Time Nick Message 01:19 ShadowNinja Comments? I've got 12 pulls, 5 of them have 0 comments: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls/ShadowNinja 01:35 VanessaE_ I've been using pull #943 for several months now 01:36 VanessaE_ no problems with it except that it causes a mild FPS drop with the explosion of particles, but that's because minetest's particles method is stupid 01:36 VanessaE_ (see also, jin_xi's irrlicht particles work) 05:35 sfan5 ,tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android 05:35 sfan5 hm 05:35 sfan5 !tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android 05:36 sfan5 .tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android 05:36 sfan5 hm 05:36 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 05:36 sfan5 ShadowNinja: how do I use HLuaBot? 09:16 TriBlade9 Is anyone on/active/awake at this hour? 09:18 TriBlade9 Just wondering where GameScripting->loadScript() is defined. scripting_game.cpp doesn't seem to have it as far as I can tell. 09:20 TriBlade9 Nvm, found it in s_base.cpp. Boy, now I remember why I hate C++. 09:20 kahrl TriBlade9: script/cpp_api/s_base.cpp 09:20 TriBlade9 ninja'd :P 09:20 TriBlade9 Thanks though 09:20 kahrl hehe :P 09:20 TriBlade9 Before you yell at me, I'm attempting to run some test mods with the duktape JS engine. 09:20 TriBlade9 After about 8 years of not writing a line of C or C++ x] 09:21 TriBlade9 I've seen the logs of people discussing V8, they pretty much ended along the lines of "If you want it, do it yourself, then we can talk." 09:22 kahrl sounds like a big project :) 09:22 kahrl assuming you want to be able to call the whole API 09:22 TriBlade9 Nah 09:22 TriBlade9 Just get a basic file or two to load 09:22 TriBlade9 My C++ skills are way too small 09:23 TriBlade9 I can't use V8 due to China's google-blocking ... 09:23 TriBlade9 But duktape is quite simple, with comparable performance to plain Lua (Without JIT) 09:23 TriBlade9 If only C++ wasn't so hard to read >:U 09:25 kahrl if you're looking for more functions, I used grep -R to find loadScript 09:26 TriBlade9 Orite 09:26 kahrl (or you can use ctags or some IDE solution) 09:26 TriBlade9 I always under-estimate the command line... 09:26 TriBlade9 I use Geany as an IDE, not much there for C/C++ support 09:27 TriBlade9 Uggh, C++ suddenly seems like a foreign language 10:04 Megaf sfan5: this is epic \_(ツ)_/¯ 10:09 TriBlade9 What is epic Megaf? 10:09 Megaf this guy -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 10:10 TriBlade9 Box-face? 13:00 VanessaE sfan5: it's ''tell 13:02 TriBlade9 VanessaE... What? 13:02 TriBlade9 Also, Hi 13:03 VanessaE hi 13:04 VanessaE he was looking for the offline-message command for HLuaBot. For reasons that pass my understanding, the prefix is two apostrophes. 13:04 TriBlade9 Ah. 13:04 TriBlade9 You done anything with formspecs? 13:04 VanessaE I suck at using formspecs. 13:04 TriBlade9 Most people seem to -_- 13:05 TriBlade9 IMO the formspec spec is terrible 13:05 TriBlade9 Why is it a string? 13:06 kahrl TriBlade9: because a table would be even worse. 13:07 VanessaE kahrl: the irony of that is that many, if not most modders write their formspecs out across multiple lines. Doing it as a table isn't too far off from that. 13:08 VanessaE the problem isn't the fact that it could be a table - it's the exact syntax and the naming of the keys that would be the issue I think. 13:09 TriBlade9 Why not make it more like the C++ API? 13:09 TriBlade9 (Assuming the c++ api is similar to Button button = new GUI::Button("TEXT"); 13:09 TriBlade9 ) 13:09 TriBlade9 More of a MVC-based system 13:22 VanessaE not sure, but I seem to remember there being a wrapper that's similar 13:22 VanessaE a toolkit that sapier is working on 13:24 TriBlade9 Hmm 13:24 TriBlade9 What on earth is light_decode_table supposed to mean in light.cpp? 13:25 TriBlade9 I have half a mind to tweak all the numbers and see what happens. 13:25 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1362 13:26 VanessaE you mean this? :P 13:29 TriBlade9 Pretty much VanessaE 13:29 TriBlade9 Except light itself doesn't seem to travel far enough either 13:29 VanessaE RealBadAngel has some plans to fix that 13:29 VanessaE hardware-assisted lighting using irrlicht light sources I guess 13:31 TriBlade9 RBA has tons of plans x] 13:33 kahrl https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6222&p=96903 (never tried it myself) 13:42 Zeno` Why is light calculated using software anyway? 13:43 TriBlade9 Hmm 13:43 TriBlade9 What Irrlicht UI implementation does Minetest use? The stock one? 13:43 kahrl Zeno`: what else would you use? 13:43 VanessaE TriBlade9: stock as opposed to what? 13:43 Zeno` kahrl, ummm the hardware? 13:44 Zeno` like every other engine since about 1997? 13:44 kahrl the server doesn't necessarily have a GPU 13:44 TriBlade9 VanessaE, Irrlicht comes with a GUI library 13:44 Zeno` so why is it responsible for how much light things receive? 13:44 TriBlade9 I believe there are some plugins as well, and what MC uses doesn't seem to resemble the stock Irrlicht GUI 13:44 VanessaE kahrl: what about having clients send lighting calculations back to the server (on request)? 13:45 VanessaE spread the load around 13:45 Zeno` seriously, no software has done lighting since about 1997 13:45 kahrl VanessaE: there's not necessarily a client at the required place, and it could be hacked 13:45 kahrl Zeno`: say goodbye to minetest.get_node_light and mesecons solar panels then? 13:45 Zeno` I dunno why minetest does (apart from ABMs for growing stuff I guess) 13:46 kahrl and light-dependent mob spawning etc. 13:46 kahrl and that^ 13:46 Zeno` no, not and that 13:46 VanessaE kahrl: so send a request to any available client, "hey, got time to light this?" client answers yes or no. 13:46 Zeno` those could be inferred 13:46 TriBlade9 VanessaE: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/example005.html 13:46 Zeno` have you profiled the server? 13:47 kahrl Zeno`: and how would "infer" that without doing all the light calculations anyway? 13:47 TriBlade9 Are we using that with a horribly ugly skin? Or something else 13:47 kahrl would you* 13:47 kahrl VanessaE: might be possible (again, it could be hacked), but seems very complicated 13:47 Zeno` kahrl, by approximating 13:47 Zeno` who CARES about hacking the client when the rendering is so slow? 13:47 kahrl Zeno`: btw, "no software', I think you forgot MC? 13:48 VanessaE kahrl: how would you "hack" it though? we're talking about sending back at most 512K of lighting data (before some sort of compression). 13:48 Zeno` MC approximates light amounts hitting nodes 13:49 Zeno` the actual light values meant for rendering are left to the hardware 13:49 VanessaE Zeno`: RealBadAngel's plan is like that actually. 13:49 VanessaE the problem is the server-client split 13:49 kahrl Zeno`: what do you mean by approximate? 13:49 Zeno` kahrl, I mean it doesn't have to be perfect 13:50 kahrl if you mean the kind-of flood fill algorithm with linear decay, that's the same as minetest's 13:51 Zeno` the same algorithm does not mean the same results or complexity 13:51 kahrl well, yes, it does 13:52 Zeno` anyway MC's memory layout is much more efficient because "node ids" and "node meta" are not hidden away in classes 13:52 Zeno` it does? How so? 13:52 kahrl how not? 13:52 Zeno` precision 13:53 TriBlade9 What would be preferable would be for the server to know the light levels of blocks, but leave the actual rendering and visualization of the light to the client 13:53 TriBlade9 Where the client only knows the node that is emitting 13:53 Zeno` you can use the same general algorithm but sacrifice precision to reduce complexity 13:54 kahrl well, then it's not actually the same algorithm 13:54 kahrl but anyway, where does mc sacrifice precision in that algorithm? 13:54 Zeno` TriBlade9, probably, but the main problem is that ALL light levels are calculated, in software, by the server 13:54 Zeno` kahrl, it's exactly the same algorithm 13:55 Zeno` it's like 7/2 though 13:55 Zeno` MC gives an answer of 3, MT gives an answer of 3.5 13:55 kahrl I wouldn't say introsort and quicksort are the same algorithm 13:55 kahrl even if they have the same general strategy 13:56 Zeno` I didn't say strategy 13:57 Zeno` How to express this a different way. floats vs. double? 13:58 kahrl oh, you mean like that 13:58 Zeno` double vs. quad? 13:58 kahrl I still don't get the difference though 13:58 Zeno` yes, like that 13:58 kahrl both mc and mt use 4 bit integers for light levels 13:58 Zeno` do quad precision calcs and you'll see the difference if the hardware doesn't support it 13:59 Zeno` anyway, none of this answers my question 14:00 Zeno` Why is light calculated using software anyway? 14:00 kahrl didn't we go over that? 14:00 Zeno` And, please, don't tell me again that it's because all apps do it in software 14:01 Zeno` No, it was never answered 14:01 Zeno` Some tangent was embarked upon without addressing the question 14:01 kahrl the server doesn't necessarily have a GPU 14:02 Zeno` ok, let me change the question 14:02 Zeno` Why is the server responsible for calculating lighting values used for rendering? 14:07 kahrl as I said, you could move the computations to the clients perhaps 14:07 kahrl it would be a lot more complicated though 14:09 kahrl what are folks doing that makes the lighting system so slow for them? it works fast enough for me 14:10 Zeno` I dunno 14:10 kahrl (I don't build fields full of blinky plants, though) 14:10 Zeno` Everytime I profile the server though it seems that 90%+ of the CPU time is spent in calc_lighting() (or whatever the function is called) 14:11 kahrl well ok, I don't use lua mapgens either 14:12 kahrl or anything else that uses LuaVoxelManip:calc_lighting() 14:12 celeron55 is anyone working on something at the moment in such an extent that they would like some donations? 14:12 kahrl not me 14:12 celeron55 i feel like shamelessly plugging into the MC hatetrain money by opening donations, but i can't really use them myself 14:13 celeron55 because i don't work on MT 14:14 celeron55 anyone who i don't hate and who used >10 hours to work on something MT-related last month is okay to me 14:14 sfan5 not me 14:14 celeron55 you'll have to provide a paypal or bitcoin or some other address to be put on the website 14:16 Zeno` what about minegelds? 14:16 VanessaE send all donations to me. I need to buy a new projector :P 14:17 Zeno` hang on VE.. I need minegelds to power my furnaces! 14:19 celeron55 well i guess i can take some myself to cover a year or two of hosting, at least that's useful even while not being very fair when so much stuff is hosted out of other people's pockets... at least it makes me a bit responsible for the website 14:20 sfan5 maybe xyz wants some? 14:20 celeron55 i have asked, he has never wanted 14:21 celeron55 i kind of respect it that nobody wants any; it's handy because with no money there's less responsibility too 14:22 celeron55 but on the other hand money is handy sometimes 14:25 sfan5 "[...]| PayPal-Donations: fuslvz-donations@sigqu.it |[...]" if you have some spare drop some money there; it's the (free and only for trusted people) hosting service that currently runs servers.minetest.net 14:26 celeron55 how much do they need 14:26 sfan5 I dunno 14:32 celeron55 i'll modify the donation page a lot and see what happens 14:43 sfan5 the new page seems to make it a bit clearer who to donate to 14:44 celeron55 i made the page a lot simpler and just state the minimal required information: http://minetest.net/donate 14:44 celeron55 also, i want to generally call them "tips" to make it clearer that we are not some kind of charity 14:45 celeron55 it kind of implies it's partly some kind of personal income 14:45 sfan5 the coffe jug is a bit displaced 14:45 sfan5 over the
14:46 celeron55 maybe now 14:46 celeron55 it's still terrible, maybe i'll just remove it completely from the page 14:46 sfan5 did you change anything 14:46 sfan5 ? 14:46 sfan5 it's still over the
14:46 VanessaE put it back 14:47 celeron55 well now there is no coffee mug 14:47 VanessaE the page needs something there. 14:47 celeron55 welp 14:47 celeron55 done 14:47 celeron55 i declare it being fine now 14:48 celeron55 if someone wants money, /msg me and i will add you on the page if you don't seem completely malicious and selfish 14:48 celeron55 and incompetent 14:50 sfan5 top: -2em; left: 2.75em; position: relative; on the mug corrects it for me 14:50 celeron55 it's impossible to do that because it's dokuwiki and that would be a global style 14:50 sfan5 like the upper left edge of the mug is at the "." of "make sure to check those out." 14:50 sfan5 hm :/ 14:51 VanessaE for me it sits below "those out." 14:51 VanessaE the bottom of the mug sits on the
at the bottom, as if the
forms a tabletop 14:51 VanessaE (chromium 37) 14:51 sfan5 on the
?? 14:52 VanessaE mmhmm 14:52 VanessaE screenshot incoming 14:52 celeron55 i moved it to bottom center 14:52 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2009152014%20-%2010%3a52%3a29%20AM.png 14:53 celeron55 it's weird but at least it isn't trying to fight with the text 14:54 sfan5 how it looked for me: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/IolakUDSS765.png 14:54 VanessaE celeron55: sometimes life was easier with plain old tables and CSS :P 14:54 celeron55 VanessaE: that's how it looked for me 15:18 kahrl sfan5: any preferences for httpd and database backend I should try to install weblate with? nginx/postgres? 15:19 kahrl seems to be going smoothly so far, btw. 15:19 sfan5 kahrl: nginx + postgres 15:19 sfan5 or any other db server that doesn't get in my way 15:19 kahrl alright 15:20 kahrl well, I only have admin experience with mysql, so I can't really say 16:35 celeron55 postgresql all the way 16:35 celeron55 mysql is kind of the php of databases 16:47 hmmmm what is your opinion on Cassandra and ElasticSearch 17:03 jin_xi soo, anyone with shaders experience? what kind of error does this look like? wrong transforms or plain wrong? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7NDuJ5iRI 17:06 celeron55 hmmmm: haven't tried or thought about those, i'm not that much of a database guy 17:06 celeron55 do you have an opinion about their usefulness? 17:07 hmmmm not too much. it's what the "industry" is using these days, however 17:09 hmmmm clearly not good choices to back minetest maps. they're distributed and intended for large datasets 17:34 sfan5 hmmmm: the .mts format is inefficient for exporting a large number of nodes 17:41 sapier seems we've got a new enemy to deal with, now we're facing full microsoft market power :-/ 17:42 proller they start kill all mt commiters 17:42 proller one by one 17:42 proller sapier, you first! 17:43 Amaz proller, I think they would want to kill off the commiters to forks first! :P 17:43 sapier well "free" is way more dangerous to microsoft then "test" so most likely you're gonna be first proĺler ;-P 18:34 * Krock wonders when or how cut-off borders of mapblocks could be solved 18:52 RealBadAngel ok guys, how about that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_rP-f6VCY&feature=youtu.be 18:58 sfan5 RealBadAngel: looks good 19:00 RealBadAngel this time insted of modyfing vertex light for selected tiles i made a separate mesh based on selection boxes 19:00 VanessaE RealBadAngel: now THAT looks good 19:01 VanessaE ah, multi-node too 19:01 VanessaE good edal 19:01 VanessaE deal 19:08 jin_xi RealBadAngel: +1 very nice 19:08 celeron55 by the way, the main site's traffic is looking like this: http://imgur.com/rapDmDa 19:08 celeron55 let's say there's plenty of interest at the moment 8) 19:08 sfan5 everyone please vote for this ;) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1635 19:09 sfan5 wow 19:09 sfan5 thats much traffic 19:09 RealBadAngel celeron55, and how about you? do you like such selection boxes? 19:11 celeron55 the box is too blue and i don't like it that when you point a thing, it's harder to see it than when you don't point at it 19:11 celeron55 contrast goes down 19:11 celeron55 can you make a selection thing that increases contrast instead of decreasing it? 19:12 celeron55 that would make the most sense really 19:16 RealBadAngel i can raise the contrast of the node inside halo mesh for that 19:17 RealBadAngel node atm is untouched and the mesh is blended with TRANSPARENT_ADD_COLOR 19:17 RealBadAngel btw, color is configureable, you can make it any color you want 19:18 RealBadAngel i just like blue ;) 19:27 casimir That selection looks very good. 19:27 casimir Does it use the same color setting as for selection boxes? 19:29 casimir And what about the amount of transparency? Is there an extra setting for that? Because ingame you probably would like it to be more discrete 19:29 casimir . 19:34 RealBadAngel casimir, this is mesh, it uses textures 19:35 RealBadAngel on video you can see it using all blue one 19:36 RealBadAngel so your game or texture pack could change it to whatever color you would like to 19:37 RealBadAngel also you can use animated textures with some sparkles if you wish to make it more "holographic" 19:37 RealBadAngel just an idea 19:39 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_rP-f6VCY&feature=youtu.be 19:39 RealBadAngel whats your opinion? 19:40 PilzAdam why is there water in the tree? 19:41 casimir Oh, that sounds useful. 19:45 salamanderrake probably should use a box out line instead of the entire area filled in with blue 19:46 RealBadAngel salamanderrake, lines you do have already 19:46 salamanderrake oh ok 19:46 salamanderrake have not played in a long time 19:47 RealBadAngel selection boxes are made with lines, this is meant to look like that 19:48 RealBadAngel and a option to choose from ofc, propably default on android devices 19:48 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, water? lol 19:54 kahrl heh, guess what error I got when installing weblate 19:55 jin_xi 404 19:55 PenguinDad kahrl: translation errors? 19:55 kahrl nope 19:55 kahrl sadly nope 19:56 kahrl 502 Bad Gateway 19:56 celeron55 does weblate with nginx use a reverse proxy setup? 19:57 celeron55 that's like the most common error when doing those 8) 19:57 kahrl yeah, something with uwsgi I think 20:25 kahrl ugh 20:25 kahrl whatever I try, upstart won't start uwsgi 20:26 kahrl and the weblate installation instructions silently assume I know where I have to put the files they spew at me 20:26 iqualfragile why would you use upstart? 20:26 kahrl iqualfragile: because servers.minetest.net runs ubuntu 14.04 20:26 iqualfragile uh 20:29 kahrl lmao, the uwsgi tutorial for nginx+django recommends to use /etc/rc.local 20:29 celeron55 upstart is pretty good in my opinion 20:30 celeron55 too bad it's a temporary fad in this madness of init systems 20:30 kahrl so much for the elaborate /etc/uwsgi/apps-{available,enabled} system that ubuntu install 20:30 kahrl installs* 20:33 kahrl I think the fact that ubuntu sometimes uses the old /etc/rc*.d and some other times /etc/init etc. is prettu confusing 20:33 kahrl but yeah, other than that it's pretty good 20:33 kahrl pretty* 20:38 kahrl oh 20:38 kahrl apparently files in /etc/uwsgi/apps-enabled are ignored unless they end in .ini 20:39 kahrl that's pretty dumb in opinion 20:39 kahrl but meh 20:39 kahrl in my*, I can't type today :P 20:54 kahrl great... > from django.db import models, migrations > ImportError: cannot import name migrations 20:54 kahrl these are the times when I wish python was statically compiled 20:58 iqualfragile kahrl: what did you try? 20:59 kahrl iqualfragile: well 20:59 kahrl I noticed that uwsgi won't run because the tables for weblate are not in the database yet 20:59 iqualfragile i think migrations are a feature that was added in the latest django version 20:59 kahrl so I did a manage.py syncdb 21:00 kahrl which added some tables, but not all of them, and it told me the rest need to be migrated (for whatever reason) 21:00 kahrl so I ran manage.py migrate 21:00 sfan5 kahrl: I use /etc/init.d for upstart on servers.minetest.net 21:01 sfan5 kahrl: http://sprunge.us/OXad?sh that works good enough for me 21:03 kahrl sfan5: I got it to run now, but the script it's running is missing some tables so it bails out 21:05 iqualfragile kahrl: which django version are you using? 21:06 kahrl https://gist.github.com/kahrl/35ab89659c223d74b000 21:06 kahrl iqualfragile: 1.6.1 21:06 sfan5 It sounds like this is going to be a PITA 21:06 iqualfragile kahrl: was aded in 1.7 irrc 21:06 iqualfragile (migrations) 21:07 kahrl weblate supposedly works with 1.6 though... 21:08 iqualfragile kahrl: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/releases/1.7/ 21:08 kahrl is it available in the ubuntu repos? 21:09 iqualfragile no idea 21:09 Megaf sapier: have you changed anything on the server side on the last week? 21:09 Megaf now Im getting up to 104 seconds of lag 21:09 Megaf it went from 3 seconds avarege to 40 seconds avarage 21:09 Megaf and Im not the only one with those kind of numbers 21:10 Megaf these* 21:11 sapier megaf no I didn't change anything for some weeks 21:11 Megaf I wonder whats going on then 21:12 sapier ok I did a change in connection but that's an output for a case where an assert is caused afterwards ... guess you'd have noticed that prior the lag ;-) 21:12 kahrl man, I hate frameworks so much 21:13 iqualfragile kahrl: django is actually quite a nice framework 21:13 iqualfragile saves you lots of work 21:13 kahrl iqualfragile: but most web applications just pile framework on framework on framework on django 21:14 kahrl (or another base, obviously) 21:14 iqualfragile to fix your problem i would recommend entering the depths of dll-hell and create a virtual environment 21:14 kahrl I think it might actually be fixable by installing an older version of social-auth 21:14 kahrl because that's where the exception is coming from 21:15 sapier there's been basicaly no basic change for about 2 weeks now Ian I doubt the voxelmanip changes can cause lag too 21:15 kahrl the fun part is to find out which version ;) 21:15 iqualfragile kahrl: whats your endziel? 21:16 sapier so any issue causing lag was there before. Hmm maybe lag is map related or related to some mechanism mods started to use or use way more frequent? It'd not be first time for mods to cause lag 21:16 kahrl iqualfragile: install a weblate for minetest 21:16 sapier megaf can you try mod profiling on your laggy server? 21:16 kahrl iqualfragile: not the one that will end up in production, but make the installation reproducible enough so that I can tell sfan5 how to do it 21:17 Megaf sapier: I tried, but I dont know how to use that 21:17 iqualfragile kahrl: ah, ok 21:17 iqualfragile i read weblate and thought it would be another framework 21:18 kahrl python-social-auth doesn't seem to be an optional dependency for weblate either :( 21:19 kahrl who needs facebook authentication really? 21:19 kahrl although github integration would be kind of neat 21:24 kahrl pip uninstall is not a thing according to man pip? nice! 21:26 iqualfragile kahrl: its mainly used in virtenvs, you can just delete the virtenv 21:26 sfan5 wasn't it 'pip remove'? 21:27 kahrl what's a virtenv? http://virtenv.sourceforge.net/ doesn't seem to be it? 21:27 kahrl sfan5: pip uninstall works 21:28 iqualfragile http://virtualenv.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ 21:29 kahrl seems even more complicated than this whole mess already is 21:29 kahrl I want my CGI scripts back! 21:59 kahrl almost yay 22:00 kahrl I downgraded python-social-auth to 0.1.26 and now it migrated a lot more than before 22:00 kahrl https://gist.github.com/kahrl/330ebe3761f0d0b62c3c 22:00 kahrl now enough tables are migrated that uwsgi is no longer complaining and I can finally access weblate :D 22:02 kahrl yay 22:02 kahrl did a syncdb and then the remaining migrations worked 22:02 VanessaE but can you actually *translate* yet? ;) 22:02 kahrl heh, nope 22:02 kahrl that's for another day 22:15 VanessaE [09-15 17:59] The crash upon checking online mods repo is a known bug, right? 22:15 VanessaE [09-15 17:59] Nope, Linux, Kubuntu to be exact. 22:16 VanessaE [09-15 18:07] john_minetest: http://pastebin.com/ejyXsSJq 22:16 VanessaE [09-15 18:10] I got it from the ubuntu repo, and it's version 4.10 22:22 kahrl VanessaE: yeah, trying -dev is a good idea there (like almost always) 22:23 kahrl at least "C++ exception" would be replaced by a more meaningful message 22:23 VanessaE [09-15 18:21] Well, the version from the PPA does NOT crash. YAY! 22:23 VanessaE figured I'd echo it over here anyway 22:23 VanessaE less traffic, easier for the person who maintains that package to notice and perhaps update it 22:24 kahrl I think we should do a 0.4.11 soon 22:24 kahrl that'd notify them :P 22:25 VanessaE yeah 22:27 Megaf kahrl: make it stable and noty me, then I will switch from git to stable 22:55 Megaf notify* 23:27 kahrl ehh, I give up 23:27 kahrl can't get into the admin interface. 23:27 kahrl went over the django FAQ and http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11894765/unable-log-in-to-the-django-admin-page-with-a-valid-username-and-password 23:27 kahrl still no luck. 23:27 RealBadAngel kahrl, for 0.4.11 i want tile switching be finished, for that we did protocol bump 23:28 RealBadAngel releasing next stable without a way to use it is pointless 23:28 kahrl RealBadAngel: I wasn't involved in that at all so I have no clue 23:28 RealBadAngel its about special tiles count being raised to 6 23:29 RealBadAngel it forced protocol bump 23:29 RealBadAngel i made this to be able to easily switch between two full set of tiles for a node 23:29 kahrl is it still WIP? 23:30 VanessaE wat 23:30 VanessaE I thought that went in already? 23:30 RealBadAngel kind of, patch is hanging around 23:30 RealBadAngel it is being blocked by my current work 23:30 RealBadAngel im working on the very same files and functions 23:30 kahrl in any case, I didn't mean "feature freeze nao" 23:31 RealBadAngel patch was a few liner to make the feature complete, but things went as usual 23:31 VanessaE the next time we "feature freeze" it needs to last WAY longer than a week or even two 23:31 VanessaE it needs to be at least a month 23:31 RealBadAngel getting anything merged this days is a miracle 23:31 VanessaE and none of this "well, we want to get the release out by X date" stuff either 23:32 VanessaE every time a deadline gets set, it either gets delayed, or the release gets hurried out with some glitch that ends up pissing people off 23:32 VanessaE (and when it does get delayed, THAT always seems to piss someone else off :) ) 23:32 RealBadAngel and waiting for 3 lines of code to be merged for a few weeks and blocking any further work is just insane 23:34 RealBadAngel and when i rebase the things into one pull i hear voices "hey it shouldnt be here, its another stuff" 23:34 RealBadAngel even when code is in the very same function, line next to another 23:35 kahrl VanessaE: keep in mind that we'll have an influx of new people who have little clue about compiling (and might be scared of inofficial builds) 23:35 VanessaE kahrl: indeed, I've been warning of this surge for a little while now 23:35 VanessaE and we're starting to see it in #minetest as you've noticed. 23:36 kahrl well, yeah :P 23:40 kahrl RealBadAngel: well, it happens to every dev 23:40 kahrl RealBadAngel: any ideas how to fix it? 23:41 RealBadAngel im not sure 23:42 RealBadAngel but one thing i know is that mt lately is not moving forward 23:42 kahrl I agree 23:42 VanessaE certainly not in places where it's visible to end-users or modders, generally. 23:42 kahrl I think we should try iqual's suggestion of a scheduled weekly meeting 23:43 kahrl and if only one person shows up, that person has the right to merge things as he pleases mercilessly 23:43 * VanessaE hands kahrl a stick and two blocks of wood (to craft a gavel and its sounding block) 23:44 VanessaE ^^^ meaning, who's gonna lead such a meeting? 23:45 kahrl I doesn't really matter, as long as everyone is focused on the goal of the meeting: merging as many patches as possible (or discussing issues if there's nothing to merge) 23:46 kahrl one day sapier and I did that and it was quite effective; none of us was really "leading" 23:46 kahrl well, to be more precise, the goal is merging/rejecting/improving patches 23:47 kahrl just getting the number of open pull requests down would help a lot to increase productivity, I assume 23:48 VanessaE oh you mean that big merge fest :) 23:48 kahrl (that doesn't mean that we should close pull requests just because they're not ready yet) 23:48 VanessaE it's certainly an effective idea, but is it sustainable? 23:49 kahrl that's what I'm wondering about 23:49 kahrl I think it would at least be an immediate improvement 23:49 VanessaE possibly 23:52 kahrl this might be a bad idea, but in case the donations do come in as c55 predicted, perhaps a small amount of money could go to every dev that attends this meeting? 23:57 kahrl I guess the meeting could be integrated with some bot help 23:58 kahrl after discussing each issue, there could be a formal vote where each dev does /msg HLuaBot + or 0 or - or C 23:58 kahrl + meaning merge, 0 meaning abstention, - don't merge now, C close 23:58 VanessaE might not be a bad idea, per se. certainly a good incentive, but the question then becomes "how do you divvy up the funds?" 23:58 kahrl then HLuaBot would print the results to the channel as well as the github issue 23:59 kahrl VanessaE: well, uniformly