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Message |
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| 01:19 |
ShadowNinja |
Comments? I've got 12 pulls, 5 of them have 0 comments: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls/ShadowNinja |
| 01:35 |
VanessaE_ |
I've been using pull #943 for several months now |
| 01:36 |
VanessaE_ |
no problems with it except that it causes a mild FPS drop with the explosion of particles, but that's because minetest's particles method is stupid |
| 01:36 |
VanessaE_ |
(see also, jin_xi's irrlicht particles work) |
| 02:13 |
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| 05:35 |
sfan5 |
,tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android |
| 05:35 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 05:35 |
sfan5 |
!tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android |
| 05:36 |
sfan5 |
.tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android |
| 05:36 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 05:36 |
sfan5 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 05:36 |
sfan5 |
ShadowNinja: how do I use HLuaBot? |
| 05:52 |
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| 09:16 |
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| 09:16 |
TriBlade9 |
Is anyone on/active/awake at this hour? |
| 09:18 |
TriBlade9 |
Just wondering where GameScripting->loadScript() is defined. scripting_game.cpp doesn't seem to have it as far as I can tell. |
| 09:20 |
TriBlade9 |
Nvm, found it in s_base.cpp. Boy, now I remember why I hate C++. |
| 09:20 |
kahrl |
TriBlade9: script/cpp_api/s_base.cpp |
| 09:20 |
TriBlade9 |
ninja'd :P |
| 09:20 |
TriBlade9 |
Thanks though |
| 09:20 |
kahrl |
hehe :P |
| 09:20 |
TriBlade9 |
Before you yell at me, I'm attempting to run some test mods with the duktape JS engine. |
| 09:20 |
TriBlade9 |
After about 8 years of not writing a line of C or C++ x] |
| 09:21 |
TriBlade9 |
I've seen the logs of people discussing V8, they pretty much ended along the lines of "If you want it, do it yourself, then we can talk." |
| 09:22 |
kahrl |
sounds like a big project :) |
| 09:22 |
kahrl |
assuming you want to be able to call the whole API |
| 09:22 |
TriBlade9 |
Nah |
| 09:22 |
TriBlade9 |
Just get a basic file or two to load |
| 09:22 |
TriBlade9 |
My C++ skills are way too small |
| 09:23 |
TriBlade9 |
I can't use V8 due to China's google-blocking ... |
| 09:23 |
TriBlade9 |
But duktape is quite simple, with comparable performance to plain Lua (Without JIT) |
| 09:23 |
TriBlade9 |
If only C++ wasn't so hard to read >:U |
| 09:25 |
kahrl |
if you're looking for more functions, I used grep -R to find loadScript |
| 09:26 |
TriBlade9 |
Orite |
| 09:26 |
kahrl |
(or you can use ctags or some IDE solution) |
| 09:26 |
TriBlade9 |
I always under-estimate the command line... |
| 09:26 |
TriBlade9 |
I use Geany as an IDE, not much there for C/C++ support |
| 09:27 |
TriBlade9 |
Uggh, C++ suddenly seems like a foreign language |
| 09:43 |
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| 10:04 |
Megaf |
sfan5: this is epic \_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 10:09 |
TriBlade9 |
What is epic Megaf? |
| 10:09 |
Megaf |
this guy -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 10:10 |
TriBlade9 |
Box-face? |
| 10:30 |
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| 13:00 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: it's ''tell <foo> <msg> |
| 13:02 |
TriBlade9 |
VanessaE... What? |
| 13:02 |
TriBlade9 |
Also, Hi |
| 13:03 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 13:04 |
VanessaE |
he was looking for the offline-message command for HLuaBot. For reasons that pass my understanding, the prefix is two apostrophes. |
| 13:04 |
TriBlade9 |
Ah. |
| 13:04 |
TriBlade9 |
You done anything with formspecs? |
| 13:04 |
VanessaE |
I suck at using formspecs. |
| 13:04 |
TriBlade9 |
Most people seem to -_- |
| 13:05 |
TriBlade9 |
IMO the formspec spec is terrible |
| 13:05 |
TriBlade9 |
Why is it a string? |
| 13:06 |
kahrl |
TriBlade9: because a table would be even worse. |
| 13:07 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: the irony of that is that many, if not most modders write their formspecs out across multiple lines. Doing it as a table isn't too far off from that. |
| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
the problem isn't the fact that it could be a table - it's the exact syntax and the naming of the keys that would be the issue I think. |
| 13:09 |
TriBlade9 |
Why not make it more like the C++ API? |
| 13:09 |
TriBlade9 |
(Assuming the c++ api is similar to Button button = new GUI::Button("TEXT"); |
| 13:09 |
TriBlade9 |
) |
| 13:09 |
TriBlade9 |
More of a MVC-based system |
| 13:22 |
VanessaE |
not sure, but I seem to remember there being a wrapper that's similar |
| 13:22 |
VanessaE |
a toolkit that sapier is working on |
| 13:24 |
TriBlade9 |
Hmm |
| 13:24 |
TriBlade9 |
What on earth is light_decode_table supposed to mean in light.cpp? |
| 13:25 |
TriBlade9 |
I have half a mind to tweak all the numbers and see what happens. |
| 13:25 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1362 |
| 13:26 |
VanessaE |
you mean this? :P |
| 13:29 |
TriBlade9 |
Pretty much VanessaE |
| 13:29 |
TriBlade9 |
Except light itself doesn't seem to travel far enough either |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel has some plans to fix that |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
hardware-assisted lighting using irrlicht light sources I guess |
| 13:31 |
TriBlade9 |
RBA has tons of plans x] |
| 13:33 |
kahrl |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6222&p=96903 (never tried it myself) |
| 13:42 |
Zeno` |
Why is light calculated using software anyway? |
| 13:43 |
TriBlade9 |
Hmm |
| 13:43 |
TriBlade9 |
What Irrlicht UI implementation does Minetest use? The stock one? |
| 13:43 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: what else would you use? |
| 13:43 |
VanessaE |
TriBlade9: stock as opposed to what? |
| 13:43 |
Zeno` |
kahrl, ummm the hardware? |
| 13:44 |
Zeno` |
like every other engine since about 1997? |
| 13:44 |
kahrl |
the server doesn't necessarily have a GPU |
| 13:44 |
TriBlade9 |
VanessaE, Irrlicht comes with a GUI library |
| 13:44 |
Zeno` |
so why is it responsible for how much light things receive? |
| 13:44 |
TriBlade9 |
I believe there are some plugins as well, and what MC uses doesn't seem to resemble the stock Irrlicht GUI |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: what about having clients send lighting calculations back to the server (on request)? |
| 13:45 |
VanessaE |
spread the load around |
| 13:45 |
Zeno` |
seriously, no software has done lighting since about 1997 |
| 13:45 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: there's not necessarily a client at the required place, and it could be hacked |
| 13:45 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: say goodbye to minetest.get_node_light and mesecons solar panels then? |
| 13:45 |
Zeno` |
I dunno why minetest does (apart from ABMs for growing stuff I guess) |
| 13:46 |
kahrl |
and light-dependent mob spawning etc. |
| 13:46 |
kahrl |
and that^ |
| 13:46 |
Zeno` |
no, not and that |
| 13:46 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: so send a request to any available client, "hey, got time to light this?" client answers yes or no. |
| 13:46 |
Zeno` |
those could be inferred |
| 13:46 |
TriBlade9 |
VanessaE: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/example005.html |
| 13:46 |
Zeno` |
have you profiled the server? |
| 13:47 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: and how would "infer" that without doing all the light calculations anyway? |
| 13:47 |
TriBlade9 |
Are we using that with a horribly ugly skin? Or something else |
| 13:47 |
kahrl |
would you* |
| 13:47 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: might be possible (again, it could be hacked), but seems very complicated |
| 13:47 |
Zeno` |
kahrl, by approximating |
| 13:47 |
Zeno` |
who CARES about hacking the client when the rendering is so slow? |
| 13:47 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: btw, "no software', I think you forgot MC? |
| 13:48 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: how would you "hack" it though? we're talking about sending back at most 512K of lighting data (before some sort of compression). |
| 13:48 |
Zeno` |
MC approximates light amounts hitting nodes |
| 13:49 |
Zeno` |
the actual light values meant for rendering are left to the hardware |
| 13:49 |
VanessaE |
Zeno`: RealBadAngel's plan is like that actually. |
| 13:49 |
VanessaE |
the problem is the server-client split |
| 13:49 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: what do you mean by approximate? |
| 13:49 |
Zeno` |
kahrl, I mean it doesn't have to be perfect |
| 13:50 |
kahrl |
if you mean the kind-of flood fill algorithm with linear decay, that's the same as minetest's |
| 13:51 |
Zeno` |
the same algorithm does not mean the same results or complexity |
| 13:51 |
kahrl |
well, yes, it does |
| 13:52 |
Zeno` |
anyway MC's memory layout is much more efficient because "node ids" and "node meta" are not hidden away in classes |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:52 |
Zeno` |
it does? How so? |
| 13:52 |
kahrl |
how not? |
| 13:52 |
Zeno` |
precision |
| 13:53 |
TriBlade9 |
What would be preferable would be for the server to know the light levels of blocks, but leave the actual rendering and visualization of the light to the client |
| 13:53 |
TriBlade9 |
Where the client only knows the node that is emitting |
| 13:53 |
Zeno` |
you can use the same general algorithm but sacrifice precision to reduce complexity |
| 13:54 |
kahrl |
well, then it's not actually the same algorithm |
| 13:54 |
kahrl |
but anyway, where does mc sacrifice precision in that algorithm? |
| 13:54 |
Zeno` |
TriBlade9, probably, but the main problem is that ALL light levels are calculated, in software, by the server |
| 13:54 |
Zeno` |
kahrl, it's exactly the same algorithm |
| 13:55 |
Zeno` |
it's like 7/2 though |
| 13:55 |
Zeno` |
MC gives an answer of 3, MT gives an answer of 3.5 |
| 13:55 |
kahrl |
I wouldn't say introsort and quicksort are the same algorithm |
| 13:55 |
kahrl |
even if they have the same general strategy |
| 13:56 |
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| 13:56 |
Zeno` |
I didn't say strategy |
| 13:57 |
Zeno` |
How to express this a different way. floats vs. double? |
| 13:58 |
kahrl |
oh, you mean like that |
| 13:58 |
Zeno` |
double vs. quad? |
| 13:58 |
kahrl |
I still don't get the difference though |
| 13:58 |
Zeno` |
yes, like that |
| 13:58 |
kahrl |
both mc and mt use 4 bit integers for light levels |
| 13:58 |
Zeno` |
do quad precision calcs and you'll see the difference if the hardware doesn't support it |
| 13:59 |
Zeno` |
anyway, none of this answers my question |
| 14:00 |
Zeno` |
Why is light calculated using software anyway? |
| 14:00 |
kahrl |
didn't we go over that? |
| 14:00 |
Zeno` |
And, please, don't tell me again that it's because all apps do it in software |
| 14:01 |
Zeno` |
No, it was never answered |
| 14:01 |
Zeno` |
Some tangent was embarked upon without addressing the question |
| 14:01 |
kahrl |
<kahrl> the server doesn't necessarily have a GPU |
| 14:02 |
Zeno` |
ok, let me change the question |
| 14:02 |
Zeno` |
Why is the server responsible for calculating lighting values used for rendering? |
| 14:07 |
kahrl |
as I said, you could move the computations to the clients perhaps |
| 14:07 |
kahrl |
it would be a lot more complicated though |
| 14:09 |
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| 14:09 |
kahrl |
what are folks doing that makes the lighting system so slow for them? it works fast enough for me |
| 14:10 |
Zeno` |
I dunno |
| 14:10 |
kahrl |
(I don't build fields full of blinky plants, though) |
| 14:10 |
Zeno` |
Everytime I profile the server though it seems that 90%+ of the CPU time is spent in calc_lighting() (or whatever the function is called) |
| 14:11 |
kahrl |
well ok, I don't use lua mapgens either |
| 14:12 |
kahrl |
or anything else that uses LuaVoxelManip:calc_lighting() |
| 14:12 |
celeron55 |
is anyone working on something at the moment in such an extent that they would like some donations? |
| 14:12 |
kahrl |
not me |
| 14:12 |
celeron55 |
i feel like shamelessly plugging into the MC hatetrain money by opening donations, but i can't really use them myself |
| 14:13 |
celeron55 |
because i don't work on MT |
| 14:14 |
celeron55 |
anyone who i don't hate and who used >10 hours to work on something MT-related last month is okay to me |
| 14:14 |
sfan5 |
not me |
| 14:14 |
celeron55 |
you'll have to provide a paypal or bitcoin or some other address to be put on the website |
| 14:16 |
Zeno` |
what about minegelds? |
| 14:16 |
VanessaE |
send all donations to me. I need to buy a new projector :P |
| 14:17 |
Zeno` |
hang on VE.. I need minegelds to power my furnaces! |
| 14:19 |
celeron55 |
well i guess i can take some myself to cover a year or two of hosting, at least that's useful even while not being very fair when so much stuff is hosted out of other people's pockets... at least it makes me a bit responsible for the website |
| 14:20 |
sfan5 |
maybe xyz wants some? |
| 14:20 |
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| 14:20 |
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| 14:20 |
celeron55 |
i have asked, he has never wanted |
| 14:21 |
celeron55 |
i kind of respect it that nobody wants any; it's handy because with no money there's less responsibility too |
| 14:22 |
celeron55 |
but on the other hand money is handy sometimes |
| 14:25 |
sfan5 |
"[...]| PayPal-Donations: fuslvz-donations sigqu.it |[...]" if you have some spare drop some money there; it's the (free and only for trusted people) hosting service that currently runs servers.minetest.net |
| 14:26 |
celeron55 |
how much do they need |
| 14:26 |
sfan5 |
I dunno |
| 14:27 |
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| 14:31 |
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| 14:32 |
celeron55 |
i'll modify the donation page a lot and see what happens |
| 14:43 |
sfan5 |
the new page seems to make it a bit clearer who to donate to |
| 14:44 |
celeron55 |
i made the page a lot simpler and just state the minimal required information: http://minetest.net/donate |
| 14:44 |
celeron55 |
also, i want to generally call them "tips" to make it clearer that we are not some kind of charity |
| 14:45 |
celeron55 |
it kind of implies it's partly some kind of personal income |
| 14:45 |
sfan5 |
the coffe jug is a bit displaced |
| 14:45 |
sfan5 |
over the <hr/> |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
maybe now |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
it's still terrible, maybe i'll just remove it completely from the page |
| 14:46 |
sfan5 |
did you change anything |
| 14:46 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 14:46 |
sfan5 |
it's still over the <hr> |
| 14:46 |
VanessaE |
put it back |
| 14:47 |
celeron55 |
well now there is no coffee mug |
| 14:47 |
VanessaE |
the page needs something there. |
| 14:47 |
celeron55 |
welp |
| 14:47 |
celeron55 |
done |
| 14:47 |
celeron55 |
i declare it being fine now |
| 14:48 |
celeron55 |
if someone wants money, /msg me and i will add you on the page if you don't seem completely malicious and selfish |
| 14:48 |
celeron55 |
and incompetent |
| 14:50 |
sfan5 |
top: -2em; left: 2.75em; position: relative; on the mug corrects it for me |
| 14:50 |
celeron55 |
it's impossible to do that because it's dokuwiki and that would be a global style |
| 14:50 |
sfan5 |
like the upper left edge of the mug is at the "." of "make sure to check those out." |
| 14:50 |
sfan5 |
hm :/ |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
for me it sits below "those out." |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
the bottom of the mug sits on the <hr> at the bottom, as if the <hr> forms a tabletop |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
(chromium 37) |
| 14:51 |
sfan5 |
on the <hr> ?? |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
mmhmm |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
screenshot incoming |
| 14:52 |
celeron55 |
i moved it to bottom center |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2009152014%20-%2010%3a52%3a29%20AM.png |
| 14:53 |
celeron55 |
it's weird but at least it isn't trying to fight with the text |
| 14:54 |
sfan5 |
how it looked for me: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/IolakUDSS765.png |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: sometimes life was easier with plain old tables and CSS :P |
| 14:54 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: that's how it looked for me |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:06 |
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| 15:18 |
kahrl |
sfan5: any preferences for httpd and database backend I should try to install weblate with? nginx/postgres? |
| 15:19 |
kahrl |
seems to be going smoothly so far, btw. |
| 15:19 |
sfan5 |
kahrl: nginx + postgres |
| 15:19 |
sfan5 |
or any other db server that doesn't get in my way |
| 15:19 |
kahrl |
alright |
| 15:20 |
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| 15:20 |
kahrl |
well, I only have admin experience with mysql, so I can't really say |
| 15:32 |
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| 16:17 |
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| 16:23 |
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| 16:35 |
celeron55 |
postgresql all the way |
| 16:35 |
celeron55 |
mysql is kind of the php of databases |
| 16:47 |
hmmmm |
what is your opinion on Cassandra and ElasticSearch |
| 16:56 |
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| 17:03 |
jin_xi |
soo, anyone with shaders experience? what kind of error does this look like? wrong transforms or plain wrong? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7NDuJ5iRI |
| 17:06 |
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| 17:06 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: haven't tried or thought about those, i'm not that much of a database guy |
| 17:06 |
celeron55 |
do you have an opinion about their usefulness? |
| 17:07 |
hmmmm |
not too much. it's what the "industry" is using these days, however |
| 17:09 |
hmmmm |
clearly not good choices to back minetest maps. they're distributed and intended for large datasets |
| 17:34 |
sfan5 |
hmmmm: the .mts format is inefficient for exporting a large number of nodes |
| 17:36 |
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| 17:36 |
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| 17:41 |
sapier |
seems we've got a new enemy to deal with, now we're facing full microsoft market power :-/ |
| 17:42 |
proller |
they start kill all mt commiters |
| 17:42 |
proller |
one by one |
| 17:42 |
proller |
sapier, you first! |
| 17:43 |
Amaz |
proller, I think they would want to kill off the commiters to forks first! :P |
| 17:43 |
sapier |
well "free" is way more dangerous to microsoft then "test" so most likely you're gonna be first proĺler ;-P |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:34 |
* Krock |
wonders when or how cut-off borders of mapblocks could be solved |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
ok guys, how about that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_rP-f6VCY&feature=youtu.be |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:58 |
sfan5 |
RealBadAngel: looks good |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
this time insted of modyfing vertex light for selected tiles i made a separate mesh based on selection boxes |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: now THAT looks good |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
ah, multi-node too |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
good edal |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
deal |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:08 |
jin_xi |
RealBadAngel: +1 very nice |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
by the way, the main site's traffic is looking like this: http://imgur.com/rapDmDa |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
let's say there's plenty of interest at the moment 8) |
| 19:08 |
sfan5 |
everyone please vote for this ;) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1635 |
| 19:09 |
sfan5 |
wow |
| 19:09 |
sfan5 |
thats much traffic |
| 19:09 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, and how about you? do you like such selection boxes? |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
the box is too blue and i don't like it that when you point a thing, it's harder to see it than when you don't point at it |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
contrast goes down |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
can you make a selection thing that increases contrast instead of decreasing it? |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
that would make the most sense really |
| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
i can raise the contrast of the node inside halo mesh for that |
| 19:17 |
RealBadAngel |
node atm is untouched and the mesh is blended with TRANSPARENT_ADD_COLOR |
| 19:17 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, color is configureable, you can make it any color you want |
| 19:18 |
RealBadAngel |
i just like blue ;) |
| 19:27 |
casimir |
That selection looks very good. |
| 19:27 |
casimir |
Does it use the same color setting as for selection boxes? |
| 19:29 |
casimir |
And what about the amount of transparency? Is there an extra setting for that? Because ingame you probably would like it to be more discrete |
| 19:29 |
casimir |
. |
| 19:32 |
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| 19:34 |
RealBadAngel |
casimir, this is mesh, it uses textures |
| 19:35 |
RealBadAngel |
on video you can see it using all blue one |
| 19:36 |
RealBadAngel |
so your game or texture pack could change it to whatever color you would like to |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
also you can use animated textures with some sparkles if you wish to make it more "holographic" |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
just an idea |
| 19:37 |
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| 19:39 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_rP-f6VCY&feature=youtu.be |
| 19:39 |
RealBadAngel |
whats your opinion? |
| 19:40 |
PilzAdam |
why is there water in the tree? |
| 19:41 |
casimir |
Oh, that sounds useful. |
| 19:45 |
salamanderrake |
probably should use a box out line instead of the entire area filled in with blue |
| 19:46 |
RealBadAngel |
salamanderrake, lines you do have already |
| 19:46 |
salamanderrake |
oh ok |
| 19:46 |
salamanderrake |
have not played in a long time |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
selection boxes are made with lines, this is meant to look like that |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
and a option to choose from ofc, propably default on android devices |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, water? lol |
| 19:54 |
kahrl |
heh, guess what error I got when installing weblate |
| 19:55 |
jin_xi |
404 |
| 19:55 |
PenguinDad |
kahrl: translation errors? |
| 19:55 |
kahrl |
nope |
| 19:55 |
kahrl |
sadly nope |
| 19:56 |
kahrl |
502 Bad Gateway |
| 19:56 |
celeron55 |
does weblate with nginx use a reverse proxy setup? |
| 19:57 |
celeron55 |
that's like the most common error when doing those 8) |
| 19:57 |
kahrl |
yeah, something with uwsgi I think |
| 20:09 |
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| 20:21 |
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| 20:25 |
kahrl |
ugh |
| 20:25 |
kahrl |
whatever I try, upstart won't start uwsgi |
| 20:26 |
kahrl |
and the weblate installation instructions silently assume I know where I have to put the files they spew at me |
| 20:26 |
iqualfragile |
why would you use upstart? |
| 20:26 |
kahrl |
iqualfragile: because servers.minetest.net runs ubuntu 14.04 |
| 20:26 |
iqualfragile |
uh |
| 20:29 |
kahrl |
lmao, the uwsgi tutorial for nginx+django recommends to use /etc/rc.local |
| 20:29 |
celeron55 |
upstart is pretty good in my opinion |
| 20:30 |
celeron55 |
too bad it's a temporary fad in this madness of init systems |
| 20:30 |
kahrl |
so much for the elaborate /etc/uwsgi/apps-{available,enabled} system that ubuntu install |
| 20:30 |
kahrl |
installs* |
| 20:33 |
kahrl |
I think the fact that ubuntu sometimes uses the old /etc/rc*.d and some other times /etc/init etc. is prettu confusing |
| 20:33 |
kahrl |
but yeah, other than that it's pretty good |
| 20:33 |
kahrl |
pretty* |
| 20:38 |
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| 20:38 |
kahrl |
oh |
| 20:38 |
kahrl |
apparently files in /etc/uwsgi/apps-enabled are ignored unless they end in .ini |
| 20:39 |
kahrl |
that's pretty dumb in opinion |
| 20:39 |
kahrl |
but meh |
| 20:39 |
kahrl |
in my*, I can't type today :P |
| 20:54 |
kahrl |
great... > from django.db import models, migrations > ImportError: cannot import name migrations |
| 20:54 |
kahrl |
these are the times when I wish python was statically compiled |
| 20:58 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: what did you try? |
| 20:59 |
kahrl |
iqualfragile: well |
| 20:59 |
kahrl |
I noticed that uwsgi won't run because the tables for weblate are not in the database yet |
| 20:59 |
iqualfragile |
i think migrations are a feature that was added in the latest django version |
| 20:59 |
kahrl |
so I did a manage.py syncdb |
| 21:00 |
kahrl |
which added some tables, but not all of them, and it told me the rest need to be migrated (for whatever reason) |
| 21:00 |
kahrl |
so I ran manage.py migrate |
| 21:00 |
sfan5 |
kahrl: I use /etc/init.d for upstart on servers.minetest.net |
| 21:01 |
sfan5 |
kahrl: http://sprunge.us/OXad?sh that works good enough for me |
| 21:03 |
kahrl |
sfan5: I got it to run now, but the script it's running is missing some tables so it bails out |
| 21:05 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: which django version are you using? |
| 21:06 |
kahrl |
https://gist.github.com/kahrl/35ab89659c223d74b000 |
| 21:06 |
kahrl |
iqualfragile: 1.6.1 |
| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
It sounds like this is going to be a PITA |
| 21:06 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: was aded in 1.7 irrc |
| 21:06 |
iqualfragile |
(migrations) |
| 21:07 |
kahrl |
weblate supposedly works with 1.6 though... |
| 21:08 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/releases/1.7/ |
| 21:08 |
kahrl |
is it available in the ubuntu repos? |
| 21:09 |
iqualfragile |
no idea |
| 21:09 |
Megaf |
sapier: have you changed anything on the server side on the last week? |
| 21:09 |
Megaf |
now Im getting up to 104 seconds of lag |
| 21:09 |
Megaf |
it went from 3 seconds avarege to 40 seconds avarage |
| 21:09 |
Megaf |
and Im not the only one with those kind of numbers |
| 21:10 |
Megaf |
these* |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
megaf no I didn't change anything for some weeks |
| 21:11 |
Megaf |
I wonder whats going on then |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
ok I did a change in connection but that's an output for a case where an assert is caused afterwards ... guess you'd have noticed that prior the lag ;-) |
| 21:12 |
kahrl |
man, I hate frameworks so much |
| 21:13 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: django is actually quite a nice framework |
| 21:13 |
iqualfragile |
saves you lots of work |
| 21:13 |
kahrl |
iqualfragile: but most web applications just pile framework on framework on framework on django |
| 21:14 |
kahrl |
(or another base, obviously) |
| 21:14 |
iqualfragile |
to fix your problem i would recommend entering the depths of dll-hell and create a virtual environment |
| 21:14 |
kahrl |
I think it might actually be fixable by installing an older version of social-auth |
| 21:14 |
kahrl |
because that's where the exception is coming from |
| 21:15 |
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| 21:15 |
sapier |
there's been basicaly no basic change for about 2 weeks now Ian I doubt the voxelmanip changes can cause lag too |
| 21:15 |
kahrl |
the fun part is to find out which version ;) |
| 21:15 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: whats your endziel? |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
so any issue causing lag was there before. Hmm maybe lag is map related or related to some mechanism mods started to use or use way more frequent? It'd not be first time for mods to cause lag |
| 21:16 |
kahrl |
iqualfragile: install a weblate for minetest |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
megaf can you try mod profiling on your laggy server? |
| 21:16 |
kahrl |
iqualfragile: not the one that will end up in production, but make the installation reproducible enough so that I can tell sfan5 how to do it |
| 21:17 |
Megaf |
sapier: I tried, but I dont know how to use that |
| 21:17 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: ah, ok |
| 21:17 |
iqualfragile |
i read weblate and thought it would be another framework |
| 21:18 |
kahrl |
python-social-auth doesn't seem to be an optional dependency for weblate either :( |
| 21:19 |
kahrl |
who needs facebook authentication really? |
| 21:19 |
kahrl |
although github integration would be kind of neat |
| 21:24 |
kahrl |
pip uninstall is not a thing according to man pip? nice! |
| 21:26 |
iqualfragile |
kahrl: its mainly used in virtenvs, you can just delete the virtenv |
| 21:26 |
sfan5 |
wasn't it 'pip remove'? |
| 21:27 |
kahrl |
what's a virtenv? http://virtenv.sourceforge.net/ doesn't seem to be it? |
| 21:27 |
kahrl |
sfan5: pip uninstall works |
| 21:28 |
iqualfragile |
http://virtualenv.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ |
| 21:29 |
kahrl |
seems even more complicated than this whole mess already is |
| 21:29 |
kahrl |
I want my CGI scripts back! |
| 21:36 |
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| 21:59 |
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| 21:59 |
kahrl |
almost yay |
| 21:59 |
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| 22:00 |
kahrl |
I downgraded python-social-auth to 0.1.26 and now it migrated a lot more than before |
| 22:00 |
kahrl |
https://gist.github.com/kahrl/330ebe3761f0d0b62c3c |
| 22:00 |
kahrl |
now enough tables are migrated that uwsgi is no longer complaining and I can finally access weblate :D |
| 22:01 |
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| 22:02 |
kahrl |
yay |
| 22:02 |
kahrl |
did a syncdb and then the remaining migrations worked |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
but can you actually *translate* yet? ;) |
| 22:02 |
kahrl |
heh, nope |
| 22:02 |
kahrl |
that's for another day |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
[09-15 17:59] <friti> The crash upon checking online mods repo is a known bug, right? |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
[09-15 17:59] <friti> Nope, Linux, Kubuntu to be exact. |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
[09-15 18:07] <friti> john_minetest: http://pastebin.com/ejyXsSJq |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
[09-15 18:10] <friti> I got it from the ubuntu repo, and it's version 4.10 |
| 22:22 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: yeah, trying -dev is a good idea there (like almost always) |
| 22:23 |
kahrl |
at least "C++ exception" would be replaced by a more meaningful message |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
[09-15 18:21] <friti> Well, the version from the PPA does NOT crash. YAY! |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
figured I'd echo it over here anyway |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
less traffic, easier for the person who maintains that package to notice and perhaps update it |
| 22:24 |
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| 22:24 |
kahrl |
I think we should do a 0.4.11 soon |
| 22:24 |
kahrl |
that'd notify them :P |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 22:25 |
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| 22:27 |
Megaf |
kahrl: make it stable and noty me, then I will switch from git to stable |
| 22:53 |
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| 22:55 |
Megaf |
notify* |
| 23:23 |
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| 23:27 |
kahrl |
ehh, I give up |
| 23:27 |
kahrl |
can't get into the admin interface. |
| 23:27 |
kahrl |
went over the django FAQ and http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11894765/unable-log-in-to-the-django-admin-page-with-a-valid-username-and-password |
| 23:27 |
kahrl |
still no luck. |
| 23:27 |
RealBadAngel |
kahrl, for 0.4.11 i want tile switching be finished, for that we did protocol bump |
| 23:28 |
RealBadAngel |
releasing next stable without a way to use it is pointless |
| 23:28 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: I wasn't involved in that at all so I have no clue |
| 23:28 |
RealBadAngel |
its about special tiles count being raised to 6 |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
it forced protocol bump |
| 23:29 |
RealBadAngel |
i made this to be able to easily switch between two full set of tiles for a node |
| 23:29 |
kahrl |
is it still WIP? |
| 23:30 |
VanessaE |
wat |
| 23:30 |
VanessaE |
I thought that went in already? |
| 23:30 |
RealBadAngel |
kind of, patch is hanging around |
| 23:30 |
RealBadAngel |
it is being blocked by my current work |
| 23:30 |
RealBadAngel |
im working on the very same files and functions |
| 23:30 |
kahrl |
in any case, I didn't mean "feature freeze nao" |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
patch was a few liner to make the feature complete, but things went as usual |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
the next time we "feature freeze" it needs to last WAY longer than a week or even two |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
it needs to be at least a month |
| 23:31 |
RealBadAngel |
getting anything merged this days is a miracle |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
and none of this "well, we want to get the release out by X date" stuff either |
| 23:32 |
VanessaE |
every time a deadline gets set, it either gets delayed, or the release gets hurried out with some glitch that ends up pissing people off |
| 23:32 |
VanessaE |
(and when it does get delayed, THAT always seems to piss someone else off :) ) |
| 23:32 |
RealBadAngel |
and waiting for 3 lines of code to be merged for a few weeks and blocking any further work is just insane |
| 23:34 |
RealBadAngel |
and when i rebase the things into one pull i hear voices "hey it shouldnt be here, its another stuff" |
| 23:34 |
RealBadAngel |
even when code is in the very same function, line next to another |
| 23:35 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: keep in mind that we'll have an influx of new people who have little clue about compiling (and might be scared of inofficial builds) |
| 23:35 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: indeed, I've been warning of this surge for a little while now |
| 23:35 |
VanessaE |
and we're starting to see it in #minetest as you've noticed. |
| 23:36 |
kahrl |
well, yeah :P |
| 23:40 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: well, it happens to every dev |
| 23:40 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: any ideas how to fix it? |
| 23:41 |
RealBadAngel |
im not sure |
| 23:42 |
RealBadAngel |
but one thing i know is that mt lately is not moving forward |
| 23:42 |
kahrl |
I agree |
| 23:42 |
VanessaE |
certainly not in places where it's visible to end-users or modders, generally. |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:42 |
kahrl |
I think we should try iqual's suggestion of a scheduled weekly meeting |
| 23:43 |
kahrl |
and if only one person shows up, that person has the right to merge things as he pleases mercilessly |
| 23:43 |
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| 23:43 |
* VanessaE |
hands kahrl a stick and two blocks of wood (to craft a gavel and its sounding block) |
| 23:44 |
VanessaE |
^^^ meaning, who's gonna lead such a meeting? |
| 23:45 |
kahrl |
I doesn't really matter, as long as everyone is focused on the goal of the meeting: merging as many patches as possible (or discussing issues if there's nothing to merge) |
| 23:46 |
kahrl |
one day sapier and I did that and it was quite effective; none of us was really "leading" |
| 23:46 |
kahrl |
well, to be more precise, the goal is merging/rejecting/improving patches |
| 23:47 |
kahrl |
just getting the number of open pull requests down would help a lot to increase productivity, I assume |
| 23:48 |
VanessaE |
oh you mean that big merge fest :) |
| 23:48 |
kahrl |
(that doesn't mean that we should close pull requests just because they're not ready yet) |
| 23:48 |
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| 23:48 |
VanessaE |
it's certainly an effective idea, but is it sustainable? |
| 23:49 |
kahrl |
that's what I'm wondering about |
| 23:49 |
kahrl |
I think it would at least be an immediate improvement |
| 23:49 |
VanessaE |
possibly |
| 23:52 |
kahrl |
this might be a bad idea, but in case the donations do come in as c55 predicted, perhaps a small amount of money could go to every dev that attends this meeting? |
| 23:53 |
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| 23:57 |
kahrl |
I guess the meeting could be integrated with some bot help |
| 23:58 |
kahrl |
after discussing each issue, there could be a formal vote where each dev does /msg HLuaBot + or 0 or - or C |
| 23:58 |
kahrl |
+ meaning merge, 0 meaning abstention, - don't merge now, C close |
| 23:58 |
VanessaE |
might not be a bad idea, per se. certainly a good incentive, but the question then becomes "how do you divvy up the funds?" |
| 23:58 |
kahrl |
then HLuaBot would print the results to the channel as well as the github issue |
| 23:59 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: well, uniformly |
