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proller |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/895/files - now with annoying timers reset (prevent server 100% cpu use and lag) |
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proller |
hmmmm, weather broken month ago.. |
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| 16:00 |
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| 16:01 |
nore |
PilzAdam, so, what were your thoughts on #966? |
| 16:04 |
rubenwardy |
Merge commits into one (Add callback to register on craft) commit? |
| 16:04 |
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| 16:05 |
nore |
rubenwardy, I heard that the one who commits can do that |
| 16:05 |
nore |
but I can do it if needed too |
| 16:05 |
rubenwardy |
ok |
| 16:05 |
nore |
anyway, PilzAdam wanted to test it, but I don't know what was the result of his tests |
| 16:06 |
nore |
so I'm waiting for him (and yes, that was deliberately a ping) |
| 16:14 |
nore |
PilzAdam, ^ |
| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
what's the deal with the vector lib bug? (shadow's fix is here: http://ix.io/8MK ) |
| 16:15 |
nore |
waiting, as usual... ;) |
| 16:15 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: No, that doesn't fix your issue, it just catches more, unlikely, cases. |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
oh. |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
bummer :-/ |
| 16:27 |
nore |
why doesn't PilzAdam answer? |
| 16:27 |
nore |
:( |
| 16:30 |
proller |
nore, current average pull merge time = ~6 months |
| 16:30 |
proller |
just wait 8) |
| 16:32 |
nore |
proller, he tested my pull... |
| 16:32 |
nore |
but no answer since then |
| 16:33 |
proller |
okay, just 3 months if tested |
| 16:33 |
nore |
PilzAdam, do you read that? |
| 16:34 |
thexyz |
anyone tested that android port? is it legit? |
| 16:36 |
nore |
thexyz, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=116136#p116136 |
| 16:36 |
nore |
looks like it is |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
I ain't paying three bucks to download a hacked-and-retextured copy of minecraft.... |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
(which is probably what that thing is) |
| 16:39 |
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| 16:39 |
thexyz |
okay, I'll do it then |
| 16:43 |
thexyz |
nice thread though |
| 16:45 |
thexyz |
no one knows what license minetest is |
| 16:46 |
nore |
it is LGPL, isn't it? |
| 16:46 |
Exio4 |
no idea who posted the GPL there |
| 16:46 |
nore |
so modified version has to have its source code published... |
| 16:46 |
Exio4 |
but that part applies to MT |
| 16:49 |
nore |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/966 <-- any thoughts on this? |
| 16:50 |
thexyz |
hmmm |
| 16:51 |
nore |
what? |
| 16:51 |
|
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| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
hm? |
| 16:54 |
nore |
thexyz, what? |
| 16:55 |
thexyz |
this is interesting |
| 16:55 |
nore |
what is interesting? |
| 16:59 |
thexyz |
uh so confusing |
| 16:59 |
thexyz |
what should we do with that topic |
| 17:00 |
|
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| 17:00 |
thexyz |
I guess the guy should publish modifications to minetest but he's free to not publish his own code (i.e. wrappers around it) |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:01 |
VanessaE |
but is it legit? |
| 17:02 |
thexyz |
well let's see |
| 17:02 |
thexyz |
it appears to be |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
Does google play have content testing? |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
ie: moderators check content |
| 17:04 |
thexyz |
okay |
| 17:04 |
thexyz |
I got to the main menu |
| 17:04 |
nore |
is it real minetest? |
| 17:11 |
Sokomine |
i still have client crashes when typing longer text in the client |
| 17:11 |
nore |
thexyz, is it minetest, or something else that looks like it |
| 17:11 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: ditto,. |
| 17:12 |
nore |
Sokomine, what size? |
| 17:12 |
Sokomine |
it's not as bad as it used to be in much older versions but it definitely became a problem again |
| 17:12 |
Sokomine |
longer sentence. can't pinpoint it to a certain length |
| 17:12 |
Sokomine |
rubenwardy: no, they don't test |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
I wonder about the texture pack he put in there - HDX is GFDL... I personally don't care if he uses it, but is that license commercial-compatible? |
| 17:13 |
Sokomine |
they're probably going to remove apps that they see as a too severe threat to their business modell - but all that happens afterwards. there's no prior testing |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: then they'll probably yank this since it's programmable...... |
| 17:14 |
VanessaE |
(actually I don't know if that's true for Google, but it sure was for Apple at one time) |
| 17:15 |
Sokomine |
no, programmable is not the problem |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 17:15 |
Sokomine |
guess only what goes too much against advertising/user tracking is considered a threat :-) |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
oh heh |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
true :P |
| 17:16 |
Sokomine |
but there are alternative stores. you can place an app almost everywhere. and if the user trusts you, it can be installed |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
which makes me wonder why he didn't just publish the apk on the forum. |
| 17:16 |
Sokomine |
setting up an android phone is a lot of work. at least it can be done to some degree. it's amazing how much tracking is involved |
| 17:28 |
thexyz |
meh meh |
| 17:28 |
thexyz |
what should we do about this topic |
| 17:29 |
VanessaE |
leave it be for now. |
| 17:29 |
VanessaE |
let's just see where it goes |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
I'm not going to remove it |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
just some replies |
| 17:29 |
VanessaE |
oh |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
like https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=116139#p116139 |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
which is against the rules |
| 17:29 |
VanessaE |
ehm |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
or maybe not against the rules, dunno, didn't read them |
| 17:30 |
VanessaE |
well I guess toss the couple of unhelpful posts in the trash |
| 17:30 |
VanessaE |
(afaik the rules don't specifically prohibit PilzAdam's post as such) |
| 17:32 |
thexyz |
well that's what celeron55 wanted |
| 17:32 |
thexyz |
iirc |
| 17:33 |
thexyz |
when he decided to switch to lgpl |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 17:33 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: I think it does but probably less strict than apple |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
the question about the logo doesn't quite make sense though |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
why the whole package but not it's most well-known piece of IP? |
| 17:36 |
thexyz |
I failed to parse the last sentence, sorry |
| 17:38 |
VanessaE |
someone complains that the minetest logo is not usable by this project, despite being the most recognizable part of the game/engine, yet the engine itself is legal for commercial use? (source code availability aside) |
| 17:38 |
VanessaE |
IP == Intellectual Property, marketsp33k for stuff you made. :) |
| 17:38 |
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| 17:39 |
thexyz |
I don't know what's the license of the logo |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.txt#L262 |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
if you consider it a texture then cc-by-sa 3.0, not -nc |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:41 |
VanessaE |
this does need to be spelled out a little more clearly in the readme though. |
| 17:49 |
rubenwardy_ |
License for logo: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=63922#p63922 |
| 17:49 |
rubenwardy |
Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 by Nils Dagsson Moskopp / erlehmann |
| 17:53 |
thexyz |
that's ok then |
| 17:53 |
thexyz |
if that erlehmann is legit, of course |
| 17:56 |
celeron55 |
well |
| 17:56 |
celeron55 |
that's an interesting thing to pop up |
| 17:57 |
rubenwardy |
hmmm |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
i wonder how trademark stuff goes here; minetest can very probably be expected to be a name of something approved by me or the core team or something |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
i don't mind someone using the code; but someone using the name for their advantage is wrong |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
also they couldn't possibly have made those UI controls with the existing LGPL code, so they must publis whatever they did to make it happen |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
+h |
| 18:06 |
celeron55 |
and google isn't helpful at all in resolving these kinds of things |
| 18:07 |
celeron55 |
because obviously they want to make money rather than talk about issues |
| 18:07 |
thexyz |
well the guy's from china |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
google play's documents say they follow the U.S. law |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:09 |
thexyz |
oh right |
| 18:09 |
thexyz |
assuming google would care you can ask them to remove it |
| 18:12 |
celeron55 |
dunno really; i wonder what course of action might take most sense |
| 18:12 |
celeron55 |
make* |
| 18:14 |
celeron55 |
maybe i should e-mail that guy and see what he's up to |
| 18:14 |
celeron55 |
i wouldn't really expect any kind of respect towards anyone though |
| 18:16 |
celeron55 |
it's not right to excessively hunt down ports like that; but we should define what is the minimum that they have to do in order to be acceptable |
| 18:16 |
celeron55 |
otherwise it's all just unfair and everyone loses interest in porting |
| 18:19 |
celeron55 |
i could send an email asking that instead of money, they should contribute back all changes they have done to LGPL code, and if they won't link to this official project nor give credits, they are not allowed to use the name |
| 18:19 |
celeron55 |
it's fucking lame that they have simply removed the credits tab from the menu |
| 18:19 |
celeron55 |
it's like a direct "fuck you" towards minetest |
| 18:21 |
celeron55 |
hmm, i could ask for help from some of these past minetest contributors that have more legal interests (i.e. GPL advocates) |
| 18:35 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: did you or someone try to buy and check it? |
| 18:35 |
celeron55 |
i'm going to report to gnu.org, but i need some solid information for that |
| 18:36 |
celeron55 |
https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html |
| 18:38 |
celeron55 |
the LGPL does not require a distributor to give anything for free; but of course it can be assumed that the android download only contains the binaries and no extra information |
| 18:38 |
thexyz |
celeron55: yeah, I bought it |
| 18:39 |
celeron55 |
what came with it? |
| 18:39 |
celeron55 |
can you make a list of files or something |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE |
screw that, post the apk :) |
| 18:40 |
thexyz |
celeron55: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MA1M0La5 |
| 18:42 |
thexyz |
it's like supertuxcart |
| 18:42 |
thexyz |
but source seems to be modified |
| 18:42 |
VanessaE |
HDX is slightly out-of-date in this listing but not by much. |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
hmm |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
what kind of a construction is this |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
there's libMine.so |
| 18:44 |
thexyz |
yeah |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
and... gdbserver |
| 18:44 |
thexyz |
well that's how it works |
| 18:44 |
VanessaE |
gdb as in gnu debug? |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
where's the actual executable in apks? |
| 18:45 |
thexyz |
android jni and stuff |
| 18:45 |
Exio4 |
so.. it is real? wow. |
| 18:45 |
thexyz |
native code is compiled to a library and then it's called from java code |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
okay, that makes sense |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
so it's probably largely intact and they just call the equivalent of main() |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
I guess it's real |
| 18:46 |
thexyz |
it's too slow to be considered playable on my galaxy nexus though |
| 18:46 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:47 |
thexyz |
well, local game, didn't try multiplayer |
| 18:47 |
thexyz |
interface seems to be the only thing which is heavily modified |
| 18:47 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: I dare you to try it on my survival server ;) |
| 18:48 |
thexyz |
I can't enter any text so this is not happening |
| 18:48 |
VanessaE |
your post about that on the forum is unclear |
| 18:48 |
PilzAdam |
can you modify minetest.conf? |
| 18:48 |
thexyz |
yes |
| 18:54 |
thexyz |
celeron55: shouldn't you try to contact the OP before reporting it to gnu guys? |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
i'm still considering what to do |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
frankly I think the best thing to do is offer some kind of license agreement and request, politely, that the credits tab be reinstated. |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
chinese are very hung up on "saving face" |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
give him a chance to do so |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
(or so I understand) |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
we have a (poorly understood, barely heeded) phrase here that you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar :) |
| 19:02 |
celeron55 |
i'm not planning to make any kind of public shaming out of this; but also i don't want to do any nonsense because of being inexperienced |
| 19:03 |
celeron55 |
and also i don't want to waste much time on this |
| 19:04 |
thexyz |
you already did |
| 19:04 |
celeron55 |
nope |
| 19:04 |
celeron55 |
also i wouldn't do anything useful at the moment anyway |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
well seeing as how minetest is really more of a team effort now, |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
(oops) |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
..why does it have to necessarily fall on you anyway? |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
well i'm open to people taking this task to themselves |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
but i do probably have the most knowledge about overall licenses of minetest and stuff |
| 19:08 |
VanessaE |
true |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
there's an issue with reporting this to FSF, because how they seem to generally handle these things is that if stuff is that they handle it themselves if the copyright has been given to them, and otherwise report to whoever has the copyright |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
but MT's copyright is whoever's who happened to make a piece of stuff |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
... |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
an open letter, drafted in a private wiki page or google docs or something similar, signed-off by several of the core devs maybe, and sent to him from some neutral party? |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
i wrote complete nonsense in that previous line and can't even understand what the excess or missing part is |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
no worries, what you wrote does make sense. |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
8D |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
send to... who? what'd that be about? |
| 19:12 |
VanessaE |
well to who would be the guy managing the package e.g. this penguin03 fellow. |
| 19:12 |
thexyz |
I was only able to understand it in O(N^2) complexity but that's ok |
| 19:12 |
thexyz |
just post on forum |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
that's not what i meant or what the fsf does |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
as for what it would be about....erm... that's up for discussion :D |
| 19:13 |
celeron55 |
https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html |
| 19:13 |
celeron55 |
"Note that the GPL, and other copyleft licenses, are copyright licenses. This means that only the copyright holders are empowered to act against violations. The FSF acts on all GPL violations reported on FSF copyrighted code, and we offer assistance to any other copyright holder who wishes to do the same" |
| 19:13 |
celeron55 |
that's what i meant |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
ah, yeah see we need to void that yet. |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
it's too soon to launch a copy[right|left] tirade |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
avoid* |
| 19:14 |
VanessaE |
but maybe I'm a little biased on that |
| 19:14 |
celeron55 |
i'm not launching anything, i'm trying to understand (and make others understand) who is the one who has the legal right to that |
| 19:14 |
VanessaE |
copyright noise is just overwhelming in the USA :-/ |
| 19:15 |
VanessaE |
well technically, anyone whose code was used has that right, according to case law in the USA anyways. Other countries' mileage (kilometerage?) will vary. |
| 19:16 |
thexyz |
most (all?) code is marked as >Copyright (C) 2010-2013 celeron55 |
| 19:16 |
thexyz |
so that's you |
| 19:16 |
VanessaE |
<offtopic> In other news, "Tea Party Activists Praise Ted Cruz as the New Jesus Christ" </offtopic> |
| 19:17 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: that's what the bytes in the files say, but i don't think that's legally binding at all |
| 19:18 |
celeron55 |
because leaving those there is basically a mindless habit |
| 19:18 |
thexyz |
now, now, gnu guys would've already told you that you shouldn't treat this as a "mindless habit" since it's that important and stuff |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: they are, depending on who makes a claim and where it is filed. |
| 19:18 |
celeron55 |
anyway by contacting fsf, we'd be asking for assistance rather than a court case |
| 19:23 |
VanessaE |
thing is, if you do that you have no way of knowing just how litigious they are (or would be)... it could backfire drastically |
| 19:23 |
VanessaE |
(s/you/someone/) |
| 19:45 |
celeron55 |
looking more into this, we probably should include a mentiong about LGPL in the credits tab of the engine |
| 19:45 |
celeron55 |
-g |
| 19:45 |
celeron55 |
also we don't distribute the lgpl license terms with our binaries 8) |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
there seem to be basically two issues with the android thing |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
1) they don't include any license and copyright information about the engine |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
2) they don't provide the source code |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
(that is derived from the original LGPL source) |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
any others? |
| 19:53 |
celeron55 |
there is no legal requirement for a credits tab, but i will mention it as a separate thing |
| 19:53 |
celeron55 |
this will be going to the android port developer |
| 19:58 |
* sfan5 |
sees android and reads the backlog |
| 19:59 |
thexyz |
what about the name? |
| 20:04 |
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| 20:10 |
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sapier joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:13 |
* celeron55 |
came back from sauna |
| 20:13 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: the name goes in the same "section of things" as the credits |
| 20:13 |
celeron55 |
really, LGPL is a strict set of rules the following of which is really just a mechanical task |
| 20:14 |
celeron55 |
but credits and other things can probably be tied to allowance of using the name "Minetest" |
| 20:15 |
celeron55 |
that is, if you don't give credits or don't otherwise respect the community, your product can't use the name |
| 20:15 |
sapier |
wait wasn't the difference between lgpl and gpl that lgpl doesn't require user to give his modifications back? |
| 20:15 |
celeron55 |
sapier: lol no 8D |
| 20:16 |
Exio4 |
no, lgpl means you can use? it with a closed program without having to opensource under GPL the first |
| 20:16 |
sapier |
hmm ok so I should update my knowledge about lgpl :) |
| 20:16 |
Exio4 |
i don't know how lgpl applies to programs |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
it depends on how the modifications are done, and in this case they couldn't have been done in a way that does not mandate any code release |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
or, well, *modifications* are exactly what needs to be released |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
but if you'd modify minetest to be a library and used that from a program, you'd only need to release the... eh, modifications |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
just read the license; no need to argue about it here |
| 20:17 |
sapier |
ok I guess they didn't write their own main application calling our code so they most likely modified it |
| 20:18 |
celeron55 |
however, do people agree about this thing i said about the "Minetest" name? |
| 20:19 |
celeron55 |
in legal terms it's really a trademark issue rather than a copyright issue |
| 20:19 |
sapier |
yea but I'm almost sure none of us did register minetest as trademark ... it's not cheapest thing to do |
| 20:20 |
sapier |
still maybe it's enough to write those guys a friendly mail to gently push them into right direction ;-) |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
at least in finland you don't need to register a trademark |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
if you use it consistently (like Minetest is used), it's your trademark and you have the rights to it as a trademark |
| 20:21 |
sapier |
you don't? great :-) |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
you can register them if you want though |
| 20:21 |
sapier |
I'm not sure if this is true for germany too ... and I'm almost sure it's wrong for us and brasil |
| 20:30 |
kahrl |
afaik it's true in germany ("Gebrauchsmarke") |
| 20:30 |
kahrl |
although i can't find anything about it atm |
| 20:32 |
sapier |
could be but I don't think we'd have resources to fight for it if someone else would register minetest as tm |
| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
good thing it's such a bad name nobody will |
| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
8D |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
yea no commercial project wants to have a "test" in it's name :) |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
except test tools maybe |
| 20:33 |
celeron55 |
if you have excess pocket money, you can register it for yourself in your country though :P |
| 20:36 |
kahrl |
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/markeng/__4.html 2. |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
in US I guess registration is not necessary but it is encouraged |
| 20:37 |
sapier |
hmm not sure if we meet requirements for "geschäftlicher verkehr" ... but I don't want to lern legals :-) |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
( ™ vs. ® ) |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
but law here says you DO have to defend it. |
| 20:38 |
celeron55 |
the US law is well known for useless lawsuits defending trademarks in weird situations 8) |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
so if you don't blame others for abuse you don't have it any longer |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
:D |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
maybe we should take minecraft in court just in case |
| 20:39 |
sapier |
if that happens we can rename to "tgfnm" ... no one ever wants to use that name |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
i have $100 in donations, that should be enough |
| 20:39 |
kahrl |
better spend it on beer |
| 20:40 |
celeron55 |
(it's likely eventually going towards hosting costs, if somebody got concerned) |
| 20:41 |
Exio4 |
but.. beer :( |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
fuck the beer, what about the pizza? :) |
| 20:42 |
Exio4 |
beer+pizza VanessaE |
| 20:43 |
PilzAdam |
s/ /=/ |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
I hate beer :P |
| 20:43 |
sapier |
hmm trademark registration in germany is at least 300 eur |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
USD $159 here |
| 20:44 |
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| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
no, strike that. $159 + $325 |
| 20:45 |
sapier |
wow ... if you want to keep a tm after 100 years they want 750 eur for additional 10 years |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
O.o |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
yes 300 eur is only if your tm is valid in 3 classes only but if it's automaticaly added to other classes it's additional 100 eur per class |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
and 260 for additional 10 years per class |
| 20:49 |
sapier |
I don't think that's a real option |
| 20:49 |
celeron55 |
http://pastebin.com/uqiA099d |
| 20:50 |
celeron55 |
good enough, and anything to add? |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: s/incompliances/non-compliant things/ |
| 20:52 |
celeron55 |
is that really an appropriate edit? sounds clumsy |
| 20:52 |
sapier |
I'd not insist on the credits tab in this special form |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
line 35/36 reads a bit odd in English, but no matter. The rest is good. |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
incompliance is not a word :) |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
sapier: why? |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
non-compliance is the usual term |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
e.g. if credits are shown on each start that would be fine too ;-) |
| 20:54 |
celeron55 |
ah, i thought it would be obvious that it doesn't really matter in which exact form they are |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
maybe I understood wrong but I read that as credits have to be shown as credits tab |
| 20:55 |
PilzAdam |
I like the idea of "PilzAdam" being shown for 30 seconds on each startup ;-) |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
8D |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
'In no circumstance it is acceptable to remove the "Credits" tab from the menu without replacing it with something equivalently visible' |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
the beginning of that is silly |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
'It is not acceptable to remove the "Credits" tab from the menu without replacing it with something equivalently visible' |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
better |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
yes |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
wait |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
you could have also written, "Under no circumstances is it ..." |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
you could replace credits tab by "reciep for banana fish soup" still following words of that sentence |
| 20:58 |
sapier |
as banana fish soup is "something" |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
that much is true |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
"something" is too vague |
| 20:58 |
celeron55 |
lol |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
remind me later to get rubenwardy to make a banana-fish soup for the food mod :D |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
"replacing it with equivalently visible credits"? |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
kik |
| 20:59 |
Exio4 |
haha |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
ähh lol |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
but, like, is there anything to add to this? |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
is this all we need? |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
I don't think we can demand much more |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
I think this is enough. "equivalently-visible credits section or screen." |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
(hyphen, and you need the extra noun) |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
btw if they don't follow this I guess next step is to file an issue to google is it? |
| 21:01 |
celeron55 |
i'll contact the FSF then |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
ok I guess they know what to do |
| 21:01 |
celeron55 |
(google and fsf care only about part 1 though, so if they see this reasonable, it's a bonus to us) |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
but guys we're good enough to be "stolen" now ;-) |
| 21:02 |
celeron55 |
s/they/the android developers/ |
| 21:02 |
PilzAdam |
sapier, yay |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
sapier: next thing you know there will be "cracked" copies floating around on the usual torrent sites :D |
| 21:02 |
PilzAdam |
oh right, I should sell my cracked client for 10$ |
| 21:02 |
celeron55 |
yeah, our software is pirated and we don't have any reason to care |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
they want money for it so I guess thats gonna happen very soon |
| 21:03 |
celeron55 |
send the email |
| 21:03 |
celeron55 |
sent* |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
I wonder if cracking a non protected game is really a crime |
| 21:03 |
celeron55 |
(i really should sleep) |
| 21:03 |
* VanessaE |
is curious of the final copy |
| 21:03 |
celeron55 |
(i typo everything) |
| 21:04 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: it's $15 DLC! |
| 21:04 |
PilzAdam |
maybe we just get ignored |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: actually doesn't it go something, first they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they accept you, then they copy you, or some such? |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
maybe we should add trademark informations to our downloads |
| 21:05 |
celeron55 |
i changed it to asking 50% profit share and letting use the minetest name without any questions |
| 21:05 |
celeron55 |
then i'll be rich and you cry |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 21:05 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fear you, and then you win |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
I guess we're just fork in that case naming it minefinal |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
:-P |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: right, I was close at least |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
we already have the first two done and gone... :) |
| 21:06 |
PilzAdam |
well, mojang still ignores us AFAIK |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
yeah but their community sure doesn't :P |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
does someone know without trying what installer our official win32 release uses |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
? |
| 21:06 |
PilzAdam |
oh right, they laugh at us |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
pfft WE laugh at us sometimes :) |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
they won't lough at us once modstore is spread ;-P |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
thats a usp minecraft doesn't have |
| 21:08 |
celeron55 |
sapier: isn't it made by rubenwardy? |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
I don't know I'll have a look maybe I'm gonna provide different versions e.g. mingw32/vs2012/(mingw64) maybe even vs2012 64bit ... last one is very very unlikely |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
LOL http://sourceforge.net/projects/wix/ ... I guess microsoft has some sort of humor |
| 21:11 |
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| 21:13 |
celeron55 |
those sourceforge comments are absurd |
| 21:14 |
sfan5 |
oh I get it now :P |
| 21:14 |
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| 21:15 |
celeron55 |
i wonder if i should mention that email in the forum thread |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
I'd wait a little bit to not trigger to big waves maybe they did this by mistake |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
yes I know that's not very likely :) |
| 21:17 |
celeron55 |
hmm, i guess so |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
argh that damn wix thing has win8 interface ... could someone plz tell those marketing guys lack of window borders is not necessary on screens as big as 22" |
| 21:18 |
celeron55 |
they're probably thinking from a completely different perspective so dunno if they get the potential of working within the comunity at all |
| 21:21 |
thexyz |
the guy is from china |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
not very promissing |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
like I said, to the Chinese, keeping up appearances and/or "saving face" are very important. |
| 21:23 |
thexyz |
hm.. maybe, I'm not sure |
| 21:23 |
thexyz |
I only know they don't give a shit about copyright and all that stuff |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
that much is probably true |
| 21:23 |
celeron55 |
but if they do it only for the looks, it doesn't have much long-term significance |
| 21:24 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: but they probably give a shit about being banned from google play |
| 21:24 |
celeron55 |
however, my previous point stays 8) |
| 21:24 |
celeron55 |
+valid |
| 21:25 |
thexyz |
they'll just release in chinese "google" "play" |
| 21:25 |
celeron55 |
they could start following the rules, but if they follow them just because they have to be followed, that's not that fruitful |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
I guess the only way to stop this would be create a own android version |
| 21:26 |
thexyz |
in china people don't use google play |
| 21:28 |
sfan5 |
sapier: one can build and debug minetest on android |
| 21:29 |
thexyz |
see |
| 21:29 |
thexyz |
we ask them for source code |
| 21:29 |
thexyz |
then decompile their java app |
| 21:29 |
thexyz |
misson completed |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
I don't think we'll get that code |
| 21:30 |
sfan5 |
if there is no classes.dex file in the .apk there is not java code from them involved |
| 21:31 |
thexyz |
meh |
| 21:31 |
thexyz |
there of course is classes.dex |
| 21:31 |
thexyz |
but Minetest source modifications are of course much more important |
| 21:31 |
sfan5 |
^ |
| 21:31 |
thexyz |
which we're unlikely to get, as sapier says |
| 21:32 |
celeron55 |
...there could also be irrlicht source modifications |
| 21:32 |
celeron55 |
which are even more important |
| 21:32 |
sfan5 |
irrlicht works pretty well on android out of the box |
| 21:32 |
thexyz |
yep, irrlicht's already ported for android |
| 21:33 |
thexyz |
I see references to supertuxcart everywhere |
| 21:33 |
thexyz |
*supertuxkart |
| 21:33 |
sapier |
is it brave to guess that there may not be that much changes to be done to port it ? |
| 21:33 |
sfan5 |
port irrlicht? |
| 21:33 |
sapier |
port minetest |
| 21:33 |
Exio4 |
the important changes are the "touch" one, for the interface and so |
| 21:34 |
Exio4 |
if not, you will end with a quake3-like-port game that is useless without keyboard and mouse |
| 21:34 |
thexyz |
why? I don't think it's very hard |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
maybe those changes are already included in irrlicht port? (I'm just guessing without knowing right now) |
| 21:34 |
Exio4 |
what other changes would you need to do to make it run? |
| 21:35 |
sfan5 |
the minetest I compiled currently crashes and corrupts the stack after entering main() |
| 21:35 |
Exio4 |
"big changes" i mean |
| 21:35 |
sapier |
sfan5 compiled using what compiler? |
| 21:35 |
sfan5 |
the changes I made to get it to compile: https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/commit/3849334f1edfd101ef643bab5e4789814be49269 |
| 21:36 |
Exio4 |
sfan5: using the sdk, i guess? |
| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
fairly minimal changes. |
| 21:36 |
sfan5 |
sapier: crystax NDK |
| 21:36 |
sapier |
:-) why do you do it the hacky way and don't do it right ? |
| 21:36 |
sfan5 |
the official one doesn't support wchar_t completly |
| 21:36 |
sfan5 |
and something related to threads |
| 21:36 |
Exio4 |
sapier: hmm? |
| 21:37 |
sfan5 |
I just wanted to get it running |
| 21:37 |
sfan5 |
I can add if(NOT Android) to the cmake files later |
| 21:37 |
thexyz |
sapier: how do I build it? |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
^sfan5* |
| 21:37 |
sapier |
thexyz build what? |
| 21:38 |
thexyz |
I think it may be a good idea to start an article at dev wiki |
| 21:38 |
thexyz |
sapier: sorry |
| 21:38 |
thexyz |
brain doesn't work very well at 1:40 am |
| 21:38 |
sapier |
I already added my build instructions to dev wiki ;-) |
| 21:38 |
sfan5 |
thexyz: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=113987#p113987 & https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115098#p115098 |
| 21:38 |
sapier |
no problem |
| 21:38 |
thexyz |
can't english either |
| 21:38 |
sapier |
mine are for mingw32 and vs2012 (windows) |
| 21:39 |
thexyz |
sfan5: wiki article is not hard at all |
| 21:39 |
thexyz |
and you won't need to link to those random posts |
| 21:39 |
sfan5 |
ok,ok |
| 21:39 |
thexyz |
http://dev.minetest.net/Android |
| 21:40 |
thexyz |
is a nice place to start it, I guess |
| 21:41 |
thexyz |
maybe a step-by-step guide would be cool too, since you say i.e. "Use this irrCompileConfig.h" but don't tell how to |
| 21:41 |
sfan5 |
I'll do this now |
| 21:41 |
thexyz |
so I guess I have to replace it in irrlicht source tree? or something? |
| 21:41 |
thexyz |
okay, many thanks |
| 21:43 |
sfan5 |
irrCompileConfig.h lies in include/ |
| 21:55 |
proller |
also my tries to compile for opengl es https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/526 |
| 22:06 |
sapier |
great I don't need to learn wix I just use cpack :-) |
| 22:17 |
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| 22:26 |
sfan5 |
thexyz: created the page |
| 23:51 |
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