| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 06:16 |
RealBadAngel |
ping pong |
| 06:16 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody alive? |
| 06:19 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 06:26 |
RealBadAngel |
hi VanessaE, whats up? |
| 06:26 |
VanessaE |
not much |
| 06:30 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2748 |
| 06:30 |
RealBadAngel |
what do you think about that? |
| 06:32 |
VanessaE |
no opinion really |
| 06:32 |
RealBadAngel |
its damn easy to code |
| 06:34 |
hmmmmmm |
paramat: i don't really have a problem with it |
| 06:34 |
hmmmmmm |
RBA: what did you need before? |
| 06:34 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmmmm, got ya! |
| 06:34 |
hmmmmmm |
you highlighted my name |
| 06:34 |
RealBadAngel |
several times since 2 days :) |
| 06:34 |
hmmmmmm |
yeah what's up |
| 06:34 |
|
chchjesus joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:34 |
RealBadAngel |
see my PR, ive made it |
| 06:35 |
hmmmmmm |
by the way how's the minimap been going |
| 06:35 |
RealBadAngel |
waiting for this one to be merged |
| 06:35 |
RealBadAngel |
for the minimap i need relief mapping |
| 06:36 |
RealBadAngel |
to make terrain actually look 3d |
| 06:36 |
hmmmmmm |
GLSL has an unsigned int type |
| 06:36 |
hmmmmmm |
for counts of things or number of iterations, why not use 'uint'? |
| 06:37 |
RealBadAngel |
if you count down, you can hit -1 |
| 06:37 |
hmmmmmm |
that would be iterating over a coordinate range though, would it not? |
| 06:38 |
hmmmmmm |
typically speaking |
| 06:38 |
hmmmmmm |
you normally wouldn't have a situation where you'd count down |
| 06:38 |
RealBadAngel |
thats rather a manner |
| 06:38 |
hmmmmmm |
it's not typical i mean to say |
| 06:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i just used to rely on signed in such cases |
| 06:38 |
hmmmmmm |
great job on the cleanup |
| 06:39 |
RealBadAngel |
i did more than you wanted me to |
| 06:39 |
hmmmmmm |
+if (fogDistance != 0.0) { |
| 06:39 |
hmmmmmm |
is it safe to compare to a literal float value here? |
| 06:39 |
hmmmmmm |
I don't know the answer, I'm just asking you to make sure that it's indeed correct here |
| 06:39 |
RealBadAngel |
its so old code that for sure its safe ;) |
| 06:40 |
hmmmmmm |
not sure if the rules for floats are different from C |
| 06:41 |
hmmmmmm |
excellent |
| 06:41 |
RealBadAngel |
very different |
| 06:41 |
hmmmmmm |
I love how you were able to cut down on that if/else if chain for normal ranges |
| 06:41 |
RealBadAngel |
you need to cast the value directly |
| 06:41 |
hmmmmmm |
repetitive code is usually bad code |
| 06:41 |
RealBadAngel |
so 1 is not the same as 1.0 |
| 06:41 |
RealBadAngel |
1 will be in and 1.0 will be float |
| 06:42 |
RealBadAngel |
but not for all compilers |
| 06:43 |
RealBadAngel |
glsl is pain in the ass to debug and develop |
| 06:43 |
hmmmmmm |
now wait |
| 06:43 |
hmmmmmm |
explain to me why tangents are needed for shaders |
| 06:43 |
RealBadAngel |
what works for me doesnt work elsewhere ;) |
| 06:43 |
RealBadAngel |
sure |
| 06:43 |
RealBadAngel |
tangent space is texture space |
| 06:44 |
RealBadAngel |
every light, displacement, reflection etc calculations are done in that space |
| 06:44 |
RealBadAngel |
not in the worlds one |
| 06:45 |
RealBadAngel |
so each vertex has to be given all three vectors, normal, tangent and bitangent (binormal) |
| 06:45 |
RealBadAngel |
those can be calculated out of 4 vertices |
| 06:46 |
RealBadAngel |
shader knows at one time only 3 of them |
| 06:46 |
hmmmmmm |
I mean how did it work before without explicit tangent values |
| 06:46 |
RealBadAngel |
and the normal to the surface |
| 06:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i simulated it |
| 06:47 |
RealBadAngel |
it was absurdly costly and very faulty in certain cases |
| 06:47 |
hmmmmmm |
oh i seee that |
| 06:47 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why i wasnt able to make parallax effect more noticeable |
| 06:48 |
hmmmmmm |
glMultiTexCoord1 is the tangent space |
| 06:48 |
RealBadAngel |
2 too |
| 06:48 |
hmmmmmm |
well that's the binormal |
| 06:48 |
hmmmmmm |
binormal is the thing orthogonal to normal and tangent, is it not? |
| 06:48 |
RealBadAngel |
tangent space is 3 vectors |
| 06:49 |
hmmmmmm |
right |
| 06:49 |
hmmmmmm |
tangent space includes tangent as one of the vectors |
| 06:49 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 06:49 |
hmmmmmm |
alright this all makes a lot of sense |
| 06:49 |
RealBadAngel |
if you have 2 of them, you can get 3rd |
| 06:49 |
RealBadAngel |
before we had just one |
| 06:50 |
RealBadAngel |
now we got all 3 |
| 06:50 |
hmmmmmm |
does explicitly computing tangents outside of the shaders make a difference in the way the game looks normally, without parallax occlusion enabled or any of the heavy graphics things? |
| 06:50 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 06:51 |
RealBadAngel |
those are calculated in thread and only used when shaders enabled |
| 06:51 |
RealBadAngel |
without shaders it doesnt change anything |
| 06:51 |
RealBadAngel |
but |
| 06:52 |
RealBadAngel |
if we have it calculated properly, we can start to use it |
| 06:52 |
RealBadAngel |
we can implement proper lighting for all the objects |
| 06:52 |
RealBadAngel |
even round |
| 06:52 |
hmmmmmm |
right |
| 06:53 |
hmmmmmm |
alrighty maybe i'm overestimating the memory usage impact for having those two extra floats |
| 06:53 |
RealBadAngel |
im pretty sure they were used anyway |
| 06:53 |
hmmmmmm |
see I originally was hesitant on bloating the size of a vector because there are like... millions of vectors on runtime |
| 06:53 |
RealBadAngel |
but just not initialized |
| 06:53 |
hmmmmmm |
S3DVertex doesn't have those fields |
| 06:54 |
hmmmmmm |
by the way this is what I was saying about leveraging covariant types |
| 06:54 |
RealBadAngel |
s3dvertex maybe not |
| 06:54 |
RealBadAngel |
but gpu for sure uses those vectors |
| 06:54 |
hmmmmmm |
S3DVertexTangents is a superclass of S3DVertex |
| 06:55 |
hmmmmmm |
so you can do |
| 06:55 |
hmmmmmm |
S3DVertex *verts = (S3DVertex *)(vertex_tangents); |
| 06:55 |
hmmmmmm |
verts[i].Pos += whatever; regardless of actual vertex format |
| 06:56 |
RealBadAngel |
with this version of irrlicht maybe |
| 06:56 |
hmmmmmm |
so it seems what you did is change PreMeshBuffer to have two vectors |
| 06:56 |
hmmmmmm |
this doesn't change. |
| 06:56 |
RealBadAngel |
but if something changes we are still secure |
| 06:56 |
hmmmmmm |
trust me. if this changes within the next 10 versions of irrlicht I'll eat my hat |
| 06:56 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 06:56 |
hmmmmmm |
it's part of the interface |
| 06:56 |
hmmmmmm |
they can't break something like this |
| 06:56 |
hmmmmmm |
so |
| 06:57 |
hmmmmmm |
one thing you COULD do is make PreMeshBuffer a templated class |
| 06:57 |
RealBadAngel |
ah |
| 06:57 |
RealBadAngel |
i tried |
| 06:57 |
hmmmmmm |
what happened |
| 06:57 |
RealBadAngel |
our code |
| 06:57 |
RealBadAngel |
we directly write that data runtime |
| 06:58 |
RealBadAngel |
animations, lighting |
| 06:58 |
hmmmmmm |
?? |
| 06:58 |
hmmmmmm |
rmmahh |
| 06:58 |
RealBadAngel |
its not just grabbed, its modified on the fly |
| 06:59 |
hmmmmmm |
i see a potential problem |
| 06:59 |
hmmmmmm |
i have this problem too |
| 06:59 |
hmmmmmm |
every time I say to myself, "Templates would work excellent here!" |
| 06:59 |
RealBadAngel |
so premesh buffer is in fact the resulting mesh |
| 06:59 |
hmmmmmm |
I try it and then I change my mind |
| 06:59 |
hmmmmmm |
I can forsee a problem |
| 07:00 |
hmmmmmm |
maybe you're right, just change all of them to S3DVertexTangents |
| 07:00 |
|
Darcidride joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i spent 3 days coding the templates, then got pissed off and wrote what you can see now in 2 hours |
| 07:00 |
hmmmmmm |
right |
| 07:00 |
hmmmmmm |
sorry about that |
| 07:00 |
hmmmmmm |
i shouldn'tve told you to do this |
| 07:00 |
hmmmmmm |
templates never work well |
| 07:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i did that to premesh buffers, ok |
| 07:01 |
RealBadAngel |
then meshcollector wanted to be templated to |
| 07:01 |
RealBadAngel |
then rest of the code happily announced that it wants direct access to it, not the templates |
| 07:02 |
RealBadAngel |
only solution that could work could be to use original irrlicht meshbuffers |
| 07:02 |
hmmmmmm |
I encountered the reason why we use PreMeshBuffer |
| 07:03 |
hmmmmmm |
when I was writing my mini-minetest |
| 07:03 |
RealBadAngel |
lighting and texture animations |
| 07:03 |
RealBadAngel |
also append |
| 07:03 |
hmmmmmm |
what I ended up doing was SMeshBuffer->Vertices.reallocate(4096); and then SMeshBuffer->Verticies.push_back(); manually instead of .append() |
| 07:03 |
RealBadAngel |
original append does something with memory reallociation |
| 07:03 |
hmmmmmm |
that avoids the copy altogether |
| 07:04 |
|
troller joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:04 |
hmmmmmm |
well |
| 07:04 |
hmmmmmm |
that's something that would be cool to have in the future |
| 07:04 |
hmmmmmm |
(removing PreMeshBuffer completely) |
| 07:04 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:05 |
hmmmmmm |
alrighty then |
| 07:05 |
RealBadAngel |
this time havent go wasted, ive learned a lot bout meshbuffers thx to that |
| 07:05 |
hmmmmmm |
sorry about the whole template mess |
| 07:05 |
RealBadAngel |
np |
| 07:05 |
hmmmmmm |
change everything back to S3DVertexTangents :/ |
| 07:05 |
hmmmmmm |
looks great otherwise |
| 07:05 |
RealBadAngel |
actually im not sure now |
| 07:05 |
hmmmmmm |
why |
| 07:05 |
hmmmmmm |
this is so much messier and everybody uses shaders |
| 07:06 |
hmmmmmm |
so it's not like it's making a huge difference |
| 07:06 |
hmmmmmm |
if no shaders were the common case, then I could see |
| 07:06 |
RealBadAngel |
i added some code to it to better handle premeshbuffers |
| 07:06 |
hmmmmmm |
well in that case |
| 07:06 |
hmmmmmm |
about the PreMeshBuffer modifications... |
| 07:07 |
RealBadAngel |
only what worries me is that if (m_enable_shaders) |
| 07:07 |
hmmmmmm |
why do you return u8 * for vertices? |
| 07:07 |
RealBadAngel |
it doesnt really matter |
| 07:07 |
RealBadAngel |
it could be void* |
| 07:07 |
hmmmmmm |
void * is needed for a generic pointer |
| 07:07 |
RealBadAngel |
its always cast to anything else |
| 07:08 |
hmmmmmm |
there's no guarantee that pointer types are all the same size |
| 07:08 |
hmmmmmm |
what if a u8 * is smaller than a S3DVertex * on a certain machine? |
| 07:08 |
RealBadAngel |
irrlicht uses void* for meshbuffers |
| 07:08 |
hmmmmmm |
void * is guaranteed to fit any pointer type. that's why we use it |
| 07:08 |
RealBadAngel |
in fact that was kahrl suggestion |
| 07:08 |
hmmmmmm |
then change it :) |
| 07:09 |
RealBadAngel |
when we changed functions in mesh.cpp |
| 07:09 |
RealBadAngel |
those switch things |
| 07:09 |
hmmmmmm |
also you can make the code more expressive/compact by using ternary operators here |
| 07:09 |
hmmmmmm |
and then the initializer list is supposed to be indented another level |
| 07:09 |
|
jin_xi joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:09 |
hmmmmmm |
there's supposed to be a space between the constructor prototype and the : |
| 07:10 |
hmmmmmm |
and there's not supposed to be a space between the function name and the argument list |
| 07:11 |
RealBadAngel |
there can be some issues still |
| 07:11 |
RealBadAngel |
im still working on this pr |
| 07:12 |
RealBadAngel |
atm i wanted to show you what i did with premeshbuffer |
| 07:12 |
RealBadAngel |
meanwhile ive added range limitation to parallax/relief effect |
| 07:13 |
RealBadAngel |
it doesnt have to be applied to every rendered node - you simply could not see that out of 15-20 nodes range |
| 07:14 |
RealBadAngel |
also i need to add in menu selection which displacement code to use, parallax occlusion or relief mapping |
| 07:15 |
RealBadAngel |
first works ok with HD textures and is faster (but have some limitations, HD textures can cover them) |
| 07:16 |
RealBadAngel |
relief is more accurate, can work with any data but is damn slower |
| 07:16 |
hmmmmmm |
okay |
| 07:17 |
kilbith |
relief and parallax mutually exclusive right ? |
| 07:17 |
kilbith |
+are |
| 07:17 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre basing on same math, almost |
| 07:17 |
RealBadAngel |
but relief is more accurate |
| 07:17 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on a sec |
| 07:18 |
RealBadAngel |
http://www.cescg.org/CESCG-2006/papers/TUBudapest-Premecz-Matyas.pdf |
| 07:18 |
RealBadAngel |
here you have all the methods explained |
| 07:19 |
kilbith |
you may need to disable each other on checkboxes if one's selected |
| 07:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i see it like off/parallax/relief |
| 07:19 |
kilbith |
yes, dropdown better |
| 07:19 |
RealBadAngel |
so no checkbox |
| 07:20 |
RealBadAngel |
and definitely one day i will have to make my own tab for settings |
| 07:20 |
kilbith |
btw this menu needs to be reworked, it's too confined in space |
| 07:21 |
RealBadAngel |
number of shader options will grow enormously soon |
| 07:22 |
RealBadAngel |
thx to tangent space finally in i can continue with all the projects i paused before |
| 07:22 |
RealBadAngel |
lava/water shaders, reflections, post processing |
| 07:22 |
RealBadAngel |
yikes! :) |
| 07:23 |
hmmmmmm |
are you sure it's not a better idea to just make all of the s3dvertexes into s3dvertextangents? |
| 07:24 |
OldCoder |
Attention. Server List stopped entirely for all of my worlds on Debian 8. Building a newer curl by hand seems to have corrected the problem. |
| 07:24 |
OldCoder |
sfan5, ^ |
| 07:26 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:26 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmmmm, it could make code cleaner |
| 07:26 |
hmmmmmm |
exactly |
| 07:26 |
hmmmmmm |
it's up to you. |
| 07:27 |
RealBadAngel |
lets get kahrls or c55 voice on that |
| 07:28 |
hmmmmmm |
erm, well okay |
| 07:28 |
hmmmmmm |
i highly doubt they're going to care :) |
| 07:29 |
RealBadAngel |
est31 was complainin bout memory usage too |
| 07:30 |
RealBadAngel |
its true but to some degree |
| 07:31 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE did stress tests for it, with dreambuilder and hdx textures speed was almost the same (1 fps difference, can be just noise) |
| 07:31 |
RealBadAngel |
and memory usage on the same level |
| 07:31 |
RealBadAngel |
but with shaders, 30% fps gain |
| 07:34 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmmmm, btw, have you actually try the displacement effect in action? |
| 07:34 |
hmmmmmm |
no |
| 07:34 |
RealBadAngel |
i highly recommend that |
| 07:34 |
RealBadAngel |
especially walk around cacti or diamond ore node :) |
| 07:35 |
hmmmmmm |
i'll check it out when it's merged |
| 07:35 |
RealBadAngel |
no screenshots can show that |
| 07:36 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, so i will add the config options now and will wait for others votes if i should go back to tangent vertices |
| 07:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i can think of just one reason why we would need them both |
| 07:38 |
RealBadAngel |
android devices |
| 07:39 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre not powerfull enough to use such advanced shaders and each byte here counts |
| 07:44 |
Calinou |
shouldn't we disable shaders entirely on Android? they're likely to give a poor experience due to low FPS |
| 07:47 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, we rather should prepare simplyfied version of them just for android devices |
| 07:47 |
RealBadAngel |
only to handle finalColorBlend |
| 07:47 |
RealBadAngel |
ie day/night transitions and nothing more |
| 07:48 |
RealBadAngel |
and disable for android regular code |
| 07:49 |
RealBadAngel |
those devices always support ES |
| 07:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i bet ES shader will be faster than regular code |
| 07:57 |
RealBadAngel |
brb |
| 08:00 |
|
Yepoleb_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:10 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2768 |
| 08:33 |
|
cvtsx joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:54 |
|
Amaz joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:59 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, thx, i will have to manually rebase my PR then :) |
| 09:00 |
RealBadAngel |
cant we have just one license file for christ sake? |
| 09:00 |
RealBadAngel |
it starts to feel like pain in the ass to maintain |
| 09:10 |
RealBadAngel |
just put into each file license header and update list of contributors in a file next to readme.txt |
| 09:10 |
RealBadAngel |
without details, its a noise and most of us doesnt care of licenses even |
| 09:12 |
RealBadAngel |
such shit just slows down development, you could use that time for something actually usefull |
| 09:13 |
technomancy |
really? you could use the thirty seconds it takes to click "merge pull request" for something useful? |
| 09:13 |
technomancy |
I agree having a list of names is a waste of time, but I hope "most of us don't care about licenses" isn't true =\ |
| 09:14 |
technomancy |
I for one am glad that I have the freedom to legally copy and distribute minetest |
| 09:15 |
jin_xi |
pls no. this is not the point. its more that this kind of pullrequest is not accepted ever, just like any other edit across the whole code base |
| 09:17 |
technomancy |
fair enough |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
if we have one central license file, the problem will be gone |
| 09:20 |
RealBadAngel |
also updates to it will never break any pr |
| 09:23 |
technomancy |
I agree; my understanding is it's only the Apache license that requires the header to be repeated in each file. no idea why you would do that in this codebase. |
| 09:33 |
RealBadAngel |
technomancy, its not about the license at all. its about 300 copies of it |
| 09:33 |
|
Amaz joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:33 |
Calinou |
+RealBadAngel> cant we have just one license file for christ sake? |
| 09:33 |
Calinou |
license headers are important in case someone pastes the code on eg. a pastebin |
| 09:33 |
Calinou |
they are not entirely redundant |
| 09:33 |
Calinou |
this is why the FSF recommends using them |
| 09:34 |
Calinou |
(and in fact, you are supposed to have headers if you're using a GNU license) |
| 09:34 |
RealBadAngel |
i hate lawyers. and the way they make our lives a hell :P |
| 09:35 |
RealBadAngel |
lawyers should be shot down in a cradle. on a very first sign of a lawyer face ;) |
| 09:36 |
Calinou |
this is not lawyering |
| 09:37 |
Calinou |
this is common sense |
| 09:37 |
Calinou |
if there is no header, no one has an idea of what the file does, who owns it, and what you can do with it, once the file is put on eg. a pastebin. |
| 09:37 |
Calinou |
or distributed individuallyu |
| 09:37 |
Calinou |
-u |
| 09:42 |
RealBadAngel |
#license |
| 09:42 |
RealBadAngel |
#put there general license |
| 09:42 |
RealBadAngel |
#this file is part of mt project |
| 09:43 |
RealBadAngel |
end of license |
| 09:43 |
RealBadAngel |
erm #see license.txt in main folder for details |
| 09:43 |
Calinou |
"see license.txt" doesn't work on pastebins. |
| 09:43 |
Calinou |
nor does it work when the file is distributed individually |
| 09:43 |
RealBadAngel |
put there link |
| 09:43 |
RealBadAngel |
to that file |
| 09:44 |
Calinou |
https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoticeInSourceFile |
| 09:44 |
RealBadAngel |
pile of lawyers shit |
| 09:44 |
RealBadAngel |
long live WTFPL! |
| 09:45 |
RealBadAngel |
;) |
| 09:45 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway i do not care, if somebody HAVE to take care of it, im glad its you not me |
| 09:45 |
Calinou |
even WTFPL is better with an header |
| 09:46 |
Calinou |
my point is, you should always have an header, even a 1-line one :P |
| 09:47 |
RealBadAngel |
and my point is that theres always a need to hire a lawyer |
| 09:47 |
Calinou |
you don't have to hire a lawyer... |
| 09:47 |
RealBadAngel |
or waste our time |
| 09:47 |
Calinou |
except for enforcing the GPL :( |
| 09:47 |
Calinou |
(unless you perform some sort of community enforcement; but you don't need copyleft for this) |
| 09:47 |
RealBadAngel |
and our time is even more precious |
| 09:48 |
RealBadAngel |
because we do things real |
| 09:49 |
RealBadAngel |
and that rights or lefts doesnt add anything to the project |
| 09:50 |
technomancy |
IMO it's the responsibility of the person putting it in the pastebin to make the license clear |
| 09:50 |
RealBadAngel |
piece of code pasted elsewhere is worthless |
| 09:51 |
RealBadAngel |
it doesnt mean anything without it |
| 09:51 |
Calinou |
technomancy, but they can be lazy, or they can not know what licenses mean... |
| 09:51 |
technomancy |
Calinou: so that's their problem |
| 09:51 |
Calinou |
few pastebins have a "Description" field |
| 09:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and pastebins are not for distributin the code |
| 09:51 |
Calinou |
and even less a "License" field |
| 09:51 |
Calinou |
RealBadAngel, you'd be surprised how often it happens in practice :P |
| 09:52 |
RealBadAngel |
even if, so what? |
| 09:52 |
RealBadAngel |
do we care bout it? |
| 09:52 |
technomancy |
if you use pastebins for distributing code you likely have a lot bigger problems than determining its license |
| 09:53 |
RealBadAngel |
we are doing it for free, not expecting anything |
| 09:54 |
RealBadAngel |
if somebody knock my doors regarding license bout my code will earn punch in the face |
| 09:54 |
RealBadAngel |
nothin less nothin more |
| 09:55 |
RealBadAngel |
its free (tm) ;) |
| 10:09 |
kilbith |
lol |
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est31 |
pushing in 5 minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/05f4e9ee08f93b17c3dbaf2b6a1022cc28a226ce |
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est31 |
pushed |
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| 16:50 |
Etzos |
What is the oldest/most oudated system minetest is intended to be compiled on? |
| 16:53 |
est31 |
Ubuntu 12.04 |
| 16:53 |
est31 |
perhaps older ones too |
| 16:53 |
est31 |
I think the very oldest is windows XP |
| 16:59 |
Etzos |
So theoretically increasing the minimum cmake version to 2.8 should be okay then? |
| 17:00 |
est31 |
what features of 2.8 would you want to use? |
| 17:00 |
Etzos |
*theoretically, increasing |
| 17:01 |
Etzos |
file(COPY ...) |
| 17:02 |
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| 17:02 |
est31 |
replacing what? |
| 17:02 |
est31 |
and in which cmake file? |
| 17:03 |
Etzos |
Not replacing, adding. I've been trying to get out-of-source builds functioning properly. I would like to have file(COPY ...) so that I can copy script files into the build directory for quick debugging behind a cmake option, naturally. |
| 17:04 |
Calinou |
yes, we don't support older than Ubuntu 12.04 |
| 17:04 |
Calinou |
we will stop supporting it in April 2017 |
| 17:05 |
est31 |
perhaps |
| 17:05 |
est31 |
perhaps earlier |
| 17:08 |
Etzos |
I don't need cmake 2.8, but it certainly makes it easier. And if I can safely assume that it's available I don't see a reason to staying with 2.6. |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
which script files? |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
the builtin lua? |
| 17:09 |
Etzos |
Yes. |
| 17:10 |
Etzos |
Non-compiled sources. |
| 17:10 |
Calinou |
<+est31> perhaps earlier |
| 17:10 |
Calinou |
there will still be Ubuntu 12.04 (especially server) and Debian 7 (especially server) users in 2017 :( |
| 17:10 |
Calinou |
this is the sad story of long term support |
| 17:10 |
Calinou |
I wish Canonical didn't extend its support to 5 years, actually |
| 17:10 |
Calinou |
it's of little purpose |
| 17:11 |
est31 |
it is purposeful |
| 17:11 |
est31 |
e.g. when you have a company and dont want to update every single year |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
that's an outdated culture IMO |
| 17:12 |
est31 |
see how painful it was to leave windows XP |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
if you can't afford to upgrade every 2 years... |
| 17:12 |
est31 |
yes perhaps |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
it's exactly how we land into Windows XP land |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:12 |
est31 |
but question is whether we should support an OS thats mostly interesting for the corporate world |
| 17:12 |
est31 |
or big institutions |
| 17:12 |
Etzos |
How many people are actually running minetest on servers that old? |
| 17:13 |
est31 |
*shrug* |
| 17:13 |
est31 |
or whether we should support users who are too afraid to click the "do-release-upgrade" button |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
we don't need to support XP anymore, but we still do for instance :P |
| 17:13 |
Etzos |
Or compiling even. It could be compiled on a newer system and then moved to the old server if need be. |
| 17:13 |
est31 |
like I think with ubuntu 12.04 support |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
many applications, especially modern games, stopped shipping 32-bit support |
| 17:13 |
est31 |
Etzos, that wont work |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
we can't do that yet but maybe in 5 years |
| 17:14 |
est31 |
thats only important when you have solely binary releases |
| 17:14 |
est31 |
so only a matter for closed source software :) |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
Fedora plans to drop 32-bit soon, so will Ubuntu |
| 17:16 |
est31 |
*shrug* |
| 17:16 |
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| 17:17 |
Calinou |
Debian will drop it in 2100 of course :p |
| 17:17 |
Krock |
C:\Programme\cmake\bin>cmake --version |
| 17:17 |
Krock |
cmake version 3.0.0 |
| 17:18 |
Krock |
est31 ^ |
| 17:18 |
est31 |
Etzos, thats our XP user :) |
| 17:18 |
Calinou |
3.2.3 is easy to get on Windows |
| 17:18 |
Krock |
Don't abuse my nick for linking it to Win 5.1 |
| 17:18 |
Calinou |
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=cmake |
| 17:18 |
Calinou |
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=cmake |
| 17:19 |
Calinou |
you can see the versions shipped in both Debian and Ubuntu there ^ |
| 17:19 |
Calinou |
we don't need to support CMake < 2.8.7 |
| 17:19 |
Calinou |
wheezy ships 2.8.9, precise ships 2.8.7 |
| 17:19 |
est31 |
good then |
| 17:20 |
* est31 |
wonders whether cmake on precise supports c++11... |
| 17:20 |
est31 |
err llvm* |
| 17:20 |
Etzos |
est31: Why wouldn't it work? |
| 17:21 |
est31 |
nice nice it supports c++11 |
| 17:21 |
est31 |
clang 3.0 has good c++11 adoption |
| 17:21 |
est31 |
so people with older ubuntu, can use clang now to compile |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
we could default to Clang |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
AssaultCube does that already |
| 17:22 |
est31 |
**we can upgrade to c++11 without losing users** |
| 17:22 |
Krock |
*cough* |
| 17:22 |
est31 |
precise users* |
| 17:22 |
est31 |
Krock, you use msvc right? |
| 17:22 |
Krock |
yes |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
And if you're gonna use C++11, please put those things into #ifdefs, I'd like to be able to compile Minetest for the other win xp users |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
if there are any |
| 17:24 |
Calinou |
just use mingw :P |
| 17:25 |
Krock |
Calinou, M$ windows works best with M$ compiled applications |
| 17:25 |
Calinou |
it still works really well with mingw |
| 17:25 |
Calinou |
and doesn't bother you to register |
| 17:26 |
Krock |
blame profit |
| 17:26 |
Krock |
register...? |
| 17:26 |
est31 |
so that you get MSVC for free |
| 17:26 |
Krock |
AFAIK, I didn't register and just used a key from somewhere |
| 17:27 |
Krock |
ssht |
| 17:28 |
Calinou |
telnett |
| 17:28 |
est31 |
netcatt |
| 17:28 |
Etzos |
Speaking of Windows, my cmake changes should also have the added benefit of showing the non-compiled source files in VisualStudio and QtCreator. |
| 17:29 |
Krock |
What about outdated, compiled files? |
| 17:29 |
est31 |
go on make a PR then. |
| 17:29 |
Krock |
^ great idea, realize your thoughts |
| 17:30 |
Etzos |
est31: It's not done yet. I just wanted to see if I could safely increase the cmake version. |
| 17:33 |
est31 |
k |
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| 18:56 |
Megaf |
folks, luacontrollers still active even if nobody is online |
| 18:56 |
Megaf |
and they are keeping the region active |
| 18:57 |
Megaf |
est31: 2015-06-09 14:43:10: ACTION[ServerThread]: Megaf leaves game. List of players: |
| 18:57 |
Megaf |
2015-06-09 14:43:16: ACTION[ServerThread]: sin takes stuff from chest at (45,12,-523) |
| 18:57 |
Megaf |
est31: I did not highlight you, sorry, it was my client Oo |
| 18:57 |
Megaf |
anyway, connected to that chest is some autocrafters and filters |
| 18:58 |
est31 |
do you have technic installed on the server? |
| 19:15 |
Megaf |
nope |
| 19:15 |
Megaf |
mesecons and pipeworks |
| 20:02 |
est31 |
pushing in 5 minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest_game/commit/f09ae11e8959e2d751bef3ee930bf678f7164e1d |
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est31 |
pushed |
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| 22:28 |
est31 |
why has intlGUIEditBox been removed? |
| 22:49 |
kahrl |
est31: I guess #1166 |
| 22:49 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1166 -- Does not build with Irrlicht 1.9 (svn) and Freetype enabled |
| 22:56 |
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| 22:58 |
est31 |
kahrl, I guess we have to re-add it if we want to have proper entry of special characters in formspec? |
| 22:59 |
est31 |
fixing the bug ofc |
| 22:59 |
kahrl |
might be the only option, since there's no good way to subclass an irrlicht gui element |
| 23:02 |
kahrl |
another way could be something with a global event handler, but that's probably incredibly hacky |
| 23:02 |
est31 |
but 1.9 still isnt released |
| 23:03 |
est31 |
they develop even slower than us |
| 23:12 |
kahrl |
well, I think we should strive to be 1.9 compatible if at all possible |
| 23:13 |
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| 23:13 |
kahrl |
I had an annoying problem recently where I wanted to compile minetest 0.3.2 (for some map compatibility testing) |
| 23:13 |
kahrl |
but I couldn't because it doesn't compile with irrlicht 1.8.1 |
| 23:14 |
kahrl |
(and my distro doesn't provide packages for irrlicht 1.7.* anymore) |
| 23:14 |
kahrl |
I guess I could've compiled 1.7 myself but I didn't care enough |
| 23:16 |
est31 |
perhaps somebody who has compiled 1.9 themselves can tell |
| 23:16 |
est31 |
and give a fix |
| 23:21 |
kahrl |
does intlGUIEditBox need to be a subclass of IGUIEditBox? could it be simply a subclass of IGUIElement? |
| 23:41 |
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| 23:47 |
paramat |
hi hmmmmm please could you review the implementation of noise defined biome blend if you have time later? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2764 |
