Time Nick Message 00:06 ShadowNinja Comments? Fixes the server list announcing ignoring --port: http://ix.io/de7/diff 00:06 ShadowNinja Perhaps it should be stored in the connection. 00:10 Megaf fix it already =/ 11:32 Krock servers.minetest.net/announce returned status code 100 11:32 Krock 100 Continue 11:32 Krock !? 11:36 Krock gone. 13:33 daswort make throws a compiling error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7736795/ 13:35 VanessaE make clean and try again? 13:36 nore anyone against merging #1437? (I'll merge it in 1 hour if no one complains) 14:44 nore thoughts on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1438 ? 14:44 nore anyway, merging #1437 now since no one complained 16:11 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/200 → close maybe? maybe fixed when using shaders… 16:14 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/233 → fixed maybe? it seems to update properly, except maybe in creative mode where water flowing is maybe disabled (at least I heard of) 16:14 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/244 → close, invalid? I don't see why dead players shouldn't move and get_objects_inside_radius should return everything probably 18:12 RealBadAngel heh, hi sapier 18:12 RealBadAngel why so many questions? 18:12 sapier questions? 18:12 RealBadAngel close maybe? fixed maybe? 18:13 sapier sorry don't know :-) 18:13 RealBadAngel lost self confidence or what? 18:13 sapier nope just error reports without real information in it 18:14 sapier #1435 those traces look like multiple bugs 18:20 RealBadAngel that also applies to lighting/shading faces 18:20 RealBadAngel from what i can see, thats irrlicht bug 18:21 RealBadAngel normals seems to be sometimes incoreclty calculated 18:21 RealBadAngel but when, on what conditions, only santa clause knows 18:22 sapier well the tested version was prior my fix for ambient occlusion too so no idea if it's same or not 18:22 RealBadAngel its related 18:22 RealBadAngel and you cant do shit about it 18:22 RealBadAngel normals are fucked up on the engine side 18:22 sapier well it has to be as good as before that's our minimum requirement 18:23 RealBadAngel nore figured out way to go around 18:23 RealBadAngel pick different default value 18:24 RealBadAngel but thats temporary 18:24 RealBadAngel that math has to be checked 18:24 RealBadAngel normal vector is kinda basis for whatever i touch within shaders 18:25 sapier if it's as good as before it's fine, right now those crashes are what I consider to be a potential problem 18:25 RealBadAngel mine problem are not crashes, just incorect shading 18:26 RealBadAngel but still a fuckin bug :) 18:26 sapier well some incorrect shaders wont block a release but crashes would 18:32 RealBadAngel we have found a way 18:32 RealBadAngel i also solved transparency materials issue 18:33 RealBadAngel but both solutions are temporary 18:34 RealBadAngel minetest is abusing irrlicht in worst possible way 18:34 Calinou every game abuses every engine 18:34 sapier 4 days prior release changing everything isn't an option ;-) 18:34 RealBadAngel but we made it bad to the bone 18:35 RealBadAngel im not talkin this release 18:35 sapier there are more ugly things in enginge don't try to change everything at once but step by step 18:35 RealBadAngel but about the future 18:35 RealBadAngel makin whole world a single scene node was worst decision ever 18:36 sapier no need to repeat commonly accepted facts ;-) 18:36 RealBadAngel until i revert all that shit 18:36 RealBadAngel we wont go any further 18:37 sapier you could be a little bit more precise about what you plan to do ;-) 18:37 RealBadAngel this is real blocker 18:37 sapier stop complaining start explaining rba 18:37 RealBadAngel we cant use the engine with it 18:37 RealBadAngel materials are fucked up 18:37 RealBadAngel no sorting 18:37 sapier << not continuing to read 18:38 RealBadAngel hehe 18:38 RealBadAngel we just have to go back 18:38 RealBadAngel node = node 18:38 sapier I don't wanna know what doesn't work everyone complains constantly 18:38 RealBadAngel then everything will start to work out of the box 18:38 RealBadAngel i will be able to use all the materials 18:39 sapier sorry but something mysticaly starting to work by a single chane never was true ;-) 18:39 RealBadAngel water surface will become aviable 18:39 RealBadAngel with reflections 18:39 RealBadAngel also we will be able to use irrlicht bullet 18:39 sapier make a branch show it to us, no one will stop you 18:39 Calinou I hate when people complain about software limitations they don't understand 18:40 RealBadAngel theres a branch already 18:40 Calinou if people actually understood this, software choices would be insanely more sensible 18:40 RealBadAngel which is light years ahead 18:40 RealBadAngel its called Build A World... 18:40 sapier rba url? 18:40 sapier pull request? 18:40 RealBadAngel its a project 18:41 RealBadAngel closed source, built on Irrlicht engine 18:41 sapier that's as helpfull as knowing there's water on moon 18:42 Calinou in before it changes so much of Irrlicht it's not even Irrlicht anymore (see STK) 18:42 sapier calinou sorry but what are you talking about? ;-) 18:42 Calinou its called Build A World... 18:42 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWR-RKGY8Pw 18:42 RealBadAngel for example 18:43 sapier RealBadAngel: since you're here today you're just complaining what's up? ;-) 18:44 sapier noone ever told minetest is perfect ... most parts are way more near to crap then to perfect ;-) 18:44 sapier -most 18:45 sapier + some 18:45 RealBadAngel i think, why the fuck we cant go the right way 18:45 sapier did anyone say we can't? 18:45 RealBadAngel yes, in most certain cases 18:45 Calinou prefer evolution to revolution; if you want a task to do, fix code consistency and styling 18:45 RealBadAngel built-in logic is one of them 18:45 Calinou it's a long one, a boring one, but rewarding 18:45 sapier but you have to keep in mind client lighting is only one part 18:46 sapier you need server to know about light too 18:46 RealBadAngel ofc 18:46 RealBadAngel the light level 18:46 Calinou ^ please do remember this when you think about alternate lighting systems 18:46 RealBadAngel rest of the code can be safely trashed 18:47 RealBadAngel for hardware lights you dont even need shaders 18:47 RealBadAngel engine will do that 18:47 sapier I still don't understand what you wanna tell 18:47 RealBadAngel calinou already used that word for me 18:48 RealBadAngel continously fixin broken stuff is a road to nowhere 18:48 sapier revolution? you're free to try it but I fear you'll be even more annoyed if you're working for weeks and still lack of result 18:49 RealBadAngel we need a revolution, and do gfx again 18:49 sapier that's your believe 18:49 RealBadAngel cmon, seeing caves being rendered all the time 18:49 sapier you can do same as pilzadam 18:49 RealBadAngel is not even worth a laugh 18:49 sapier he wrote a irrlicht replacement 18:49 RealBadAngel its a bad joke 18:49 sapier yes but it's a lot of time spent for it 18:50 sapier only he can tell but I'd guess it's about 2 months of real time spent to it 18:50 RealBadAngel do you realize that every single mesh is being rendered? 18:50 RealBadAngel and thats why mt is so slow? 18:50 RealBadAngel all the visible and invisible stuff is RENDERED 18:50 sapier can you stop complaining and start explaining as I already said? 18:51 Calinou MT is far from slow. 18:51 sapier except pa here's noone capable of helping you, that's sad but reality 18:51 RealBadAngel im telling the facts 18:51 Calinou it's fast, even faster without shaders 18:51 Calinou very smooth (small amount of batches?) 18:52 RealBadAngel for newly created world 18:52 Calinou get some PC that can render 60 FPS constantly (not so hard); compare Minecraft and Minetest on these 18:52 RealBadAngel an empty one 18:52 Calinou no, one with decent amount of builds 18:52 Calinou of course it's also your problem if you spam allfaces nodes :P 18:52 RealBadAngel sure, login on Ve servers 18:52 Calinou (this is why jungle leaves are glasslike in Carbone, and use a dense texture to compensate) 18:52 Calinou spam of complex nodes is the issue 18:52 sapier you tell them back and forward about 2 months now RealBadAngel using that time you'd already have a signigicant part of what you wanna do 18:52 Calinou pipeworks are fairly insane when it comes to nodebox count 18:53 RealBadAngel all the recent mods does that 18:53 Calinou my mods have 5 nodeboxes at most for circular saw, an uncommon block 18:53 Calinou 3 at most for Stairs+ nodes 18:53 RealBadAngel have you saw proper mesecon wires? 18:53 Megaf__ hi 18:53 RealBadAngel that can climb the walls etc? 18:53 Calinou each of them is a few nodeboxes 18:53 RealBadAngel they do need over 1000 nodeboxes 18:53 Calinou if you want high performance with lots of them, make them raillike 18:54 RealBadAngel 1 fucking thousand 18:54 sapier I'll leave this duscussion now. 18:54 Calinou Jeija could have simplified wires by not putting a central dot 18:54 RealBadAngel instead of ONE 18:55 RealBadAngel and you guys still thinkin that the code that alllows that is not needed 18:55 sapier calinou what are you arguing about, if RealBadAngel wants to do his don't take his time let him do it 18:56 RealBadAngel sapier, its not that im angry or something 18:57 RealBadAngel but we cant all the time take care of older versions 18:57 RealBadAngel we have to move on 18:57 RealBadAngel if somethins is wrong, leave it and make it better 18:58 sapier RealBadAngel: noone stops you from rewriting the graphics 18:58 sapier there's not even a compatibility issue 18:58 RealBadAngel from my point of view it is 18:58 sapier graphics are absolutely independent from client server communication 18:58 sapier so what are you complaining about? 18:58 RealBadAngel drop the node definition 18:59 sapier no 18:59 sapier how is node related to graphics? 18:59 RealBadAngel that breaks all the gfx 19:00 sapier that's like telling definition of length breaks golden gate bridge 19:00 RealBadAngel :) 19:00 nore ShadowNinja, what do you mean in your comment of #1438? 19:00 RealBadAngel not like that 19:00 sapier a node is a abstract definition how is this supposed to break a graphical representation? 19:00 RealBadAngel we are collecting meshes into table 19:01 RealBadAngel and making a node out of them 19:01 RealBadAngel to show a world 19:01 RealBadAngel so, we cant have physics 19:01 RealBadAngel z-sorting 19:01 sapier so yowe can't have physics anyway 19:01 RealBadAngel irrbullet, just merge it :P 19:02 sapier ok maybe you should call a scenenode scenenode to not cause confusion to nodes 19:02 RealBadAngel node shall be a single mesh 19:02 sapier you're free to do that 19:02 RealBadAngel with own properties 19:03 sapier try it but I guess you're causing even big machines to run out of memory 19:03 sapier I'd be glad if you proove me wrong 19:03 RealBadAngel shall i again show you build a world? 19:03 RealBadAngel they did it proper way :P 19:03 sapier you already said it's closed source 19:03 sapier so you don't know what tricks they did 19:03 sapier and usually it IS tricks if someone claims "I solved it" 19:04 RealBadAngel yup, they use nasa mainframes to render the gameplay :P 19:04 sapier as I said you don't know how they did it ... you'd not even know if they did it similar to we do 19:04 RealBadAngel they made game like we do 19:04 RealBadAngel they do use irrlicht 19:05 RealBadAngel what else do you need to know? 19:05 sapier and that's all you know 19:05 sapier how they did it 19:05 RealBadAngel not 19:05 RealBadAngel they did it better 19:05 sapier sorry but I don't see any progress in this discussion 19:05 RealBadAngel while i can 19:06 sapier you wont get an agreement to break everything for a vague hope that this is better 19:06 RealBadAngel when something can be done better, its our turn to think on how 19:06 sapier and I don't even believe you HAVE to break everything to get it done 19:06 sapier imho you could do it without significant changes to non graphics code 19:06 RealBadAngel not really everything 19:07 RealBadAngel just the main display loop 19:07 RealBadAngel collect meshes 19:07 sapier and noone will stop you from changing that code ... except you push alpha code to master 19:07 RealBadAngel i am at the doorstep to do so, i mean changing the way 19:08 RealBadAngel i started with new drawtype 19:08 sapier and in case your code is really faster I don't think anyone will stop this from beeing merged 19:08 RealBadAngel mesh 19:08 sapier but if it's same speed or slower ... sorry but then your work may have been useless 19:09 sapier let's hope it's not gonna be that way 19:10 RealBadAngel idk if it will be 2.345 frames per second slower or faster 19:11 RealBadAngel but i am sure it will be done proper way 19:11 sapier android has 12 fps I do care about 20% fps decrease 19:11 sapier a proper solution beeing horribly slow isn't an option too ;-) 19:11 RealBadAngel trashing all the current meshes code will propably bring back more fps you can even imagine 19:12 sapier as I said if it's faster that'd be best to happen 19:12 RealBadAngel removing shaders compilation out of runtime brought me 50% gain 19:12 RealBadAngel and we are still full of such nonsenses 19:12 sapier well it's good to have a fast high quality option but don't forget about slow machines 19:13 RealBadAngel asking core 50 times a second, or whatever ur framerate is, about texture names is wise? 19:14 sapier RealBadAngel: why do we discuss about maybe things, if you believe your way of doing is faster do it, if you don't let it be 19:15 RealBadAngel you know, when i was coding for demoscene i used to count cycles 19:15 RealBadAngel to get faster code 19:16 RealBadAngel now i can see fileacess in rendering code 19:16 RealBadAngel monthy python at its best 19:18 sapier I appreciate your experience RealBadAngel and wont defend crap like that but plz keep in mind you're not writing for a exactly specified hardware thus have to keep code generic ;-) 19:19 RealBadAngel ofc i want it to be generic 19:19 RealBadAngel irrlicht compatible in the first place 19:20 RealBadAngel so for example i could use engine bulit in stuff 19:22 sapier no ... don't use irrlicht internals but only the api 19:24 RealBadAngel you think we are using something outta here? 19:24 RealBadAngel we are using irrlicht but we managed to mess it up 19:25 RealBadAngel thats even impossible to use two kinds of transparent materials at the same time 19:25 RealBadAngel using one disables the other 19:26 RealBadAngel water flickers like hell, with z-fights 19:26 RealBadAngel its impossible to use tangent space for meshes 19:27 RealBadAngel its impossible to use water surface node 19:27 RealBadAngel we cant use reflections 19:27 RealBadAngel we cant use lighting 19:29 RealBadAngel it that enough? 19:31 RealBadAngel anyway, its a good start 19:31 RealBadAngel i will come back with rebuild of it or nothing 19:31 proller no, good start - rewriting anything from scratch 19:31 RealBadAngel thats a perfect start imho 19:32 RealBadAngel motivation to do it better 19:32 RealBadAngel what i could really appreciate would be a coder to help me 19:32 proller write all big important improvements for last year 19:32 RealBadAngel but if not, i cad do it on my own 19:33 RealBadAngel *can 19:33 RealBadAngel you know, with all the code i wrote 19:33 RealBadAngel i barely touched a surface 19:33 sapier (20:51:24) sapier: except pa here's noone capable of helping you, that's sad but reality 19:34 proller ;) 19:34 RealBadAngel sad or not 19:34 RealBadAngel be it a challenghe 19:35 RealBadAngel im takin it 19:35 sapier (20:52:38) sapier: you tell them back and forward about 2 months now RealBadAngel using that time you'd already have a signigicant part of what you wanna do 19:35 RealBadAngel i wont need 2 months :p 19:35 RealBadAngel revolutions were made way faster before 19:35 sapier (21:08:11) sapier: and in case your code is really faster I don't think anyone will stop this from beeing merged 19:36 RealBadAngel one head to fall, was sometimes enough ;) 19:36 sapier (21:11:54) sapier: a proper solution beeing horribly slow isn't an option too ;-) 19:36 RealBadAngel since we are advanced lets do that one node to fall ;) 19:37 sapier (21:07:23) sapier: and noone will stop you from changing that code ... except you push alpha code to master 19:37 RealBadAngel once done, it wont be alpha 19:37 RealBadAngel it will just work 19:38 sapier (20:58:53) sapier: so what are you complaining about? 19:38 sapier ;-) 19:38 RealBadAngel lol 19:39 RealBadAngel no more comments :) 19:39 RealBadAngel im just gonna do that 19:59 sapier RealBadAngel: do ypi know why m_shader_callback isn't dropped in ShaderSource? 20:04 sapier hmm most likely not as it seems to be that way as of merging that code 21:18 kaeza forums are giving 502 Bad Gateway 21:18 kaeza celeron55, ^ 21:24 celeron55 ack 21:26 sapier https://gist.github.com/sapier/1a661cf78f29ca9f03b2 is fixing memory leaks bugfixing or feature addon? 21:34 sapier ok no complains so I'm gonna push the bugfix 21:34 sapier commit 3700 22:01 kahrl /give RealBadAngel http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39956 22:01 kahrl (the first answer especially) 22:30 celeron55 kaeza: 01:28:00 fixed it 22:30 kaeza alright thanks 23:17 ShadowNinja celeron55: Can you ask xyz to drop the serverlist subdomain? He wants you to ask since you'll manage it. (he's online as "xyz") 23:23 ShadowNinja kahrl: They mention that an octree is probably the best way to do it since it's fast but lets you do culling. 23:24 celeron55 sfan5: i pointed servers.minetest.ru to 144.76.208.120/2a01:04f8:0192:22e5:0000:0000:cf1c:4c46 now 23:24 celeron55 maybe it updates after a while 23:25 celeron55 it's definitely broken right now though, and it's broken for the minetest client too 23:28 celeron55 it looks like it will work after DNS servers propagate the change 23:28 celeron55 (based on 'wget -O- --header="Host: servers.minetest.net" 144.76.208.120')