| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:31 |
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| 01:26 |
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| 02:10 |
lhofhansl |
#4998 is ready for merging |
| 02:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4998 -- Get neighbor from same map block if possible in ABMHandler by lhofhansl |
| 02:42 |
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| 02:48 |
paramat |
ok. i had a quick look, will look again |
| 02:56 |
paramat |
aha it's approved |
| 02:58 |
paramat |
i think nrzkt would be happy with #4965 but can anyone else review? |
| 02:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4965 -- Map generation limit: Fix checks for block/sector over-limit by paramat |
| 02:59 |
paramat |
hmmmm in case you are interested to look, the recursive mapgen prototype is here #5005 |
| 02:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5005 -- Recursive refining mapgen API prototype by MillersMan |
| 03:19 |
hmmmm |
hey guys |
| 03:19 |
hmmmm |
i appreciate all the stuff you're giving me to review |
| 03:19 |
hmmmm |
but i don't know if i'm going to do it all |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
i've been thinking a lot about it lately, and I think I'm pretty much done with minetest |
| 03:21 |
paramat |
no problem if you don't feel like reviewing |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
there's just nothing here for me |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
i don't play minetest, i don't enjoy developing it, i don't enjoy the struggles of having to keep up with a landscape that's constantly changing |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
really a lot of people making a lot of changes all at the same time and nothing is coordinated, but that's the nature of an open source project that accepts outside contributions |
| 03:22 |
KaadmY |
my feeling exactly |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
i can completely understand why celeron did buildat and understand why it's a private thing |
| 03:23 |
hmmmm |
i feel the exact same way except i don't have the energy required to start my own all of a sudden and it certainly doesn't make sense to create yet another block game |
| 03:23 |
KaadmY |
unrelated, does anybody know of any FLOSS C/C++ physics engines? |
| 03:23 |
est31 |
buildat uses bullet, i think |
| 03:23 |
KaadmY |
bullet and ode are basically the only ones |
| 03:24 |
KaadmY |
buildat is irrlight+bullet iirc |
| 03:24 |
KaadmY |
urho3d* |
| 03:24 |
est31 |
yes |
| 03:24 |
KaadmY |
urho3d has ode |
| 03:24 |
KaadmY |
i think |
| 03:24 |
hmmmm |
what's ode? |
| 03:24 |
KaadmY |
Open Dynamics Engine |
| 03:24 |
KaadmY |
another physics engine |
| 03:25 |
hmmmm |
if the 3d engine already has a physics engine included, why would buildat use a different one? |
| 03:25 |
KaadmY |
i'm looking at qu3e, seems to have some errors working on linux though due to compilation errors.. |
| 03:31 |
paramat |
hmmmmm enjoy your break, but no need to burn bridges, you can always return if you feel like it. when you're away you are very much missed |
| 03:33 |
hmmmm |
yea, it's just that right now my role along with many others' with MT is that they're another cog in the machine |
| 03:33 |
paramat |
i have a request, please could you finish up a loose-end sometime (no rush)? settable dungeon parameters, i'm not sure anyone else knows how to implement that, i don't |
| 03:33 |
hmmmm |
as an outside contributor you initially get the satisfaction that you added what you wanted to add |
| 03:33 |
hmmmm |
but then you get to become a "core developer" which means you start having to worry about other things that you aren't focused on |
| 03:34 |
hmmmm |
you don't have time/energy to focus on the things you want to |
| 03:34 |
hmmmm |
and then when you do, you realize you really don't even care about them anymore because you don't even personally use it |
| 03:34 |
hmmmm |
it's much closer to a programming *job* than a hobby |
| 03:35 |
hmmmm |
you're lucky if you get a chance to create something and have it stay there for a few months before somebody else comes along and changes it all underneath your feet |
| 03:36 |
hmmmm |
so really come to think of it these are two distinct complaints |
| 03:40 |
paramat |
open source dev is tough going |
| 03:41 |
paramat |
since you have some holiday coming, is it possible you could finish any small loose-ends before having a long break? |
| 03:41 |
hmmmm |
really i could've done it last week |
| 03:41 |
hmmmm |
but i just open my IDE, stare at it, and wonder how to even start |
| 03:41 |
hmmmm |
and then go do something different |
| 03:47 |
paramat |
i mean small and easy, sorry, i really don't want to ask for anything that takes an effort. i got the impression dungeon params was very easy to make settable |
| 03:48 |
hmmmm |
it is |
| 03:48 |
hmmmm |
i don't even remember how i did this |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
mapgens take their MapgenFoobarParams, i could've sworn while i was doing this i changed it to take a Settings * |
| 03:49 |
paramat |
i try to avoid rationalising my dev involvement, it's weird because i'm actually someone who prefers to work alone :] |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
ahh there was a problem |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
paramat, trust your gut |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
i think i prefer to work alone too |
| 03:50 |
paramat |
gut development |
| 03:51 |
paramat |
actually i get the feeling you have tied up almost all your loose-ends already |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
no there are lots of loose ends |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
you're right, the dungeon parameters are one |
| 03:51 |
KaadmY |
i like developing guts |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
hell i didn't even fix that unit test that you were having trouble witrh |
| 03:51 |
KaadmY |
class Gut {} |
| 04:10 |
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| 04:29 |
paramat |
good grief :] |
| 04:44 |
* paramat |
creates a catacomb realm deep underground by setting 27 dungeons per chunk |
| 04:54 |
paramat |
take that MC fortress |
| 05:14 |
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| 05:29 |
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| 05:53 |
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| 06:04 |
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| 06:07 |
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| 06:10 |
Zeno` |
paramat, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10376 |
| 06:10 |
Zeno` |
it took a lot of hard work, planning and underground sources of wood ;) |
| 06:11 |
Zeno` |
Macros is me (aka oneZ). I had to change my nick to hide from my players lol |
| 06:11 |
Zeno` |
0, -30912.5, 0 |
| 06:11 |
Zeno` |
I don't think I'll ever do it again |
| 06:17 |
paramat |
looking |
| 06:18 |
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| 06:19 |
Zeno` |
which is why I was/am so passionate about underground torches. We built lots of forests. None of us knew that we could grow saplings without torches so we used torches for all saplings on the way down |
| 06:19 |
paramat |
nice skin |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
haha thanks |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
I made it myself |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
I tried to get the beard looking ok but it was hard so in the end I just said "meh" |
| 06:22 |
paramat |
i'm hoping there will be, and will try to get, an option for 'grow with torches at normal speed' |
| 06:22 |
Zeno` |
we had heaps of fun |
| 06:23 |
Zeno` |
there was no point in it of course... we just made a goal and went for it |
| 06:24 |
paramat |
lucky MT world isn't as big as some want it |
| 06:25 |
Zeno` |
well yeah lol |
| 06:26 |
paramat |
that's what i like about 31000, it's a reasonable distance |
| 06:26 |
Zeno` |
yeah |
| 06:26 |
Zeno` |
and it takes a LONG time to make a proper mine to that depth |
| 06:27 |
Zeno` |
i.e. one without vertical shafts (but they were allowed with ladders) |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
there are not a lot of vertical shafts though |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
one day I might walk down again |
| 06:28 |
paramat |
yes it's reasonable vertically, and not too close horizontally, just right |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
when I have a month or so spare |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
we mainly discouraged them because we felt it was cheating in some way |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
so mostly there are stairs |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
but sometimes we did use them hehe |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
below -15000 I had caverealms active |
| 06:33 |
Zeno` |
which made it easier in some ways and harder in other ways |
| 06:34 |
Zeno` |
i.e. even though the caverns are huge we still had to make a safe way down and a way to walk back up |
| 06:34 |
paramat |
nice |
| 06:34 |
Zeno` |
gave us something to look at that was different as well |
| 06:35 |
Zeno` |
I guess that was the main thing haha |
| 06:35 |
Zeno` |
3 months digging and everything looking the same... it gets tedious |
| 06:36 |
Zeno` |
I'd like to see some kind of caverealms in the official game actually |
| 06:36 |
Zeno` |
to add interest deep down |
| 06:36 |
Zeno` |
I modified caverealms so they were different every -5000 or so |
| 06:37 |
Zeno` |
crystal lined caves, different "biomes" etc |
| 06:37 |
Zeno` |
it might be out of scope to MTG I dunno |
| 06:38 |
Zeno` |
but keeping interest is cool |
| 06:39 |
paramat |
well i intend to make decoration code work in caves |
| 06:40 |
paramat |
then we can add some decoratins |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
that's a start :) |
| 06:40 |
paramat |
(decorations) |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
biomes for different depths might be cool as well |
| 06:40 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
maybe based on noise as well as depth |
| 06:42 |
paramat |
i'm thinking decorations will be placable on ceilings or floors, for stalactites etc |
| 06:42 |
Zeno` |
yup |
| 06:44 |
Zeno` |
caverealms has those and I also modded it so that the inside of the caverns could form a "shell" |
| 06:44 |
Zeno` |
e.g. a shell of coal blocks or crystal or whatever |
| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
down deep there were obsidian lined caves (slowed you down getting into them heheh) |
| 06:45 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm is kinda wrong frankly; nothing prevents anyone from just doing their own thing as a core developer and also i didn't attempt buildat because of non-coordination in minetest |
| 06:46 |
celeron55 |
that's just blaming other things for one's own lazyness |
| 06:46 |
* Zeno` |
looks at logs to see what c55 is referring to |
| 06:47 |
celeron55 |
and lack of imagination |
| 06:51 |
celeron55 |
also probably a matter of not having energy for programming after a day job of programming; it's hard to accept that a human isn't really capable of more than that but the matter of the fact is that many of the "minetest developer heroes" are students or unemployed 8) |
| 06:51 |
thePalindrome |
Aye |
| 06:52 |
celeron55 |
including me |
| 06:59 |
Zeno` |
I dunno how far we'd get without outside contributions |
| 06:59 |
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| 06:59 |
Zeno` |
seems to me like they're needed |
| 07:01 |
Zeno` |
any objections to merging #4998? |
| 07:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4998 -- Get neighbor from same map block if possible in ABMHandler by lhofhansl |
| 07:22 |
hmmmm |
i'm not saying that we go without outside contributions |
| 07:23 |
hmmmm |
i'm just saying that, at a personal level, it's like a firehose |
| 07:23 |
hmmmm |
so many pending changes and so many different people changing the carpets in this same house |
| 07:23 |
hmmmm |
i'm on a ladder trying to change a lightbulb :p |
| 07:24 |
hmmmm |
i can't actually pin this on any one single contributor, it's just that as a whole, it feels like the whole rug is being pulled out from underneath me |
| 07:24 |
hmmmm |
too many changes, too many things going on, too much for me to keep track of |
| 07:26 |
hmmmm |
i never said buildat is because of non-coordination, but it's like your own space to do completely your own thing isolated from anybody wanting to do something a different way or whatever, and you can focus 100% of attention on what you want to |
| 07:35 |
Zeno` |
it was like that when you were hyperactive as well, hmmmm |
| 07:36 |
Zeno` |
we'd go to sleep and wake up to a different landscape :P |
| 07:36 |
Zeno` |
(not saying you did anything wrong) |
| 07:37 |
Zeno` |
will merge #4998 |
| 07:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4998 -- Get neighbor from same map block if possible in ABMHandler by lhofhansl |
| 07:42 |
Zeno` |
anyway, since 3/4 of us seem to be burnt out the project needs the outside contribs |
| 07:46 |
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| 08:33 |
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| 09:11 |
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| 09:22 |
Zeno` |
nrzkt, is #4985 finished |
| 09:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4985 -- Environment & IGameDef code refactoring by nerzhul |
| 09:22 |
Zeno` |
if it is I'd like to merge it before I go to sleep |
| 09:22 |
Zeno` |
assuming that nobody objects in the meantime |
| 09:23 |
Zeno` |
I see that hmmmm asked a question which you replied to and he didn't reply to your reply so I can only assume that your answer satisfied him |
| 09:24 |
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| 09:24 |
* Zeno` |
will merger #4985 before he goes to sleep (maybe 3 or so hours) if there are no objections |
| 09:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4985 -- Environment & IGameDef code refactoring by nerzhul |
| 09:25 |
Zeno` |
assuming nrzkt confirms that it's finished :P |
| 09:26 |
An0n3m0us |
heh |
| 09:27 |
hmmmm |
Zeno`, I didn't really get the response |
| 09:28 |
An0n3m0us |
yeah, hmmmmm |
| 09:28 |
hmmmm |
widening the scope of an object just to satisfy one cast to server or whatever is not... a very good way to clean up code |
| 09:28 |
hmmmm |
is this supposed to be a cleanup or a messup |
| 09:28 |
An0n3m0us |
heh |
| 09:28 |
Zeno` |
I don't know |
| 09:29 |
An0n3m0us |
since its your code |
| 09:29 |
hmmmm |
refactoring requires brainpower |
| 09:29 |
Zeno` |
didn't it irritate you that IGameDef* were cast in every function they were used before? |
| 09:29 |
Zeno` |
personally I found it confusing |
| 09:29 |
hmmmm |
this genuinely requires mental effort to make a better interface |
| 09:29 |
hmmmm |
alright so, switching over to files changed tab |
| 09:29 |
Zeno` |
this is changing the explicit cast to an implicit one (by the function call itself) |
| 09:29 |
hmmmm |
ctrl+f for (Server *) |
| 09:30 |
hmmmm |
exactly two places |
| 09:30 |
Zeno` |
and (Client *) ? |
| 09:30 |
hmmmm |
one is in nerzuhl's recent change |
| 09:30 |
hmmmm |
where he casts an igamedef to send a packet from inside the wrong object |
| 09:30 |
hmmmm |
PlayerSAOs should not be sending packets. i'm sorry |
| 09:31 |
hmmmm |
and another one (i'll admit this is my fault) in EmergeThread |
| 09:31 |
Zeno` |
I guess I just don't think it makes sense that IGameDef* objects can be cast willy nilly |
| 09:31 |
hmmmm |
does it ever make sense to have an EmergeThread without a Server gamedef? |
| 09:31 |
hmmmm |
me neither |
| 09:31 |
hmmmm |
and oh trust me |
| 09:31 |
hmmmm |
i'd like to clean up the casts |
| 09:32 |
hmmmm |
but that doesn't involve changing every instance of IGameDef to Server or Client |
| 09:32 |
hmmmm |
it involves changing the interface so it perhaps doesn't need a certain kind of gamedef |
| 09:32 |
nrzkt |
in fact, not every instance was changed, just required instances |
| 09:32 |
hmmmm |
so for example let's look at what could genuinely be done with the EmergeThread |
| 09:33 |
hmmmm |
what does it use a Server for? |
| 09:33 |
hmmmm |
to get a ServerMap |
| 09:33 |
nrzkt |
grep -R "IGameDef \*" ../src | wc -l Â î‚²Â î‚ Â clientenv_split |
| 09:33 |
nrzkt |
200 |
| 09:33 |
hmmmm |
why does it need a *server* map? |
| 09:33 |
hmmmm |
because an EmergeThread can generate or load map |
| 09:33 |
hmmmm |
a ClientMap can only store map in memory |
| 09:33 |
hmmmm |
well i mean get map from memory |
| 09:34 |
nrzkt |
and why ClientEnvironment needs a Client ? Because he shuld have access to functions client side only, and why ServerEnv require server ? To access to server functions. |
| 09:34 |
hmmmm |
so does it make sense to change EmergeThread to optionally allow a non-saveable GameDef? |
| 09:34 |
hmmmm |
but do either of those need a Client? |
| 09:35 |
Zeno` |
well I don't know offhand, but IGameDef is, imo, already a mess |
| 09:35 |
hmmmm |
see I can't even figure out what the change was there because you did both a split of Environment and the IGameDef change in the same commit |
| 09:35 |
Zeno` |
so splitting things up makes sense doesn't it? |
| 09:35 |
hmmmm |
sure, i suppose splitting the two environments makes sense, on the face of it |
| 09:35 |
hmmmm |
but i'm not sure what the advantage of it is that we need to break all other 165 pull requests |
| 09:36 |
hmmmm |
trust me |
| 09:36 |
hmmmm |
i would have done stupidly simple obvious refactoring crap such as this a loooooooooong time ago if the cost was low enough for it to make sense |
| 09:36 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm, in fact i can do a simple PR to split, rebase this PR with it after merge. In fact many PR always require a rebase, and there is very very little number of them changing environment and many of these where merged recently |
| 09:37 |
Zeno` |
i need to eat. I'll scroll up when I get back |
| 09:37 |
An0n3m0us |
bye |
| 09:37 |
nrzkt |
but if you want 2 PR, one to split and 1 to do the GameDef changes, i can, if that make things cleaner |
| 09:37 |
hmmmm |
that would be a huge improvement |
| 09:38 |
nrzkt |
okay let me 5 mins to do the split PR |
| 09:38 |
hmmmm |
i dunno about everybody else |
| 09:38 |
hmmmm |
when I make a PR, my goal is to make the commits as atomic as possible |
| 09:38 |
hmmmm |
maybe the same PR, but the commits inside the PR each do one very specific change |
| 09:38 |
nrzkt |
hmmmm, i wanted it too at first but because nobody want to review i added more little commits... and then 6 commits :( |
| 09:39 |
hmmmm |
git add -p |
| 09:39 |
hmmmm |
not only are separate commits better organized, it helps the reviewer |
| 09:39 |
hmmmm |
they only have to look out for one thing |
| 09:39 |
hmmmm |
that's less context needed |
| 09:40 |
hmmmm |
right, the main struggle of a reviewer is that they need to build up a mental context on what the code does right now, envision what the changes in the code made will do, and whether that's desireable and logically correct |
| 09:40 |
hmmmm |
having 2 or 3 or 4 different things happening all at the same time increases mental load |
| 09:40 |
hmmmm |
that's a great way to make reviewers not able to effectively review |
| 09:41 |
hmmmm |
i guess this is a positive, if your end goal is to obsfucate changes for the purpose of stealthily pushing in an exploit or something |
| 09:44 |
hmmmm |
this is highly unlikely, but sometimes i do get the feeling nerzhul is trying to boost his lines-of-code-changed commit stats to look good to other non-contributors who dunno what's going on |
| 09:44 |
nrzkt |
euh lol |
| 09:45 |
nrzkt |
absolutely not, i just want to make things cleaner |
| 09:56 |
An0n3m0us |
lol |
| 09:57 |
Zeno` |
? |
| 09:57 |
An0n3m0us |
sory |
| 09:57 |
An0n3m0us |
Meant for #minetest |
| 09:58 |
Zeno` |
ok |
| 10:07 |
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| 11:03 |
nrzkt |
merging #5007 in ~10 min |
| 11:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5007 -- Move Server/ClientEnvironment to dedicated cpp/header files by nerzhul |
| 11:07 |
juhdanad |
And when will #4985 be merged? |
| 11:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4985 -- Environment & IGameDef code refactoring by nerzhul |
| 11:15 |
nrzkt |
juhdanad, i need to rebase it after this merge |
| 11:16 |
nrzkt |
5007 merged |
| 11:16 |
nrzkt |
thanks Zeno` for you time and review |
| 11:17 |
nrzkt |
juhdanad, i need to fix the huge conflict due to pr split :) |
| 11:28 |
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rdococ |
holleh |
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| 17:06 |
redblade |
!seen tenplus1 |
| 17:06 |
ShadowBot |
redblade: I saw tenplus1 in #minetest-dev 2 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 41 minutes, and 27 seconds ago saying "pull #4955" |
| 17:13 |
red-001 |
could someone review #5000 ? |
| 17:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5000 -- Simpler serverlist search by red-001 |
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| 18:22 |
nrzkt |
merging #5010 |
| 18:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5010 -- Minor: Fix annoying indentation in new serverenvironment.cpp by lhofhansl |
| 18:23 |
nrzkt |
seems #5007 change did remove indent fix on this code part |
| 18:23 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5007 -- Move Server/ClientEnvironment to dedicated cpp/header files by nerzhul |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:46 |
Megaf |
hm, KDE 5 on Debian Strech is looking very good |
| 18:48 |
Megaf |
and memory leaks on Minetest Server seem to have been partially fixed. My server have been running for 43.6 days and it's using 228 MB of RAM |
| 18:48 |
Megaf |
minetest mt:~$ free -m total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 512 338 173 0 0 110 |
| 18:48 |
Megaf |
-/+ buffers/cache: 228 283 Swap: 256 8 247 |
| 18:49 |
est31 |
nice |
| 18:49 |
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| 18:49 |
Megaf |
minetestmt:~$ uptime 16:54:43 up 47 days, 20:00, 3 users, load average: 1.22, 0.93, 0.94 |
| 18:49 |
Megaf |
Quite good |
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| 19:14 |
Fixer |
Megaf|Away: there were some players on it during this time? |
| 19:21 |
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| 19:23 |
est31 |
sfan5: thanks for reverting commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c435eabf3ffb77eab955d5faeb5450da1befc149 |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
it makes no sense |
| 19:24 |
sfan5 |
i reverted it since it was not merged in accordance with the rules, no matter the content of the commit |
| 19:24 |
est31 |
good |
| 19:24 |
est31 |
yeah, looks like it only had one approval |
| 19:24 |
est31 |
still a stupid change... |
| 19:38 |
red-001 |
I really don't see why it's a bad change |
| 19:41 |
nrzkt |
i don't see too, est31 can you add some argumetns why you are against ? |
| 19:43 |
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| 19:43 |
est31 |
dunno, I just think there is little benefit in the change |
| 19:44 |
est31 |
but idk, I'm not really -1'ing |
| 19:44 |
paramat |
nrzkt #4965 is updated, please can you or anyone review/approve? |
| 19:44 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4965 -- Map generation limit: Fix checks for block/sector over-limit by paramat |
| 20:02 |
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| 20:03 |
* rdococ |
gtg to bed |
| 20:09 |
nrzkt |
paramat, seems okay to me, est31 can you review too as you worked on limits too ? |
| 20:11 |
est31 |
nrzkt: paramat LGTM |
| 20:11 |
nrzkt |
ty est31 |
| 20:12 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 20:15 |
KaadmY |
gtg to bed is very redundant |
| 20:16 |
nrzkt |
KaadmY, inception |
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| 21:16 |
paramat |
will merge #4965 in a moment |
| 21:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4965 -- Map generation limit: Fix checks for block/sector over-limit by paramat |
| 21:22 |
paramat |
merging |
| 21:27 |
paramat |
complete |
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| 23:39 |
paramat |
#5014 |
| 23:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5014 -- Sky: Do not darken in dark places when above water_level by paramat |
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