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| 00:06 |
ShadowNinja |
Comments? Fixes the server list announcing ignoring --port: http://ix.io/de7/diff |
| 00:06 |
ShadowNinja |
Perhaps it should be stored in the connection. |
| 00:10 |
Megaf |
fix it already =/ |
| 00:44 |
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| 11:32 |
Krock |
servers.minetest.net/announce returned status code 100 |
| 11:32 |
Krock |
100 Continue |
| 11:32 |
Krock |
!? |
| 11:36 |
Krock |
gone. |
| 11:36 |
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| 13:33 |
daswort |
make throws a compiling error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7736795/ |
| 13:35 |
VanessaE |
make clean and try again? |
| 13:36 |
nore |
anyone against merging #1437? (I'll merge it in 1 hour if no one complains) |
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| 14:44 |
nore |
thoughts on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1438 ? |
| 14:44 |
nore |
anyway, merging #1437 now since no one complained |
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| 16:08 |
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| 16:11 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/200 → close maybe? maybe fixed when using shaders… |
| 16:14 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/233 → fixed maybe? it seems to update properly, except maybe in creative mode where water flowing is maybe disabled (at least I heard of) |
| 16:14 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/244 → close, invalid? I don't see why dead players shouldn't move and get_objects_inside_radius should return everything probably |
| 16:24 |
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| 18:04 |
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| 18:12 |
RealBadAngel |
heh, hi sapier |
| 18:12 |
RealBadAngel |
why so many questions? |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
questions? |
| 18:12 |
RealBadAngel |
close maybe? fixed maybe? |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
sorry don't know :-) |
| 18:13 |
RealBadAngel |
lost self confidence or what? |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
nope just error reports without real information in it |
| 18:14 |
sapier |
#1435 those traces look like multiple bugs |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
that also applies to lighting/shading faces |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
from what i can see, thats irrlicht bug |
| 18:21 |
RealBadAngel |
normals seems to be sometimes incoreclty calculated |
| 18:21 |
RealBadAngel |
but when, on what conditions, only santa clause knows |
| 18:22 |
sapier |
well the tested version was prior my fix for ambient occlusion too so no idea if it's same or not |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
its related |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
and you cant do shit about it |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
normals are fucked up on the engine side |
| 18:22 |
sapier |
well it has to be as good as before that's our minimum requirement |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
nore figured out way to go around |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
pick different default value |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats temporary |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
that math has to be checked |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
normal vector is kinda basis for whatever i touch within shaders |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
if it's as good as before it's fine, right now those crashes are what I consider to be a potential problem |
| 18:25 |
RealBadAngel |
mine problem are not crashes, just incorect shading |
| 18:26 |
RealBadAngel |
but still a fuckin bug :) |
| 18:26 |
sapier |
well some incorrect shaders wont block a release but crashes would |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:32 |
RealBadAngel |
we have found a way |
| 18:32 |
RealBadAngel |
i also solved transparency materials issue |
| 18:33 |
RealBadAngel |
but both solutions are temporary |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
minetest is abusing irrlicht in worst possible way |
| 18:34 |
Calinou |
every game abuses every engine |
| 18:34 |
sapier |
4 days prior release changing everything isn't an option ;-) |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
but we made it bad to the bone |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
im not talkin this release |
| 18:35 |
sapier |
there are more ugly things in enginge don't try to change everything at once but step by step |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
but about the future |
| 18:35 |
RealBadAngel |
makin whole world a single scene node was worst decision ever |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:36 |
sapier |
no need to repeat commonly accepted facts ;-) |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
until i revert all that shit |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
we wont go any further |
| 18:37 |
sapier |
you could be a little bit more precise about what you plan to do ;-) |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
this is real blocker |
| 18:37 |
sapier |
stop complaining start explaining rba |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
we cant use the engine with it |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
materials are fucked up |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
no sorting |
| 18:37 |
sapier |
<< not continuing to read |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
we just have to go back |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
node = node |
| 18:38 |
sapier |
I don't wanna know what doesn't work everyone complains constantly |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
then everything will start to work out of the box |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i will be able to use all the materials |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
sorry but something mysticaly starting to work by a single chane never was true ;-) |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
water surface will become aviable |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
with reflections |
| 18:39 |
RealBadAngel |
also we will be able to use irrlicht bullet |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
make a branch show it to us, no one will stop you |
| 18:39 |
Calinou |
I hate when people complain about software limitations they don't understand |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
theres a branch already |
| 18:40 |
Calinou |
if people actually understood this, software choices would be insanely more sensible |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
which is light years ahead |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
its called Build A World... |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
rba url? |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
pull request? |
| 18:40 |
RealBadAngel |
its a project |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
closed source, built on Irrlicht engine |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
that's as helpfull as knowing there's water on moon |
| 18:42 |
Calinou |
in before it changes so much of Irrlicht it's not even Irrlicht anymore (see STK) |
| 18:42 |
sapier |
calinou sorry but what are you talking about? ;-) |
| 18:42 |
Calinou |
<RealBadAngel> its called Build A World... |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWR-RKGY8Pw |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
for example |
| 18:43 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: since you're here today you're just complaining what's up? ;-) |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
noone ever told minetest is perfect ... most parts are way more near to crap then to perfect ;-) |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
-most |
| 18:45 |
sapier |
+ some |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
i think, why the fuck we cant go the right way |
| 18:45 |
sapier |
did anyone say we can't? |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, in most certain cases |
| 18:45 |
Calinou |
prefer evolution to revolution; if you want a task to do, fix code consistency and styling |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
built-in logic is one of them |
| 18:45 |
Calinou |
it's a long one, a boring one, but rewarding |
| 18:45 |
sapier |
but you have to keep in mind client lighting is only one part |
| 18:46 |
sapier |
you need server to know about light too |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
the light level |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
^ please do remember this when you think about alternate lighting systems |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
rest of the code can be safely trashed |
| 18:47 |
RealBadAngel |
for hardware lights you dont even need shaders |
| 18:47 |
RealBadAngel |
engine will do that |
| 18:47 |
sapier |
I still don't understand what you wanna tell |
| 18:47 |
RealBadAngel |
calinou already used that word for me |
| 18:48 |
RealBadAngel |
continously fixin broken stuff is a road to nowhere |
| 18:48 |
sapier |
revolution? you're free to try it but I fear you'll be even more annoyed if you're working for weeks and still lack of result |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
we need a revolution, and do gfx again |
| 18:49 |
sapier |
that's your believe |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
cmon, seeing caves being rendered all the time |
| 18:49 |
sapier |
you can do same as pilzadam |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
is not even worth a laugh |
| 18:49 |
sapier |
he wrote a irrlicht replacement |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
its a bad joke |
| 18:49 |
sapier |
yes but it's a lot of time spent for it |
| 18:50 |
sapier |
only he can tell but I'd guess it's about 2 months of real time spent to it |
| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
do you realize that every single mesh is being rendered? |
| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
and thats why mt is so slow? |
| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
all the visible and invisible stuff is RENDERED |
| 18:50 |
sapier |
can you stop complaining and start explaining as I already said? |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
MT is far from slow. |
| 18:51 |
sapier |
except pa here's noone capable of helping you, that's sad but reality |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
im telling the facts |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
it's fast, even faster without shaders |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
very smooth (small amount of batches?) |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
for newly created world |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
get some PC that can render 60 FPS constantly (not so hard); compare Minecraft and Minetest on these |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
an empty one |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
no, one with decent amount of builds |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
of course it's also your problem if you spam allfaces nodes :P |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
sure, login on Ve servers |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
(this is why jungle leaves are glasslike in Carbone, and use a dense texture to compensate) |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
spam of complex nodes is the issue |
| 18:52 |
sapier |
you tell them back and forward about 2 months now RealBadAngel using that time you'd already have a signigicant part of what you wanna do |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
pipeworks are fairly insane when it comes to nodebox count |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
all the recent mods does that |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
my mods have 5 nodeboxes at most for circular saw, an uncommon block |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
3 at most for Stairs+ nodes |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
have you saw proper mesecon wires? |
| 18:53 |
Megaf__ |
hi |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
that can climb the walls etc? |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
each of them is a few nodeboxes |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
they do need over 1000 nodeboxes |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
if you want high performance with lots of them, make them raillike |
| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
1 fucking thousand |
| 18:54 |
sapier |
I'll leave this duscussion now. |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
Jeija could have simplified wires by not putting a central dot |
| 18:54 |
RealBadAngel |
instead of ONE |
| 18:55 |
RealBadAngel |
and you guys still thinkin that the code that alllows that is not needed |
| 18:55 |
sapier |
calinou what are you arguing about, if RealBadAngel wants to do his don't take his time let him do it |
| 18:56 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, its not that im angry or something |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
but we cant all the time take care of older versions |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
we have to move on |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
if somethins is wrong, leave it and make it better |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: noone stops you from rewriting the graphics |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
there's not even a compatibility issue |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
from my point of view it is |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
graphics are absolutely independent from client server communication |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
so what are you complaining about? |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
drop the node definition |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
no |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
how is node related to graphics? |
| 18:59 |
RealBadAngel |
that breaks all the gfx |
| 19:00 |
sapier |
that's like telling definition of length breaks golden gate bridge |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
:) |
| 19:00 |
nore |
ShadowNinja, what do you mean in your comment of #1438? |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
not like that |
| 19:00 |
sapier |
a node is a abstract definition how is this supposed to break a graphical representation? |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
we are collecting meshes into table |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
and making a node out of them |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
to show a world |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
so, we cant have physics |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
z-sorting |
| 19:01 |
sapier |
so yowe can't have physics anyway |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
irrbullet, just merge it :P |
| 19:02 |
sapier |
ok maybe you should call a scenenode scenenode to not cause confusion to nodes |
| 19:02 |
RealBadAngel |
node shall be a single mesh |
| 19:02 |
sapier |
you're free to do that |
| 19:02 |
RealBadAngel |
with own properties |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
try it but I guess you're causing even big machines to run out of memory |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
I'd be glad if you proove me wrong |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
shall i again show you build a world? |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
they did it proper way :P |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
you already said it's closed source |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
so you don't know what tricks they did |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
and usually it IS tricks if someone claims "I solved it" |
| 19:04 |
RealBadAngel |
yup, they use nasa mainframes to render the gameplay :P |
| 19:04 |
sapier |
as I said you don't know how they did it ... you'd not even know if they did it similar to we do |
| 19:04 |
RealBadAngel |
they made game like we do |
| 19:04 |
RealBadAngel |
they do use irrlicht |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
what else do you need to know? |
| 19:05 |
sapier |
and that's all you know |
| 19:05 |
sapier |
how they did it |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
not |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
they did it better |
| 19:05 |
sapier |
sorry but I don't see any progress in this discussion |
| 19:05 |
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| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
while i can |
| 19:06 |
sapier |
you wont get an agreement to break everything for a vague hope that this is better |
| 19:06 |
RealBadAngel |
when something can be done better, its our turn to think on how |
| 19:06 |
sapier |
and I don't even believe you HAVE to break everything to get it done |
| 19:06 |
sapier |
imho you could do it without significant changes to non graphics code |
| 19:06 |
RealBadAngel |
not really everything |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
just the main display loop |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
collect meshes |
| 19:07 |
sapier |
and noone will stop you from changing that code ... except you push alpha code to master |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
i am at the doorstep to do so, i mean changing the way |
| 19:08 |
RealBadAngel |
i started with new drawtype |
| 19:08 |
sapier |
and in case your code is really faster I don't think anyone will stop this from beeing merged |
| 19:08 |
RealBadAngel |
mesh |
| 19:08 |
sapier |
but if it's same speed or slower ... sorry but then your work may have been useless |
| 19:09 |
sapier |
let's hope it's not gonna be that way |
| 19:09 |
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| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
idk if it will be 2.345 frames per second slower or faster |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
but i am sure it will be done proper way |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
android has 12 fps I do care about 20% fps decrease |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
a proper solution beeing horribly slow isn't an option too ;-) |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
trashing all the current meshes code will propably bring back more fps you can even imagine |
| 19:12 |
sapier |
as I said if it's faster that'd be best to happen |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
removing shaders compilation out of runtime brought me 50% gain |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
and we are still full of such nonsenses |
| 19:12 |
sapier |
well it's good to have a fast high quality option but don't forget about slow machines |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
asking core 50 times a second, or whatever ur framerate is, about texture names is wise? |
| 19:14 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: why do we discuss about maybe things, if you believe your way of doing is faster do it, if you don't let it be |
| 19:15 |
RealBadAngel |
you know, when i was coding for demoscene i used to count cycles |
| 19:15 |
RealBadAngel |
to get faster code |
| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
now i can see fileacess in rendering code |
| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
monthy python at its best |
| 19:18 |
sapier |
I appreciate your experience RealBadAngel and wont defend crap like that but plz keep in mind you're not writing for a exactly specified hardware thus have to keep code generic ;-) |
| 19:19 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc i want it to be generic |
| 19:19 |
RealBadAngel |
irrlicht compatible in the first place |
| 19:20 |
RealBadAngel |
so for example i could use engine bulit in stuff |
| 19:22 |
sapier |
no ... don't use irrlicht internals but only the api |
| 19:24 |
RealBadAngel |
you think we are using something outta here? |
| 19:24 |
RealBadAngel |
we are using irrlicht but we managed to mess it up |
| 19:25 |
RealBadAngel |
thats even impossible to use two kinds of transparent materials at the same time |
| 19:25 |
RealBadAngel |
using one disables the other |
| 19:26 |
RealBadAngel |
water flickers like hell, with z-fights |
| 19:26 |
RealBadAngel |
its impossible to use tangent space for meshes |
| 19:27 |
RealBadAngel |
its impossible to use water surface node |
| 19:27 |
RealBadAngel |
we cant use reflections |
| 19:27 |
RealBadAngel |
we cant use lighting |
| 19:29 |
RealBadAngel |
it that enough? |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, its a good start |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
i will come back with rebuild of it or nothing |
| 19:31 |
proller |
no, good start - rewriting anything from scratch |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
thats a perfect start imho |
| 19:32 |
RealBadAngel |
motivation to do it better |
| 19:32 |
RealBadAngel |
what i could really appreciate would be a coder to help me |
| 19:32 |
proller |
write all big important improvements for last year |
| 19:32 |
RealBadAngel |
but if not, i cad do it on my own |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
*can |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
you know, with all the code i wrote |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
i barely touched a surface |
| 19:33 |
sapier |
(20:51:24) sapier: except pa here's noone capable of helping you, that's sad but reality |
| 19:34 |
proller |
;) |
| 19:34 |
RealBadAngel |
sad or not |
| 19:34 |
RealBadAngel |
be it a challenghe |
| 19:35 |
RealBadAngel |
im takin it |
| 19:35 |
sapier |
(20:52:38) sapier: you tell them back and forward about 2 months now RealBadAngel using that time you'd already have a signigicant part of what you wanna do |
| 19:35 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont need 2 months :p |
| 19:35 |
RealBadAngel |
revolutions were made way faster before |
| 19:35 |
sapier |
(21:08:11) sapier: and in case your code is really faster I don't think anyone will stop this from beeing merged |
| 19:36 |
RealBadAngel |
one head to fall, was sometimes enough ;) |
| 19:36 |
sapier |
(21:11:54) sapier: a proper solution beeing horribly slow isn't an option too ;-) |
| 19:36 |
RealBadAngel |
since we are advanced lets do that one node to fall ;) |
| 19:37 |
sapier |
(21:07:23) sapier: and noone will stop you from changing that code ... except you push alpha code to master |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
once done, it wont be alpha |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
it will just work |
| 19:38 |
sapier |
(20:58:53) sapier: so what are you complaining about? |
| 19:38 |
sapier |
;-) |
| 19:38 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 19:39 |
RealBadAngel |
no more comments :) |
| 19:39 |
RealBadAngel |
im just gonna do that |
| 19:53 |
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| 19:59 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: do ypi know why m_shader_callback isn't dropped in ShaderSource? |
| 20:04 |
sapier |
hmm most likely not as it seems to be that way as of merging that code |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:18 |
kaeza |
forums are giving 502 Bad Gateway |
| 21:18 |
kaeza |
celeron55, ^ |
| 21:24 |
celeron55 |
ack |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
https://gist.github.com/sapier/1a661cf78f29ca9f03b2 is fixing memory leaks bugfixing or feature addon? |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
ok no complains so I'm gonna push the bugfix |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
commit 3700 |
| 21:44 |
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| 22:01 |
kahrl |
/give RealBadAngel http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39956 |
| 22:01 |
kahrl |
(the first answer especially) |
| 22:15 |
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| 22:30 |
celeron55 |
kaeza: 01:28:00 <xyz> fixed it |
| 22:30 |
kaeza |
alright thanks |
| 22:59 |
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| 23:16 |
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| 23:17 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: Can you ask xyz to drop the serverlist subdomain? He wants you to ask since you'll manage it. (he's online as "xyz") |
| 23:23 |
ShadowNinja |
kahrl: They mention that an octree is probably the best way to do it since it's fast but lets you do culling. |
| 23:24 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: i pointed servers.minetest.ru to 144.76.208.120/2a01:04f8:0192:22e5:0000:0000:cf1c:4c46 now |
| 23:24 |
celeron55 |
maybe it updates after a while |
| 23:25 |
celeron55 |
it's definitely broken right now though, and it's broken for the minetest client too |
| 23:28 |
celeron55 |
it looks like it will work after DNS servers propagate the change |
| 23:28 |
celeron55 |
(based on 'wget -O- --header="Host: servers.minetest.net" 144.76.208.120') |
