| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:35 |
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| 00:47 |
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| 00:58 |
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| 01:16 |
celeron55 |
aaand it works with GLESv1: http://c55.me/random/2014-01/tscrot-2014-01-03_03-14-10.png |
| 01:17 |
celeron55 |
now i need to just somehow hack it into landscape and we have one more useful touch interface development device |
| 01:18 |
sapier1 |
great |
| 01:21 |
sapier1 |
hmm dynamic casting in time critical areas doesn't seem to be a good idea :-/ |
| 01:31 |
sapier1 |
thexyz could you give the new version a try? I was able to reproduce that issue and it's fixed for me. |
| 01:38 |
sapier1 |
tcp did quite well if you take into account I forgot to update my fdset prior doing select within a loop of count 10 and ... select timeout 50ms ... so tcp was handled each 0.5 seconds only |
| 01:39 |
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| 01:44 |
hmmmm |
[05:22 PM] <PilzAdam> nobody pushed to stable-0.4 branch, mt_game isnt taged |
| 01:44 |
hmmmm |
I thought you were doing minetest_game |
| 01:44 |
hmmmm |
the -dev suffix gets reenabled the next time someone wants to commit something.... it doesn't need to be done immediately |
| 01:47 |
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| 02:12 |
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| 02:37 |
VanessaE |
so about copy&paste into minetest in linux. |
| 02:37 |
VanessaE |
is that ever gonna get fixed properly? |
| 02:42 |
|
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| 03:08 |
kahrl |
VanessaE: has anyone ever figured out how other irrlicht-based games fix it? |
| 03:09 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: I'm not sure, all I do know is that for some folks under certain window managers, or certain clipboard managers, it does work |
| 03:09 |
VanessaE |
it doesn't, for example, work in xfce, but I guess KDE users can use it? |
| 03:10 |
kahrl |
I guess so; c&p is implemented in irrlicht but it uses a not-general-enough mechanism, it appears |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
neither the ctrl-c/ctrl-v method, nor highligh/middle-click, nor selecting from xfce's clipboard manager work |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
yet I can usually select something inside of minetest, and then copy that out and paste it into ghre. |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
here* |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
midnightsystems.kicks-ass.org <--- copied out of the main menu |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
(ctrl-c/ctrl-v) |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
works from the 't' chat dialog also |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
can't highlight to copy at all in the F10 console |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
(nor can I paste) |
| 03:13 |
VanessaE |
some users have in the past reported that attempts to copy from somewhere else, say a terminal, and paste into minetest will actually *crash* the app from which the text was copied |
| 03:15 |
VanessaE |
not sure if that's still the case though, haven't had it happen to me |
| 03:19 |
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| 03:21 |
kahrl |
same here: I can copy out of minetest, but not paste into it |
| 03:21 |
kahrl |
(not in the F10 console, but c&p is not implemented at all there) |
| 03:21 |
kahrl |
s/but/because |
| 03:22 |
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| 03:29 |
kahrl |
hmmmm: didn't nore already commit something after 0.4.9? or was that part of the release? |
| 03:29 |
VanessaE |
I didn't notice? |
| 03:29 |
VanessaE |
*checks log* |
| 03:29 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/91923806a98fb5cc8e2bf6ed6a864b41337bb3e5 |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
I wonder if that's that glitch that sometimes affects signs, doors, etc when you aim at them from an oblique angle. |
| 03:30 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
that's the only commit I see |
| 03:30 |
kahrl |
could be |
| 03:32 |
kahrl |
I noticed that behaviour when I modified getPointedThing for 0.4 and nodeboxes, but decided to leave it in because there often were item objects stuck inside nodes |
| 03:32 |
kahrl |
so by prioritising objects it was possible to pick those items up |
| 03:33 |
kahrl |
anyway, I'm readding the -dev suffix now |
| 03:39 |
VanessaE |
now's the time to get some experimental stuff rebased and added |
| 03:39 |
VanessaE |
that damn VBO patch needs to go in before it's lost forever |
| 03:41 |
kahrl |
updated minetest_game's stable-0.4 branch and pushed the 0.4.9 tag |
| 03:43 |
kahrl |
minetest's stable-0.4 is stuck on 0.4.8 too, let me update that |
| 03:43 |
VanessaE |
criminy, lots of shit didn't get done did it |
| 03:44 |
kahrl |
it's a bit horrifying |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
I'm a little bit surprised no one's figured out how to script this |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
you know, just ~/Scripts/make-minetest-release.sh 0.4.9 |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
or somethin |
| 03:47 |
kahrl |
that should be possible actually |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
the only less-than-doable part would be automating the build+upload of the windows package |
| 03:48 |
VanessaE |
well I guess there's cross-compiling |
| 03:48 |
VanessaE |
but then, no DX support if you do that. |
| 04:05 |
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| 04:05 |
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| 05:03 |
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| 05:11 |
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| 06:54 |
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| 06:58 |
VanessaE |
jeez |
| 06:58 |
VanessaE |
quitting the client never seems to send the "quit" packet to the server |
| 06:58 |
VanessaE |
always has to wait for a timeout. |
| 07:21 |
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| 07:29 |
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| 07:52 |
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| 08:29 |
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| 08:38 |
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| 09:22 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1081 <<< opinions please! |
| 09:28 |
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| 09:46 |
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| 09:55 |
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| 10:13 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 11:17 |
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| 11:28 |
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| 12:01 |
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| 12:16 |
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| 12:24 |
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| 12:31 |
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| 12:50 |
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| 12:55 |
Ritchie |
hi, why cannot be disabled logging debug and action to console or logfile? |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:00 |
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| 13:04 |
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| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
just dump all output to /dev/null if you must |
| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
but that's a bad idea |
| 13:08 |
VanessaE |
makes it impossible to collect debug data if something crashes |
| 13:22 |
Ritchie |
i want to log only errors, not actions |
| 13:35 |
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| 13:38 |
iqualfragile |
Ritchie: errors are usually caused by actions |
| 13:38 |
iqualfragile |
btw:VanessaE pipeworks crashes on load |
| 13:38 |
VanessaE |
oh? |
| 13:38 |
VanessaE |
wfm :P |
| 13:38 |
VanessaE |
what's the error? |
| 13:38 |
iqualfragile |
sec |
| 13:40 |
|
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| 13:43 |
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| 13:53 |
PilzAdam |
<hmmmm> the -dev suffix gets reenabled the next time someone wants to commit something.... it doesn't need to be done immediately <- yea, but someone already pushed something without reenabling it |
| 13:54 |
PilzAdam |
I guess it would help if one person organizes the release |
| 13:54 |
nore |
PilzAdam, indeed, hadn't thought about that |
| 14:03 |
xyz |
what's the point of whining so much about so unimportant things |
| 14:04 |
PilzAdam |
xyz, whats the point of not following a simple step-by-step guide? |
| 14:04 |
xyz |
all you do is whine about this or that |
| 14:04 |
xyz |
what do we need -dev suffix for in the first place? |
| 14:04 |
xyz |
the generateversion will append commit hash and other stuff anyway so it's not like anyone will confuse it with release |
| 14:05 |
PilzAdam |
to easily tell if people use stable or a dev version if they report bugs |
| 14:05 |
PilzAdam |
(if they not build in a git dir) |
| 14:06 |
xyz |
indeed so what are the chances of someone building specific non-release commit in non-git dir? why get so pissy if someone forgot to enable -dev suffix, I don't understand |
| 14:06 |
xyz |
you could as well have fixed this yourself |
| 14:07 |
PilzAdam |
it was not my intention to sound "pissy" |
| 14:07 |
PilzAdam |
I think its important to tell people what they can do better next time |
| 14:09 |
PilzAdam |
and I havent fixed it myself because I am not allowed to push stuff without agreement of another core dev |
| 14:09 |
|
sapier joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:10 |
sapier |
ok here it is https://github.com/sapier/minetest/tree/enet_support triple protocol client/server branch |
| 14:10 |
sapier |
FIrst results: Download 170B media loopback starting multiplayer server from gui, time enter pwd -> in game: |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
Legacy(fixed minetest protocol): 3:03 min |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
Enet: 2:33 min |
| 14:11 |
sapier |
TCP: 0:18 |
| 14:11 |
nore |
wow |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
and NO last one isn't a typo ... tcp is lightning fast in this test |
| 14:12 |
pitriss |
great.. |
| 14:12 |
xyz |
I don't really get it, what's "triple" about it? |
| 14:12 |
sapier |
you can connect using any of those protocols |
| 14:13 |
xyz |
ah, I see, that's awful, but whatever |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
I was to lazy to compile new everytime |
| 14:13 |
sapier |
enet uses port+1 so this is not the final solution of course |
| 14:14 |
xyz |
I don't really understand what did you test |
| 14:14 |
sapier |
but that's an additional point, we can't create a dual protocol clientfor enet + legacy without a second port too |
| 14:14 |
xyz |
170 bytes of media or what? |
| 14:14 |
sapier |
I made my server have 170mb of texture and media data and did connect |
| 14:14 |
xyz |
localhost? |
| 14:14 |
sapier |
yes |
| 14:15 |
xyz |
ah |
| 14:16 |
sapier |
of course that test is tcp's top performing task, so it's not the actual ranking I'm suprised about but the deltas |
| 14:16 |
sapier |
I'd not have expected tcp to be that fast |
| 14:16 |
sapier |
and to be honest I've expected more from enet |
| 14:17 |
sapier |
especialy as it doesn't honor the 512byte udp datagramm limit |
| 14:18 |
xyz |
well I guess it's not made for sending large media |
| 14:18 |
xyz |
for anything that size (100 mb or so) I'd expect any sane person to set up a remote media server |
| 14:18 |
xyz |
that's how other games do that, at least |
| 14:19 |
sapier |
maybe but considering that someone even complained about having to open a tcp port to firewall if we use hybrid mode, setting up an additional server is even more work |
| 14:20 |
sapier |
of course there are other issues that can be solved by a media server too |
| 14:20 |
xyz |
you're comparing incomparable things now |
| 14:21 |
xyz |
in that mode you called "hybrid" the server admin is always required to open a port |
| 14:21 |
xyz |
setting up media server is only required when your media is too large; and you don't like the cdn for whatever reason |
| 14:22 |
sapier |
ok lets not discuss about the cdn thing again it's not related to protocol at all ;-) |
| 14:22 |
xyz |
then you should stop talking about media transfer either |
| 14:23 |
sapier |
no we shouldn't as it's a task protocol has to cope with |
| 14:23 |
xyz |
well then you should talk about it reasonably |
| 14:23 |
sapier |
minetest is not a professional multiserver game |
| 14:23 |
xyz |
what's the reasonable size of media? |
| 14:23 |
xyz |
indeed it isn't |
| 14:24 |
sapier |
as far as I know you usually have one server maybe a vps with multiple cores |
| 14:24 |
xyz |
anyway since you yourself have agreed that this test doesn't show anything what shall we test the next? |
| 14:24 |
sapier |
I'd not assume 100 mb texture+media size to be out of scope |
| 14:25 |
sapier |
you said this test doesn't show anything |
| 14:25 |
sapier |
that test shows what connect times in corner case will be |
| 14:25 |
sapier |
a test testing non load situations is useless |
| 14:26 |
xyz |
yes, well, my point is that media sending doesn't show much |
| 14:26 |
sapier |
it's the first impression I'd not underestimate that fact |
| 14:26 |
xyz |
well whatever |
| 14:26 |
xyz |
I just compile and run enet_support and get tcp server and client, right? |
| 14:27 |
sapier |
there's a config setting to switch between all three modes |
| 14:27 |
xyz |
well it complains about missing header enet/enet.h, perhaps you forgot to include something? |
| 14:27 |
sapier |
client_protocol=(legacy,tcp,enet) |
| 14:28 |
sapier |
server will always accept all of them |
| 14:28 |
sapier |
no I used system enet |
| 14:28 |
xyz |
ah that's a terrible idea |
| 14:28 |
sapier |
that's the one and only sane idea |
| 14:28 |
xyz |
yeah sure |
| 14:28 |
sapier |
why should I build a own enet if there's even a debian package available? |
| 14:29 |
xyz |
because that's how enet recommends to do things |
| 14:29 |
sapier |
of course cmake should have a look for it |
| 14:29 |
xyz |
there could be protocol-breaking changes |
| 14:29 |
xyz |
say, enet updated to enet2 tomorrow |
| 14:29 |
xyz |
in arch repos, but not in debian |
| 14:30 |
xyz |
uh oh bad luck |
| 14:30 |
sapier |
you know this is a con for enet? |
| 14:30 |
xyz |
no, I don't think it is |
| 14:31 |
xyz |
well, I honestly don't care that much anyway |
| 14:31 |
sapier |
I'd consider it a con to depend on some other lib for my own project to be compatible to my old versions |
| 14:31 |
xyz |
I just think that your way of doing some things is wrong, that's all |
| 14:31 |
sapier |
because once enet breaks protocol we have to either maintain it ourselfs or break with old clients too |
| 14:32 |
sapier |
xyz :-) I do think same about your way ;-) |
| 14:32 |
sapier |
yet I guess you'll manage to compile it do you? |
| 14:34 |
sapier |
and for enet included to minetest or not ... actually I don't really care about, I prefere using system libs where possible, but I won't argue about it if someone volonteers to do the work avoiding the system package ;-) |
| 14:35 |
xyz |
I don't think we've decided to include any of those |
| 14:35 |
xyz |
have we? |
| 14:35 |
sapier |
nothing is decided by now |
| 14:36 |
xyz |
I see |
| 14:36 |
sapier |
if someone suggests a udp based protocol outperforming tcp on big data that one might have even better chances to win then enet or tcp itself |
| 14:37 |
xyz |
for some reason I see "what(): Failed to bind TCP socket" when I restart my minetestserver |
| 14:37 |
xyz |
after some time it goes away |
| 14:37 |
sapier |
just ignore those small glitches |
| 14:38 |
sapier |
there are plenty of random issues in there that need to be fixed but they're not show stoppers for testing |
| 14:38 |
sapier |
at least not those I know abot |
| 14:39 |
sapier |
btw I still haven't removed the conlock ... this might limit tcp and legacy performance in scenarios with lots of clients |
| 14:39 |
sapier |
for enet this won't change anything it's already limited by single thread design |
| 14:40 |
sapier |
and no it's not unfair, enet just doesn't support multithreading |
| 14:41 |
xyz |
hm, I'm afraid you did something wrong about enet |
| 14:41 |
xyz |
I've just checked your branch, it runs goddamn slow there and can't even handle 50 clients, and there are some lags in single player game as well |
| 14:41 |
xyz |
while in my branch it can easily handle 100 clients |
| 14:42 |
sapier |
any idea? |
| 14:44 |
sapier |
because if it's not a benefit of enet it might be a global fixable issue |
| 14:46 |
xyz |
well there's one easy thing you missed |
| 14:46 |
xyz |
fixing it improved the situation but I still feel that something's too slow |
| 14:46 |
sapier |
can you tell me what it is? |
| 14:47 |
xyz |
well it's right here https://github.com/sapier/minetest/blob/enet_support/src/connection.cpp#L1388 |
| 14:47 |
xyz |
anyway, for some reason the server asserts from time to time |
| 14:48 |
sapier |
what's wrong there? |
| 14:48 |
xyz |
you should use if instead of while there |
| 14:49 |
sapier |
true |
| 14:49 |
sapier |
but will result in a single packet beeing proccessed at once only |
| 14:50 |
xyz |
this doesn't matter |
| 14:51 |
sapier |
ok then we should tcp to do it same way to ;-) it's trading cpu power for latency |
| 14:51 |
sapier |
but it's hard to compare as tcp isn't limited that much by this issue due to separate send and receive threads |
| 14:52 |
xyz |
uhm, did you get what's the issue about? |
| 14:52 |
xyz |
if send and receive threads are separated then it shouldn't affect it at all |
| 14:52 |
sapier |
if course enet does only process incoming packets in this loop as of some incoming packet threshold is reached |
| 14:53 |
xyz |
no, I was talking about other thing |
| 14:53 |
xyz |
let's say you receive a packet every 50 ms or less |
| 14:54 |
xyz |
this means you'll never send anything |
| 14:54 |
xyz |
because you'll never get out of this while |
| 14:54 |
sapier |
they are because in tcp packets aren't packets but a continous stream, where multiple packets are extracted from that stream prior packet processing |
| 14:55 |
sapier |
that's what I meant with "packet threshold" |
| 14:55 |
xyz |
that issue is really simple and doesn't require any network knowledge |
| 14:55 |
sapier |
so yes this is a bug in enet implementation I haven't thought about |
| 14:56 |
sapier |
no matter it's fixed |
| 14:57 |
sapier |
ok what else |
| 14:59 |
xyz |
well let's see.. |
| 14:59 |
sapier |
of course I can reduce the timeout to < 50 .. but this will increase cpu load in idle situations too |
| 14:59 |
xyz |
did you profile it? |
| 15:00 |
xyz |
well how about 10 |
| 15:00 |
xyz |
at least, that's what I used so it'll be more honest to compare it this way |
| 15:00 |
sapier |
not yet but I don't have to profile something to know running loops in 50ms raster causes less load then running them in 10ms |
| 15:00 |
xyz |
although under load it shouldn't matter |
| 15:00 |
xyz |
I'm talking about profiling this thing in general |
| 15:01 |
sapier |
split thread design doesn't need this as they're woken up by incomming commands |
| 15:01 |
xyz |
I had to fix other stuff |
| 15:01 |
xyz |
in my branch |
| 15:02 |
sapier |
that's why you've been suggested to push to minetest |
| 15:02 |
sapier |
it's already impossible to compare freeminer to minetest |
| 15:02 |
xyz |
aww, it crashed |
| 15:03 |
xyz |
well, from time to time I posted some commits that improve performance a bit there |
| 15:03 |
sapier |
it's a prototype ;-) |
| 15:03 |
sapier |
error handling is most likely neither complete nor gracefull ;-) |
| 15:04 |
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| 15:04 |
sapier |
what do you use for profiling? |
| 15:04 |
xyz |
/home/xyz/minetest/minetest-sapier/src/connection.cpp:1551: void con::ConnectionEnetThread::processCommand(con::ConnectionCommand&): Assertion '"Got command that shouldn't be sent through enet command" == 0' failed. |
| 15:05 |
sapier |
hmm disconnect? :-) |
| 15:05 |
xyz |
I use Intel VTune Amplifier |
| 15:05 |
sapier |
guess that one isn't freely available? ;-) |
| 15:06 |
xyz |
ah |
| 15:06 |
xyz |
that happens when max_users is met |
| 15:06 |
xyz |
well, it's free as free beer for Linux |
| 15:06 |
sapier |
ok that's missing too I don't honor the max user setting in enet |
| 15:06 |
xyz |
and non-commercial stuff |
| 15:07 |
|
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| 15:07 |
xyz |
so if that's fine you can grab it |
| 15:07 |
sapier |
tried 65k but enet failed :-) |
| 15:07 |
sapier |
there seems to be some limit for maximum user count |
| 15:07 |
xyz |
right |
| 15:08 |
xyz |
now it crashed with /home/xyz/minetest/minetest-sapier/src/connection.cpp:1474: void con::ConnectionEnetThread::sendCmd(con::ConnectionCommand&): Assertion '"ENET failed to send data!" == 0' failed. |
| 15:08 |
xyz |
after I disconnected all the bots with killall |
| 15:08 |
sapier |
I haven't implemented disconnect handling yet |
| 15:10 |
sapier |
guess that's gonna be necessary for usefull testing |
| 15:11 |
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| 15:12 |
xyz |
can't find anything related in profiler log |
| 15:12 |
xyz |
tcp thread seems to take the most time according to it, yet there are no tcp clients connected |
| 15:13 |
sapier |
hmm tcp thread uses 50 ms timeout for beeing able to stop the thread |
| 15:13 |
sapier |
maybe timeout setting is wrong |
| 15:13 |
xyz |
well I guess you'll be able to profile it |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:16 |
sapier |
do you still have the lag you mentioned yesterday in tcp? |
| 15:20 |
xyz |
no |
| 15:22 |
sapier |
ok good |
| 15:22 |
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| 15:22 |
sapier |
but we still don't have a way to test it |
| 15:22 |
sapier |
did you try 100 clients with legacy and tcp too? |
| 15:24 |
xyz |
well why won't you do that? I can, of course |
| 15:25 |
sapier |
because I don't have any idea how you did it, as far as I know master(and threrefor my branch) doesn't contain the no head fixes |
| 15:26 |
xyz |
uh, I just merged your another branch into this |
| 15:26 |
sapier |
this did work? |
| 15:26 |
xyz |
why wouldn't it? |
| 15:26 |
xyz |
of course it did |
| 15:27 |
sapier |
would've expected this to mess up a lots of things |
| 15:30 |
xyz |
why would it mess anything up? I think changes are in separate files |
| 15:30 |
sapier |
sometimes I'd wish to know what you want xyz, do you want to improve minetest or do you want it to die in favor of freeminer ... or something completely different ;-) |
| 15:30 |
xyz |
not sure what did you mean by this |
| 15:31 |
xyz |
anyway, I've made a simple test: run 100 bots with proller's spawn.pl, then connect one "normal" client to run around and watch what's happening |
| 15:31 |
xyz |
TCP seems to fail it because I can't connect with that normal client |
| 15:31 |
sapier |
obviously you don't provide improvements for minetest the last weeks, reengeneering them from freeminer is often as much work as finding them without your previous work ... that's not bound to protocol things |
| 15:32 |
sapier |
I do not say you don't do improvements ... just not for minetest directly |
| 15:34 |
xyz |
same goes for enet |
| 15:34 |
xyz |
I won't even bother testing legacy |
| 15:34 |
xyz |
well it's not like I was doing anything interesting last weeks |
| 15:34 |
xyz |
except maybe the colored chat |
| 15:35 |
sapier |
I tested legacy up to 50 clients it did work without any issues ... after that my pc didn't have cpu power left for additional clients |
| 15:35 |
xyz |
yes, and for other changes (some random improvements) I did provide links to commits here |
| 15:36 |
xyz |
and I was told that colored chat should be done properly by hmmmm I think |
| 15:36 |
sapier |
you know as good as I know that links in here will only bee seen if repeated at least 20 times ;-) |
| 15:36 |
xyz |
well then what should I do? |
| 15:37 |
celeron55 |
make an issue on github or a wiki page and collect them there i guess |
| 15:37 |
xyz |
alright |
| 15:37 |
xyz |
I'll go with issue on github then |
| 15:37 |
sapier |
in best case just file a pull request ... of course I understand this is additional work for you doing main development for freeminer |
| 15:38 |
xyz |
indeed, I'd prefer to not do it since I'll be asked to rebase it anyway after a week or so |
| 15:39 |
xyz |
hmm.. so I guess the only thing that could be valuable is ABM stuff |
| 15:41 |
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| 15:42 |
xyz |
okay, submitted #1082 |
| 15:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1082 |
| 15:42 |
sapier |
thanks! :-) |
| 15:43 |
xyz |
unrelated, but I think that this bot should at least post issue title or something ^ ShadowNinja |
| 15:44 |
sapier |
does irc support href style links? (showing title but connecting to url on clicking) |
| 15:44 |
xyz |
no |
| 15:45 |
xyz |
but we can shorten them, using git.io or so |
| 15:46 |
sapier |
good idea |
| 15:47 |
sapier |
argh that damn intel parallels studio is 3.2gb ... I'm on a 6mbit "broadband" line ;-) |
| 15:47 |
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| 15:58 |
xyz |
you don't have to download the whole thing |
| 15:59 |
xyz |
there's "network downloader" or whatever it's called which lets you select the parts you need |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:01 |
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| 16:18 |
sapier |
I don't usually use online installs because you can't reinstall later |
| 16:19 |
sapier |
why the hell can't thos guys just provide a http/ftp mirror instead of some godamn active download provider not beening able to resume a download |
| 16:22 |
xyz |
it seems buildcraft, all its "clones" and the developer is gone from android play store |
| 16:36 |
ShadowNinja |
xyz: #123 |
| 16:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/123 -- Make ladders an attached node by ShadowNinja · Pull Request #123 · minetest/minetest_game · GitHub |
| 16:36 |
xyz |
you didn't even try |
| 16:37 |
xyz |
that's just a title; you could've included issue name, open/closed state, tags, number of comments, short url |
| 16:38 |
ShadowNinja |
Well that involves writing a whole plugin that uses the GitHub API, this is just !web title. |
| 16:41 |
xyz |
or you can just parse some html; anyway, that's not really important |
| 16:41 |
ShadowNinja |
It seems Google got our request. Now let's get our own version out. :-) |
| 16:41 |
kahrl |
the last three parts are really redundant, can those be stripped at least? |
| 16:42 |
ShadowNinja |
Maybe... |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
I really wonder how to do a 50 client test my pc is maxed out at 10 :-( |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
not server but all the running clients |
| 16:51 |
OWNSyouAll |
you using headless clients? |
| 16:52 |
sapier |
yes |
| 16:53 |
xyz |
what do you mean by "maxed out"? |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
each client consumes 20% cpu load |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
so 10 clients --->2 cores for clients used |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
1 core is completely used by graphics client ... and 1 is left for server |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
don't have more then 4 cores ;-) |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
server (without included graphics client) could distribute to 3 cores (2 for enet) ... but of course I can't test this if there's not even a single core available ;-) |
| 17:12 |
xyz |
ShadowNinja: I |
| 17:12 |
xyz |
ShadowNinja: I'm afraid getting our version out will take a bit of time |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:13 |
ShadowNinja |
:-| |
| 17:14 |
iqualfragile |
/r/ing function returning a list of all generated mapblocks |
| 17:14 |
sapier |
hmmmm is that information available without reading whole map? |
| 17:15 |
hmmmm |
not that i'm aware of.. you need to make a custom query to get all keys |
| 17:16 |
ShadowNinja |
sqlite3 map.sqlite 'SELECT pos FROM blocks;' |
| 17:16 |
sapier |
doesn't sound like a lightweight operation? |
| 17:16 |
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| 17:16 |
iqualfragile |
sapier: its not |
| 17:17 |
xyz |
iqualfragile: what do you need it for? |
| 17:18 |
iqualfragile |
for sapier to implement some function for respawning mobspawnentities after some idiot might have accidentially /clearallobjects the whole map |
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| 17:18 |
sapier |
I'm not sure this is the right way to do it (but of course it's a way to do it) |
| 17:19 |
xyz |
idiot? clearobjects? accidentally? |
| 17:20 |
ShadowNinja |
clearobjects isn't usually accidental, I want the entities gone. |
| 17:21 |
iqualfragile |
i accidentally /clearallobjects the whole map |
| 17:21 |
sapier |
removing all the spawning entities too ;-) |
| 17:22 |
xyz |
uhh, that sounds like a hack |
| 17:23 |
sapier |
quite ... spawning entities are "active objects" that might move to server in a later step of evolution |
| 17:23 |
sapier |
actually client doesn't need to know anything about them |
| 17:24 |
xyz |
I think what you need is an api method to get all loaded blocks |
| 17:24 |
xyz |
or, better, callbacks on block load/unload |
| 17:25 |
sapier |
could be used for regenerating the spawners too ... but cause permanent load |
| 17:25 |
xyz |
nah, you won't need spawners this way |
| 17:26 |
ShadowNinja |
Block load callbacks have been proposed many times. |
| 17:26 |
nore |
xyz, I want those callbacks too |
| 17:26 |
sapier |
xyz no the on load callbacks don't replace the spawners |
| 17:26 |
xyz |
why won't they? |
| 17:26 |
sapier |
because they won't trigger spawning if a block keeps active |
| 17:27 |
xyz |
you maintain the list of interesting to you positions (spawn points), this list gets updated on block load/unload; then you can spawn mobs in on step callback |
| 17:27 |
sapier |
processing that list is one big loop causing lag |
| 17:28 |
xyz |
then you do it in the way that doesn't require processing of the whole list at once |
| 17:28 |
sapier |
of course I can always add features in lua I get for free on using a spawner entity ;-) |
| 17:29 |
xyz |
which is crude and ugly hack D: |
| 17:29 |
sapier |
no it isn't |
| 17:29 |
xyz |
and the engine anyway does the same thing |
| 17:29 |
nore |
yes it is |
| 17:30 |
sapier |
no it isn't a hack why to implement thousands of different ways to do performance quotaing? you can't even imagine sideeffects of every quota mechanism trying to be smarter then the above one |
| 17:30 |
sapier |
not talking about the overhead caused by doing the quotaing |
| 17:31 |
xyz |
it's a hack because I don't think entities were supposed to be used this way |
| 17:31 |
xyz |
there are other hacks that make use of entities |
| 17:31 |
xyz |
i.e. my signs mod, which displays text |
| 17:31 |
sapier |
so what exactly do you think entities are supposed to be used for? |
| 17:33 |
kaeza |
anything meant to be dynamic |
| 17:34 |
sapier |
please define "dynamic" |
| 17:34 |
kaeza |
I don't think signs' text or spawners fall into that category |
| 17:34 |
kaeza |
moving objects |
| 17:35 |
kaeza |
(but in the case of signs, there's no other way as you can't modify individual nodes at runtime) |
| 17:35 |
sapier |
so once something stops moving it's not supposed to be a entity? |
| 17:35 |
xyz |
those that interact with player? or the other way around |
| 17:36 |
sapier |
that's why I said in long run thespawners should evolve to not beeing sent to client ;-) |
| 17:36 |
sapier |
there's just no other lua active_object then entities right now |
| 17:40 |
sapier |
but till then imho entities are way more clean then reimlementing active objects by global onsteps |
| 17:40 |
sapier |
btw aren't blocks kept in memory as long as possible? |
| 17:42 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: is the serverlist issue fixed? |
| 17:45 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: No, it isn't. |
| 17:54 |
sapier |
is anyone investigating this issue? |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
offtopic, ive played mc pe and buildcraft a bit |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
controls for both are pain in the ass |
| 18:20 |
RealBadAngel |
it lacks LMB/RMB on the right side of the screen IMHO |
| 18:21 |
xyz |
inb4 our very own control scheme which of course will be better than both and everybody will love it |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
how different from above? |
| 18:22 |
xyz |
I found minecraft pe control scheme okay, what's wrong with it? |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
unable to light tnt with torch for example |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
simply, theres no LMB/RMB |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
or at least nothing intuitive |
| 18:24 |
xyz |
light tnt with torch? |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
make it "kaboom" |
| 18:25 |
RealBadAngel |
touching it just digs it |
| 18:25 |
xyz |
"In Minecraft Pocket Edition, you can only use flint and steel to ignite TNT" |
| 18:25 |
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| 18:25 |
RealBadAngel |
oops ;) |
| 18:26 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway the controls feels just wrong |
| 18:26 |
RealBadAngel |
left hand is almost unused |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
so what do you suggest? |
| 18:26 |
RealBadAngel |
also right hand covers jump for example |
| 18:26 |
xyz |
uhhh? |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
right hand should be used only for movement |
| 18:27 |
xyz |
how comes |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
left for lmb/rmb/jump |
| 18:27 |
RealBadAngel |
you simply cannot see the buttons when having fingers above |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
what game are you talking about now? |
| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
and its almost impossible to move and jump at the same time |
| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
mc pe and buildcraft |
| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
they share same schema |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
no |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
they use totally different schemes |
| 18:29 |
RealBadAngel |
not really, arrows and jump in the middle |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
and still, no |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
in MCPE you hold your finger on the FORWARD button |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
and when you need to jump you just move it to the jump button and then back |
| 18:30 |
xyz |
and it also autojumps so I don't see any problem here |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmz, i think im too used to keyoard and mouse then ;) |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
havent figured that out |
| 18:30 |
xyz |
yes |
| 18:30 |
xyz |
you should stop thinking about just adding mouse and keyboard since that won't work |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
but still, adding 2 action buttons on the left could be a good idea |
| 18:31 |
xyz |
what buttons? |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
lmb/rmb |
| 18:31 |
xyz |
alright, so let me ask this |
| 18:31 |
xyz |
did you play MC PE? |
| 18:32 |
RealBadAngel |
a bit |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
I see |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
you should give it another try |
| 18:32 |
RealBadAngel |
ok i will |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
first, there's no cursor on the screen |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
you just tap wherever you want to place a block |
| 18:34 |
xyz |
second, I don't think we should have left/right mouse button concept here at all |
| 18:34 |
xyz |
we should have dig, place, punch, rightclick (blame the one who has chosen this name) |
| 18:37 |
xyz |
short tap: place, long tap: dig, double tap: punch, short tap: rightclick (for items that can be rightclicked, otherwise — place) |
| 18:37 |
xyz |
for entities we should of course do punch on short tap |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
this short/long single/double is a bit confusing |
| 18:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i would rather prefer a button |
| 18:41 |
xyz |
how long have you been using touch screen device(s)? |
| 18:44 |
xyz |
and then, if you suggest adding a button does that mean that you suggest adding a cursor? like in buildcraft |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
not for long, i bought a tablet a few days ago |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
and i find controls in most of apps very unconfortable |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
touchscreen sucks, but that's what you have when you want to have a device that has nothing but a screen |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
there are android devices with other controls too for gaming |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
first of all most of them assumes one hand |
| 18:47 |
xyz |
please answer my question: and then, if you suggest adding a button does that mean that you suggest adding a cursor? like in buildcraft |
| 18:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i suggest left hand being able to move cursor/use action buttons |
| 18:48 |
xyz |
so you're suggesting to have cursor; alright, got it |
| 18:48 |
xyz |
I'm not going to implement this sort of controls but you can use my branch as a start for yours |
| 18:48 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why i bought the tablet in fact ;) |
| 18:49 |
celeron55 |
i'm having immensely hard time trying to get the virtual keyboard on the sailfish os to pop up; that thing is ridiculously undocumented |
| 18:50 |
celeron55 |
they have an implementation for qt's input system for it and just say "oh yeah you can use this via raw d-bus too; just do the same things", and then the same things give no error but no effect either |
| 18:50 |
xyz |
I think we shouldn't just have virtual keyboard pop up, we need a dialog with editbox' |
| 18:50 |
xyz |
at least, on Android; but I guess same goes for any mobile os |
| 18:51 |
xyz |
same os with a virtual keyboard, because it can overlap the input box |
| 18:51 |
xyz |
s/same/any/ |
| 18:51 |
celeron55 |
yes, probably |
| 18:52 |
RealBadAngel |
is compilation process dificult for apks? |
| 18:52 |
xyz |
RealBadAngel: in my branch you only have to grab the NDK, export ANDROID_NDK_ROOT to point at it and run build.sh |
| 18:52 |
xyz |
and if you're lucky then that's all |
| 18:52 |
celeron55 |
this contains xyz's freeminer android patches ported to minetest: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/sailfish |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
(in addition to my stuff for sailfish) |
| 18:53 |
xyz |
if you aren't then you'll have to debug the thing |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
xyz, it would be good to have some info on compiling for android added to main doc |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
it's basically a personal backup of mine though, so don't expect non-edited commit history |
| 18:53 |
RealBadAngel |
same as compiling for linux |
| 18:54 |
xyz |
it's freeminer, it's not merged anywhere yet |
| 18:55 |
xyz |
my personal branch too; do you expect it to be documented? you have an automated build script, that's all I was able to do to make your life easier |
| 18:55 |
celeron55 |
xyz: if we had an input dialog, then i'd probably just implement an optional crappy irrlicht buttons-based virtual keyboard on it for my usage |
| 18:55 |
xyz |
celeron55: awful |
| 18:56 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, i just thought bout one thing. since functionality for PE and PC will differ a lot, is it wise to have both in one tree? or maybe keep PE repository next to main one? |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
yeah; it would be just for platforms that don't work yet 8) |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: they don't differ a lot at all |
| 18:57 |
xyz |
celeron55: anyway, I guess it would be good if you could send your patches to irrlicht some day |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
what about shaders etc? |
| 18:58 |
xyz |
ahahaha |
| 18:58 |
xyz |
oh wait |
| 18:58 |
xyz |
currently light doesn't work at all |
| 19:00 |
celeron55 |
yeah, the vertex color based lighting doesn't work with ogles1 fixed pipeline nor does our shaders |
| 19:05 |
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| 19:05 |
celeron55 |
i haven't investigated why though |
| 19:06 |
celeron55 |
but ideally irrlicht should make the vertex colors work; it doesn't seem like it should be a problem |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:26 |
celeron55 |
xyz: what about the android patches? |
| 19:26 |
xyz |
what about those? |
| 19:26 |
celeron55 |
do the irrlicht devs know about those |
| 19:26 |
xyz |
yes http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49410 |
| 19:26 |
xyz |
I'll fix some stuff and update them some day |
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proller |
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Kevin.de |
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celeron55 |
lol |
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sapier |
come on those intel guys are joking parallel studio 2013 is not 64bit ready? |
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