| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:03 |
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lhofhansl joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:16 |
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YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:19 |
lhofhansl |
Anybody here? |
| 00:23 |
ThomasMonroe |
yeah, sorta |
| 00:38 |
lhofhansl |
He he. I wonder whether I can get a review for #6723, #6721, and #6667 |
| 00:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6723 -- Allow Irrlicht caching of animated meshes by lhofhansl |
| 00:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6721 -- Limit active object step time budget by lhofhansl |
| 00:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6667 -- Improve active object behavior - extend active object in view direction. by lhofhansl |
| 00:38 |
lhofhansl |
They kinda all go together. |
| 00:41 |
ThomasMonroe |
hmm sounds interesting, though not sure about #6667 |
| 00:41 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6667 -- Improve active object behavior - extend active object in view direction. by lhofhansl |
| 01:03 |
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| 01:05 |
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| 01:05 |
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| 01:25 |
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| 02:05 |
lhofhansl |
ThomasMonroe: #6667 is needed to avoid having mobs simply vanish when they go out of sight. Cannot simply extend the active object radius; it's too expensive on the server. So there a inner radius where they are active, and an extended radius where they are only active inside the view cone (which saves 90-99% of the server work) |
| 02:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6667 -- Improve active object behavior - extend active object in view direction. by lhofhansl |
| 02:10 |
ThomasMonroe |
ah ok thanks for clarification |
| 02:25 |
lhofhansl |
I clarified the description. It's also configurable (server side), default is off. |
| 02:27 |
ThomasMonroe |
seems like a good thing to implement then |
| 02:31 |
paramat |
lhofhansl #6729 in case you haven't seen it |
| 02:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6729 -- Some particles do not render after 6be6fb78 |
| 02:52 |
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| 03:00 |
lhofhansl |
Took a look. Not sure what do you. Textures are scaled so they're not blurred too much. The rain textures seems to have incidentally relied on this. |
| 03:04 |
lhofhansl |
We shouldn't scale *all* textures because of this. (used memory on the client) |
| 03:05 |
lhofhansl |
We can of course revert that change. |
| 04:18 |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:04 |
paramat |
celeron55 please could you consider #6662 sometime, as our 'conflict resolver'? very concerning how unhappy our top server owners are |
| 06:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6662 -- CSM causes security issues |
| 06:55 |
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| 07:04 |
celeron55 |
it's a lot of backlash for sure |
| 07:04 |
celeron55 |
also, there's barely any middle ground that makes sense |
| 07:04 |
celeron55 |
to be taken, that is |
| 07:05 |
celeron55 |
i mean seriously, it's a real possibility that we just need to rip out CSM and live without it |
| 07:06 |
celeron55 |
it's useless to try to be idealistic about it |
| 07:10 |
celeron55 |
but i think people are misjudging the effect of CSM; cheating has been on the rise anyway |
| 07:10 |
celeron55 |
it's a really bad time to be fueling cheating with CSM though |
| 07:14 |
sofar |
can't ignore the cheating by waving away csm |
| 07:14 |
sofar |
we need some serious action on that side |
| 07:14 |
celeron55 |
of course not, but you can't fix it in a short timespan at all |
| 07:14 |
sofar |
and if people who run servers aren't jumping in, they are just as guilty as cheaters |
| 07:15 |
sofar |
they're effectively enabling it |
| 07:15 |
sofar |
I agree there should be a compromise btw |
| 07:15 |
VanessaE |
I'd jump in but my typing is compromised. I can't keep up. |
| 07:15 |
celeron55 |
the security issues pointed out by Wuzzy are accurate, personally those have been my main concern ever since i decided client-side mods downloaded from the server could be interesting; and given the lack of trust to the programming skills of anyone... ehm |
| 07:15 |
sofar |
but it shouldn't be "remove csm" |
| 07:16 |
sofar |
VanessaE: just say "warm", "colder", "freezing" |
| 07:16 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 07:16 |
celeron55 |
for one, i think leaving csm in without code downloaded from the server is stupid |
| 07:16 |
sofar |
agreed |
| 07:16 |
celeron55 |
either that or nothing is the future |
| 07:17 |
sofar |
I've said something similar a few times |
| 07:17 |
celeron55 |
i'm fine with either |
| 07:17 |
VanessaE |
my opinion is that we should have never had client-provided csm. it should have been server-provided from the start |
| 07:17 |
sofar |
I will start making CSM mods when servers can send code |
| 07:17 |
sofar |
not before |
| 07:17 |
sofar |
well it's a good lesson |
| 07:17 |
sofar |
I don't think nerzhul and red thought it through either |
| 07:18 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: that was my plan, but things tend to go the way the actual implementer does it |
| 07:19 |
VanessaE |
I know. just saying. |
| 07:19 |
celeron55 |
it's very much a "the kettle fell on the floor and now your feet are in boiling porridge" situation |
| 07:19 |
celeron55 |
it doesn't help telling yourself you shouldn't have done it |
| 07:20 |
celeron55 |
oops, as the linux kernel likes to say |
| 07:21 |
celeron55 |
but, like |
| 07:21 |
celeron55 |
the complete lack of actual lists of problems is amazing |
| 07:22 |
celeron55 |
i can see two: scanning for ores and taking items from chests without collision detection |
| 07:22 |
VanessaE |
shouldn't the latter be entirely the server's job? |
| 07:23 |
celeron55 |
in the design MT happens to be using both of those could be made impossible by the server; the first one takes more effort and server resources to implement though |
| 07:23 |
celeron55 |
the second one was probably assumed to be already checked but apparently isn't |
| 07:24 |
celeron55 |
the first one could be made impossible by not sending ores that aren't close to the player and next to an open space |
| 07:25 |
celeron55 |
needs constant updates when moving though; it's not elegant, fast or cheap at all, i did that in a 2d tile-based game |
| 07:26 |
celeron55 |
as all CSM hacks are doable in C++, even if CSM was completely removed we still have to fix all of these |
| 07:26 |
celeron55 |
ALL of them |
| 07:27 |
celeron55 |
there's no way around it and doing anything to CSM doesn't help |
| 07:29 |
celeron55 |
that's the logic due to which CSM was deemed fine to begin with |
| 07:29 |
celeron55 |
it's an open source client, how much more open can you make the source? In theory, not at all; in practice, apparently somewhat |
| 07:29 |
sofar |
one of the biggest problems is insecure server mods with gaping holes |
| 07:30 |
sofar |
minehacker caused us to fix the most egregorious core holes already |
| 07:30 |
sofar |
csm SHOULD cause us to hunt down bad server mods |
| 07:30 |
sofar |
but it isn't |
| 07:30 |
celeron55 |
again not in theory related to CSM, in practice CSM makes everyone a greyhat hacker |
| 07:31 |
celeron55 |
+but |
| 07:31 |
sofar |
sure |
| 07:33 |
celeron55 |
it's kind of cool from every perspective other than running a non-whitelisted public server |
| 07:33 |
celeron55 |
...which MT historically has been able to do, against all odds |
| 07:34 |
celeron55 |
literally i don't even understand how that has been possible in practice, but that might be history no matter what is done |
| 07:36 |
sofar |
what is this server whitelisting? |
| 07:37 |
celeron55 |
i mean, whitelisting players by servers |
| 07:40 |
celeron55 |
the thing that every online game does at least in the form of having to register and activate an email for the player account but usually by paying the game company or by being friends by the server host |
| 07:40 |
celeron55 |
friends with* |
| 07:40 |
sofar |
IC |
| 07:43 |
celeron55 |
some people seem to come from the perspective of never having done any of that, but it is a widely known and widely used solution to the universal problem of cheating |
| 07:46 |
celeron55 |
the more tedious, expensive or friend-based you make it to get to a server, the smaller ratio of cheaters there will be |
| 07:46 |
sofar |
which is why I'm writing a 2fa system for minetest servers atm |
| 07:48 |
sofar |
not that I would deploy on my own server, actually |
| 07:48 |
sofar |
but I almost want to demonstrate that most server owners have a huge technical debt |
| 07:48 |
sofar |
(there's a few good ones out there, though) |
| 07:49 |
sofar |
but if you look how derailed my oredetect thread went, it's clear nobody can think ... outside the box |
| 07:49 |
sofar |
I haven't seen a single antispam mod on the forum yet |
| 07:49 |
* sofar |
relinquishes soapbox |
| 07:50 |
lhofhansl |
Unrelated... I could still use a review of #6723, #6721, and #6667 :) |
| 07:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6723 -- Allow Irrlicht caching of animated meshes by lhofhansl |
| 07:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6721 -- Limit active object step time budget by lhofhansl |
| 07:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6667 -- Improve active object behavior - extend active object in view direction. by lhofhansl |
| 07:53 |
sofar |
6721 looks nice |
| 07:54 |
lhofhansl |
Everything had a time limit, except for active objects. Basically just fixing that, and make the timelimit generally a bit more smooth. |
| 07:54 |
sofar |
yup |
| 07:54 |
sofar |
can't test on my server, it basically has no objects of significance :) |
| 07:55 |
lhofhansl |
at least nothing should break :) |
| 07:57 |
lhofhansl |
6723 gets us away from coloring all vertexes of a mesh, which is bad in any case; and that allows us use Irrlicht's mesh cache, which in turns stop quite terrible jitter when many, complex animated meshes are loaded. |
| 08:03 |
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| 08:26 |
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| 08:37 |
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| 08:48 |
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| 08:57 |
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| 09:10 |
Krock |
merging #6689 in 15 mins |
| 09:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6689 -- Shut down mapgen threads after kicking players and before other shutdown tasks by raymoo |
| 09:23 |
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| 09:44 |
nerzhul |
nice Krock |
| 10:24 |
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| 11:04 |
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| 11:08 |
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| 11:16 |
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| 11:49 |
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| 13:25 |
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| 13:51 |
Megaf |
Krock: thanks |
| 14:11 |
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| 14:11 |
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| 14:16 |
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| 16:07 |
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| 16:56 |
MaybeDragon |
Is this the right place to ask questions about mod development? |
| 16:57 |
Krock |
not directly. #minetest and #minetest-hub are better choices |
| 17:35 |
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| 17:51 |
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| 18:18 |
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| 20:50 |
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| 21:20 |
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| 21:21 |
paramat |
lhofhansl has some nice PRs for review #6723 #6721 #6667 |
| 21:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6723 -- Allow Irrlicht caching of animated meshes by lhofhansl |
| 21:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6721 -- Limit active object step time budget by lhofhansl |
| 21:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6667 -- Improve active object behavior - extend active object in view direction. by lhofhansl |
| 21:45 |
paramat |
red-001 please could you work on adding server-provided CSM? |
| 22:05 |
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| 22:25 |
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| 22:48 |
paramat |
+1 for #6667 will merge later with #6650 |
| 22:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6667 -- Improve active object behavior - extend active object in view direction. by lhofhansl |
| 22:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6650 -- Zoom: Set zoom FOV per-player using a player object property by paramat |
| 23:13 |
paramat |
looks like #6628 can be merged? has 2 approvals |
| 23:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6628 -- Android: Update build system for ndk-r16 by stujones11 |
| 23:15 |
paramat |
yes seems so, will merge later |
| 23:41 |
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