| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
PilzAdam |
I cant reproduce that on my keyboard |
| 00:05 |
PilzAdam |
it works fine |
| 00:06 |
PilzAdam |
but clearing the setting manually in minetest.conf does reproduce the crash |
| 00:07 |
|
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| 00:07 |
PilzAdam |
although its not very important when a wrong config file crashes Minetest |
| 00:07 |
diemartin |
ok |
| 00:08 |
PilzAdam |
you can of course file an issue on github, though |
| 00:11 |
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| 00:40 |
Exio4 |
there should be some safety checks |
| 00:41 |
Exio4 |
let say it should at least crash with an error saying 'fuck you' instead of the assert failing |
| 00:50 |
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| 01:03 |
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| 04:56 |
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| 05:10 |
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| 05:52 |
celeron55 |
Exio4: well assert is a safety check, but maybe there should be a safety check that tells the user that the config has an empty value |
| 05:53 |
celeron55 |
(or maybe it should just assume it means the key is disabled) |
| 06:51 |
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| 07:46 |
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| 08:18 |
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| 08:36 |
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| 09:34 |
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| 09:57 |
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| 10:55 |
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| 12:26 |
proller |
weather finished and rotted: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/892 |
| 12:56 |
celeron55 |
how about using kelvins for the groups so 0 is naturally invalid? 8) |
| 12:56 |
celeron55 |
(yes, not a good idea) |
| 12:59 |
proller |
noo |
| 12:59 |
proller |
too hard to understand |
| 12:59 |
Weedy |
why? |
| 12:59 |
Weedy |
convert C or F on config load to kelvins |
| 12:59 |
Weedy |
use kelvins in code |
| 12:59 |
Weedy |
never worry about 0 |
| 13:00 |
proller |
easier make group 0 allowed, its only one check |
| 13:00 |
celeron55 |
proller: there are some odd changes in ABMs in your patchset |
| 13:01 |
proller |
removed something unused |
| 13:01 |
celeron55 |
move those ABM changes to a separate pull request |
| 13:01 |
celeron55 |
they're not really weather stuff |
| 13:01 |
celeron55 |
there are interface changes and at least one thing the effects of which you surely haven't tested |
| 13:06 |
|
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| 13:12 |
celeron55 |
(they aren't even in a separate commit; is this really the amount of quality you expect to be accepted?) |
| 13:18 |
celeron55 |
you also get much more people to dare to look at pull requests (and that way get them merged) if the pull requests focus on logical parts in code and it's easy to check that they don't do anything unexpected |
| 13:21 |
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| 13:50 |
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| 14:01 |
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| 14:41 |
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| 14:53 |
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| 14:53 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/910 seems to be a build issue only |
| 14:54 |
|
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| 14:57 |
thexyz |
sapier: can you try to build it with VS? |
| 14:58 |
sapier |
if you can tell me where to get vs? ... I'm not very eager to build a second toolchain after working around windows issues for about 2 days to get a working mingw toolchain ;-) |
| 14:58 |
sapier |
windows is such a mess |
| 15:00 |
thexyz |
sapier: http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9709949 |
| 15:00 |
thexyz |
HAVE FUN |
| 15:00 |
|
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| 15:00 |
sapier |
couldn't someone do this who is interested in vs builds? or at least has a little bit experience? |
| 15:01 |
sapier |
I had to build some libs myself for mingw I guess this won't be a difference for vs too ... and most likely those libs are the issue why it's not working too |
| 15:01 |
sapier |
at least that's what I think |
| 15:02 |
thexyz |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6727 |
| 15:02 |
thexyz |
should ask BlockMen to do it |
| 15:02 |
thexyz |
those libs are the issue? then what've you changed to circumvent it? |
| 15:02 |
sapier |
at least we schould correct the issue title if you want proof it's not a general windows issue I can give screenshots |
| 15:02 |
sapier |
-c |
| 15:03 |
sapier |
I built them to match my toolchain |
| 15:03 |
thexyz |
better gimme working build |
| 15:04 |
sapier |
windows lib/dll/toolchain matching is quite crap most ppl use libs/dlls not maching each other but matching enough to get something compiled and linked |
| 15:04 |
sapier |
ok I'm currently updating libogg freetype and curl to latest after that I'll create a zip |
| 15:05 |
thexyz |
indeed |
| 15:05 |
thexyz |
it's possible I fucked something up in the process |
| 15:06 |
sapier |
it's not very hard to mess those windows toolchains up ... took 2 days to get a working one with all libs same time ... most time I had conflicts about version missmatches |
| 15:07 |
thexyz |
I'm not really sure what do you mean by "not maching each other" |
| 15:07 |
|
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| 15:08 |
sapier |
libs linked against same lib but different versions of that lib |
| 15:08 |
thexyz |
hm.. |
| 15:08 |
sapier |
lib not matching dll ... things like that |
| 15:09 |
|
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| 15:09 |
thexyz |
I think the only precompiled libs I used in my builds are zlib and maybe luajit |
| 15:09 |
thexyz |
hm, no, I definitely built luajit |
| 15:09 |
thexyz |
well, whatever |
| 15:09 |
sapier |
you build freetype ogg vorbis curl gettext yourself? |
| 15:10 |
sapier |
I haven't used luajit in my build ... 2.0.2 didn't compile |
| 15:11 |
thexyz |
oh, right, I didn't build gettext and freetype |
| 15:12 |
sapier |
latest gettext doesn't build too ... they fixed it in 2012 but for some insane reason that fix isn't in current version |
| 15:13 |
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| 15:13 |
sapier |
I'm about to write a tutorial for mingw ... primary for myself but I guess it'll be usefull for others too |
| 15:15 |
PilzAdam |
hm? isnt there buildbot.sh? |
| 15:16 |
sapier |
lol |
| 15:16 |
sapier |
I guess you know my opinion? |
| 15:17 |
PilzAdam |
sorry, I havent read logs yet |
| 15:17 |
sapier |
btw what's a script good for if you don't know what this script is doing ? |
| 15:17 |
sapier |
a single error or outdated url will break |
| 15:17 |
PilzAdam |
the script is easy to read and understand |
| 15:19 |
sapier |
last time I had a look at this script did dowload lots of bilary libs and dlls ... which may be even source of issue |
| 15:19 |
sapier |
but it's some time since I last had a look at it |
| 15:24 |
|
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| 15:27 |
|
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| 16:23 |
celeron55 |
is downloading binary libraries hard to understand? |
| 16:23 |
sapier |
IF and ONLY IF those really match not but usually urls aren't quite stable |
| 16:24 |
celeron55 |
you just read the name and get it from your preferred location |
| 16:24 |
sapier |
that doesn't work as you most likely wont get that exact version if you just read and download |
| 16:25 |
celeron55 |
due to minetest being used on linux, it works with most recent versions of libraries |
| 16:25 |
|
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| 16:25 |
celeron55 |
why do you make it so complicated to yourself 8) it's like people deliberately would make the build process hard |
| 16:25 |
sapier |
yes but most recent version of librarys doesn't seem to be available for windows in general ... windows build seems to be broken for some of those libs we use atm |
| 16:26 |
sapier |
gettext for example |
| 16:26 |
sapier |
freetype |
| 16:26 |
sapier |
too |
| 16:26 |
celeron55 |
that's true |
| 16:26 |
celeron55 |
and it's actually quite sad |
| 16:26 |
sapier |
we're using visual studio zlib dll for mingw build ... strange things like that |
| 16:27 |
celeron55 |
windows development slips to microsoft's tools because open source people don't care to support theirs on windows |
| 16:27 |
celeron55 |
and then they probably cry that microsoft is such a monster |
| 16:27 |
sapier |
yes and microsoft doesn't care to support platform independent libraries so we're stuck |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
but basically, if you use windows, you're screwed anyway, so a few old libraries here and there changes nothing |
| 16:29 |
sapier |
atm I try to build freetype but I'm stuck due to current mingw gcc seems to be a little bit more strict than that version they last fixed :-/ |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
still as far as I know we want to support windows for minetest ... don't we? ;-) |
| 16:30 |
celeron55 |
yes we do, because we're good |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
lol :-) obviously not good enough ;-) |
| 16:31 |
celeron55 |
should we release an opt-in poll with 0.4.8 to let regular users tell us what OS they're using? we surely know all developers use linux or bsd, but we don't know what the distribution is within users |
| 16:32 |
celeron55 |
if we at some point knew that 70% of users use linux, we could drop windows |
| 16:32 |
celeron55 |
it's not likely though |
| 16:32 |
sapier |
windows is still the most common gaming os so we don't have any chance to drop support if we want minetest to spread |
| 16:32 |
sapier |
but maybe we should decide either to use mingw or vs |
| 16:33 |
PilzAdam |
lets rephrase the poll: "Do we want Minetest to spread in windows?" |
| 16:33 |
sapier |
imho that's not a question I don't want to write a game for 10 ppl |
| 16:33 |
sapier |
no don't start to count the 10 was symbolic only |
| 16:34 |
PilzAdam |
Minetest is actually pretty known in the Open Source Gaming Community |
| 16:34 |
celeron55 |
but yeah, minetest is (or could become) probably one of the reasons why some could eventually move from windows to linux, as it works on both and they can get familiar on their old OS first |
| 16:35 |
celeron55 |
as is gimp, firefox and whatnot |
| 16:40 |
Calinou |
dropping windows would surely alienate a decent amount of players, exclusivity isn't a good thing unless you're forced to do it |
| 16:41 |
Calinou |
Minetest isn't an AAA game too, so it won't do the thing of "oh, a real game that is exclusive to Linux" to the average gamer |
| 16:41 |
sapier |
I'm against dropping windows support but for consolidating. either by dropping vs/mingw support completely or at least cleanup mingw ... atm the most common mingw build seems to be a mixed build using some vs dlls too |
| 16:42 |
Calinou |
also some people are forced to use windows :( |
| 16:42 |
celeron55 |
dropping vs or mingw support lowers the chances of minetest having continuous stream of windows builds like currently it happily does |
| 16:42 |
VanessaE |
I don't care for windows at all, but I have to agree - don't drop support for it. |
| 16:42 |
celeron55 |
it is not a situation where anyone wants to be, which is the reason why support for both must exist |
| 16:43 |
celeron55 |
i mean, the situation where windows builds are hard to get |
| 16:43 |
NakedFury |
remember without windows there would be no linux or users switching to linux |
| 16:43 |
celeron55 |
many open source projects are in that exact situation, and it is sad |
| 16:45 |
celeron55 |
NakedFury: without windows the users would be either on linux or (more likely) coming from some other platform |
| 16:45 |
sapier |
I think it'd not be that bad to support win32 if it was cleant up once and continously maintaine |
| 16:47 |
sapier |
binary dll/lib packages tend to be deleted once the new version is available but source codes are way more stable so switching to building all our dependencys on windows too might help |
| 16:48 |
celeron55 |
having our own builds of the external libraries would be useful |
| 16:49 |
celeron55 |
it could be possible to even have such an unordinary thing as a mingw irrlicht with directx support 8) |
| 16:49 |
celeron55 |
if somebody cared to make one once and for all |
| 16:50 |
sapier |
at least for mingw I'll have a try ... maybe if I really don't have anything to do I try vs |
| 16:52 |
celeron55 |
ogg is very easy to build on mingw, haven't tried the others |
| 16:53 |
sapier |
yes ogg vorbis and (old version of) gettext work |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
freetype doesn't seem to compile with recent mingw at all |
| 16:54 |
celeron55 |
are you planning to build openal by yourself? |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
but ppl report it did work with older versions of mingw |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
sapier |
I haven't thought about openal by now but I think this might be difficult |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
probably not hard, using this http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html |
| 16:56 |
celeron55 |
minetest's builds currently usually or always use creative's random release of the original or whatever version |
| 16:56 |
celeron55 |
it's really shady piece of software to say the least, but does work... |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
I used official openal and didn't have a problem ... luajit doesn't build with current mingw too |
| 16:58 |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:04 |
nore |
-> Voxel Area Entities (in the TODO) |
| 17:04 |
nore |
any chance it will be done soon? |
| 17:08 |
ShadowNinja |
nore: -> Big, long-term goals. Probably not. |
| 17:09 |
nore |
It's a Big, long-term goal for a year... |
| 17:11 |
ShadowNinja |
nore: There are more important things to be done before 0.4.8. |
| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
i think nobody has even started to try to figure out how it even could be hypothetically done |
| 17:12 |
nore |
of course, the question was for 0.5.0, ot something like that |
| 17:12 |
nore |
celeron55, what part of it is difficult to do? |
| 17:12 |
celeron55 |
how could i know, i haven't tried to think about it |
| 17:12 |
celeron55 |
if you have spare time, there's some boring bug bashing to do; focus shouldn't be on features at this moment |
| 17:13 |
celeron55 |
(reason: 0.4.8) |
| 17:13 |
nore |
about fixing bugs, I don't even know one 50th of the code... |
| 17:13 |
nore |
I only know part of environment.cpp |
| 17:14 |
nore |
since most of my pulls were either Lua pulls, or pulls changing environment.cpp |
| 17:14 |
nore |
btw, will force loading ever be merged? |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
i think it could be |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
are there any conflicting pulls around at the moment? |
| 17:20 |
PilzAdam |
I dont want to block it, but wouldnt it be better to first check if the object duplication was fixed? |
| 17:20 |
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| 17:20 |
celeron55 |
afaik my patch fixed only a certain case of it |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
a new way of reproducing it needs to be figured out in order to fix it more |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
it certainly doesn't happen in the "flying with UFO" case anymore |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
or does it? |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:28 |
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| 17:36 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: homedecor signs. Place a dozen or so. give each one some text. walk away and return after the mapblock has been unloaded. |
| 17:36 |
VanessaE |
if you get more objects than you have signs, it's probably due to entity dupes. |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
how do the signs work? |
| 17:38 |
VanessaE |
also something of a blocker bug, not exactly related to entities. Current HEAD of bas080's bees mod (https://github.com/bas080/bees/commit/8dc4d8181a34b7e0385b4720655d81862d86183f) uses particle spawners. Whatever he's doing with them is triggering that fps dropout. |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
technically |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
can you point me to the source code or if you don't care to explain |
| 17:39 |
VanessaE |
the signs use one entity per sign to display text which is built-up from individual textures via the combine function (I didn't write them). Pilzadam's signs should be sufficient also since it uses the sme concept. |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
gimme source |
| 17:39 |
thexyz |
https://github.com/xyzz/minetest-mods/blob/master/signs/init.lua |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
source code, https://github.com/PilzAdam/signs or https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor/blob/master/signs_lib.lua |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
or thexyz's link |
| 17:41 |
thexyz |
mine is the shortest |
| 17:41 |
thexyz |
:P |
| 17:41 |
VanessaE |
mine's vis a vis kaeza's is the best :) |
| 17:41 |
VanessaE |
but all three do the same basic thing. |
| 17:43 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: I beleive particles ahve some optimization issues. |
| 17:44 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: to put it mildly ;) |
| 17:44 |
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| 17:48 |
proller |
celeron55, what exactly odd in #892 ? anything good and works as expected |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
i took thexyz's mod, placed a sign, wrote "foobar" on it, walked away to let it unload, came back and there aren't extra objects |
| 17:50 |
proller |
celeron55, making something big and split it to 100 pull requests and maintain these pulls 2-9 months - impossble, better to do nothing |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
proller: yeah, i expect you to make 100 pull requests and also probably most of them will conflict with something |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
you need to make it a separate commit at least |
| 17:51 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: Make a dozen and repeat. You can use //luatransform or similar to make a bunch of signs. |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
you can't bundle up stuff like you have there; the ABM changes have nothing to do with weather |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
they're generic features |
| 17:51 |
VanessaE |
I was about to say that one sign may be insufficient to trigger the bug, if it can be at all. |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
ShadowNinja: why would that have any effect? |
| 17:51 |
proller |
abm changes for more range melting around torch |
| 17:52 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: most servers that have signs have dozens of them around the spawn area |
| 17:52 |
celeron55 |
i don't see any reason for many signs to cause other behavior |
| 17:52 |
VanessaE |
they're commonly used for rules and "bulletin boards" |
| 17:52 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: Because there is a low chance of the bug being triggered. |
| 17:53 |
NakedFury |
Sings are 100% always used in lobby areas of servers or the common spawn ground as a place to write the server rules. |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
why are you talking like i didn't know how servers use signs, lol |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
ShadowNinja: the random thing is likely to be exactly same for each sign in a bunch of signs |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
ShadowNinja: it's impossible for the chance of it to be higher by just increasing the amount of signs |
| 17:55 |
celeron55 |
seriously |
| 17:56 |
celeron55 |
try this on your own computers and don't expect me to make this bug out |
| 17:56 |
proller |
celeron55, i can split by file before commit, but content_abm.cpp have changes for abm and weather |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: because you've said yourself that you don't really play anymore. How is one supposed to know what you have and have not seen? |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: i don't know, but i figure it's a pretty basic thing on servers and minetest has had signs since years ago |
| 17:58 |
VanessaE |
yes, but maybe you forgot ;) |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
in any case i'm not digging this more |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
i tried with one sign and 5 signs, with just walking away and with restarting the server, near and far |
| 17:58 |
celeron55 |
your turn |
| 17:59 |
celeron55 |
a verbose log of the bug happening is enough to fix it |
| 17:59 |
VanessaE |
my turn has long since been completed :P but if it works for you then it's probably fixed. |
| 17:59 |
celeron55 |
my guess is it's not |
| 18:00 |
celeron55 |
proller: it's hard to discuss about your changes when they're lumped into one big thing |
| 18:00 |
celeron55 |
proller: expect to wait longer then until somebody is bored enough to go through the whole thing |
| 18:01 |
VanessaE |
s/the whole thing/that set of features/ |
| 18:02 |
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| 18:04 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, what happens often is this: http://mg.viewskew.com/u/sokomine/m/screenshot-3845000104/ |
| 18:04 |
PilzAdam |
objects lying arround stack up, but I have no idea how to reproduce that |
| 18:04 |
PilzAdam |
it seems to happen while the area is loaded, though |
| 18:07 |
sapier1 |
pa celeron did a entity duplication fix vanessae tests it at her server I don't know result of that test |
| 18:08 |
sapier1 |
maybe that issue is solved |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
the continuation to that story is that VanessaE is still seeing duplication |
| 18:08 |
PilzAdam |
sapier1, read the logs |
| 18:09 |
proller |
celeron55, now all my changes splited into two things. second here - 882 |
| 18:09 |
sapier1 |
sorry |
| 18:10 |
VanessaE |
on my server, there are three main sources of entities: signs, mobs, and pipeworks. |
| 18:10 |
VanessaE |
(s/mobs/simple mobs/) |
| 18:11 |
VanessaE |
I'm pretty sure these have all been wrung out thoroughly; that none of them produce excess entities, that is. |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
hopefully someone is able to get a log between there not being duplicate entities and there being duplicate entities |
| 18:49 |
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| 18:56 |
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| 18:59 |
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| 19:21 |
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| 19:23 |
Sokomine |
another point that ought to be sorted out before 0.4.8 is the "cyan wool" behaviour: due to the increasement of possible nodes (more than 4k), worlds created before that do have one node each that can't be properly interacted with and that shows as unkown block in the world |
| 19:24 |
Sokomine |
perhaps a script running on database level once could modify these nodes? or is there a better way? |
| 19:24 |
PilzAdam |
IIRC that was only a client server incompatibility |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:26 |
Sokomine |
when i play the map i copied with sfan5s patched client from recrabs server in singleplayer under current dev, those blocks are still unkown. that's no big surprise: they still carry the same number/id in the database |
| 19:27 |
PilzAdam |
IDs are not saved in the database |
| 19:27 |
Sokomine |
i'm not sure weather running an abm on them would work |
| 19:28 |
PilzAdam |
the item names are saved, otherwise you wouldnt be able to load a map when you changed the mod load order |
| 19:28 |
Sokomine |
the database stores a list of nodenames and ids for each mapblock afaik - and the array containing the information which block's at which position is constructed from those ids |
| 19:32 |
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| 19:37 |
Sokomine |
placing new cyan wool works. perhaps it got a new id. still, i'm afraid the map has to be rewritten once |
| 19:57 |
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| 19:59 |
Evolykane |
Just a test message, ignore it. |
| 19:59 |
* VanessaE |
fails to ignore it. |
| 20:34 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: a command that searches all loaded blocks in some radius around the player for allegedly-unknown blocks, checks if those blocks are truly unknown, and then re-places them, might be a good idea. |
| 20:34 |
VanessaE |
this should be doable in Lua, however slowly. |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
s/ blocks/mapblocks; s/blocks/nodes/g |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
aw screw it, you know what I meant. |
| 20:52 |
Sokomine |
hmmm, no. when i place a new cyan wool node, it does work and is visible. only the old ones on the map are no longer accessible. thus abms won't hit them either |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
abms work via node names. |
| 20:52 |
Sokomine |
needs to be done on a lower level i'm afraid. at least once per world ought to be enough |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
but I was thinking more like a one-time command |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
check each node in the map, see if it has something hinky about it, re-place it with the same node. |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
that would be slow but it would work. |
| 20:53 |
Sokomine |
yes. one-time command to exchange all occourances of the special id though another one |
| 21:05 |
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