| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:48 |
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| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
I definitely get what you guys mean about changes being random |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/proller/minetest/commit/f04c26ffc56c03ed8e0b3925877690690dc731f1 like what |
| 03:03 |
hmmmm |
whaaa https://github.com/proller/minetest/commit/77eac51f090a583f360fc3defacbb10ff276188e |
| 03:03 |
hmmmm |
it makes light "ok"? |
| 04:15 |
thexyz |
do you expect to understand contents of all commits just by looking at the branch name? |
| 04:16 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: go easy - at least he's *looking* at them |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
thexyz: I can understand the contents of 99% of other peoples' commits by looking at the name |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
the text rather |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
proller's commits are like: |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
fix |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
ok |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
works |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
light ok |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
from talking to him, I gather that those were supposed to be temporary - just something to write, before squashing.. |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
just as I often just write "foo" or "blah". |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
later, I'll squash and push when I'm satisfied wit hthe resuklt |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
with the result* |
| 04:26 |
RealBadAngel |
foo ok and blah works? ;) |
| 04:27 |
VanessaE |
:P |
| 04:41 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, i start to think that shaders rework is ready to push. ive fixed all the compability issues and the problems that popped during testing |
| 04:41 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: he even fixed the water/lava lighting glitch :) |
| 04:43 |
thexyz |
hmmmm: what you linked to is the merge commit |
| 04:44 |
thexyz |
the actual commit says a bit more while not enough still, I agree |
| 04:45 |
thexyz |
anyway I think it's pointless now |
| 04:48 |
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| 05:14 |
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| 05:43 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, I'll have to take a look at it. I can too because now I have a super good graphics card |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
as for the performance optimizations of proller's, I'd have to say of those the only one that makes sense is the packet handling cutoff, which sapier just redid earlier today. his other 'optimizations' don't really optimize anything and could potentially starve some ABMs |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
I really do not like this whole polling model that the entire minetest server is built around if you hadn't noticed it. it's prone to these kinds of problems |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
an optimal minetest server would be entirely event based |
| 05:46 |
hmmmm |
strangely enough, some people have been floating around the idea of a rewrite (well, server rewrite anyway) |
| 05:47 |
VanessaE |
not floating the idea of a rewrite - more like a "what would happen if" |
| 05:47 |
VanessaE |
in other words, at what point do you draw the line and say "this commit is just too big" or "..touches too many areas", etc |
| 05:48 |
hmmmm |
no, celeron actually asked "who wants to rewrite minetest" |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
biggest joke of the century right there^ |
| 05:49 |
hmmmm |
but there were other people who spoke of it too |
| 05:50 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, im finetuning now mainmenu settings tab and adding config examples |
| 05:50 |
RealBadAngel |
pull will be ready in half an hour or so |
| 05:50 |
hmmmm |
that's great, but I don't work on the same schedule you do |
| 05:50 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: can you explain to him how to do colors in a checkbox text label? |
| 05:51 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 05:52 |
RealBadAngel |
i figured that out already |
| 05:55 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, im using 3yrs old GPU with shaders, but having high end one will surely make them work faster |
| 06:04 |
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| 06:13 |
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| 07:07 |
celeron55 |
i find it unfair that thexyz and VanessaE try to push proller's stuff while everyone who actually knows about code is against it |
| 07:09 |
celeron55 |
oh well, i guess i made that clear already |
| 07:16 |
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| 07:19 |
thexyz |
no worries, I won't do this from now on |
| 07:20 |
celeron55 |
it is not ok to me if development stops because of grumpy old developers don't want anyone to touch their code, but that's simply not the case; we also have new core devs who have done good work |
| 07:20 |
VanessaE |
and I don't push proller's stuff - I push for pull requests to be handled in a more timely manner, regardless of their purpose |
| 07:20 |
VanessaE |
(even if that means rejecting them) |
| 07:25 |
thexyz |
"everyone who actually knows the code" says that they don't understand what this does and therefore it can't be merged |
| 07:25 |
thexyz |
i did it again, sorry |
| 07:25 |
celeron55 |
06:25:21 <+hmmmm> thexyz: I can understand the contents of 99% of other peoples' commits by looking at the name |
| 07:25 |
celeron55 |
06:25:30 <+hmmmm> the text rather |
| 07:26 |
celeron55 |
it's just a statistical fact that proller's things are way harder to understand to anyone than anyone else's |
| 07:26 |
celeron55 |
the question "why?" is completely irrelevant to that statistic |
| 07:27 |
celeron55 |
but that's just one thing again; all that has been said before is a thing too and it's a sum of all them that makes it as bad as it is |
| 07:27 |
thexyz |
okay |
| 07:31 |
celeron55 |
also, i'm trying to be careful to not make a habit of dismissing anyone who does wide changes to the codebase; but if someone does that, it has much higher quality criteria than some local change or addition |
| 08:59 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: please rebase the sqlite rollback code if you could. Doesn't apply against current HEAD (fails in chatcommands.lua and lua_api.txt) |
| 08:59 |
VanessaE |
er strike that, l_rollback.cpp is the failure |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:10 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 09:14 |
proller |
now i writing better commit messages, and will never do more squashes |
| 09:58 |
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| 17:47 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: sqlite_rollback is rebased over current master. |
| 17:47 |
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| 17:48 |
ShadowNinja |
So who's going to look over #1001? :-) |
| 17:53 |
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| 17:53 |
sapier |
proller is in #895 really both necessary break loop by count and time? If I understand correct there are onl two reasons why the number could break the loop 1) more than 1000 receives are processed in less time than server loop (so why stop processing?) and 2) a single processing repeatedly takes enough time to cause a numeric overflow in timer calculation .... I guess in this situation breaking after 1000 timer overflows wont help eith |
| 17:56 |
thexyz |
hint: he's not here |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
I know I was hoping he reads log |
| 17:57 |
thexyz |
seriously? |
| 17:57 |
thexyz |
instead of writing a comment at this issue which he'll get notified about |
| 17:57 |
thexyz |
you hope he reads the log |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
I still believ in ppl beeing good |
| 17:57 |
thexyz |
since when being good means reading all logs? |
| 17:58 |
thexyz |
that's pointless and generally is a waste of time |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
ok you're right I'm gonna copy this to the closed pull request |
| 17:58 |
thexyz |
that's better |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
but noone else will realize it |
| 17:59 |
thexyz |
why? |
| 17:59 |
thexyz |
everyone gets emailed |
| 18:00 |
sapier |
you're right all core devs automaticaly get all comments ... wasn't aware of this |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
btw thexyz as you do obviously strongly support proller what about helping getting his work in shape for merge? |
| 18:06 |
thexyz |
I've been told I don't actually "know the code", so I doubt I'll be of any help |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
don't be childish you know how to write good code and can distinguish nonsense or multifeature commits from valid ones too |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
none of us is perfect that's why we need as much ppl to review as possible |
| 18:08 |
ShadowNinja |
I think that minetest.after should be guaranteed to call the function if the server doesn't do down before it is called. |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
regular shutdown or crash? |
| 18:23 |
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| 18:26 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Either. |
| 18:26 |
sapier |
then it's not what I understand as "guarantee" either it's done or not ... at least if nothing unexpected like crash happens |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
don't say crashes in minetest aren't unexpectet ... :-) |
| 18:29 |
ShadowNinja |
Fair enough. |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:39 |
ShadowNinja |
I converted a bunch of C++->Lua calls to table.insert and lua_newtable to lua_createtable (pre-allocation) and lua_push* + lua_settable in the rollback function. |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
sorry need to see this but sounds reasonable |
| 18:41 |
ShadowNinja |
Hmmm, the client can handle 1000 messages in a few seconds and 100 is instant. Perhaps the /rollback log limit should be raised from 10. |
| 18:41 |
ShadowNinja |
I haven't profiled the table changes, but it should be a lot faster. |
| 18:48 |
sapier |
the less we switch from lua <-> c++ the better |
| 18:57 |
celeron55 |
hmm |
| 18:59 |
PilzAdam |
ShadowNinja, some of my mods rely on the fact that is not called after a shutdown |
| 19:00 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: How do they? |
| 19:03 |
PilzAdam |
https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/0bdca483d87eb96b0123 this would run fct twice a second after a restart |
| 19:04 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: No, that would (or should) run once every second after the server starts. |
| 19:05 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: Of course on_globalstep would be a better way to do that. |
| 19:05 |
PilzAdam |
of course, but Im pretty sure some mods use it that way |
| 19:06 |
PilzAdam |
if one fct() is in the queue on a shutdown, then and it runs at the next startup then it triggers another fct cascade (besides the one that is triggered in line 5) |
| 19:06 |
PilzAdam |
-then |
| 19:07 |
ShadowNinja |
PilzAdam: functions registered with minetest.after are not saved across restarts, and we aren't talking about adding that. |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
shadow I'm not qute sure if I understand what you want to change is there a way a minetest.after function is skipped atm? |
| 19:12 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yes, if the server shuts down before the timer hits 0. |
| 19:13 |
PilzAdam |
ah, you want it this wa |
| 19:13 |
PilzAdam |
+y |
| 19:13 |
sapier |
and you want to execute them on server shutdown instead of skippinng? |
| 19:13 |
PilzAdam |
wouldnt that fct() create an infinite loop at the shutdown then? |
| 19:13 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: proller's code adds a "And there are less than 100 entries in the timer queue" clause to that. |
| 19:14 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: I simple disagree with limiting it to 100 timers. |
| 19:14 |
sapier |
I thought that one would just limit maximum number of timers per step to 100 |
| 19:14 |
ShadowNinja |
+y |
| 19:14 |
sapier |
but I may have understood this wrong |
| 19:15 |
* ShadowNinja |
double-checks |
| 19:16 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Hmmm, yes. But that should be added after "timer.time = timer.time - dtime" IMO. |
| 19:17 |
sapier |
too many time in this single sentence shadow ;-) |
| 19:19 |
sapier |
hmm as you tell there really is a problem as all follow up timers are delayed by this code |
| 19:20 |
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| 19:20 |
sapier |
if we want to skip timers we need two loops first one decrementing remaining time only second one executing functions for timers that have timed out |
| 19:21 |
sapier |
and even this way will result in timers running longer than intended |
| 19:22 |
sapier |
timer definition needs to be changed to "run timer after at least <specified time> has passsed" |
| 19:28 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55: http://minetest.net/screenshots |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
It's the first thing I'd look for |
| 19:30 |
PilzAdam |
you manged to take some of the most boring screenshots |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
oh good, you collected all the screenshots that were uploaded there |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
it looks pretty good |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
(but there could be more interesting screenshots) |
| 19:31 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, I will add some more |
| 19:31 |
rubenwardy |
More interesting, like animals, buildings, etc |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
also we should remove the most boring ones |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
just a tight bunch of good shots |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
and by good i also mean very varied |
| 19:33 |
rubenwardy |
I would suggest this for a building: http://i.imgur.com/BZVdc4C.jpg |
| 19:33 |
rubenwardy |
but meh |
| 19:33 |
PilzAdam |
theres a big shadhow glitch |
| 19:33 |
celeron55 |
if it's the only shot from such an angle, it's fine |
| 19:34 |
sapier |
it's good ... but room for improvement too |
| 19:34 |
rubenwardy |
Categories, one from each I suggest: building, terrain generation, mesecons, farming, texture packs, (sub)games, etc |
| 19:35 |
rubenwardy |
Should we go else where? http://i.imgur.com/pvbcvJl.png |
| 19:36 |
sapier |
but we should specify the (most relevant) mod involved |
| 19:36 |
celeron55 |
(we should write on the top of the screenshots page very clearly that half of the stuff shown is from various mods) |
| 19:36 |
celeron55 |
or, well, under each screenshots would be fine too, with a link |
| 19:36 |
celeron55 |
but the problem is that it will then look like a mod gallery |
| 19:36 |
PilzAdam |
http://mg.viewskew.com/mgoblin_media/media_entries/28/Mountain1.png or http://mg.viewskew.com/mgoblin_media/media_entries/57/Mountain2.png for terrain? |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
http://i.imgur.com/qqU1IDb.png |
| 19:37 |
celeron55 |
maybe a collective "Mods used in screenshots: link1, link2, link3, link4" |
| 19:38 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: that's pretty good (terrain and nature) |
| 19:38 |
ShadowNinja |
From my server. :-) I'l fix the shadow glitch... |
| 19:38 |
rubenwardy |
in the categories, append: mining, nature(animals) |
| 19:38 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, my favorite so far. |
| 19:38 |
celeron55 |
for nature, some shot from the eden or whatever game that includes undergrowth and moretrees will do good |
| 19:39 |
celeron55 |
i'd aim for having exactly 9 screenshots |
| 19:40 |
rubenwardy |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=113976#p113976 is quite interesting. |
| 19:43 |
ShadowNinja |
Hmmm, the shadow doesn't want to go. |
| 19:46 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: //replace air default:torch; //replace default:torch air got it. |
| 19:47 |
rubenwardy |
now fix the whole map: //pos1 -30000,-30000,-30000;//pos2 30000,30000,30000;//replace air default:torch;//replace default:torch air |
| 19:47 |
rubenwardy |
Have fun! |
| 19:48 |
ShadowNinja |
Ehm, sorry, but I don't have 5TB RAM, and i'm still using SQLite... |
| 19:48 |
ShadowNinja |
;-) |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
13 core devs! :O |
| 19:49 |
sapier |
oops who is #13? |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
Including c55 |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
http://minetest.net/contributors |
| 19:50 |
ShadowNinja |
I think Jeija no longer qualifies as active... |
| 19:51 |
sapier |
what's a kudo? |
| 19:52 |
PilzAdam |
"Kudo may be an erroneous singular of the word kudos" |
| 19:52 |
PilzAdam |
"Kudos (from the Ancient Greek: κῦδος) is acclaim or praise for exceptional achievement." |
| 19:52 |
sapier |
ahhh .... greek :-) |
| 19:54 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel do your recent shader fixes fix the black inventory cube problem with bumpmapping in 0.4.8 too? |
| 19:59 |
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| 22:24 |
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| 22:30 |
ShadowNinja |
Can someone check #1001? |
| 22:33 |
sapier |
difficult to tell if this is right or not did someone (except you) test it? |
| 22:33 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Vanessa has been running it for a few weeks. |
| 22:34 |
ShadowNinja |
Or two weeks I suppose. |
| 22:34 |
sapier |
activly using it or just having it in there? |
| 22:34 |
VanessaE |
mostly it's just there - I don't have to roll back that often |
| 22:34 |
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| 22:35 |
sapier |
but you did at least once (preferably multiple times) with this changes in? |
| 22:36 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: She tried /rollback check. |
| 22:36 |
sapier |
you do time calculations in there is either sure no nimeric overflow can happen or it doesn't cause anything bad? |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
rollback check is extremely fast. insanely so. |
| 22:38 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: It uses time_t, which should be large enough to hold a time value. |
| 22:38 |
sapier |
hmm it's time_t and it's seconds only .. I guess it's almost impossible to get a numeric overflow within game runtime |
| 22:39 |
sapier |
I'm fine with it |
| 22:41 |
sapier |
but I'm not sure if the astyle file should be added this way ;-) |
| 22:41 |
ShadowNinja |
<ShadowNinja> VanessaE: Try /rollback_check 10000 10000000 now :-) <VanessaE> holy shit <VanessaE> that was INSTANT |
| 22:41 |
sapier |
if it's intended to be a official requirement I miss decision ... and of course noone will realize it if it's merged without a separate commit |
| 22:42 |
* ShadowNinja |
turns his backlog fetch amount back down from 10000. |
| 22:42 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: I can split is into another commit. It isn't a requirement, but simply a tool that some people may find usefull. |
| 22:43 |
ShadowNinja |
it* |
| 22:43 |
sapier |
I understand but if you want to promote it for others to recognize a separate commit would be more usefull too |
| 22:44 |
sapier |
does indent=tab=8 mean tab is 8 spaces? |
| 22:45 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yes, astyle.conf removed from the pull request. |
| 22:45 |
sapier |
8 spaces????? |
| 22:45 |
sapier |
are you serious? |
| 22:45 |
sapier |
I've never seen anyone use 8 spaces for tab for ages? |
| 22:46 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yes, check the Linux kernel coding style guidelines. |
| 22:46 |
* ShadowNinja |
uses a tab width of 8. |
| 22:46 |
sapier |
kernel isn't always best thing ... 8 spaces and 80 chars are quite difficult |
| 22:46 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: The limit is 90 chars. |
| 22:47 |
sapier |
those 10 don't make a difference ;-P |
| 22:47 |
sapier |
80 is limit 90 is grace for those 2 chars that don't fit into 80 ;-) |
| 22:49 |
sapier |
guess we need to discuss what exact values to use ... my personal opinion is 8 spaces for tab is crazy ;-) |
| 22:50 |
sapier |
github seems to display eve 2 spaces only |
| 22:50 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: You can configure your editor to whatever width you like, but the width of 8 is used by astyle for purposes of allignment. |
| 22:50 |
ShadowNinja |
Yes, that should be at least four. |
| 22:51 |
ShadowNinja |
Well, they show 2 in diffs, but 8 in the file viewer. |
| 22:51 |
sapier |
I usually don't accept the "your editor can fix it" argument as everyone uses a different one some do this thing better other that |
| 22:52 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: What astyle uses internally has nothing to do with how the code displays in a editor. |
| 22:52 |
sapier |
that explains why I always have to move github code to my big monitor ... imho it's waste of space |
| 22:53 |
ShadowNinja |
Anyway, this really doesn't have anythng to do with #1001 anymore. |
| 22:53 |
sapier |
As we yous tabs at line start only you're probably right |
| 22:53 |
sapier |
-yous + use |
| 22:54 |
sapier |
no I already agreed to 1001 this is completely independent |
| 22:55 |
ShadowNinja |
OK. |
| 22:55 |
sapier |
LUA: for i=1, #state_table, 1 do does anyone know it "#state_table" would be evaluated at each loop or only once? |
| 22:57 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Only once. |
| 22:58 |
sapier |
hope you're wrong |
| 23:03 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Why? Do you want to change the table in the loop? |
| 23:04 |
sapier |
exactly I want to randomly select a element of state table |
| 23:05 |
sapier |
but I don't know if that element will be used and if not I want to try another one |
| 23:06 |
sapier |
but seems to work now ... reasing from table via table.erase did the trick |
| 23:11 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: table.erase? Do you mean table.remove or t[i] = nil? |
| 23:11 |
sapier |
table.remove |
| 23:12 |
sapier |
t[i] doesn't really remove the element |
| 23:14 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: t[i] = nil removes the element, table.remove aditionally shifts everything after that index down. |
| 23:15 |
sapier |
yes so t[i] removes only content but not internal reference |
| 23:16 |
sapier |
the table structure/linkage isn't changed |
| 23:20 |
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djdduty joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:21 |
ShadowNinja |
src/rollback.cpp | 1235 +- Grrr, I must find a way to remove one changed line. ;-) |
| 23:39 |
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sapier left #minetest-dev |
