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| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
*sigh*: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9196&p=189201#p189200 |
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| 05:10 |
paramat |
hi hmmmm game#659 is a perhaps temporary fix for issue game#652 any comments? |
| 05:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/659 -- Default/trees: Add not-force-placed tree schematics grown from saplings by paramat |
| 05:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/652 -- Schematic tree trunks destroy existing nodes |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
ehh |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
just because somebody reports some behavior they don't like in a bug tracker does not mean it needs to be 'fixed' |
| 05:12 |
hmmmm |
trees always destroyed nodes when they grew from saplings |
| 05:12 |
paramat |
nah mgv6 ones don't |
| 05:12 |
hmmmm |
i think you should get more consensus before doing anything. |
| 05:13 |
hmmmm |
are you sure they don't? |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
maybe is_ground_content can get checked when replacing nodes if a certain option is set |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
or something like that, i don't know |
| 05:14 |
paramat |
yeah sure, they are lua routines designed to only replace air, ignore or leaves |
| 05:15 |
paramat |
however i'm fairly neutral because i don't run a server |
| 05:16 |
hmmmm |
add a schematic flag |
| 05:17 |
hmmmm |
SCHEM_PRESERVE_NONGROUND_CONTENT |
| 05:17 |
hmmmm |
or something like that |
| 05:17 |
hmmmm |
then in blitToVManip, if ((m_flags & SCHEM_PRESERVE_NONGROUND_CONTENT) && ndef->get(node_being_replaced).is_ground_content) continue; |
| 05:18 |
paramat |
ah good idea |
| 05:20 |
hmmmm |
i don't know, it's just a suggestion |
| 05:20 |
hmmmm |
if you want to go ahead with making a duplicate tree schematic then I guess that's fine too... but it strikes me as being kind of hacky |
| 05:21 |
paramat |
well ideally trunks need to replace leaves, but leaves not replace trunks, all without griefing |
| 05:21 |
paramat |
it's complex, i suggested as idea in the last comment in the issue |
| 05:21 |
paramat |
(an) |
| 05:22 |
paramat |
but not sure it's useful enough to add |
| 05:23 |
paramat |
and recreating tree schematics in lua is a pain |
| 05:23 |
paramat |
anyway will consider all this, thanks |
| 05:23 |
paramat |
for the moment the commit is a quick perhaps temporary fix |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
are things exploding without that patch? |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
server owners are a bit horrified due to griefing possibilities |
| 05:26 |
paramat |
i feel a bit guilty for not having considered this. VanessaE thoughts? |
| 05:26 |
hmmmm |
i would do the elegant solution first |
| 05:29 |
paramat |
problem is neither water or leaves are ground content, water needs to be replaced for rainforest swamps |
| 05:31 |
paramat |
otherwise cool idea. so yeah hacky but maybe temporary, i will probably merge |
| 05:44 |
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| 05:45 |
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| 05:46 |
neoascetic |
Wow, finally new minetest.net, it is awesome! |
| 05:50 |
paramat |
we should get some mgv7 screenshots up there :} |
| 05:52 |
Calinou |
working on the site |
| 05:54 |
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| 05:55 |
neoascetic |
btw why doesn't it hosted on github pages? I thought main problem with mediawiki is that we need someone to change the stuff. Now we still need a someone who will rebuild and re-push website when some PR applied |
| 05:56 |
neoascetic |
wouldn't it be better to have auto site rebuild ? |
| 05:56 |
Calinou |
it is hosted on GitHub pages, neoascetic |
| 05:56 |
Calinou |
when I commit something, it is built automatically |
| 05:57 |
paramat |
cool |
| 05:57 |
Calinou |
http://minetest.github.io redirects to http://minetest.net |
| 05:57 |
neoascetic |
Oh, yeah. Great. But it built by whom? |
| 05:58 |
Calinou |
me |
| 05:58 |
Calinou |
it was a website competition entry, which ultimately won |
| 05:59 |
neoascetic |
I think better way is let github pages built without need to do this by hands |
| 06:00 |
neoascetic |
If we still need styles/custom jekyll plugins, we may use jekyll for this |
| 06:00 |
neoascetic |
* may use travis for this |
| 06:02 |
Calinou |
we don't have to do anything by hand for it to be built |
| 06:02 |
Calinou |
we can build it locally on our PCs by using "jekyll serve" and connecting to http://localhost:4000/ |
| 06:02 |
Calinou |
this works even on Windows, provided you installed Ruby + DevKit (gem install jekyll) |
| 06:03 |
neoascetic |
1. install ruby 2. install npm 3. install jekyll and grunt |
| 06:04 |
neoascetic |
btw customize -> forum links are broken |
| 06:05 |
Calinou |
you can use "npm install" in folder to install packages locally, then run "grunt watch" :) |
| 06:05 |
Calinou |
I need to fix package.json to not throw any warnings too |
| 06:06 |
Calinou |
neoascetic, right, I'll fix them |
| 06:08 |
Calinou |
done |
| 06:17 |
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| 07:55 |
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| 07:55 |
est31 |
should we have merge commits for https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io ? |
| 07:55 |
est31 |
for prs |
| 07:56 |
Calinou |
already did two |
| 07:56 |
Calinou |
if they're just typo fixes or such, go ahead |
| 07:57 |
est31 |
therefore I ask |
| 07:58 |
est31 |
I mean we have decided to not use them for the engine, for some reasons, now I wonder whether those reasons apply here too |
| 07:58 |
est31 |
but I guess its not important at all |
| 07:58 |
Calinou |
merge commits are much cleaner |
| 07:58 |
Calinou |
they actually respect how Git is meant to be used |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:00 |
sfan5 |
we do this to keep history linear |
| 08:00 |
sfan5 |
that applies to minetest.github.io too imo |
| 08:01 |
Calinou |
minetest.github.io isn't something most people will clone |
| 08:02 |
celeron55 |
est31: merge commits are fine for me |
| 08:02 |
est31 |
thats the reason Calinou why I think its not important |
| 08:03 |
celeron55 |
i don't think we need to have a fancy commit history in any of these "minor" repositories |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
I agree that merge commits clutter up the history, but the website is such a "minor" repo |
| 08:03 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
i'm surprised how much activity this repository immediately got; i guess this is ending up as a fairly good idea |
| 08:11 |
Calinou |
most FLOSS projects maintain their site on GitHub these days, it's nothing exceptional |
| 08:26 |
est31 |
man, its super ugly how entities handle static data |
| 08:26 |
est31 |
if you create an entity from nothing, you not just have no way to pass some static data to it |
| 08:27 |
est31 |
you also don't get nil in the on_activate callback |
| 08:27 |
est31 |
which means you have to check for "" |
| 08:32 |
est31 |
but changing this would possibly break mods |
| 08:36 |
nrzkt |
est31: yes it's one of the bloat things in core, and changing it break mods too. You also have another thing like this with mesh entities with empty meshes for some cases... |
| 08:51 |
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| 09:19 |
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| 09:22 |
Calinou |
Piwik was merged into minetest.net |
| 09:23 |
Calinou |
please test |
| 09:23 |
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| 10:07 |
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| 10:08 |
celeron55 |
Calinou: it will take an hour to update if i recall correctly; i can tell then |
| 10:09 |
celeron55 |
piwik is kind of slow-paced like that |
| 10:10 |
celeron55 |
wait, no, actually i can see already that it's working |
| 10:11 |
celeron55 |
it's logging specific pages and downloads too |
| 10:12 |
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| 10:22 |
Calinou |
http://www.minetest.net/servers.html is up! |
| 10:22 |
nrzkt |
Calinou: i think you should remove more from webpage |
| 10:23 |
nrzkt |
else the website only permit to top10 to be shown and be a little bit elitist |
| 10:23 |
Calinou |
why? sometimes you want to see all servers |
| 10:23 |
Calinou |
if we always expend the list, then the page becomes too long |
| 10:23 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: also, it's not necessary to write "Server List" right below "Servers". |
| 10:24 |
VanessaE |
I'd say write just "Server List" in the top part, delete the other one, and compact-out all of that whitespace |
| 10:26 |
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| 10:26 |
nrzkt |
Calinou: yes but for a player to search a server, only show the most ranked servers discriminate less ranked servers |
| 10:26 |
VanessaE |
the banner across the top should be narrower/shorter-in-height, lots of wasted space. |
| 10:28 |
Calinou |
VanessaE, sorry but wasted space is a Web design trend :) |
| 10:28 |
VanessaE |
ew. :P |
| 10:31 |
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| 10:35 |
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| 10:35 |
kilbith |
possible to limit/break that ? https://lut.im/xVOWQ9xV/qD01Z2oz |
| 10:35 |
kilbith |
it shifts all the column |
| 10:36 |
Calinou |
should we make a news post about new website? |
| 10:36 |
Calinou |
there is none right now |
| 10:40 |
Calinou |
https://etherpad.net/p/minetest-website-post |
| 10:41 |
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| 10:53 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou, seriously, please check before merging :P |
| 10:58 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 11:16 |
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| 11:31 |
est31 |
can I push https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/e530e5e75499ccb874b70d7416879d3d2b46df86 |
| 11:31 |
est31 |
reworded https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2c637ce1c26145269b09c62afb451240a8def401 |
| 11:32 |
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| 11:35 |
est31 |
will push it later this day |
| 12:11 |
nrzkt |
est31: okay for me |
| 12:14 |
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| 15:43 |
Megaf |
Folks, any word on Wayland support? |
| 15:44 |
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| 15:44 |
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| 15:44 |
Calinou |
we depend on Irrlicht for this task I guess. |
| 15:44 |
Calinou |
either way, native Wayland won't be ready for the desktop until a few years |
| 15:45 |
Calinou |
not even Fedora defaults to it, let alone Ubuntu and Debian |
| 15:46 |
Megaf |
Hm, fair enough, I'm just curious about it. On Debian we already have a preview of GNOME on Wayland, it runs well enough for a preview |
| 15:47 |
Calinou |
until NVIDIA ports their proprietary driver to use Wayland, there won't be any mass migrations really |
| 15:47 |
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| 15:47 |
Calinou |
and Steam games need to work with it too... |
| 15:48 |
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| 16:30 |
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| 16:33 |
celeron55 |
the way i ran minetest on my jolla/sailish phone was making irrlicht use its SDL2 backend |
| 16:33 |
celeron55 |
and SDL2 supports wayland |
| 16:34 |
celeron55 |
and whatever driver things on the device supported ES1 |
| 16:34 |
celeron55 |
some things were partially broken though |
| 16:35 |
celeron55 |
in any case that might be the closest MT has gotten to native wayland |
| 16:37 |
celeron55 |
and that was... umm... 18 months ago |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
Irrlicht uses SDL 2? |
| 16:38 |
celeron55 |
i think it was able to do that and it was the only way i could make it work in that situation |
| 16:38 |
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| 16:40 |
celeron55 |
wait, i think it only supported SDL1 and i had to port it to SDL2 |
| 16:40 |
celeron55 |
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/namespaceirr.html#ac25d94cf2e1037c7ca18ee79b3bd4505 |
| 16:40 |
celeron55 |
the end result was full of weird hacks anyway |
| 16:43 |
celeron55 |
i'll upload this just for the sake of it |
| 16:48 |
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| 17:22 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/celeron55/irrlicht-with-sailfish-hacks/commits/master |
| 17:22 |
celeron55 |
i think this is mostly what i did to irrlicht at that time |
| 17:23 |
celeron55 |
(it's included in https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/sailfish/build/sailfish/irrlicht thoughg) |
| 17:29 |
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| 17:31 |
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| 17:32 |
Tesseract |
celeron55: Are you using proxy_pass for the site? |
| 17:32 |
celeron55 |
yes; i find it kind of ridiculous but it does work |
| 17:33 |
Tesseract |
Have you enabled proxy_cache? It's pretty much static, just hive it a lifetime of 15m or so. |
| 17:33 |
celeron55 |
the only reason is for making the ^/forum/?(.*)$ -> forum.minetest.net/$1 redirect work |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
no i haven't, i guess i should |
| 17:34 |
Tesseract |
Doesn't Jekyll have a way of doing something like that? |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
it might; i don't know jekyll at all |
| 17:35 |
Calinou |
CraigyDavi, thanks for all the pull requests :) merged the pretty URLs one |
| 17:40 |
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| 17:49 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: Why are there like 20 copies if the icon with different names? |
| 17:49 |
Tesseract |
of* |
| 17:49 |
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| 17:49 |
Calinou |
Tesseract, responsive favicon :) from http://realfavicongenerator.net/ |
| 17:49 |
Calinou |
http://realfavicongenerator.net/favicon_checker?site=minetest.net |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
it's a terrible hack, but we need it until all browsers support SVG favicons |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
(only Firefox 41+ does currently) |
| 17:50 |
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| 17:51 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: Why can't you just link to one .png? |
| 17:51 |
Calinou |
it's not responsive |
| 17:52 |
Calinou |
high-DPI screens will have a blurry favicon, mobile browsers won't recognize it properly (= blurry or small icon) |
| 17:52 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: And if that's impossible at least move them into a sub-directory and use symlinks so they're not copies. |
| 17:52 |
Calinou |
moving to a subdirectory is possible, but not advised |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:52 |
Calinou |
http://realfavicongenerator.net/faq |
| 17:53 |
celeron55 |
Tesseract: now it's caching some stuff |
| 17:53 |
celeron55 |
umm... at least maybe |
| 17:54 |
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| 17:57 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: It looks like you'll be fine if you just add a symlink/leave favicon.ico and change the lines for IOS devices. |
| 17:57 |
sfan5 |
>iPhone and iPad users can turn web pages into icons on their home screen. |
| 17:57 |
sfan5 |
well uhh |
| 17:58 |
sfan5 |
we don't need to support that imo |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
i don't undetstand; the cache seems to be missing most of the time |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
i set nginx to set the X-Proxy-Cache header to indicate what its cache is doing |
| 17:59 |
celeron55 |
github's cache is seen in X-Cache and it's obviously hitting all the time |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
like hm |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
we dont need to support making the mt website into a "link" app on Android/iOS/W8 at all IMO |
| 18:00 |
Calinou |
don't underestimate people :) |
| 18:00 |
Tesseract |
celeron55: What's your config? |
| 18:02 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: Seems the argument for the -precomposed icon is just "there might be some weird platform out there that depends on it or something". |
| 18:02 |
Tesseract |
iOS doesn't use it and I see no reason for anything else to ever use it. |
| 18:02 |
Calinou |
precomposed could be removed, I agree |
| 18:03 |
Calinou |
few users use < iOS 7 |
| 18:03 |
Calinou |
maybe I'll make an issue on the RealFaviconGenerator GitHub |
| 18:03 |
Calinou |
80% of iOS users are on iOS 8 |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
Tesseract: essentially this http://fpaste.org/261614/41044214/ |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
it's definitely saving stuff in the cache directory though |
| 18:04 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: iOS < 7 doesn't need it either, it can do the precomposing itself. |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:08 |
Tesseract |
celeron55: Your request has no cache-control headers? |
| 18:08 |
est31 |
Calinou, can i push https://github.com/est31/minetest.github.io/commit/9660badb53b56f6215ec59f954421774e0460758 |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
wait i guess my browser is actually caching all these requests so effectively that i'm unable to make a condition where the browser does not request cache bypass but requests a page that would be cached |
| 18:08 |
est31 |
or everybody else :( |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
well i guess it's working then |
| 18:09 |
est31 |
) |
| 18:10 |
Calinou |
est31, go ahead |
| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
no; this isn't working |
| 18:11 |
Tesseract |
celeron55: wget/curl? |
| 18:11 |
celeron55 |
i can test this with curl and even if i request http://www.minetest.net/lib/js/bootstrap.min.js seconds apart, it's still a MISS |
| 18:11 |
celeron55 |
as indicated by X-Proxy-Cache: MISS |
| 18:13 |
est31 |
why not? → <Calinou> moving to a subdirectory is possible, but not advised |
| 18:14 |
Calinou |
some stupid browsers won't see them then :( |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
stupid ones |
| 18:14 |
est31 |
well, thats an argument |
| 18:25 |
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| 18:41 |
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| 18:45 |
paramat |
hi nore sfan5 please can you review game#651 and game#659 ? |
| 18:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/651 -- Fire: Move flame extinguishing to separate faster ABM by paramat |
| 18:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/659 -- Default/trees: Add not-force-placed tree schematics grown from saplings by paramat |
| 18:47 |
Tesseract |
Calinou: Here's my idea on how it should be: http://ix.io/kyy/diff |
| 18:49 |
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| 18:49 |
Tesseract |
Basic changelog: http://sprunge.us/XDTL |
| 18:49 |
Tesseract |
I actually decided to leave favicon.ico as it was though. |
| 18:50 |
luizrpgluiz |
hi all :D |
| 18:51 |
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| 18:52 |
celeron55 |
hmm... i think the cache is working now |
| 18:52 |
celeron55 |
i don't even know what fixed it of everything i did but... whatever |
| 18:55 |
CraigyDavi |
Calinou, you're welcome :) |
| 18:55 |
celeron55 |
what this does in practice is 1) bombard github with considerably less requests, 2) add a 0...5 minute delay to updates from github, 3) make the server usually respond as fast as if it was hosting the site itself |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
(i thought 5 minutes is probably a good compromise in update delay vs. cache usage) |
| 18:57 |
celeron55 |
also if github pages goes down, it will serve stuff from the cache |
| 18:57 |
celeron55 |
(probably won't happen but anyway, it's there) |
| 19:10 |
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| 19:54 |
nrzkt |
celeron55 which cache did you use ? varnish ? |
| 19:55 |
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| 19:55 |
celeron55 |
nrzkt: nginx proxy_cache |
| 19:56 |
celeron55 |
github seems to use varnish on their end |
| 19:56 |
Calinou |
how much visits does minetest.net get, according to Piwik? |
| 19:56 |
Calinou |
per day |
| 19:56 |
Calinou |
maybe website team could have some access to Piwik :) |
| 19:56 |
nrzkt |
celeron55, nginx proxy cache works good for our visitors, it's sufficient : |
| 19:59 |
celeron55 |
Calinou: piwik kind of sucks for generating any kind of good reports but here is a graph that lacks precision because piwik: http://i.imgur.com/9KI04sv.png |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:00 |
celeron55 |
the reason why the stats aren't public is because piwik lacks any functionality for limiting what is shown, and we don't want to publish all the stuff that piwik is able to show |
| 20:01 |
celeron55 |
i don't even know why piwik is used but oh well... |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
friends don't let friends use Google Analytics :) |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
well yeah, but the world is a pretty shitty place if this is the best thing when avoiding google analytics |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
did you ask #piwik on how to make it better? |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
whatever, i guess this works though |
| 20:04 |
celeron55 |
oh one thing: that download graph is misleading |
| 20:04 |
celeron55 |
it counted viewing screenshots on the dokuwiki pages as being downloads |
| 20:05 |
celeron55 |
the actual download number is something like half of that |
| 20:06 |
celeron55 |
so that's about 200-300 downloads per day |
| 20:08 |
celeron55 |
(also, i think there are plugins for piwik that do some of the stuff i (or we) would like to do; it's really up to Tesseract for installing any of them |
| 20:10 |
Tesseract |
celeron55: Anything in particular you want a plugin for? |
| 20:13 |
celeron55 |
some kind of a single-page saveable (maybe PDF) report could be useful |
| 20:14 |
celeron55 |
then we could set a layout for it and publish it whenever someone asks for stats |
| 20:15 |
celeron55 |
here's the same graph, but weekly, from half a year ago when stats started being collected: http://i.imgur.com/QjRijTt.png |
| 20:18 |
Tesseract |
Hmmm, I could just use print-to-file for that. |
| 20:21 |
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| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
maybe let's not bother 8) |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
but if you have a lot of time to spare, setting up something isn't the worst of ideas |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
it's just that the stats are rather boring |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
it's just those same numbers over and over again, months and months in history and future |
| 20:41 |
celeron55 |
there's nothing to see |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:56 |
Megaf |
celeron55: I have been using stat counter |
| 20:56 |
Megaf |
and they have native public stats (but is not self hosted) |
| 20:57 |
Megaf |
Anyway, they seem good enough |
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| 21:56 |
paramat |
now merging game#654 |
| 21:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/654 -- Default: Allow papyrus growing on default:sand by paramat |
| 21:59 |
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| 22:01 |
paramat |
merge complete |
| 22:01 |
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| 22:02 |
est31 |
hrmmm #3127 looks good, but why wasn't the error triggered before? |
| 22:02 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3127 -- Fix syntax error. by jh10001 |
| 22:02 |
est31 |
or what are the conditions of the triggering? |
| 22:06 |
paramat |
nore and all i might merge game#659 later since it's an urgent bugfix, maybe temporary, and is fixing my own work |
| 22:06 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/659 -- Default/trees: Add not-force-placed tree schematics grown from saplings by paramat |
| 22:14 |
paramat |
my many improvements to fire mod are here for testing game#651 it was a real mess, no wonder it locked up servers |
| 22:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/651 -- Fire: Move flame extinguishing to separate faster ABM by paramat |
| 22:21 |
paramat |
(fire spread is made a little faster than in 0.4.13) |
| 22:31 |
est31 |
bad bad trend https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=minetest |
| 22:35 |
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| 22:35 |
est31 |
hi RBA, how are you? |
| 22:35 |
RealBadAngel |
howdy |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
im about to finish signlike drawtype, it was pain in the ass to complete |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent imagined whats needed to make it real |
| 22:37 |
RealBadAngel |
what ive coded could be called either most ugly hack or most brilliant code, up to who reads it ;) |
| 22:38 |
est31 |
A graph comparing open source minecraft clones (mostly minetest forks): https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=minetest%2C%20multicraft%2C%20voxelands%2C%20Terasology%2C%20freeminer |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
but what ive noticed already, side effect of this code is realtime tinting of nodes |
| 22:38 |
est31 |
tinting? |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
grass foliage |
| 22:39 |
RealBadAngel |
ive made realtime modifications to textures possible |
| 22:39 |
est31 |
okay |
| 22:40 |
RealBadAngel |
and its per node, not per def |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE |
sounds useful. |
| 22:40 |
est31 |
yea |
| 22:41 |
RealBadAngel |
ive extended client side (only) meta to hold texture modifiers |
| 22:41 |
est31 |
ok |
| 22:41 |
Tesseract |
est31: Yikes! |
| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
atm im holding there textrures with text |
| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
but i can have there transparent faces with colour |
| 22:43 |
est31 |
Tesseract, ? |
| 22:43 |
Tesseract |
est31: MultiCraft statistics are way off: http://www.multicraft.org/ |
| 22:43 |
est31 |
ah |
| 22:43 |
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| 22:44 |
RealBadAngel |
so i can easily tint grass depending on biome for example |
| 22:44 |
est31 |
yea |
| 22:44 |
est31 |
thats a really good application |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, the request |
| 22:45 |
est31 |
if we have client side modding, we could save tinting information or such in the param1, then mods can provide functions that return texture modifiers for the param1. |
| 22:45 |
est31 |
but thats something for later |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
somebody should make ladder stop using NDT_SIGNLIKE in minetest game |
| 22:46 |
est31 |
param1 is more efficient storage than meta |
| 22:46 |
RealBadAngel |
and make it using nodeboxes or whatever |
| 22:46 |
VanessaE |
est31: param1 is needed for any non-solid node and anything that propagates sunlight. |
| 22:47 |
est31 |
VanessaE, I know, but dirt doesnt propaggate it :) |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
true :) |
| 22:47 |
RealBadAngel |
im making now proper signlike drawtype and i really dont want to care about misuses of previous inclomplete code |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: how close are you to superseding signs_lib? |
| 22:47 |
est31 |
in the worst case we just add a NDT_SIGNLIKE_NEW or such |
| 22:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have it almost done, not colors yet, but whole basics |
| 22:48 |
RealBadAngel |
including freetype |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
thought you weren't gonna consider freetype? |
| 22:48 |
RealBadAngel |
you have made me consider it :P |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 22:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i made signlike using the same font as GUI |
| 22:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i will make terminal code later on |
| 22:50 |
RealBadAngel |
frankly i found rendering text to texture quite easy |
| 22:51 |
RealBadAngel |
but only from main thread |
| 22:51 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway code is nice |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
as long as the rendered images are cached and re-used (rather than constantly re-rendered per frame) I see nothing wrong with that |
| 22:52 |
RealBadAngel |
something like that: http://pastie.org/10388406 |
| 22:52 |
RealBadAngel |
no cache |
| 22:52 |
RealBadAngel |
textures are made when meta changes (on demand) |
| 22:52 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 22:52 |
VanessaE |
I just meant no realtime re-rendering |
| 22:52 |
RealBadAngel |
and droped when block is unloaded |
| 22:53 |
RealBadAngel |
i was googling for solutions and spotted nice comparission |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
somebody compared each frame text rendering to displaying prepared texture |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
kinda 25x faster |
| 22:54 |
VanessaE |
I found a possible memory leak with the minimap btw: it doesn't drop cached imagery when the client discards the relevant mapblocks |
| 22:55 |
RealBadAngel |
now i have valgring and i know how to use it, i will test the minimap with it |
| 22:55 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 22:56 |
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| 22:56 |
RealBadAngel |
its surely broken by now |
| 22:56 |
RealBadAngel |
at least radar mode is |
| 22:57 |
RealBadAngel |
i will try to reorganize logic for it |
| 22:57 |
VanessaE |
test procedure is easy though: set client_mapblock_limit = 200 (or something else small) in minetest.conf. fly around some world that's substantially generated (i.e. some public server). compare the loaded, rendered mapblocks in the world with the ones shown in the minimap. |
| 22:57 |
VanessaE |
(the default is 5000, it's possible to notice it then, too, but a smaller value makes it easier) |
| 22:57 |
RealBadAngel |
what i was doing before was comparing nr of loaded blocks to number of cached minimap ones |
| 22:57 |
RealBadAngel |
it was steady same number |
| 22:58 |
RealBadAngel |
now its not |
| 22:58 |
RealBadAngel |
thx to "fixes" |
| 22:59 |
RealBadAngel |
also, i was playing skyblock a lot recently |
| 22:59 |
VanessaE |
I know. that's where I noticed it :D |
| 22:59 |
VanessaE |
I was flying around exploring that ocean you created. |
| 22:59 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, there are so many critical errors thats alomst unbeliveble they went unnoticed |
| 22:59 |
VanessaE |
you mean like the water flickering? |
| 22:59 |
VanessaE |
:P |
| 23:00 |
RealBadAngel |
thats nothing |
| 23:00 |
VanessaE |
what else? |
| 23:00 |
RealBadAngel |
how about switching picked item from inv and swap it randomly with other one? |
| 23:00 |
RealBadAngel |
annoying as hell |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
that happens to me a lot too |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
it's a mouse-drag-drop sensitivity issue |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
there's no threshold. |
| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
no? |
| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
it just swaps indexes |
| 23:02 |
est31 |
<VanessaE> as long as the rendered images are cached and re-used (rather than constantly re-rendered per frame) I see nothing wrong with that |
| 23:02 |
est31 |
thats the first requirement |
| 23:02 |
RealBadAngel |
it can be easily reproduced |
| 23:02 |
est31 |
second one is that cache shouldnt leak |
| 23:02 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, there wont be any cache |
| 23:02 |
est31 |
you want to re-render it on every frame? |
| 23:02 |
est31 |
or only meshgen? |
| 23:02 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc not |
| 23:02 |
RealBadAngel |
on demand |
| 23:02 |
VanessaE |
that's a cache. |
| 23:03 |
est31 |
yea |
| 23:03 |
RealBadAngel |
then stored in memory |
| 23:03 |
VanessaE |
you create the image as-needed and then just re-use the image until it has to change. |
| 23:03 |
RealBadAngel |
or dropped, so begone |
| 23:03 |
VanessaE |
*nod* |
| 23:03 |
VanessaE |
in any case, only one call ever, to the rendering code -- when the text changes or disappears. |
| 23:04 |
RealBadAngel |
per node (infotext) texure is nothing that should be cached |
| 23:04 |
RealBadAngel |
not a fucking way |
| 23:04 |
RealBadAngel |
other way is to render that each frame, which is even worse |
| 23:05 |
RealBadAngel |
when server sends meta change, i can see that |
| 23:05 |
RealBadAngel |
and i can update the texture |
| 23:05 |
RealBadAngel |
drop the old one, create new one |
| 23:06 |
VanessaE |
that's what we're saying, RBA. |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
and im confirming that |
| 23:06 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
;) |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
but no cache i repeat |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
such textures are dynamic |
| 23:07 |
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| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
saving a single texture somewhere in memory is still cacheing. |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
even if you delete/rewrite it periodically. |
| 23:07 |
est31 |
ah you mean that if two grass nodes are tinted the same way, you still generate two textures? |
| 23:07 |
est31 |
because then I agree its no cache |
| 23:07 |
RealBadAngel |
under term of "cache" i understand media sent to client and stored on hdd |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: nononono |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: in-memory cacheing |
| 23:08 |
VanessaE |
like in top(1) |
| 23:08 |
RealBadAngel |
in my code server wont be even aware of that |
| 23:08 |
VanessaE |
est31: I should hope that if the source textures, tinting, etc all is identical between two nodes, the same resultant texture would be re-used then :-/ |
| 23:09 |
RealBadAngel |
so newer client will show the signs even with old server (just the signs mod updated) |
| 23:09 |
RealBadAngel |
you would want to compare two infotexts to see if they can have identical textures? |
| 23:10 |
RealBadAngel |
no go |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
nah, but some kind of hash might be in order. |
| 23:10 |
est31 |
yea |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
hash the texture + markup, store that somewhere |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
compare the hashes |
| 23:10 |
est31 |
hash with reference counting |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
reference counting, whatever |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
hah, ninja'd |
| 23:10 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe in the future, not now |
| 23:11 |
est31 |
okay |
| 23:11 |
est31 |
but we should not build large obstacles into the way |
| 23:11 |
RealBadAngel |
stop requestin stuff like that when even basic functionality is not yet in :P |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: for now, it's probably fine, but such a thing will need to be implemented before tinting is offered to the modding community |
| 23:12 |
est31 |
yea |
| 23:12 |
est31 |
otherwise servers will implement tinting and it will be super lag |
| 23:12 |
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| 23:12 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, point is to let clients do it |
| 23:12 |
VanessaE |
est31: or memory leaks from hell. |
| 23:12 |
RealBadAngel |
as with the text |
| 23:12 |
est31 |
also, we should implement that idea with the param1 or param2 extraction |
| 23:12 |
est31 |
for tinting |
| 23:13 |
RealBadAngel |
no no no |
| 23:13 |
est31 |
its pointless for signs |
| 23:13 |
RealBadAngel |
hands off params :) |
| 23:13 |
est31 |
but for tinting its very helpful |
| 23:13 |
RealBadAngel |
you have meta |
| 23:13 |
est31 |
meta is inefficient |
| 23:13 |
est31 |
its a string |
| 23:13 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc not |
| 23:13 |
est31 |
param1 is an int |
| 23:14 |
RealBadAngel |
one of possible usages of meta is to store strings |
| 23:14 |
est31 |
also, imagine having a super long modifier string |
| 23:14 |
RealBadAngel |
i keep there pointers :P |
| 23:14 |
RealBadAngel |
next to strings ;) |
| 23:14 |
est31 |
ermmm |
| 23:14 |
est31 |
pointers? |
| 23:14 |
VanessaE |
for tinting, use param1 as an index into a palette, like with gif. |
| 23:14 |
est31 |
seriously? |
| 23:15 |
RealBadAngel |
to textures |
| 23:15 |
RealBadAngel |
but only client side |
| 23:15 |
RealBadAngel |
i do not attempt to send them |
| 23:15 |
est31 |
erm... |
| 23:15 |
est31 |
using meta this way is a hack |
| 23:16 |
RealBadAngel |
when i get the block, deserialize it |
| 23:16 |
RealBadAngel |
i know when i should make a new texture |
| 23:16 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, what exactly do you mean with "pointer"? |
| 23:16 |
RealBadAngel |
so i do and store it on the client side meta |
| 23:18 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean client side meta can hold extra data which server doesnt need to know about |
| 23:18 |
est31 |
it can |
| 23:18 |
est31 |
but its not the intended use |
| 23:19 |
RealBadAngel |
theres no other way im afraid |
| 23:19 |
est31 |
its cleaner to have an extra helper structure somewhere |
| 23:19 |
RealBadAngel |
textures cannot be made in a thread other than main |
| 23:20 |
est31 |
no problem with that |
| 23:20 |
RealBadAngel |
thats out of discussion |
| 23:20 |
RealBadAngel |
so, we have left content mapblock and mapblock mesh |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
only possible way is to do that on deserialize got content |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
now think about storing the texture you have made |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
where? |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
meta is the only solution |
| 23:21 |
est31 |
perhaps we should have client_content_mapblock |
| 23:21 |
est31 |
or so |
| 23:21 |
RealBadAngel |
otherwise mapblock mesh wont get it |
| 23:21 |
est31 |
and then store the pointers there |
| 23:22 |
RealBadAngel |
content mapblock is client side only already |
| 23:22 |
RealBadAngel |
but not main thread |
| 23:22 |
est31 |
but? |
| 23:22 |
RealBadAngel |
you cant run there any image or texture routines. read cannot invoke driver |
| 23:23 |
RealBadAngel |
irrlicht is not thread safe and will propably never be |
| 23:24 |
RealBadAngel |
such simple thing as creating new image in a thread is impossible |
| 23:24 |
est31 |
which thread creates content mapblock? |
| 23:25 |
RealBadAngel |
mapblock mesh invokes it |
| 23:25 |
est31 |
okay |
| 23:25 |
RealBadAngel |
which is called by client.cpp and mesh update thread |
| 23:25 |
est31 |
yea |
| 23:28 |
RealBadAngel |
at the time youre analyzing the nodes to get the meshes you read only defs |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
so each node of the same kind is the same |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
only way to store data that differs them is meta |
| 23:30 |
VanessaE |
considering this is the client handling that meta, and the server never sees or stores it, I don't see a HUGE problem with the idea. |
| 23:30 |
est31 |
VanessaE, can you open a bug report with that minimap leak |
| 23:30 |
est31 |
so that we dont forget it |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
my idea is to server send the text as it does already |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
I can't confirm if what I saw is accurate, better to let RealBadAngel do whatever rework he has in mind first. |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
then client on receive creates the texture |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
and stores it as long block is in use |
| 23:32 |
RealBadAngel |
so its transparent, no send action needed |
| 23:32 |
RealBadAngel |
on unload texture got trashed |
| 23:33 |
RealBadAngel |
same would apply to foliage |
| 23:34 |
est31 |
VanessaE, I dont think that deletion is implemented |
| 23:34 |
est31 |
so its a half-confirm from me :) |
| 23:34 |
RealBadAngel |
just make random generator work the same on both sides and apply that on client side to the base texture |
| 23:35 |
RealBadAngel |
so server will know only the seed, client will apply |
| 23:35 |
est31 |
? |
| 23:36 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean transitions in grass colour between biomes for example |
| 23:37 |
RealBadAngel |
so on the server side grass node is the same, but on the clients it can look different way |
| 23:38 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats just a sidenote |
| 23:39 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, ive switched to full hd monitor |
| 23:39 |
est31 |
well, texture packs modifications with tinting could be done with that param1 trick |
| 23:40 |
RealBadAngel |
its pretty weird that this 80 chars limit makes the code occupying just a margin of my display lol |
| 23:40 |
est31 |
you just provide your own function get_texture_modifier(node_name, param1) |
| 23:40 |
RealBadAngel |
like 1/4th of the screen |
| 23:40 |
est31 |
yea |
| 23:40 |
est31 |
its useful though, because you can open multiple windows simultaneously |
| 23:41 |
est31 |
no more single tasking :p |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
but |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
what i have noticed |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
now im at much higher resolution |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
no change in speed |
| 23:42 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean in game |
| 23:42 |
RealBadAngel |
and THATS pretty weird |
| 23:44 |
RealBadAngel |
also, another thing, not related |
| 23:44 |
RealBadAngel |
inventory has to be given option to split stacks |
| 23:44 |
est31 |
you can split stacks already |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
into n - 1 : 1 |
| 23:45 |
RealBadAngel |
what we do have now (touching a stacks with two fingers) is a joke |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
1 : n-1 |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
n/2 : n/2 |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
n - 10 : 10 |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
10 : n -10 |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
that are the options |
| 23:45 |
RealBadAngel |
have you actually tried to do that on a small scren? |
| 23:46 |
est31 |
you mean touchscreen? |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 23:46 |
est31 |
ah yeah |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
there should be two slots to split input |
| 23:46 |
est31 |
Tesseract, small question regarding security. does the minetest.something API also get included into the table returned by minetest.request_insecure_environment()? |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
most easy solution |
| 23:46 |
est31 |
and if this api gets included, is it the same table as the "official" insecure minetest.something API? |
| 23:47 |
est31 |
I mean if a mod overrides minetest.get_player_privs |
| 23:47 |
est31 |
and you have something like worldedit chat commands |
| 23:47 |
est31 |
which checks for server priv for arbitrary lua command entry |
| 23:48 |
est31 |
then the evil untrusted mod could fake server privs, and decide which players to also give arbitrary lua command entry |
| 23:49 |
est31 |
and possibly that entry isn't sandboxed |
| 23:49 |
est31 |
the mod could even bypass the whole chat mechanism I guess |
| 23:50 |
est31 |
just call minetest.registered_chatcommands["/lua_cmd"].func(admin_name) |
| 23:50 |
Tesseract |
est31: No, it isn't included. |
| 23:54 |
est31 |
do secure trusted mods get loaded before or after untrusted mods? |
| 23:54 |
est31 |
or unordered? |
| 23:56 |
est31 |
ouch https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=189354#p189354 |
| 23:56 |
est31 |
one way to fix it would be to load all trusted mods first |
| 23:56 |
est31 |
but ofc if a trusted mod depends on an untrusted one, we have a problem |
| 23:57 |
est31 |
the sandbox isnt ready for opening the floodgates |
| 23:57 |
est31 |
except we dont execute any trusted mod |
| 23:58 |
est31 |
(with "opening the floodgates" i mean adding unmoderated mod repos like minetest-bower to the client's functionality) |
