check to actually be useful |
| 18:08 |
lisac |
Raven262: thanks I'll check |
| 18:09 |
nerzhul |
Raven262, if he needs me he will talk to me, then no real discussion there: p |
| 18:09 |
Raven262 |
Just saying, sorry. |
| 18:09 |
Shara |
And there's enough legitimate reasons (falling nodes dropping on players) for that |
| 18:10 |
lisac |
Shara: which is why you check for a lot of nodes in a short period, like 5 nodes in 10 seconds |
| 18:10 |
lisac |
either the player is drowning in bugged sand, or he is hacking. |
| 18:10 |
lisac |
bonus if you check if the positions of the five nodes are different |
| 18:10 |
Shara |
Still lots of checks. Too many on a busy server |
| 18:11 |
pgimeno |
anti-fly might be as simple as: check how many nodes under the player are air (stop at first non-air node) |
| 18:11 |
Shara |
And it won't even detect the issue I mainly have |
| 18:11 |
nerzhul |
paramat, Krock sfan5 rubenwardy nore , can you all look at #6936, it's an issue template to help our users to fill issues, it's basic and can be improved before merge or after |
| 18:11 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6936 -- Add minetest issue template by nerzhul |
| 18:13 |
lisac |
pgimeno_: what about ladders and jumping? |
| 18:13 |
lisac |
and falling? |
| 18:14 |
Shara |
And trampolines that bounce players more than normal, and gravity changes and so on. Lots of things make it not so simple |
| 18:15 |
lisac |
Shara: what about kick/ban votes? |
| 18:15 |
lisac |
have a mod that allows players to call a vote to kick or ban another player |
| 18:15 |
lisac |
would work for the time being |
| 18:15 |
lisac |
until proper anti cheat |
| 18:15 |
Shara |
That's not really relevant to the problem, and introduces lots of issues of its own |
| 18:16 |
lisac |
it is the most basic form of anti cheat |
| 18:16 |
lisac |
have other players report the issue |
| 18:16 |
pgimeno_ |
lisac: ladders are nodes you're into. Jumping is not a problem. Falling is not a problem either, just detect constant or increasing height. Trampolines are the real problem here IMO. The mod should have a function to override the anti-cheat. |
| 18:16 |
paramat |
ok |
| 18:17 |
Shara |
It's not a fix for the actual issue. Andit's also something I'll never implement due to all the other problems (also I think not relelvant for -dev) |
| 18:17 |
lisac |
pgimeno_: Don't trampolines just set the players gravity to another value? |
| 18:18 |
paramat |
#6217 is server validation of client movement and is progressing |
| 18:18 |
Shara |
I'd love a solution for fly/noclip cheating, but a mod won't cut it |
| 18:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6217 -- Step height: Add as a player object property by paramat |
| 18:18 |
paramat |
agh |
| 18:18 |
paramat |
#6219 |
| 18:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6219 -- WIP: Server side movement by bendeutsch |
| 18:19 |
Shara |
Glad he is still working on that |
| 18:20 |
nerzhul |
paramat, i doesn't want to hurry up for 6219 it's a very sensible thing to code server side and network latency doesn't help |
| 18:23 |
pgimeno_ |
lisac: I don't know. If that's the case, then it would not be a problem, as the number of nodes under the played can easily take into account gravity. I assumed a trampoline was a one-time impulse, which breaks my assumptions. It can still be detected as a parabolic movement, but network latency can screw that up as nerzul notes. |
| 18:23 |
lisac |
IIRC, Raven262's Warzone mod jumppads use physics overrides https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15199 |
| 18:25 |
Raven262 |
There are two ways to do the trampoline effect. One is a grav override other is a node group. |
| 18:26 |
Raven262 |
I have used the override, other way was unknown to me and it would limit me to a much weaker effect. |
| 18:28 |
pgimeno_ |
hm, 6219 looks like reimplementing client physics server side, which is going to be slow - you could as well do all physics on the server and just send the result to the client, which is what SL does |
| 18:28 |
lisac |
SL==Second Life? |
| 18:29 |
pgimeno_ |
yes |
| 18:29 |
lisac |
I found the servers I tried a bit laggy |
| 18:29 |
lisac |
not that I played more than 20 minutes of it |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
pgimeno_, client-side prediction, server-side reconcilliation |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:30 |
rubenwardy |
both sides should do player physics, but the server should take priority and correct and miscalculations client-side |
| 18:39 |
Krock |
nerzhul, the issue template should also say something like "I have checked whether there are duplicate issues" |
| 18:52 |
lisac |
and probably 'I checked if my build is clean' |
| 18:52 |
nerzhul |
Krock, please add comment on the PR i will improve it :p |
| 18:59 |
paramat |
sfan5 does #6072 have your approval now? |
| 18:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6072 -- [CSM] Add functions to create particles and particlespawners. by red-001 |
| 18:59 |
sfan5 |
I haven't tested, but the code is fine |
| 19:05 |
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| 20:45 |
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| 21:24 |
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| 21:31 |
red-001 |
#6940 |
| 21:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6940 -- Fix issues with earlier CSM HUD commit by red-001 |
| 21:44 |
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| 22:30 |
nerzhul |
merging #6936 |
| 22:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6936 -- Add minetest issue template by nerzhul |
| 22:30 |
nerzhul |
and #6072 |
| 22:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6072 -- [CSM] Add functions to create particles and particlespawners. by red-001 |
| 22:32 |
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| 22:55 |
red-001 |
#6939 |
| 22:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6939 -- [CSM] on_connect callback is broken. |
| 22:55 |
nerzhul |
red-001, #6941 |
| 22:55 |
nerzhul |
:p |
| 22:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6941 -- [CSM] Remove `on_connect` callback by red-001 |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, if you are okay i merge this trivial removal |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
as this callback is useless since flavours as it cannot be triggered |
| 22:59 |
sofar |
is core.localplayer then always valid? |
| 23:00 |
nerzhul |
yes |
| 23:00 |
nerzhul |
if i remember it's set when the CSM is inited |
| 23:01 |
nerzhul |
before any mod loading |
| 23:01 |
red-001 |
yep it was set just before the on_connect callback was called |
| 23:01 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6941/files#diff-34f48ad91ac6c202ac60b0348ae90e30L1700 |
| 23:11 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:49 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev |
