| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
in any case I'm looking for people to do a second look at that specific chunk |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
working with the code made me understand all of the changes and the rationale for them a lot more than just looking at the diff in a web browser |
| 00:13 |
hmmmm |
but still I might've missed something |
| 00:16 |
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| 00:48 |
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| 01:01 |
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| 02:43 |
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| 02:45 |
paramat |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3248 "ABMs: Make catch-up behaviour optional" by paramat, is tested and ready for review if anyone is able to |
| 03:40 |
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| 03:42 |
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| 05:47 |
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| 06:08 |
OldCoder |
date time ERROR[main}: Client::handleCommand_ActiveObjectMessages: caught SerializationError:deSerializeString: couldnt read all chars |
| 06:09 |
OldCoder |
hmmmm, kahrl, sfan5 highlighting because the 3 of you might be awake and the person affected deserves help... |
| 06:09 |
hmmmm |
yes, it's a pretty standard error |
| 06:09 |
OldCoder |
and that is a known core issue. Can any of you comment on the nature of numerous messages of this type and what to do? |
| 06:09 |
OldCoder |
|
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
YOU can't do anything |
| 06:10 |
OldCoder |
Right. Is the cause known? |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
it's low priority because frankly it doesn't seem like it affects anybody outside of vanessae and it doesn't actually impact gameplay |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
no, it's not. |
| 06:10 |
OldCoder |
It is affecting me ATM. Apparently 100s of these. But if not known, not known. |
| 06:10 |
OldCoder |
Can I simply comment out the message? |
| 06:11 |
OldCoder |
The player affected, if it matters, is a 49 year old heart attack patient |
| 06:11 |
OldCoder |
This is his therapy |
| 06:11 |
hmmmm |
uhh... lol |
| 06:11 |
OldCoder |
lol to comment out? |
| 06:11 |
OldCoder |
Or therapy? MT is excellent for patients |
| 06:11 |
OldCoder |
Socialization, creative outlet, pleasant hobby |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
anyway if you're getting these errors frequently enough that it's actually causing an impact on gameplay then we should talk |
| 06:12 |
OldCoder |
O.K. I will restart. What type of logging could I patch into the core if the problem resumes? |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
on vanessae's server this only happened in momentary spurts around very specific areas for a short amount of time |
| 06:12 |
OldCoder |
Happy to add printf |
| 06:12 |
OldCoder |
Useful info |
| 06:12 |
OldCoder |
Specific areas? |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
oh no, you don't want to do that |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
I tried that already |
| 06:12 |
OldCoder |
printfs affect the problem? |
| 06:13 |
hmmmm |
the printfs I'd like to add would effectively freeze your server |
| 06:13 |
OldCoder |
They are quite volume oriented? |
| 06:13 |
OldCoder |
1M's ? |
| 06:13 |
OldCoder |
Heh |
| 06:13 |
OldCoder |
MY server is pretty fast |
| 06:13 |
OldCoder |
Does that help? |
| 06:13 |
hmmmm |
if this is as easily replicatable as you make it sound then I would just comment out that log message for now |
| 06:13 |
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| 06:13 |
hmmmm |
i'm sorta busy atm but i would like to solve it as it has been an ongoing problem since 0.4.10 |
| 06:14 |
OldCoder |
I must find out if it is replicable. It may be specific area. I will report back in 2 days if the problem continues |
| 06:14 |
OldCoder |
Is this satisfactory? |
| 06:14 |
hmmmm |
OK. |
| 06:14 |
OldCoder |
I will restart and ask player to note patterns. We will then see if random or replicable. |
| 06:14 |
OldCoder |
Thank you. |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
I tried capturing this error on vanessae's server before |
| 06:16 |
hmmmm |
because of the sheer volume of data it was near impossible to find anything of significance |
| 06:16 |
hmmmm |
one thing i did learn is how incredibly inefficient AOMs are |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
if you have a pipeworks mod enabled with many stacks of nodes or items, it's possible your server could be slowing down to a halt because of all the constant movement messages being sent |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
slowing to a crawl* rather |
| 06:18 |
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| 06:18 |
OldCoder |
Yes |
| 06:18 |
OldCoder |
It's pipeworks, is it? hmmmm But thought I saw it on a regular world. |
| 06:19 |
hmmmm |
unlikely |
| 06:19 |
OldCoder |
I've turned off half of pipeworks on that world |
| 06:19 |
OldCoder |
Ah |
| 06:19 |
hmmmm |
it's always possible though, but high volume seems to perturb the condition |
| 06:23 |
hmmmm |
ShadowNinja: I'm about to push these three commits to upstream/master: https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commits/sncleanup |
| 06:23 |
hmmmm |
more to come soon |
| 06:23 |
OldCoder |
hmmmm, I'll be asleep in moments, but player reports issue is continuous and returns after restart. It is just his area. |
| 06:24 |
hmmmm |
yea, I'm not going to be able to get to this tonight at all. |
| 06:24 |
OldCoder |
Conditions may be ideal to debug the problem |
| 06:24 |
hmmmm |
sorry. |
| 06:24 |
OldCoder |
No sorry, just reporting |
| 06:24 |
OldCoder |
Busy for a day or two myself. Noting that conditions may be ideal to debug the problem. |
| 06:24 |
OldCoder |
Will comment in a day or two |
| 06:24 |
OldCoder |
Zzz |
| 06:24 |
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| 06:26 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: Weren't you going to make the none->always change? |
| 06:26 |
hmmmm |
yeah that can come later |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
I think I already messed with your commit enough as-is |
| 07:05 |
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| 07:17 |
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| 07:28 |
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| 07:29 |
est31 |
note that parts of the inefficiency comes from the way SAOs get used in pipeworks |
| 07:29 |
est31 |
way too much, even used if nobody is there |
| 07:29 |
est31 |
and the other part comes from how the server handles it |
| 07:30 |
est31 |
AFAIK VE's servers are set up to transmit SAO messages to the whole server |
| 07:30 |
est31 |
even if the player is at the other end of the world |
| 07:30 |
est31 |
but I might be wrong with this |
| 07:32 |
est31 |
so I dont think the problem is the protocol, its more the implementation |
| 07:32 |
est31 |
but great work you did hmmmm btw on the logging pr |
| 07:33 |
est31 |
finally it got merged |
| 07:35 |
nrzkt2 |
est31: yes messages are transmitter to the whole server, like detached inventories in unified inventory, 3d_armor and more... evenif the inventory affect only 1 user |
| 07:37 |
hmmmm |
oh it's not done yet |
| 07:37 |
hmmmm |
there are literally 5 more commits to go, but these are barely related to logging at all |
| 07:49 |
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| 07:52 |
est31 |
hrmmm why is this code even there the first place |
| 07:52 |
est31 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3248/files#diff-baa4d2d0ffafdec2b86baf065fba252bR587 |
| 07:53 |
hmmmm |
so it doesn't divide by zero the line below it |
| 07:54 |
hmmmm |
or at least that's the rationale |
| 07:54 |
est31 |
oh, thats an argument |
| 07:54 |
est31 |
perhaps it should be commented |
| 07:54 |
hmmmm |
in floating point math, that wouldn't cause an exception, the result would just be infinite |
| 07:54 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 07:55 |
hmmmm |
the person who wrote this either forgot to remove that when it was changed to a float from an int or didn't understand floating point math |
| 07:55 |
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| 07:55 |
est31 |
my initial thought was that intervals is an int, and you jump if the actual_interval is smaller than trigger_interval |
| 07:55 |
est31 |
but then i saw "float" |
| 07:55 |
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| 07:57 |
est31 |
the general problem I have with the PR is that instead of fixing a problematic feature we just offer a way to disable it |
| 07:57 |
est31 |
it should be made real catch up |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
I don't have a problem with it |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
notice how it says "simple" catch up |
| 07:58 |
hmmmm |
the implication being that there will be a more advanced version in the future |
| 07:58 |
est31 |
this is the lua api |
| 07:59 |
est31 |
we have to support it for a long time |
| 07:59 |
est31 |
and not remove stuff without a good reason |
| 07:59 |
hmmmm |
then maybe catchup should be an enumeration instead of a boolean? |
| 08:00 |
est31 |
there is no real fast way to do enums in lua |
| 08:00 |
hmmmm |
catchup = "none", "simple", "complete", etc. |
| 08:00 |
est31 |
thats good old slow strings |
| 08:00 |
hmmmm |
"catchup", "mustard", "mayonaise" |
| 08:00 |
est31 |
heh |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:01 |
hmmmm |
I hate it too trust me |
| 08:01 |
est31 |
well, its time spent during registering |
| 08:01 |
hmmmm |
at one point I was going to replace all the flags and enums with constants defined in a builtin file |
| 08:01 |
est31 |
it can be converted to enum on c++ side |
| 08:01 |
est31 |
during parsing |
| 08:01 |
hmmmm |
it is |
| 08:01 |
hmmmm |
that's how literally all other lua enumerations work :) |
| 08:01 |
hmmmm |
getenumfield() |
| 08:04 |
est31 |
so yeah i like the enum idea |
| 08:04 |
est31 |
generally I think there should be several different kinds of ABMs |
| 08:04 |
est31 |
ones which get called upon world load |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
and only then |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
they would be good for replacing etc |
| 08:05 |
est31 |
then ones which get called on newly placed blocks |
| 08:06 |
est31 |
and those which get called regularly like we have now |
| 08:06 |
est31 |
for the newly placed blocks we can have the lavacooling abm |
| 08:06 |
est31 |
(newly placed around) |
| 08:07 |
est31 |
but that use case is done much better once abms implement what I propose in #3003 |
| 08:08 |
ShadowBot |
est31: Error: Delimiter not found in "An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information." |
| 08:08 |
est31 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3003 |
| 08:08 |
est31 |
"Do leafdecay scanning in the engine" |
| 08:09 |
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| 08:11 |
est31 |
man, this sat around for 2 months now |
| 08:11 |
est31 |
and I havent even started |
| 08:12 |
* est31 |
lazy |
| 08:14 |
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| 08:18 |
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| 08:26 |
est31 |
hrmm, any ideas, I want to rephrase the channel description of #minetest-dev on http://dev.minetest.net/IRC |
| 08:27 |
est31 |
so that it includes something like "Development discussion of the core projects like Engine or Minetest Game" |
| 08:27 |
est31 |
but that's too long |
| 08:28 |
est31 |
(bc its not just about engine here, paramat always announces his game prs here for example) |
| 08:28 |
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| 08:28 |
nrzkt2 |
remove like and tell Minetest team projects |
| 08:35 |
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| 09:22 |
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| 09:26 |
celeron55 |
i guess there should be an easy option to just turn off the visible error log on the client |
| 09:26 |
celeron55 |
i mean, most users can't do anything about errors anyway and they still want to see the chat |
| 09:27 |
celeron55 |
(sometimes it just becomes unnecessarily difficult to debug a non-fatal error in a reasonaable amount of time) |
| 09:35 |
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| 13:25 |
est31 |
agree celeron55. |
| 13:25 |
est31 |
Those who get the errors can't really do anything with them. Other applications usually have error reporting for this / metrics etc |
| 13:26 |
nrzkt2 |
+1 |
| 13:26 |
est31 |
(i dont know whether thats a good idea for us however, I'm neutral here) |
| 13:29 |
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| 13:33 |
waressearcher2 |
if someone takes source code of minetest and rewrites it in C, can it be considered a fork and it have to be also under same license or it would be a completely different source code and minetest's license do not apply anymore ? |
| 13:33 |
VanessaE |
the license still applies. |
| 13:34 |
waressearcher2 |
if its rewritten in any language the license is still applies ? why is it applies because what exactly is the same ? algorithms or variable names ? |
| 13:35 |
VanessaE |
because you'd have started with the original source code, and being C++, I'm sure some of it would still work. |
| 13:35 |
VanessaE |
now were you to read the sources and describe their operation to someone else who has never seen the source, and that person rewrites it, then it wouldn't be a fork |
| 13:36 |
VanessaE |
"clean room implementation" |
| 13:36 |
VanessaE |
works for closed-source software too in some cases. |
| 13:36 |
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| 13:36 |
waressearcher2 |
what if persone never seen the source but only bunch of videos of gameplay and he write the clone that looks and feel exactly as in video, is that a "clean room implementation" ? |
| 13:36 |
rubenwardy |
It does depend on what you mean by rewrite |
| 13:37 |
rubenwardy |
also, this isn't dev-like chatter |
| 13:38 |
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| 13:41 |
VanessaE |
waressearcher2: yes, as long as the person writing the code has never seen the original sources |
| 13:41 |
VanessaE |
why do you ask, anyways? |
| 13:42 |
VanessaE |
ruben's right. --> #minetest |
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|
Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Last release: 0.4.13, Aug 20 2015. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/ |
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| 17:24 |
eugd |
can #3199 get merged? i need to reset my fork. |
| 17:24 |
ShadowBot |
eugd: Error: Delimiter not found in "An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information." |
| 17:25 |
eugd |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3199 |
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hmmmm |
I'm not sure what's holding it up |
| 19:57 |
hmmmm |
I'll take a look at that PR and do a quick re-review |
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