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| 12:32 |
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| 12:33 |
paramat |
#6125 and related #6126 |
| 12:33 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6125 -- F5 debug display: Reformat and remove some information by paramat |
| 12:33 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6126 -- Default window size: Increase to 16:9 1024x576 by paramat |
| 12:35 |
VanessaE |
whoa wait |
| 12:35 |
VanessaE |
don't remove the filename |
| 12:35 |
VanessaE |
(of the top solid) |
| 12:35 |
VanessaE |
that's occasionally useful |
| 12:35 |
VanessaE |
s/solid/tile/ |
| 12:36 |
VanessaE |
one thing that DOES need done however is to make the text wrap properly if the window is too narrow |
| 12:38 |
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| 12:38 |
paramat |
wrapping will less readable if it wraps mid-parameter, and it's simpler to not do so, anyway no need to with this |
| 12:38 |
VanessaE |
so split it between fields? |
| 12:39 |
VanessaE |
if it doesn't wrap, it gets cut off entirely |
| 12:39 |
VanessaE |
stats that are hidden are kinda useless :) |
| 12:39 |
paramat |
that would be complex, and it's unnecessary |
| 12:39 |
VanessaE |
hm. |
| 12:39 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 12:40 |
paramat |
well, maybe |
| 12:40 |
VanessaE |
you could just re-arrange the line wrapping manually |
| 12:40 |
paramat |
it would conform to screen width |
| 12:40 |
VanessaE |
like just make the lines always a little shorter |
| 12:40 |
paramat |
.. and therefore reduce lines |
| 12:41 |
paramat |
manual re-arranging is what my PR does? maybe i misunderstood? |
| 12:52 |
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| 12:56 |
paramat |
well maybe we can make it adjust to screen width in future, but i don't know how to do that so this for now |
| 12:58 |
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| 13:34 |
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| 13:42 |
Fixer |
get biome info |
| 13:48 |
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| 13:52 |
paramat |
VanessaE while i consider keeping node top tile, how is it useful? seems not very essential, and it is not the pointed tile |
| 13:54 |
paramat |
any more comments on #6091 ? it has approval so i might merge it much later today |
| 13:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6091 -- Revert "[CSM] Add send_chat_message and run_server_chatcommand" by rubenwardy |
| 14:02 |
paramat |
anyway, i'll check the PR that added top tile info to see the uses |
| 14:02 |
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| 14:06 |
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| 14:06 |
DS-minetest |
6091 has only one approval but 8 yellow disapprovals including nerzhul |
| 14:09 |
nerzhul |
in fact to make sending messages more efficient we should: 1. have the new chat protocol merged 2. develop the mod communication channels |
| 14:09 |
nerzhul |
i just work on other projects these days |
| 14:25 |
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| 14:29 |
paramat |
emoticon disapprovals are different from official approvals so cannot be compared, and some are hacker types, the server owners all approve |
| 14:31 |
DS-minetest |
no, there are many server owners that didn't approve |
| 14:34 |
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| 14:35 |
VanessaE |
paramat: maybe it (texture filename) doesn't have much use, but it just seems like it belongs is all. besides, is it *really* all that heavy to display it? and why do we care? :) |
| 14:35 |
VanessaE |
I've used it once or twice to check what texture a node ended up with. like a sanity check. |
| 14:36 |
VanessaE |
imho it's okay to lose a few percent performance for the sake of debug info as long as that loss happens only when the debug info is displayed. |
| 14:36 |
VanessaE |
(assuming we're talking a few percent, you did say the performance difference was small) |
| 14:37 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 14:40 |
paramat |
sorry i mean, of the server owners who added an emoticon |
| 14:40 |
VanessaE |
as for CSM it's simple: if it's something that can allow a client to spam the server in any way, shape, or form, it needs to be removed entirely, or disabled from the server by default. |
| 14:40 |
paramat |
nah it's not heavy to display, as i wrote, but if it's not much use .. |
| 14:41 |
paramat |
few percent would be a huge performance loss, i mean much much smaller :] |
| 14:41 |
VanessaE |
hehe ok |
| 14:41 |
VanessaE |
well think of it this way: |
| 14:41 |
VanessaE |
what's the point in *removing* it now that it's there? |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
it's a debug display, it should have as much useful info as possible. |
| 14:42 |
DS-minetest |
+ |
| 14:42 |
paramat |
less screen clutter, a 3rd line is more intrusive |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
param1 on the other hand is questionable |
| 14:42 |
DS-minetest |
the players won't update if they know that the feature is removed |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
bleh, it's debug |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
you can turn it off anyway |
| 14:42 |
paramat |
DS wut |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
besides, the graphs at the bottom are far more intrusive |
| 14:42 |
DS-minetest |
oh |
| 14:43 |
VanessaE |
DS-minetest: CSM updates will come with a protocol bump == server owners can disallow old clients that lack the updates. |
| 14:43 |
paramat |
sorry DS maybe you meant chat |
| 14:43 |
DS-minetest |
yes |
| 14:43 |
DS-minetest |
VanessaE: but the server would loose many stable version players |
| 14:43 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE, you cannot really spam as there are spam limits server side |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
DS-minetest: tough. |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
they can upgrade. |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: can the server protect against rapid node actions? |
| 14:44 |
DS-minetest |
the spam limits have to bee stricter |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
and no, the server does NOT protect well against spamming the chat |
| 14:44 |
paramat |
*some* may not update, but only hacker types |
| 14:45 |
VanessaE |
besides, there's just no use-case for a mod "talking" to the server's other players like that. |
| 14:45 |
DS-minetest |
paramat: and the ones who use table |
| 14:45 |
DS-minetest |
stable* |
| 14:45 |
VanessaE |
it will be in stable. |
| 14:46 |
DS-minetest |
also moderators and admins can easily kick or ban or revoke shout of spamming players |
| 14:46 |
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| 14:46 |
paramat |
the 'spam limits' are just message rate, there are other ways to annoy with chat messages, like the hi mod |
| 14:46 |
VanessaE |
that doesn't work in practice, DS-minetest . |
| 14:46 |
VanessaE |
paramat: exactly. |
| 14:47 |
VanessaE |
DS-minetest: server admins can't police servers 24/7. |
| 14:47 |
DS-minetest |
then we need a limited amount of messages that can be sent |
| 14:48 |
paramat |
mods and admin would rather not have the annoyance in the first place, try talking to them |
| 14:48 |
VanessaE |
that's the domain of a server mod perhaps, but you still have to make sure the client can't automate it. |
| 14:48 |
VanessaE |
paramat: ^ exactly. |
| 14:48 |
paramat |
no, message limit is no solution |
| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
there are anti-spam and anti-flood mods for IRC clients and IRC bots that are usually fairly effective, but if the opportunity exists to nip that in the bud now, then it should be so. |
| 14:49 |
paramat |
chat can annoy within rate or total limits |
| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 14:50 |
DS-minetest |
well, actually i only know one good usecase of sending chat messages: the one which uses oredetect now |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
why would that send chat messages to the server? |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
"that's just plain dumb and stupid!" |
| 14:50 |
DS-minetest |
so, telling the server that the player has oredetect but not showing it to the player |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
THAT is the domain of the layer below Lua |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
i.e. the client can inform the server via a normal side channel rather than in chat. |
| 14:51 |
DS-minetest |
but using chat commands is very useful |
| 14:52 |
DS-minetest |
VanessaE: yeah, but it tells it to all players that the player has oredetect |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
yeah and that's a waste of bandwidth |
| 14:53 |
VanessaE |
that's the sort of thing that should be handled at a much lower level (at which point the client should tell the server ALL of the client-side mods it has, if that isn't already the case) |
| 14:53 |
DS-minetest |
it isn't but also it wouldn't help anything since the name isn't useful to know |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
exactrly |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
exactly* |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
that's what makes it a waste of bandwidth |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
it's useless information (and it's not expected to drive one's imagination either) |
| 14:54 |
DS-minetest |
actually the new oredetect version is just an experiment |
| 14:57 |
DS-minetest |
the only possibility to spam with chatcommands is normally with the me command (maybe also with msg) |
| 14:58 |
VanessaE |
exactly. |
| 14:58 |
DS-minetest |
what if there was a field in chatcommand definition if it can be used with csm? |
| 14:59 |
paramat |
can you not cheat with that mod now? |
| 14:59 |
DS-minetest |
oredetect is disabled |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
hacker types will just work around it |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
Lua's a lot easier to hack than C++ |
| 15:00 |
paramat |
VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17692 i think this should be removed from the forum until we have restrictions |
| 15:00 |
DS-minetest |
and a player who uses it writes on join detecting ores is like eating yellow snow |
| 15:01 |
DS-minetest |
VanessaE: but as long as a C++ change is needed, it's ok |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
moved to "moderator talk" |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
paramat: ^ |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
(best place I could think of that'll keep it out of normal users' view) |
| 15:01 |
paramat |
ok thanks |
| 15:01 |
paramat |
is there any reason why oredetect should not be removed? |
| 15:02 |
VanessaE |
got a link to it? |
| 15:02 |
DS-minetest |
paramat: getting the players who are evil and want to use it |
| 15:03 |
paramat |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17046 |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
paramat: moved. sorry, DS-minetest. |
| 15:04 |
DS-minetest |
ok |
| 15:04 |
paramat |
those are the only 2 that are harmful |
| 15:05 |
paramat |
thanks, and yes we're sorry, it's only for a few months |
| 15:06 |
* DS-minetest |
added the evil label to github oredetect repository |
| 15:07 |
paramat |
i think 0.5 is the point where there are enough protections to allow any CSM mod to be posted, so 6 months |
| 15:09 |
DS-minetest |
game#1827 needs a better name :P |
| 15:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1827 -- ! |
| 15:09 |
VanessaE |
wat |
| 15:11 |
paramat |
zaoqi is chinese and has bad english |
| 15:12 |
paramat |
but it could be better |
| 15:13 |
paramat |
i'll add a title if one doesn't appear |
| 15:14 |
DS-minetest |
could we please keep csm chatcommand execution and add a field in chatcommand definition if it can be used with csm |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:54 |
glut32 |
I have a mouse bug only on MacOSX : You cannot move the camera with the mouse |
| 15:58 |
glut32 |
(on minetest) |
| 16:00 |
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