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| 03:45 |
est31 |
grumble grumble |
| 03:45 |
est31 |
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16922871/why-glibcs-fclosenull-cause-segmentation-fault-instead-of-returning-error#comment37411818_16922924 |
| 04:07 |
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lezzy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/751 |
| 04:30 |
lezzy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/752 |
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| 14:20 |
vitaminx |
hi all, I have a problem with my minetest server and I wonder if you could help me, a couple of times per day the server suddenly eats all of it's RAM (e.g. minetestserver uses 300 MB, then suddenly from one moment to another it takes all 2GB from the server) - and then minetestserver is killed by the OS (Linux) because out of memory |
| 14:21 |
Calinou |
vitaminx, latest Git or stable 0.4.13? |
| 14:21 |
vitaminx |
both |
| 14:21 |
vitaminx |
0.4.11 and 0.4.13 |
| 14:21 |
vitaminx |
theres a huge amount of this messages in logs: |
| 14:21 |
vitaminx |
initBlockMake(): (-33,-1934,-60) - (-33,-1934,-60) |
| 14:21 |
vitaminx |
p=(-33,-1934,-58) allow_generate=1 |
| 14:21 |
vitaminx |
not in memory, attempting to load from disk |
| 14:22 |
vitaminx |
generating |
| 14:22 |
vitaminx |
i was googleing and found that -33,-1934,-60 seems to be block coordinates which is extremely far |
| 14:23 |
vitaminx |
i was wondering how to translate these block coords to node coords? |
| 14:24 |
Calinou |
a block is 16×16×16 |
| 14:29 |
Krock |
so multiplicate everything by 16 to get the absolute position |
| 14:29 |
vitaminx |
ok thanks, lets see whats at this coord :) |
| 14:34 |
vitaminx |
ok yes, when i travel to that location the map under my feet doesnt generate and the server crashes |
| 14:34 |
vitaminx |
by consuming all server RAM |
| 14:34 |
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| 14:37 |
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| 14:37 |
vitaminx |
is that a known problem that the server can't handle y> -30944 ? |
| 14:37 |
vitaminx |
i mean y< |
| 14:38 |
kaadmy |
they're different :) |
| 14:38 |
Krock |
Isn't that the lowest position? |
| 14:38 |
kaadmy |
negative coords go up |
| 14:38 |
kaadmy |
wait down |
| 14:38 |
Krock |
negative is down |
| 14:39 |
Krock |
positive is up, otherwise the mt. everest would be 8048m under sea |
| 14:39 |
vitaminx |
yes, is that the lowest position minetest can handle? |
| 14:39 |
Krock |
oh sorry, I meant Mt. Minetest |
| 14:39 |
kaadmy |
the ~31000 node limit is known, 16 bit signed int limitation afaik |
| 14:40 |
Krock |
-32768 to be exact.. however, there's some space in between |
| 14:40 |
vitaminx |
ok good then i think i have to limit the /teleport command somehow to avoid players crashing the server to their likings :) |
| 14:40 |
vitaminx |
thanks for the info |
| 14:43 |
kaadmy |
https://github.com/kaadmy/pixture/blob/master/mods/default/player.lua#L15 |
| 14:43 |
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| 14:44 |
Krock |
*cough* if math.abs(player_pos.x) > 30000 then |
| 14:45 |
Krock |
what if you fall down there? |
| 14:48 |
vitaminx |
i have never seen that "Don't go past 30000m in any direction!" message |
| 14:49 |
vitaminx |
player:setpos(player_lastpos[name]) doesn't seem to work |
| 14:49 |
kaadmy |
i added that part |
| 14:50 |
vitaminx |
just now? |
| 14:50 |
vitaminx |
wow |
| 14:50 |
kaadmy |
yes, there's more code needed, namely the globalstep and the player's positions |
| 14:50 |
vitaminx |
awesome, thanks :D |
| 14:51 |
kaadmy |
that's part of Pixture though, not i n minetest_game |
| 14:55 |
vitaminx |
i' going to add your change to my server too |
| 14:55 |
vitaminx |
thanks :) |
| 14:56 |
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| 15:01 |
vitaminx |
kaadmy, your change crashes the server :D |
| 15:01 |
kaadmy |
it does... works for pixture, whats the error? |
| 15:01 |
vitaminx |
player.lua:131: a ttempt to index global 'player_lastpos' (a nil value) |
| 15:02 |
vitaminx |
i guess when a player connects his player_lastpos is nil |
| 15:03 |
kaadmy |
look at my on_joinplayer function |
| 15:04 |
vitaminx |
ok i see |
| 15:04 |
kaadmy |
and you might want to make ot nil when the player quits |
| 15:05 |
vitaminx |
that would still be a problem when a player connects who was beyond 30000 limit when he last left the game |
| 15:06 |
kaadmy |
ah yes |
| 15:07 |
kaadmy |
maybe put them at the static_spawnpoint if player_lastpos is farther then 30000? |
| 15:10 |
vitaminx |
yes, i'm doing that |
| 15:14 |
Krock |
kaadmy, "fart er"? |
| 15:14 |
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| 15:14 |
kaadmy |
um |
| 15:27 |
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| 15:39 |
vitaminx |
thanks for the help, the limits work now :( |
| 15:39 |
vitaminx |
:) |
| 15:39 |
vitaminx |
if someone's last_pos is off limits too, he is simply teleported to spawn |
| 15:40 |
vitaminx |
see you :) |
| 15:41 |
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kaadmy |
you have network problems? :) |
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| 19:35 |
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| 19:35 |
RealBadAngel |
hi guys, whats up? |
| 19:36 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, ive commented your "ingot" drawtype |
| 19:38 |
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| 19:39 |
sapier |
I don't know realbadangel but the commit does implement exactly what you suggest ;-) |
| 19:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean mesh is ok, the drawtype is wrong |
| 19:41 |
sapier |
then why don't you write it that way? ;-) |
| 19:41 |
RealBadAngel |
also the commit is not about to show meshes in inventories |
| 19:41 |
sapier |
it is |
| 19:41 |
sapier |
it started with custom ingot type but that one is already removed again ;-) |
| 19:42 |
RealBadAngel |
you are using old way, to make a scene and prepare texture for further use |
| 19:42 |
sapier |
oh this is what you're talking about |
| 19:42 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 19:42 |
sapier |
is there a new way? |
| 19:42 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc it is |
| 19:42 |
sapier |
where? |
| 19:42 |
RealBadAngel |
see minimap |
| 19:42 |
RealBadAngel |
it is displaying a mesh |
| 19:42 |
sapier |
minimap ain't inventory |
| 19:43 |
RealBadAngel |
technique is important |
| 19:43 |
sapier |
and the only thing I heared about minimap by now is it's causing framedrop of about 90% ;-) |
| 19:43 |
RealBadAngel |
theres absolutely no reason to render the scene to get texture |
| 19:43 |
RealBadAngel |
you can display mesh |
| 19:44 |
sapier |
well obviously noone did implement this for inventory |
| 19:44 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, on slow boxes thats propably right |
| 19:44 |
sapier |
so there's no new way for this ... I'd have used it ;-) |
| 19:44 |
RealBadAngel |
but im not developing stuff for museum |
| 19:45 |
sapier |
well if you consider android phones as museum stuff ;-P |
| 19:45 |
sapier |
slow doesn't mean old in a lot of cases |
| 19:45 |
RealBadAngel |
android and other portable devices are kinda joke |
| 19:45 |
RealBadAngel |
they pretend to be computers |
| 19:45 |
RealBadAngel |
but they wont be for a long time |
| 19:45 |
RealBadAngel |
not yet |
| 19:45 |
sapier |
those "jokes" you mentioned drive 90% of current society |
| 19:46 |
sapier |
no matter what they are as of technical perspective their presence is a matter of fact ;) |
| 19:46 |
RealBadAngel |
that not an argument |
| 19:46 |
RealBadAngel |
you cant deny the engine is not made for mobiles |
| 19:47 |
sapier |
but that's irrelevant for the discussion can you please update your comment to actually reflect what you wanted to tell ;-) |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
at last at their current stage |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
thyere way behind regular pc |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
and that wont change any soon |
| 19:47 |
sapier |
I don't deny it but imho we shouldn't add things that cause 90% framedrop as default if there's no need for it too |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
regular PC has power to do things |
| 19:48 |
sapier |
imho pc doesn't have future |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
and i will use it |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 19:48 |
sapier |
atm you're loughing but let's talk about it in about 5 years from now |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
in 5 yrs situation can change |
| 19:49 |
sapier |
there ain't any mainstream os out there which requires a pc |
| 19:49 |
RealBadAngel |
but i highly doubt so |
| 19:49 |
exio4 |
is the minimap updated too frequently? |
| 19:49 |
exio4 |
are those updates done in a separate thread? |
| 19:49 |
RealBadAngel |
not really |
| 19:49 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 19:49 |
sapier |
windows 10 is basicaly a cloud os which moves everything you wanted to cloud android always was quite coupled to cloud and ios is too |
| 19:50 |
RealBadAngel |
on my box it was possible to run minimap at 60 fps |
| 19:50 |
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| 19:50 |
RealBadAngel |
and im on low end i3 |
| 19:50 |
sapier |
on pc minimap aint a problem |
| 19:50 |
RealBadAngel |
try to run it on any "multicore" portable watch like computer |
| 19:51 |
RealBadAngel |
on my galaxy tab 4 i had to disable multitasking and multiple apps running same time |
| 19:51 |
sapier |
Still it's been about mesh items for what I remember there ain't any code out there really rendering them is it? |
| 19:51 |
RealBadAngel |
because it was draining battery in like 1,5h |
| 19:52 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, lets leave offtopic now |
| 19:52 |
RealBadAngel |
you can set a window and display there a mesh of your choice |
| 19:52 |
RealBadAngel |
minimap is done as a flat mesh with single texture |
| 19:52 |
sapier |
no I can't ;-) |
| 19:53 |
RealBadAngel |
but it can be any mesh |
| 19:53 |
sapier |
I == me personal |
| 19:53 |
sapier |
as I don't know how to do it and there's not even similar code to it ;-) |
| 19:53 |
RealBadAngel |
so, if you can display any mesh, easily, why bother to set render scene, fiddle and collect the texture? |
| 19:54 |
sapier |
well that'd touch formspec code which I've promised myself never ever to touch again |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
this is total waste of time and the resources |
| 19:54 |
sapier |
if it's that easy why didn't someone already do it ? |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, it could be easy to set selected one rotating |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
for example |
| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
i cant code 20 things at the time :P |
| 19:55 |
sapier |
And I can't do it at all because I don't know how to do it |
| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
displaying is not that hard |
| 19:56 |
sapier |
I just know I'd have to get those entities somehow to scene and get it out of it later which is way beyond my knowledge about minetests rendering engine |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
propably replacing formspec methods will be more time consuming |
| 19:56 |
sapier |
don't mention the name |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, wait a sec, i will point you a piece of code |
| 19:57 |
sapier |
next time you mention the words "replacing" and "formspec" to me I'm out ;-P |
| 19:57 |
sapier |
if it's formspec you can save the time as I'm not gonna even look at it ;-) |
| 19:57 |
sapier |
for sure not |
| 19:58 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/minimap.cpp#L471 |
| 19:58 |
RealBadAngel |
you just set a new viewport |
| 19:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and display there a mesh of your choice |
| 19:59 |
RealBadAngel |
viewport can be of inventory slot size |
| 19:59 |
RealBadAngel |
thats all |
| 19:59 |
sapier |
I don't even know how to setup a viewport properly and I'm quite sure I'd have to manage them for cleanup too ... and next is inventory is part of FORMSPEC ... no no I burnt my fingers to often there |
| 20:00 |
RealBadAngel |
read this code |
| 20:00 |
RealBadAngel |
you just set pos and size |
| 20:00 |
sapier |
nope formspec code is out of question for me |
| 20:01 |
RealBadAngel |
chicken ;) |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
well I added a simple no use no change feature pull and read the conversation ;-) |
| 20:03 |
sapier |
what do you believe will happen if there's a actual change in regular game?! |
| 20:03 |
RealBadAngel |
you made it all backwards |
| 20:04 |
sapier |
btw this pull wouldn't cause any legacy issues if you did later implement it the way you suggest |
| 20:04 |
sapier |
no i didn't I just used what's current |
| 20:04 |
sapier |
can't help about you thinking in future features not yet implemented by yourself ;-) |
| 20:05 |
RealBadAngel |
in case you havent noticed im turning all the drawtypes into meshes |
| 20:06 |
sapier |
hopefully you'll be more successfull then me when even trying to add something different then extruded images ;-P |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
i have effectively made nodeboxes obsolote |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
good ... they've been crap since they have been added |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
ive made another extrustion code, yeah |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
imho of course |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
well it's only usefull for quite limited part of items |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
quite different that two previous attempts |
| 20:07 |
sapier |
most just look horrible |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
not rly |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
i intend to make 3d l-system plants |
| 20:08 |
RealBadAngel |
old plantlike is just a step to be taken on the way |
| 20:08 |
sapier |
still till you finished it we could add the mesh item thingy you'd already have the item meshes you'll need anyway |
| 20:09 |
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| 20:09 |
RealBadAngel |
so drop the specific drawtypes ideas, made evertyhin use provided meshes |
| 20:09 |
RealBadAngel |
if theres no mesh, fallback to old code |
| 20:11 |
RealBadAngel |
you can make then any mesh for your ingots |
| 20:12 |
RealBadAngel |
and when im done with plants, i will make formspec displaying them |
| 20:12 |
RealBadAngel |
so we will get rid of preloading item visuals |
| 20:13 |
sapier |
did you notice there's no ingot drawtype in the current version of that pull?!? |
| 20:14 |
RealBadAngel |
i did but i know what was the idea behind it and where it started |
| 20:14 |
RealBadAngel |
just havent time before to comment it out |
| 20:14 |
sapier |
well in the begining ther was the word |
| 20:14 |
RealBadAngel |
better later than never right? ;) |
| 20:15 |
sapier |
well if the comment doesn't even match the current topic it may cause more harm then help ;-) |
| 20:16 |
RealBadAngel |
sorry then, didnt wanted to cause any harm |
| 20:16 |
sapier |
I renamed the pull obviously the initial special ingot thingy is dead and the actual later mesh only variant is better ... as I blieve noone will actually notice the change and realize all the upper comments are invalid I'll close the pull create a new branch reflecting the current topic of it and create a new pull ;-) |
| 20:17 |
RealBadAngel |
as i did already? ;) |
| 20:17 |
RealBadAngel |
propably youre right |
| 20:18 |
RealBadAngel |
but dont worry, time taken to learn how define meshes and uv is not lost |
| 20:19 |
RealBadAngel |
there will be still specific meshes done runtime, we still dont have cables etc |
| 20:20 |
RealBadAngel |
on the other hand we shall drop such idiotic drawtypes as torches or ladders |
| 20:20 |
RealBadAngel |
especially torches |
| 20:21 |
RealBadAngel |
spaier, btw, have you saw video with waving 3d plants already? |
| 20:22 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3479 better? |
| 20:22 |
sapier |
code is 100% identical ;-) just squashed the commits adding and removing the special type |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
if 3479 is added chances there will be meshes for major types by the time you replace inventory textures by actual renderings would drasticaly increas |
| 20:24 |
sapier |
e |
| 20:24 |
RealBadAngel |
thats the clue of the change |
| 20:24 |
RealBadAngel |
just let them use meshes |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
see, if theres a mesh defined, formspec code can show them directly |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
at any size, rotation or whatever |
| 20:26 |
RealBadAngel |
also there wont be any extra texture for such items |
| 20:26 |
RealBadAngel |
so it will be saving ram |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
thats worthy goal, dont you think so? |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
not to mention saving on startup time :) |
| 20:28 |
RealBadAngel |
that too |
| 20:28 |
RealBadAngel |
and personally i would love to see selected item in the inventory to spin |
| 20:29 |
sapier |
well for the moment we don't have anything like it and quite some ppl which don't wanna miss their 16x16 item textures |
| 20:29 |
RealBadAngel |
you can make 16px models |
| 20:30 |
sapier |
I can write 30 minutes of 3d video in 100kb too ... well not me personal ;-) |
| 20:30 |
RealBadAngel |
i will make such models for all the plants at the end |
| 20:30 |
sapier |
you could do it maybe |
| 20:30 |
RealBadAngel |
i will export the mehses just |
| 20:30 |
RealBadAngel |
once done, no need to recalcuate them each time |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
what I'm trying to tell is 3479 provides (visual) same as what you're gonna implement at first step with way less code changes and full upwards compatibility ;-) so why not merge it till your code is completed? |
| 20:32 |
RealBadAngel |
yours change is worht mergeing already |
| 20:32 |
sapier |
the only thing that may happen is you may suffer from "not invented here"-syndrom because you might have to use someone elses meshes which have become popular in between |
| 20:32 |
sapier |
if and only if someone really does create meshes ;-) |
| 20:32 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont |
| 20:33 |
RealBadAngel |
they will create them |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
I wont do it for sure as the meshes are part of game :-) |
| 20:33 |
RealBadAngel |
just give them a way |
| 20:34 |
sapier |
in this case we don't have any problem too ... the only thing relevant is if calling the parameters "mesh" and "meshtexture" is what you want/need for your future implementation |
| 20:34 |
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| 20:34 |
sapier |
I usually don't care about names so if you prefere different naming I'll change it |
| 20:34 |
RealBadAngel |
see mesh drawtype |
| 20:35 |
RealBadAngel |
textures are given in "tiles" |
| 20:36 |
RealBadAngel |
one single texture can hold everything |
| 20:36 |
RealBadAngel |
also, theres another reason to introduce different "tiles" field |
| 20:36 |
sapier |
so meshtexture should be renamed to "tiles" for historc reasons? |
| 20:37 |
sapier |
which reason? |
| 20:37 |
RealBadAngel |
ive extended recently tiles a lot |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: one single texture often should NOT hold "everything" |
| 20:37 |
RealBadAngel |
not in meshes |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
most meshes I make use multiple textures/materials because then the collection of files used can be smaller than a single texture (think unused space in the image), and it makes HDX support much easier |
| 20:38 |
RealBadAngel |
also, my extension to tiles is an ability to specify two additional texutres for the mesh and the shader |
| 20:39 |
RealBadAngel |
you can bound there easily, noise map, normal map or whatever the texure with special data for rendering |
| 20:40 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean thats very generic thing, so there shall not be any other specific ones imho |
| 20:40 |
sapier |
so tiles is either a string or a table of strings? |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
tile can be a set of 3 textures |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
diffuse, normal plus the special |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
why not four? |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
4th is reserved for shader flags |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
ok then why not 5? |
| 20:42 |
RealBadAngel |
because irrlicht max materials is set to 4 |
| 20:42 |
RealBadAngel |
we dont have our own irrlicht, we are using external libs |
| 20:43 |
sapier |
ok yet is there any logical reason to limit it to 3/4 whatever instead of just accepting whatever is passed and ignoring the ones we don't need atm? |
| 20:43 |
RealBadAngel |
if you compile it you can set that limit to whatever you wish |
| 20:43 |
sapier |
come one compile time limits are ugly |
| 20:44 |
RealBadAngel |
with bundled irrlicht you could set it to 16 and forget bout the problem |
| 20:44 |
sapier |
I'd suggest providing a tiles property accepting either "string" (a single texture) or table of strings (1+ tiles) |
| 20:44 |
RealBadAngel |
we do that already, kind of |
| 20:45 |
RealBadAngel |
what ive done is the extension to defining a single one |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
tiles should, in my opinion, be strictly image textures, not for normalmaps etc. |
| 20:45 |
sapier |
ok then we don't have to change anything and I'll just rename "meshtexture" to "tiles" |
| 20:45 |
RealBadAngel |
you can define it as a single texture field, or a table with lotsa other settings |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
for those, there should be a separate item def field. |
| 20:45 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, yeah |
| 20:45 |
sapier |
ok guys settle yourself and I'm gonna change it to whatever you've decided |
| 20:46 |
RealBadAngel |
that mechanism was already there |
| 20:46 |
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| 20:46 |
RealBadAngel |
lava, water animations were defined as tables already |
| 20:46 |
RealBadAngel |
so the tile could be a table long way before my changes |
| 20:48 |
sapier |
true but as of me I always considered "tile" as some kind of legacy naming |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, https://github.com/RealBadAngel/shaded_lava/blob/master/init.lua#L1 |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
see sample nodes using new method |
| 20:49 |
sapier |
lava source node? ... You've got a talent for bad examples equal to mine ;) |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
better try the code live before commenting :) |
| 20:50 |
sapier |
on the other hand it's quite smart to add it for something nobody sees first an later tell everyone "it's in there for ages" |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
the shader was here for ages |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
but now i thx to tangent space i was able to polish it |
| 20:51 |
sapier |
well disabled by almost everyone because of not working correct ;) *joking* |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, grab the tree |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and check water and lava shaders |
| 20:52 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3391#issuecomment-160397741 |
| 20:53 |
RealBadAngel |
ive made water shaders with flowing one |
| 20:54 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: make some up-to-date videos |
| 20:54 |
VanessaE |
save him from having to clone+compile :) |
| 20:54 |
RealBadAngel |
none of the vids will give you the feeling |
| 20:54 |
RealBadAngel |
you have to see it on your own |
| 20:54 |
VanessaE |
what's the difference? |
| 20:54 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont be sending HD vids over mobile? ;) |
| 20:55 |
VanessaE |
oh |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
but joking, this is about game play feel |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
when you walk to the shore and see waves |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
you have to play with it |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
well you know I've seen your recent water shader up close. it worked well for me, just needed specular highlighting on the water |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
(well that and you hadn't yet, at the time, finished dealing with flowing water) |
| 20:56 |
RealBadAngel |
water shader next step will be reflections |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
nah |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
dkip yhsy |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
er |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
skip that |
| 20:56 |
RealBadAngel |
and some other math |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
keep the shaders simple. reflections add too much shader work |
| 20:57 |
RealBadAngel |
atm i do have NICE surface and PERFECT flowing |
| 20:57 |
RealBadAngel |
without animation frames |
| 20:58 |
RealBadAngel |
notice that out of sync blocks water surface does not apply here |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
yeah I saw that |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
so...you gonna release that code as "final" soon? |
| 20:59 |
VanessaE |
stop working on 10 somewhat-related things all at once and make a damn PR :) |
| 20:59 |
RealBadAngel |
well, BlockMen commented that some parts of the PR "are not necesary" |
| 21:00 |
RealBadAngel |
he obviously doesnt know what he is talking about, dont wanna join irc to let him explain |
| 21:00 |
RealBadAngel |
he is propably blocking the pr just for fun, or whatever |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
I doubt that |
| 21:00 |
RealBadAngel |
see github talk |
| 21:01 |
RealBadAngel |
he thinks that forcing filtering is about those pity 16px textures |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
it's more about the style of the game |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
doesn't much matter if it's 16px really |
| 21:02 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, "player could choose to see pixels" |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
it's more that you shouldn't smooth some things but not smooth other things. |
| 21:02 |
RealBadAngel |
Users should be able to decide whether they want see pixels in water (or whatever) texture or not |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
something like that needs to be an all-or-nothing setting |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
will your effect work without filtering? |
| 21:02 |
RealBadAngel |
thats what he said |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
dumbass |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
theres no texture at all |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
there's a normal isn't there? |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
normalmap* |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
thats noise |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
texture is math |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
yes, but that adds "texture" i.e. "feel" |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
all is pure math |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
there are no normalmaps associated with this anymore? |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
or parallax maps, depth maps, etc? |
| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
ok that changes things somewhat,. |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
BUT |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
what does the effect look like without filtering? |
| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
theres just noise map, perturbation map rather |
| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
which is highly deformed with time |
| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
point of filtering is to make it smooth |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
so answer my question |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
what exactly does the effect look like without filtering? |
| 21:05 |
RealBadAngel |
i could avoid filtering if i choose to use 1024px + perturbation maps |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
with water pixelated waves effect is gone at distance of 5-10 nodes |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
lava on the other hand is much worse |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
damn it just answer the question |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
what. does. it. look. like? |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
shitty |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
(and don't say "like shit") |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
damn it, ninja'd. |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont alloow the code to be used without filtering |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
howgh |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
you have to if you want it to go in at all |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
im coding visuals, theres no half way there |
| 21:08 |
VanessaE |
because in all honesty, I would have to block it too. |
| 21:08 |
RealBadAngel |
either it looks as intended or theres no such effect |
| 21:08 |
RealBadAngel |
its not a blocky feeling as you think or used to |
| 21:08 |
RealBadAngel |
its about too small input files |
| 21:09 |
RealBadAngel |
would you really like me to force using 1024px textures? |
| 21:09 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 21:09 |
RealBadAngel |
while i can use 256x plus filters? |
| 21:09 |
RealBadAngel |
effect will be the same |
| 21:09 |
VanessaE |
if it were in my power, I would insist on a setting to selectively enable the filtering on the water separate from the "overall" filtering that's currently offered. |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
also i could oversample the texture runtime |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
and all will be crying about performance |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
think a bit |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, well, its hows its done... |
| 21:11 |
VanessaE |
"think a bit" "crying about performance".... meanwhile minetest is so CPU-bound that even my badass GPU doesn't help. |
| 21:11 |
RealBadAngel |
the effects demands the filter enabled ONLY for this very node |
| 21:11 |
VanessaE |
WHY does the effect "demand" it? |
| 21:11 |
VanessaE |
why exactly? |
| 21:11 |
RealBadAngel |
i told you |
| 21:11 |
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| 21:11 |
VanessaE |
well tell me again. :P |
| 21:11 |
RealBadAngel |
to get the quality |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
that's not a good enough answer. |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
its more than enough |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
that's a purely subjective response,. |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
it needs to be some objective reason. |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
save ram |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
is it better? |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
forcing filters to be turned on, but without any changes to the code or assets, saves RAM? |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
256x is smaller than 1024x |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
no one is saying you should use a higher-resolution texture. ever. |
| 21:13 |
RealBadAngel |
ive designed the water shader, i want it to be of quality i designed it |
| 21:13 |
RealBadAngel |
period |
| 21:13 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont wanna some1 to break it and complain it does look shitty |
| 21:13 |
sapier |
great my monorail/carts mod is still working after not fixing anything for a year |
| 21:14 |
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| 21:14 |
RealBadAngel |
this is most advanced shader ive ever made, spent shitload of time to fine tune it and look just awesome |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
I k now it does. |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
but you HAVE to allow people to turn those filters off, |
| 21:15 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont allow it to be broken |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
for example, when I'm using default textures, I never enable filtering |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
I don't like the blurry look that goes with it |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
but with HDX, absolutely I'll use the filtering, because at that resolution it looks good |
| 21:16 |
RealBadAngel |
this is not about it being blurry |
| 21:16 |
RealBadAngel |
its about accuracy |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
others don't use filtering for whatever reasons, maybe it adds CPU load they don't want |
| 21:17 |
RealBadAngel |
hell, get them and try both versions |
| 21:17 |
RealBadAngel |
just set filters disable in mod |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
why are you so hell-bent on not giving the user the option? |
| 21:17 |
RealBadAngel |
and see the change |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
this is not a goddam option |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
its breaking my code or not |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
it is NOT breaking your cxode |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
code* |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
well |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
it would just be a different look than you expect. |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
lets call it my artistic vision |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
not the code |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
that's fine, but |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
if it comes to "artistic vision" it immediately gets into "this is mod/game territory" |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
hrmm hrmmm, its a mod that adds such water? ;) |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
the engine is almost never about 'artistic vision' to be honest |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
the PR itself is about tools to make such shaders possible |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
what ive done in my mod is my own business |
| 21:20 |
VanessaE |
right but your shaders are themselves in-engine right now. |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
water and lava are not |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
and propably never will, theyre just too nice ;) |
| 21:21 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
"not enough voxelish" ;) |
| 21:21 |
VanessaE |
what's the PR link again? |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
a sec |
| 21:22 |
RealBadAngel |
#3391 |
| 21:22 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3391 |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
so why then are we even *talking* about the water stuff at all? |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
why aren't you targeting something way simpler? |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
like some funky cartoon shader or something |
| 21:23 |
RealBadAngel |
first of all, changes were made having some goals in mind |
| 21:24 |
RealBadAngel |
all of them require protocol bump |
| 21:24 |
RealBadAngel |
why should i split them? |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
becuase, again, the engine is no place for "artistic vision" to be enforced. |
| 21:24 |
RealBadAngel |
also, if i split it, my target shader wont work as i expect it to work |
| 21:25 |
VanessaE |
make your PR as generic as possible regarding what a mod-provided shader can do |
| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
so, why should i have half a solution usable for nothing? |
| 21:25 |
VanessaE |
take all talk of water/lava shaders off to a separate GAME pull request. |
| 21:25 |
VanessaE |
(one which, no doubt, will still be declined) |
| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
either modder can do everything with a shader or nothing |
| 21:26 |
RealBadAngel |
this change is way more than just generic |
| 21:26 |
RealBadAngel |
its a fucking freedom to do anything you want to |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
that's what generic means in this contex. |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
context* |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
ive let shaders be feed with any data and settings |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
no specific thing being enforced, maximum amount of freedom for the modder (within reason of course). |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
what shader designer will want, he can do |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
he can write completely new shader now |
| 21:28 |
VanessaE |
that's fine |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
and put them on client side |
| 21:28 |
VanessaE |
but NOT if your liquid shaders are forced to go with it |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
and devs hands fff |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
off |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
its not forced |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
PR is about the tools for it only |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
shader and the mods for it are just an example what can be achieved |
| 21:29 |
VanessaE |
then take all of the talk for that out of the PR |
| 21:29 |
VanessaE |
stop confusing theissue |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
and i will propably never make a PR with them to minetest_game |
| 21:30 |
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| 21:31 |
RealBadAngel |
youre trying to tell me that folks like blockmen got scared of what it allows? ;) |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
I'm trying to say that you're mixing code with sentiment in your PR and it has to go. |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
it's no wonder he's blocking you |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
(and you know perfectly well I won't budge on this :P )_ |
| 21:32 |
RealBadAngel |
what could stop him to make a default minetest_game mod with water shader NOT forcing any filters state? |
| 21:33 |
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| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
and why this freedom of his choice should stop mine? |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
heh? |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
if youre fighting wiht the sword, you can die by the sword :P |
| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont change my opinion, sorry |
| 21:40 |
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| 21:40 |
hmmmm |
I agree with BlockMen |
| 21:40 |
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| 21:41 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, tried the shader with filters enabled and disabled? |
| 21:41 |
hmmmm |
if it's necessary to have texture filtering with the use of a certain shader, perhaps that shader can specify options such as "needs bi-linear filtering" or similar so when it does run, it automatically turns on bilinear filtering |
| 21:41 |
hmmmm |
(of course, it should be disable-able) |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
if the shaders needs it, it forces it (only for this very node) |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
and this is up to nodedef - a mod that introduces that shader |
| 21:43 |
RealBadAngel |
this "option" is not designed to be user choice |
| 21:43 |
hmmmm |
erm, unless I am misunderstanding something here, the thing BlockMen is standing against is changing a default option regardless of whether or not a node needs it |
| 21:43 |
RealBadAngel |
the force_filtering options is designed to affect only single node |
| 21:43 |
RealBadAngel |
when its badly needed |
| 21:44 |
RealBadAngel |
overall settings are not affected |
| 21:45 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why i moved so much about filtering code around here |
| 21:45 |
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| 21:46 |
RealBadAngel |
this is simply very specific case |
| 21:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i, as the shader designer, do know that the shader will need it, so i assure that it will be used no matter what |
| 21:47 |
RealBadAngel |
about other nodes i do not care at this point |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
alright I see what it is you're doing |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
I added a comment on the PR concerning this matter. |
| 21:49 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: your comment sums up my thoughts on it. |
| 21:49 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, as i mentioned eariler, i could avoid that, but at the cost of much more larger input files |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
does it? i didn't read the whole chat above |
| 21:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i do really think thats tradeoff is fair |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
?? there doesn't need to be any tradeoff |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
I don't understand the issue here |
| 21:50 |
RealBadAngel |
filtering provides smoothing of input data |
| 21:50 |
RealBadAngel |
do note, thats not the texture |
| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
I just want there to be another setting on the client so that the end user always has the final say in how their nodes look |
| 21:51 |
RealBadAngel |
same quality with water shader im getting a) with 256x perturbance map + force filtering b) 1024x data without filters at all |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
you know how there are 4 levels of antialiasing, DEP, and so on? |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
"force off", "off", "on", "force on" |
| 21:52 |
RealBadAngel |
doesnt apply there... |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
explain to me *why* this doesn't apply here |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
because maybe I'm missing some fundamental detail |
| 21:52 |
RealBadAngel |
im doing the texture on the fly |
| 21:52 |
RealBadAngel |
with math |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
yes..? |
| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
how you could apply antyaliasing, and all those to something that is made each frame? as continous surface per whole seen scene? |
| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
you cant |
| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
its not a damn texture at all |
| 21:54 |
VanessaE |
I want to see side-by-side screenshots of the shader - with and without your forced filters. |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
I don't care if it doesn't give the whole picture. it'll be enough. |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
what?? I just brought up antialiasing because that's a common case where the graphics driver gives two sets of "on" and "off" states |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
as another example of where the user gets the final say in how something is rendered |
| 21:55 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, you are making same wrong assumption as others |
| 21:56 |
RealBadAngel |
we are not taling about the texures for damn sake |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
I get that it's not a texture and it's generated on the fly |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
but what if the user doesn't want trilinear filtering for that generated "thing"? |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
are you guys talking about filters that may or may not be supported by gpu or by something done by cpu anyway? |
| 21:56 |
RealBadAngel |
i need to smooth input files |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
what is the input file then? |
| 21:56 |
RealBadAngel |
the source for math im using |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
is that a texture? |
| 21:57 |
RealBadAngel |
you can open it in gimp, yes |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
ok... |
| 21:57 |
RealBadAngel |
wanna try? :) |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
no I don't really want to try. |
| 21:57 |
RealBadAngel |
its looking something close to normal map |
| 21:57 |
RealBadAngel |
its a perturbation map |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
but I don't get why it *has* to be enabled |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
we're argueing about shaders but didn't get simple signs done in more then 2 years ... quite dissapointing |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
otherwise waves wont be smooth |
| 21:58 |
hmmmm |
sapier, I'm not actually working on anything at the moment :) |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and you will see pixels floating all around |
| 21:58 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, maybe users don't want them to be smooth.. |
| 21:58 |
hmmmm |
well I made my stance known |
| 21:58 |
hmmmm |
I'm outta here |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, dare to try it? |
| 21:58 |
hmmmm |
I really don't give a flying crap about minetest |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
you can easily judge it by yourself |
| 21:59 |
hmmmm |
just want other devs to make good design decisions |
| 21:59 |
RealBadAngel |
theres a PR to allow things, and theres a mod that makes use of it |
| 21:59 |
RealBadAngel |
you can try it on and off |
| 21:59 |
sapier |
hmmmm: you'll find at least one user wanting almost everything ;-) |
| 22:00 |
RealBadAngel |
PR itself doesnt force anything |
| 22:00 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3391#issuecomment-160397741 |
| 22:00 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, trying to explain animation effect is plain dumb |
| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
please all of you try it on your own |
| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/water_shaders/blob/master/init.lua#L15 |
| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
at the line above you can disable forcing the filter |
| 22:01 |
hmmmm |
besides, I wouldn't even be able to try it on my own |
| 22:02 |
sapier |
does "Allow mods to define which shader to use for a node" really mean a node specifys which shader to use and not the setting done in setting? |
| 22:02 |
hmmmm |
despite my powerful GTX660, minetest would run at like 5 FPS |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
sapier: it means the mod can supply the shader code itself. |
| 22:02 |
sapier |
really BAD |
| 22:02 |
sapier |
because this means a mod will cause some devices to crash due to lack of shader support |
| 22:02 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel is mostly concerned about flashy graphical effects than optimizing what's already there |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
or incompatible shaders provided |
| 22:03 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, idk what have you done to your distro, but my most cheap i3, 4gb ram, gtx 550ti, runs mostly at 60fps |
| 22:03 |
hmmmm |
you can clearly see most people want minetest to run well instead, but user feedback be damned, he'll do what he wants to do |
| 22:03 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, not really |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
not even talking about the security implications if a mod is able to download arbitrary code to cpu |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
gpu |
| 22:03 |
RealBadAngel |
this allows to define also default shader used |
| 22:03 |
RealBadAngel |
and this can be defined very lite |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
can they be defined as "none" too? |
| 22:04 |
RealBadAngel |
later on we can code fallback to that lite one in case of compilation failed (or lack of support for it) |
| 22:04 |
sapier |
where to find your current code rba? |
| 22:04 |
sapier |
for what I remember shaders don't work at all on android so lite wouldn't be light enough |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3391#issuecomment-160397741 |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE |
sapier: shaders DO work on android but in limited ways |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
for android we will need totally different shaders |
| 22:05 |
sapier |
well those minetest provides don't work |
| 22:05 |
RealBadAngel |
nothing fancy propably |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE |
sapier: they used to. waving leaves for example. |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
I've seen such even on my old android 2.3 device (that old piece of crap Xelio tab) |
| 22:06 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, geometry ones will work propably |
| 22:06 |
sapier |
and do correct me if I'm wrong shaders usually are quite gpu specific? |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
not sure if that's still the case though./ |
| 22:06 |
RealBadAngel |
android devices are limited in materials |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
sapier: they're not *supposed* to be GPU-specific |
| 22:06 |
RealBadAngel |
so bumpmapping etc wont be possible without rude hacks |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
rather, AMD-or-nVidia-specific |
| 22:07 |
sapier |
well what about mali adreno .... ? |
| 22:07 |
VanessaE |
mail adrino? |
| 22:07 |
VanessaE |
mali* |
| 22:07 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, thats all about how mobiles are compared to boxes |
| 22:07 |
RealBadAngel |
they cant do even shaders lol |
| 22:07 |
sapier |
there's way more then those two gpu manufactures |
| 22:08 |
RealBadAngel |
and try to convince me once again that PC's are dying rotfl |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
sapier: oh, well I wasn't trying to single-out (dual-out?) those two |
| 22:08 |
Calinou |
there's Intel… |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
shaders are language-specific, either GLSL or HLSL |
| 22:08 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: obviously they can do shader just different to what your pc's do |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
and afaik if it's GLSL and simple enough, it should work everywhere |
| 22:08 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, most of the effects are impossible |
| 22:08 |
sapier |
thanks Calinou almost forgot the most important gpu supplier |
| 22:09 |
RealBadAngel |
those units are just too weak |
| 22:09 |
hmmmm |
dunno I'm gonna be honest here |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
you don't need to enable them on mobile, just on desktop |
| 22:09 |
hmmmm |
most of RBA's advanced effects look cheesy imho |
| 22:09 |
sapier |
high end mobile devices have more power then my desktop pc! |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
I'd like bloom/HDR :p |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
rather than the water shader which IMO brings nothing |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
yeah agreed |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
I wouldn't mind a basic bloom filter |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
or whatever it is that causes light to "blur" around the edges of stuff |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
well my pc is 7 years old atm so it's kind of unfair to compare :-) |
| 22:10 |
Fixer |
PCs are not dying, it is just matured market, same will be for mobile in some future, calm down the hype |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
if water actually brought reflection/refraction it'd be useful |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
VanessaE, lens flare is also possible, and cheaper |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
there's more to shaders than "make pixely nodes look blockier with tesselation/bumpmapping" |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
would work mostly for torches only |
| 22:10 |
RealBadAngel |
hold your horses guys |
| 22:10 |
RealBadAngel |
do you have multiple rendering passes? |
| 22:10 |
RealBadAngel |
no? |
| 22:11 |
RealBadAngel |
so no bloom :P |
| 22:11 |
sapier |
Fixer: that's a matter of believe but imho PC's will get something like vinyl players in near future |
| 22:11 |
RealBadAngel |
atm i can code just geometry things |
| 22:11 |
Calinou |
desktop PCs have never been so good… |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
what's wrong with vinyl? ;) |
| 22:12 |
RealBadAngel |
lens flare are also not possible Calinou |
| 22:12 |
sapier |
nothing VanessaE just almost everyone uses CD's or in between many ppl use streaming |
| 22:12 |
RealBadAngel |
we dont have rendering passes ;) |
| 22:12 |
Calinou |
RealBadAngel, they're just sprites that are aligned to player view |
| 22:12 |
Calinou |
Wolfenstein 3D had sprites that aligned to player view |
| 22:12 |
Calinou |
how is this not possible? |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
sapier: true |
| 22:12 |
RealBadAngel |
aw, cmon, do sprites with shaders? |
| 22:12 |
Fixer |
sapier, PC is needed for business and gamers, and that is big (but you don't need to upgrate that often anymore) :} |
| 22:13 |
Calinou |
lens flares don't need shaders |
| 22:13 |
RealBadAngel |
but can be done easliy with post process ones |
| 22:13 |
sapier |
PC ain't even for business it's for sw-engeneers |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: maybe but better to let the GPU handle that |
| 22:13 |
|
est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
minetest already stresses the CPU enough as it is |
| 22:13 |
Fixer |
leave the CPU alone :} |
| 22:13 |
est31 |
PC is needed by anybody who wants to do serious communication with machines |
| 22:14 |
Fixer |
to do serious work |
| 22:14 |
RealBadAngel |
so, who actually tried the water with filters on and off? |
| 22:14 |
sapier |
I don't think any designer or office user will use a pc in near future they'll switch to some sort of terminal ... back to the past ;-) |
| 22:14 |
est31 |
or serious work |
| 22:14 |
Fixer |
not just laying in bed and whatever |
| 22:14 |
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| 22:14 |
Calinou |
also, laptops are real PCs |
| 22:14 |
est31 |
well yeah probably many offices will have these remote desktop thingies |
| 22:14 |
VanessaE |
sapier: better that, than trying to do serious work on a tab |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
lots of people can work just fine with laptops, but they can't with tablets |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
Surface Pro is too small for lots of people :) |
| 22:14 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 22:14 |
Fixer |
Calinou, just mobile one's and craaaaaaaaapy |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
and also too expensive |
| 22:15 |
RealBadAngel |
atm, all of you are just waiting for animation screenies or commenting the code |
| 22:15 |
est31 |
tbh, I can't really use mobile only either |
| 22:15 |
RealBadAngel |
without even trying it out |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
also 1366*768 |
| 22:15 |
Calinou |
Fixer, my laptop is 1920×1080 :p |
| 22:15 |
* est31 |
needs a physical mouse |
| 22:15 |
Calinou |
any decent laptop is |
| 22:15 |
est31 |
touchpads are too slow |
| 22:15 |
Calinou |
I would have went for 2560×1440 if possible |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
Calinou, walk in a store -> 95% is 1366*768 shit |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
sorry, i mean 95% of notebooks are shit |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
but that's offtopic, sorry |
| 22:16 |
Calinou |
>implying anyone should buy laptops from a physical store |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: not entirely offtopic |
| 22:16 |
* Fixer |
is silent |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
notebooks have good hardware, but like any mobile device, they suffer on the GPU end. |
| 22:16 |
est31 |
Calinou, sometimes when I buy sth from a physical store its not much more expensive than stuff bought from the internet |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
yeah, mobile GPUs are still very slow even on high-end laptops :( |
| 22:17 |
Fixer |
est31, of course it is |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
my GTX 960M is much slower than my GTX 570 |
| 22:17 |
est31 |
and I am willing to pay 10% or so so that I have service without having to go to dhl for every little shit |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
…a graphics card from late 2010 |
| 22:17 |
est31 |
sending packages costs money too |
| 22:17 |
Fixer |
est31, depends if the internet store is legal or in grey areas :} |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
est31, in France you probably have more service on the Internet than in physical stores… for instance, "retractation" which allows you to get a refund in 14 days without having to justify why |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
this is possible only when buying over the Internet |
| 22:18 |
est31 |
yeah in germany too nobody is forced to do this |
| 22:18 |
est31 |
but many shops do it |
| 22:18 |
est31 |
its not such a bad deal for them |
| 22:18 |
est31 |
after all, they get free money |
| 22:18 |
est31 |
(for a time) |
| 22:19 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody trying it or shall i close that pull, and stop complaining why i did something? |
| 22:19 |
est31 |
so instead of having to go to the bank and lending it, they have the 14 day refunds |
| 22:19 |
* VanessaE |
fumes |
| 22:19 |
est31 |
VanessaE, too much offtopic? |
| 22:19 |
* est31 |
sorry |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
est31: too much RealBadAngel being butthurt :) |
| 22:19 |
Fixer |
now that tablet sales are decelerating, people will moan about "post-tablet era" and invent a new mantra |
| 22:20 |
RealBadAngel |
you have 15 minutes, if i dont any feedback i will just delete that code |
| 22:20 |
RealBadAngel |
*get |
| 22:20 |
sapier |
actually I believe future will be something like a docking station where you put your phone in when you're home and if you need more cpu power then your phone has you can buy it from cloud ... I don't like this kind of futuer but imho it's gonna happen |
| 22:20 |
Fixer |
main goal is to force you buying and buying or they will be out of business obviously |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
things don't change as fast as one would hope, sapier |
| 22:20 |
est31 |
yeah, something like sapier said will happen |
| 22:21 |
est31 |
I already now have a dismantled desktop pc at home |
| 22:21 |
est31 |
and sometimes I do a git bisect or stuff and I really could use some cpu build power |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
Canonical did make a concept where you could plug your phone to a desktop screen, and use it like a PC |
| 22:21 |
Fixer |
"unix" terminal days? what a joke :} |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
this would be valid if phones were actually powerful… but they're not :) |
| 22:21 |
RealBadAngel |
clearly, i dont have to wait, deleting the shader PRs now |
| 22:21 |
Fixer |
history repeats itself |
| 22:21 |
* VanessaE |
clones them all, just in case. |
| 22:22 |
Calinou |
PC won't die because for some people, i7-5960X and 64 GB of RAM is not enough :> |
| 22:22 |
Fixer |
tablet is not enough |
| 22:22 |
Fixer |
and notebook too |
| 22:22 |
est31 |
tablet is little toy for kids |
| 22:23 |
est31 |
I've thought I buy a tablet for taking uni notes, but there still is too much lag, it cant be compared to real paper |
| 22:23 |
sapier |
Calinou: what's an i7-5960x compared to x-hundred-thousand cores in cloud? |
| 22:23 |
est31 |
I even see that lag in their fscking commercials, even if they do their best to hide it |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
something that's not bandwidth-constrained |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
it'll take a long time before everyone has 4G and/or optic fiber |
| 22:23 |
Fixer |
it is just matured market, people don't want to upgrade anymore and practically everyone has a computer or whatever |
| 22:24 |
est31 |
but well, as tablets are toys, they are the best hardware to run minetest on |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
Fixer, my dad has 2009 iMac and Pentium D PC |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
I concur :p |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
slow as hell, but still uses it |
| 22:24 |
Fixer |
that developers tried hard to eat a lot of memory and disk space... but well -ck them |
| 22:24 |
sapier |
a tablet is a screen, imho it could replace my second monitor I usually use for reading docs without any problem if it wasn't hat ugly to get the data there |
| 22:24 |
Fixer |
Calinou, that is not even old |
| 22:24 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: stop being so damned butthurt and COMPROMISE |
| 22:24 |
Fixer |
Calinou, any >2000 with at least 2Gb is usable |
| 22:24 |
RealBadAngel |
i am being HURT because nobody tries to SEE what ive done |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
not really if you want to use recent Windows, or even anything more than Lubuntu |
| 22:25 |
Fixer |
Calinou, it is not like in 80s and 90s |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
if I were to build a desktop PC for my parents I'd put 8 GB of RAM in, and a Core i3 |
| 22:25 |
RealBadAngel |
reading the code you can stick in the ass when you havet seen it in action |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
+ SSD |
| 22:25 |
Fixer |
RealBadAngel, any compiled windows binaries? |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
Celeron/HDD/4 GB is sure possible, but won't feel nearly as good |
| 22:25 |
Fixer |
Calinou, i already have that :} need to buy SSD though |
| 22:25 |
sapier |
a lightweight tablet in a4 or letter format with induction loading support ... nice to have, sadly this ain't produced by anyone by now |
| 22:25 |
RealBadAngel |
all of you are not playing, not trying the pulls |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
which is why a few people prefer tablets nowadays… |
| 22:25 |
RealBadAngel |
just commenting whites :P |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
RealBadAngel, i play, but git version |
| 22:26 |
RealBadAngel |
im talking bout devs |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
i have not setup my building env |
| 22:26 |
Calinou |
I play CTF daily or so :p |
| 22:26 |
RealBadAngel |
all of them are just github readers |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
i have XP in VM, need to install compilers and stuff |
| 22:27 |
sapier |
ok rba I've built your new_shaders version where to see the new shaders? |
| 22:27 |
RealBadAngel |
ive spent months to make water shaders perfect, and nobody is even want to try them out |
| 22:27 |
est31 |
one has to download the shaders as well I think |
| 22:27 |
RealBadAngel |
and i shouldnt be in that case pissed off? |
| 22:27 |
* est31 |
tries the new mapgen pr then I try yours RBA |
| 22:27 |
sapier |
<< RealBadAngel wanting to try tell me how! ;-) |
| 22:28 |
est31 |
I've looked at the lava shaders in the past, but your water stuff was WIP so I didn't check it out |
| 22:28 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, ive pasted you link with HOW-TO two times today already |
| 22:29 |
RealBadAngel |
and you all keep commenting why i forced filtering on made possible |
| 22:29 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, take a look why |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
why do we need water/lava shaders? aren't animated textures enough? |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
unless you bring reflection/refraction to the table, I'm not convinced |
| 22:30 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, idk, because some would want NICE water? |
| 22:30 |
RealBadAngel |
talking bout reflections.... |
| 22:30 |
RealBadAngel |
that will be also not possible without that PR |
| 22:30 |
Calinou |
I find the water texture and color pretty decent |
| 22:30 |
Calinou |
the post effect is nice now, although fog would be even better |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
intersting ... but not really like water |
| 22:30 |
RealBadAngel |
and special texures |
| 22:31 |
sapier |
reminds me more about fog ... very very dense fog |
| 22:31 |
RealBadAngel |
color is exactly the same as for the original texture |
| 22:31 |
RealBadAngel |
in fact color is used here instead of reflection texture |
| 22:31 |
RealBadAngel |
so atm its fixed |
| 22:32 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, it wont be possible at all |
| 22:33 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean with changes to the shaders and later on rendering system |
| 22:33 |
sapier |
the water shader would be great if used as cloud shader |
| 22:33 |
RealBadAngel |
same as relief mapping wasnt possible without tangent space |
| 22:34 |
RealBadAngel |
so highly hated change, especially by hmmmm |
| 22:34 |
VanessaE |
no one hates it |
| 22:34 |
VanessaE |
they hate your intent to force the client to filter it. |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
where it == the proposed liquid shaders. |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
that's all. |
| 22:35 |
RealBadAngel |
i had same fights when i was forceing tangent space vertices |
| 22:35 |
sapier |
we like it just ignoring user settings isn't what we like ... no matter how good the result for some systems may be |
| 22:35 |
RealBadAngel |
because you all have saw no usage for it |
| 22:35 |
RealBadAngel |
now you can compare it |
| 22:35 |
RealBadAngel |
so, who tried? |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
nobody? |
| 22:36 |
sapier |
no it's not about it's usage it's about a setting called "no shaders/filtering" no means no and not "no but..." |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
this is not a setting |
| 22:36 |
sapier |
I just tried your new_shaders branch according to the howto you wrote ... thought that was clear from my comments |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
ok |
| 22:37 |
RealBadAngel |
have you saw water with and without filters? |
| 22:37 |
sapier |
don't know |
| 22:37 |
RealBadAngel |
edit the mod |
| 22:37 |
sapier |
yes filtering is disabled |
| 22:37 |
RealBadAngel |
and change filter to false |
| 22:37 |
sapier |
ok |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
menu options do not apply for that node |
| 22:38 |
VanessaE |
sapier: take a video of the result please :) |
| 22:38 |
sapier |
hmm |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
leave menu filtering disabled, and change only mod setting |
| 22:38 |
sapier |
imho the water does even look better without filtering ... *sorry* |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
awwwww |
| 22:39 |
RealBadAngel |
take a closer look |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: I told you. |
| 22:39 |
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| 22:39 |
sapier |
I do, I like the pixel style way better then the filtered one which doesn't look like water ... pixels look almost like little waves |
| 22:40 |
RealBadAngel |
pixels chasing each other, of different size you dare to call nicer than smooth waves?!? |
| 22:40 |
sapier |
yes because the "smooth" water doesn't look like water to me ... it's tooo smooth |
| 22:40 |
RealBadAngel |
ok i give up |
| 22:40 |
RealBadAngel |
i must be blind, crazy or something |
| 22:41 |
sapier |
if you have a look at the sea you you usually see small breaking waves |
| 22:41 |
sapier |
the smoothed version does look more like crawling fog |
| 22:41 |
sapier |
of course that's not an objective interpretation |
| 22:41 |
RealBadAngel |
the size of it is to be decided |
| 22:42 |
RealBadAngel |
please do note that effective repetitions of made "texture" are not of a node size |
| 22:42 |
RealBadAngel |
its more like 8x8 |
| 22:42 |
Fixer |
post the screenshots! |
| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/m37D035.png |
| 22:44 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc you want see flow of the water on the screenie |
| 22:45 |
Fixer |
RealBadAngel, what are those triangles? |
| 22:45 |
Fixer |
on right side |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
sides of liquid nodes |
| 22:46 |
RealBadAngel |
same as before, thats water drawtype designed propably by c55 |
| 22:46 |
RealBadAngel |
whole the water on the right side of the screen is flowing one |
| 22:46 |
RealBadAngel |
to the left you have a sea |
| 22:47 |
RealBadAngel |
with shaders, it is blending quite nicely |
| 22:47 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: still this shader doesn't look like water to me :-/ ... and does reset after some seconds/minutes causing a jump |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
sapier: isn't that a known bug in shaders in general? |
| 22:48 |
sapier |
I don't know I usually don't use shaders |
| 22:48 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, that jump is some animationTimer glitch, to be observed everywhere |
| 22:48 |
RealBadAngel |
havent found the reason for it yet |
| 22:48 |
sapier |
Just wanted to mention as noone could fix it if it was related to the shader |
| 22:48 |
sapier |
http://imgur.com/a/fBdpZ not sure if imgur didn't compress the images too much |
| 22:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i need to fix it, because many things depend on that timer |
| 22:49 |
RealBadAngel |
idk why it jumps |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
sapier: wait, which one's not filtered? |
| 22:49 |
sapier |
lower ones seem to be unfiltered |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
wait I think I see it |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
if THAT is what un-filtered looks like? to hell with filters. |
| 22:49 |
sapier |
but you can see the pixels way more if it's not compressed |
| 22:50 |
VanessaE |
how does the animation compare? |
| 22:50 |
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| 22:50 |
RealBadAngel |
better see lava unfiltered: http://i.imgur.com/Q1zDYLr.png |
| 22:50 |
sapier |
I didn't notice any difference except of pixels on the edges |
| 22:50 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/FKANK9x.png |
| 22:50 |
RealBadAngel |
and compare |
| 22:50 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: I see nothing particularly wrong with it unfiltered. reminds me of low-quality jpeg :P |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
it obviously looks way better with filtering |
| 22:51 |
sapier |
if I had to choose what to fix pixels or strange waves I'd decide to want the waves fixed |
| 22:51 |
RealBadAngel |
here effect is more visible, because it is using 16px as a color map too |
| 22:52 |
sapier |
those just aren't water waves |
| 22:52 |
RealBadAngel |
but those lava shaders pictures are outdated |
| 22:52 |
sapier |
looks like what see in timelapse videos of the upper side of clouds |
| 22:53 |
RealBadAngel |
this was before i started to use proper heightmaps and relief mapping for lava |
| 22:53 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/q3dArah.png |
| 22:53 |
sapier |
where to get that shader? |
| 22:53 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/lava_surface_shaders |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a shader to be put into /client/shaders |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/shaded_lava |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
and thats a mod using it |
| 22:55 |
RealBadAngel |
please do note that in case of lava shader theres no fallback to default lava as it is with water one |
| 22:56 |
RealBadAngel |
so just test it with shaders only |
| 22:56 |
sapier |
where to get default.LIGHT_MAX from? |
| 22:56 |
RealBadAngel |
its defined in default? |
| 22:57 |
sapier |
guess minimal ain't enough? |
| 22:57 |
RealBadAngel |
this mod is meant to override default lava def |
| 22:57 |
RealBadAngel |
so most of it is just a copy from there |
| 22:57 |
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| 22:58 |
sapier |
just say "yes" |
| 23:00 |
sapier |
doesn't look like your screenshot |
| 23:02 |
RealBadAngel |
can yoo make one? |
| 23:03 |
sapier |
http://imgur.com/btxu4fK quite static doesn't look like the shader works at all |
| 23:04 |
RealBadAngel |
check shader folder |
| 23:04 |
sapier |
theres two files in lava_surface_shaders |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
no extra folder? |
| 23:06 |
sapier |
there was but it didn't work with subfolder lava_surface_shaders too |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
there should be /client/shaders/lava_surface_shader/ those files |
| 23:06 |
sapier |
yes the files are in this folder |
| 23:07 |
RealBadAngel |
you said "lava_surface_shaders" |
| 23:07 |
RealBadAngel |
it should be "lava_surface_shader" |
| 23:07 |
RealBadAngel |
as defined in mod |
| 23:07 |
sapier |
ohhhh |
| 23:07 |
sapier |
s |
| 23:09 |
RealBadAngel |
any better? |
| 23:10 |
sapier |
way better |
| 23:10 |
* sofar |
& jetlag |
| 23:10 |
sapier |
but still way of what I see on your screenshot |
| 23:11 |
RealBadAngel |
please make the screenie again |
| 23:11 |
sapier |
I see node limits for example and flow is way less detailed |
| 23:11 |
RealBadAngel |
flow is not fixed in this shader yet |
| 23:12 |
RealBadAngel |
ive focused there rather on flat surface |
| 23:12 |
RealBadAngel |
well, rather on makin the flat one not such flat ;) |
| 23:12 |
sapier |
I'm talking about the wave flow not flowing lava |
| 23:13 |
sapier |
http://imgur.com/SiFwZg4 |
| 23:14 |
VanessaE |
borders between nodes. |
| 23:14 |
RealBadAngel |
i may be having different code there, this repo was not really meant to be public yet |
| 23:14 |
sapier |
yes I didn't see those borders on water shaders |
| 23:15 |
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| 23:15 |
RealBadAngel |
this one is quite different |
| 23:15 |
RealBadAngel |
with lava one i am using actual texures and the heightmaps |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
without the borders I'd quite like it for standing lava ... for flowing it's strange ;-) |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
I don't see any height differences |
| 23:16 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on a minute, i will get the right shader code |
| 23:17 |
sapier |
you should really fix the timer issue it's making me crazy ;-) |
| 23:18 |
sapier |
imho it's a blocker for shaders like this one |
| 23:19 |
sapier |
it's unacceptable whole image is reset every now and then ;-) |
| 23:20 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, ive got the code |
| 23:20 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastie.org/10648149 |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
replace whole fragment shader with it |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
make a flat lava surface and fly around lookin at it |
| 23:23 |
RealBadAngel |
need to fine tune it, but its already nice |
| 23:23 |
RealBadAngel |
and yes, i definitely need to hunt down that timer thing |
| 23:24 |
RealBadAngel |
its propably been wrong since the very begining |
| 23:26 |
sapier |
I still have borders |
| 23:27 |
RealBadAngel |
yeah, but you shall be able to see heights |
| 23:27 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent polished that shader because of PR hanging there |
| 23:27 |
RealBadAngel |
without the PR this shader cant work at all |
| 23:28 |
sapier |
nope, but i disabled waving does this have any effect on it? |
| 23:28 |
RealBadAngel |
no it doesnt wave |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
with detailed surfaces waving is kinda obsolete |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
at least imho |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
ah, and it does use old relief mapping |
| 23:30 |
RealBadAngel |
ive updated the code for it recently |
| 23:30 |
sapier |
ok for this shader the effect with filtering is better then without |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
much more visible degradation |
| 23:31 |
sapier |
yet imho this is quite subjective as said for the water shader I'd prefere the non filtered version |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
because in this case three textures are used |
| 23:32 |
sapier |
I don't think so imho it's because of water flow is way more fine then what I'd expect from lava |
| 23:32 |
RealBadAngel |
do note thats up to mod to decide on it |
| 23:32 |
sapier |
so the pixels make lava look unnatural while on watter the look likesome substructure |
| 23:33 |
RealBadAngel |
in water shader ive implemented math based on normals/binormals |
| 23:33 |
RealBadAngel |
its not done in lava at all |
| 23:33 |
RealBadAngel |
the lava shader is just hanging out there not finished |
| 23:34 |
RealBadAngel |
just no point to develop it any furher when engine doesnt allow it |
| 23:35 |
sapier |
still imho the lava shader looks way better then the water shader atm |
| 23:35 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, thats a bit of taste, dont you think so? |
| 23:36 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean those pixelated structures |
| 23:36 |
sapier |
sorry I know that's not what you wanna hear |
| 23:36 |
RealBadAngel |
im highly after it being smooth |
| 23:36 |
sapier |
those maybe but I'd suggest asking ppl about the water shader |
| 23:36 |
sapier |
for me this one would be a reason to disable shaders |
| 23:36 |
sapier |
it's just strange |
| 23:36 |
kaadmy_mobile |
what's the shader do? |
| 23:36 |
RealBadAngel |
imagine reflection on this surface |
| 23:37 |
RealBadAngel |
and that day will come |
| 23:37 |
sapier |
makes water look like cloud surface |
| 23:37 |
kaadmy_mobile |
water reflections like in terasology? |
| 23:37 |
RealBadAngel |
like in ANY other modern game |
| 23:37 |
sapier |
doesn't matter RealBadAngel water ain't that smooth |
| 23:37 |
kaadmy_mobile |
then i like it until i can prove otherwise ;) |
| 23:37 |
RealBadAngel |
including minecraft and terasology and build a world or name any other voxel game |
| 23:38 |
kaadmy_mobile |
xonotic and assaultcube has it |
| 23:38 |
sapier |
http://weknowyourdreams.com/image.php?pic=/images/sea/sea-03.jpg |
| 23:38 |
sapier |
http://weknowyourdreams.com/image.php?pic=/images/sea/sea-08.jpg |
| 23:38 |
kaadmy_mobile |
even assaultcube has it... |
| 23:38 |
sapier |
there aren't round waves |
| 23:38 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, the water shader code is based on one guys work |
| 23:38 |
sapier |
I know RealBadAngel and you're really doing great work |
| 23:39 |
RealBadAngel |
do you really wanna see how will the shader look like complere? |
| 23:39 |
RealBadAngel |
*complete? |
| 23:39 |
sapier |
it'd be great yes |
| 23:39 |
kaadmy_mobile |
any screenshots of the shader in action? |
| 23:39 |
RealBadAngel |
theres just reflection missing |
| 23:39 |
RealBadAngel |
other code is the same (except for some my own changes) |
| 23:39 |
kaadmy_mobile |
imo caustics would also be big graphical improvement |
| 23:40 |
VanessaE |
caustics? |
| 23:40 |
sapier |
ok then I'l wait for it, I'm just hoping you're not walking the wrong path spending too much time on it RealBadAngel it'd make me quite sad |
| 23:40 |
kaadmy_mobile |
look at tesseract's trailer |
| 23:40 |
RealBadAngel |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkdBGe8tfNw |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
look at this final effect |
| 23:42 |
RealBadAngel |
and try to say its not worth havin it |
| 23:42 |
VanessaE |
can't say I expect MT to have shaders THAT good any time soon. |
| 23:43 |
sapier |
hard to tell he's moving around quite quickly ;) oso you can't relly tell |
| 23:43 |
sapier |
but for what I see it impressive |
| 23:43 |
sapier |
and a long way to go |
| 23:43 |
kaadmy_mobile |
love that effect ;) |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
i just need further engine changes |
| 23:46 |
kaadmy_mobile |
go to around 3:50 in this vid http://youtube.com/watch?v=3fOpHRrOBJQ |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
whats most funny, i do have reflection code for irrlicht rdy, found some sources that do that |
| 23:47 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, https://github.com/RealBadAngel/terrainTest |
| 23:47 |
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| 23:48 |
RealBadAngel |
this app have user defined shader materials, post processing and rendering phases |
| 23:48 |
sapier |
nice to know but it's late today I'll check it another day |
| 23:48 |
RealBadAngel |
it could be quite nice to get such changes |
| 23:49 |
sapier |
conclusion, lava shader is (except the borders) and of course the time bug amost production ready ... water (sad to tell) requires some additional work |
| 23:49 |
RealBadAngel |
water is here just as a proof of concept |
| 23:50 |
RealBadAngel |
main subject is a PR that allows all those things |
| 23:50 |
sapier |
considering this it's quite good true |
| 23:50 |
sapier |
but doesn't change the fact that it's not subject to a node to change the users graphics settings |
| 23:50 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont demand water to be a part of minetest_game |
| 23:51 |
RealBadAngel |
but games with HD gfx, may want it as is |
| 23:51 |
sapier |
still if you do sett graphics quality to "low" you expect it too look bad thus why should some node change this on it's own |
| 23:52 |
sapier |
if ppl enable shaders because they make the game look so much better we will set it to default by some time |
| 23:52 |
RealBadAngel |
atm im pretty confused |
| 23:53 |
sapier |
well there are a lot of unconnected ends in minetest graphics |
| 23:53 |
kaadmy_mobile |
imo the parallax mapping really doesn't fit in MT |
| 23:53 |
sapier |
none of it as single part do make sense |
| 23:53 |
sapier |
e.g. perfect shaders make lot of other parts look even worse |
| 23:53 |
RealBadAngel |
kaadmy_mobile, parallax mapping is kinda obsolete now |
| 23:54 |
RealBadAngel |
we are using relief mapping |
| 23:54 |
kaadmy_mobile |
i know, i don't use it |
| 23:54 |
sapier |
you can't push one part of the game to ultra high quality while everything else looks like prototype compared to it |
| 23:54 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/HePeu7h.png |
| 23:55 |
RealBadAngel |
(this is what im working on atm) |
| 23:55 |
sapier |
this is a good example .... it's a nice effect really ... but I wouldn't wanna play that way for long |
| 23:55 |
kaadmy_mobile |
that's what i mean it looks bad |
| 23:56 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a matter of taste |
| 23:56 |
sapier |
exactly this is quite special |
| 23:56 |
kaadmy_mobile |
the relief/parallax/offset mapping doesn't work too well with low resolution textures |
| 23:56 |
RealBadAngel |
this is example of built in versy simple effect |
| 23:56 |
sapier |
I guess there are ppl out there relly loving that style |
| 23:56 |
RealBadAngel |
and a single normal map |
| 23:56 |
RealBadAngel |
for everything |
| 23:57 |
RealBadAngel |
so it means this effect is very cheap |
| 23:57 |
kaadmy_mobile |
normal mapping would look good if there were real time lights |
| 23:57 |
RealBadAngel |
we dont have them yet |
| 23:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and normal mapping is not only about lights |
| 23:58 |
RealBadAngel |
so the relief |
| 23:58 |
sapier |
why are we always discussing the big things instead of fixing the small ones really doing harm ? :-) |
| 23:58 |
RealBadAngel |
its about to make things not flat |
| 23:58 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, please consider that my changes are continous mostly |
| 23:59 |
RealBadAngel |
i cant make new things with previous commits |
| 23:59 |
sapier |
Minetest reminds me of a big prototype ... we always have cool new features in there but noone ever wants do do the polishing ;-) |
| 23:59 |
RealBadAngel |
all the time im developing the same thing, the LOOK |
| 23:59 |
kaadmy_mobile |
yep |
| 23:59 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, i do the polishing, to the look |
| 23:59 |
RealBadAngel |
this is what i can do the best |
