| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:25 |
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| 01:06 |
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| 01:19 |
VanessaE |
I'd like to remind those in channel of PilzAdam's/Taoki's VBO code ( https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/7af479cba466f801c5cb648c8a449877957cb723.patch ) along with Exio4's "hardcode the value of 'e'" patch ( https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/136d390905acaf6fb32f54b9583207f2a493ba4f ) |
| 01:19 |
VanessaE |
together, these give me at least a 20 fps boost at the spawn on my server |
| 01:20 |
Exio4 |
the hardcoding should be done when rba does 'its changes', right now it is useless and just 'bothers' |
| 01:20 |
PilzAdam |
I already told RBA to do that |
| 01:23 |
VanessaE |
just pointing it out. the improvement is too good not to have. |
| 01:24 |
Exio4 |
ah :P |
| 01:29 |
NakedFury |
I dreamed of minetest |
| 01:29 |
NakedFury |
was weird |
| 01:30 |
NakedFury |
it was evolved |
| 01:30 |
NakedFury |
and fixed you guys were in love with the source code rewrite and cleanliness |
| 01:30 |
NakedFury |
cant remember much |
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| 02:20 |
Exio4 |
small commit making bump-mapping compatible with 1.8, it is mainly for other thing that RBA will have to 'workaround' with his changes, https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/c1d4467a132c1ee5673dcbc774421aca571d168e |
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| 12:04 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, -> https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_dokutemplate/pull/9 |
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| 17:11 |
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| 17:12 |
sapier1 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/640 can someone tell my why this isn't added? |
| 17:13 |
sapier1 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/774 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/693 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/418 would be necessary to improove mobs too |
| 17:14 |
PilzAdam |
693 and 418 would be good for Simple Mobs too |
| 17:15 |
sapier1 |
of course I always try to make improvements as generic as possible |
| 17:16 |
sapier1 |
mobf development is on hold due to those patches not beeing included ... it's useless to improve minor issues while the big blockers aren't fixable |
| 17:16 |
PilzAdam |
Im not sure about the animation thing |
| 17:17 |
PilzAdam |
there is documentation in lua-api.txt missing |
| 17:17 |
sapier1 |
it's most usefull combined with acceleration but you wouldn't have to calculate animation speed in simple mobs too |
| 17:17 |
PilzAdam |
and the fact that its not backwards compatible is really bad |
| 17:17 |
PilzAdam |
_really bad_ |
| 17:17 |
sapier1 |
it was backwards compatible but ppl complained about different functions ;-P |
| 17:18 |
PilzAdam |
I dont calculate the framerate in Simple Mobs at all |
| 17:18 |
PilzAdam |
I guess thats a mobf thing |
| 17:18 |
sapier1 |
yes but you should ;-) |
| 17:18 |
sapier1 |
no it isn't |
| 17:18 |
PilzAdam |
I have hardcoded speeds, thus I dont need to calculate it |
| 17:18 |
sapier1 |
so your mobs have only fixed speeds full and stop? |
| 17:19 |
PilzAdam |
walking speed, running speed and standing, yes |
| 17:19 |
sapier1 |
quite limited |
| 17:20 |
PilzAdam |
Simple |
| 17:20 |
sapier1 |
ok mobf supports different speed levels so animation needs to be adjusted ... this can't be done by server as latency is way to big to get a reasonable result |
| 17:20 |
PilzAdam |
it looks good in Simple Mobs, I guess the dynamic speed is a not needed feature |
| 17:20 |
sapier1 |
that's your oppinion |
| 17:21 |
PilzAdam |
and then there is this backwards incompatibility... |
| 17:21 |
sapier1 |
I already had a backward compatible version that wasn't accepted ... you're driving me crazy guy ;-P |
| 17:22 |
PilzAdam |
why wasnt it accepted? and where is it? |
| 17:22 |
sapier1 |
btw protocol will break anyway |
| 17:22 |
sapier1 |
exactly same pull request before rewrite |
| 17:22 |
sapier1 |
stepheight will do too |
| 17:23 |
sapier1 |
and I don't see any other incompatibility ... maybe I'm wrong can you explain to me? |
| 17:24 |
PilzAdam |
I just see that you increase CLIENT- and SERVER_PROTOCOL_VERSION_MIN by 9 |
| 17:24 |
PilzAdam |
and this change is not worth it |
| 17:24 |
PilzAdam |
why dont you simply add a new command, like GENERIC_CMD_SET_ANIMATION_WITH_PREDICTION? |
| 17:25 |
sapier1 |
I don't have any objections ... but this will result in incompatibility too |
| 17:25 |
PilzAdam |
it at least doesnt break anything |
| 17:26 |
sapier1 |
it breaks animation on all clients connection to a new server |
| 17:26 |
PilzAdam |
adding new things is always possible, chaning existing ones not |
| 17:26 |
sapier1 |
it's still changed |
| 17:26 |
PilzAdam |
<sapier1> it breaks animation on all clients connection to a new server <- only if mods use the new function |
| 17:26 |
sapier1 |
there's no new function |
| 17:26 |
PilzAdam |
of course you send the new function only if the new parameter to the Lua function is given |
| 17:27 |
PilzAdam |
s/function/command |
| 17:28 |
sapier1 |
I don't think this is a good idea ... yes it keeps compatibility but adds inconsistency and lots of maintenance effort |
| 17:29 |
PilzAdam |
Ill merge the stepheight thing |
| 17:29 |
sapier1 |
I don't have any chance to decide if parameter is intentionally nil or not ... so we need to add a new lua function just for adding a new parameter |
| 17:29 |
PilzAdam |
what would "intentional nil" do? |
| 17:30 |
sapier1 |
what about 640? this is a major performance issue |
| 17:31 |
sapier1 |
disable automatic update |
| 17:31 |
PilzAdam |
isnt that exactly when the old command would be send? |
| 17:31 |
sapier1 |
most likely ... ok so this isn't an issue ... still sending two different commands for same thing is crap |
| 17:32 |
PilzAdam |
it isnt exactly the same thing, and its totally worth it to keep compatibility |
| 17:32 |
sapier1 |
I'd even prefere to break animation completely on old clients |
| 17:32 |
PilzAdam |
" I'd even prefere to break" /me doesnt continue reading |
| 17:32 |
sapier1 |
no it isn't ... you never tried to maintain a software containing years of compatibility fixes |
| 17:33 |
sapier1 |
there's a point the only way to fix it is drop it completely |
| 17:33 |
sapier1 |
I don't think many ppl use an outdated client and only those would recognize missing animation |
| 17:34 |
sapier1 |
you should continue reading PilzAdam unless you want to drive away developery by arrogance |
| 17:37 |
sapier1 |
so you're gonna keep cherrypicking what you think is needed and ignoring everything else ... fine ... |
| 17:40 |
PilzAdam |
stepheight=1 doesnt seem to work |
| 17:41 |
proller |
now impossible to connect 0/4/7 to git |
| 17:41 |
sapier1 |
I didn't try for any height only 0.6 |
| 17:41 |
PilzAdam |
I thought I could disable the jumping in Simple Mobs by setting stepheight to 1 |
| 17:42 |
sapier1 |
it's not meant to replace jumping ... now I understand why you've been willing to add it ... |
| 17:43 |
sapier1 |
and I don't think it'd look good if it would work with that height |
| 17:43 |
PilzAdam |
oh wait, I made a mistake |
| 17:45 |
PilzAdam |
it works fine |
| 17:46 |
sapier1 |
true just tried with 1.1 to ride ostriches |
| 17:47 |
sapier1 |
what about get_surface? |
| 17:47 |
sapier1 |
it's a small change but a huge performance gain |
| 17:48 |
PilzAdam |
stepheight pushed |
| 17:48 |
sapier1 |
btw stepheight breaks protocol too |
| 17:49 |
PilzAdam |
as I said earlier, adding things is not breaking |
| 17:49 |
PilzAdam |
and I have added it to the bump to version 21 |
| 17:50 |
sapier1 |
you're wrong as soon as an additional member is added to entities this will break |
| 17:51 |
sapier1 |
ok it's not gonna result in problems as long as long as no bogus data is ever removed ... |
| 17:52 |
sapier1 |
guys this is plain wrong ... next to noone is using outdated clients with new servers .. and we're creating a maintenance nightmare to support it |
| 17:53 |
PilzAdam |
what happens if a new client connects to an old server? |
| 17:53 |
sapier1 |
I guess nothing |
| 17:53 |
PilzAdam |
what does that mean? no animation? |
| 17:54 |
sapier1 |
if done the way I suggest it'd change nothing if a new client connects to a old server |
| 17:55 |
proller |
push all breaking things now, before release |
| 17:55 |
sapier1 |
at least if I didn't do a programming mistake but that could be fixed |
| 17:59 |
sapier1 |
ok there's missing same try catch you rely on for your stepheight changes ... but that can be added quite easyly |
| 17:59 |
PilzAdam |
the get_surface pull seems good, but I recally hmmmm saying something about it |
| 17:59 |
PilzAdam |
cant remember what, though |
| 18:00 |
hmmmm |
it needs to be merged manually |
| 18:00 |
hmmmm |
there are conflicts apparently |
| 18:02 |
sapier1 |
those changesets interfere |
| 18:03 |
sapier1 |
if you want to merge more than one they need fixing |
| 18:06 |
sapier1 |
I added documentation as well as a fix that enables new clients to connect to old servers without issues |
| 18:08 |
sapier1 |
btw I don't even think old clients would have a problem as they'd just ignore the additional parameter in animation message |
| 18:14 |
sapier1 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/846 VanessaE could you check if this fixes your multiplayer tab issue? |
| 18:21 |
celeron55 |
it should be made so that old clients will simply get no animation if it's used |
| 18:21 |
celeron55 |
there's no good reason not to |
| 18:22 |
sapier1 |
if I'm correct in reading that code old client's won't even notice |
| 18:23 |
celeron55 |
eh |
| 18:23 |
sapier1 |
to stop them from showing any animation we'd need to replace the old message by a new one and declare old cmd id deprecated ... that was what I meant with "Id even prefere .." |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
how do you expect old clients to "not even notice" when you've made the server not even accept old clients? |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
come on now |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
stop the bullshit and make useful code |
| 18:24 |
sapier1 |
I meant if the protocol versions wouldn't be changed the way ther#re changed right now |
| 18:25 |
sapier1 |
I can't make usefull code if I don't even understand when a version change is required |
| 18:26 |
celeron55 |
generally never |
| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
anyway, quickly looking, yes, this seems such that it'll work on old clients too |
| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
but i mean, the reason why breaking version cross-compatibility is discouraged is that most people don't ever use any single feature, so breaking some little thing doesn't generally affect anything |
| 18:28 |
celeron55 |
people are much happier with a thing breaking that they never use than an old client not working because of something changed that they don't ever use |
| 18:28 |
celeron55 |
8) |
| 18:29 |
sapier1 |
I understand this but imho if keeping compatibility in some case means adding nonsense code breaking is better |
| 18:30 |
celeron55 |
there would be need to improve the framework for easier maintenance of cross-version compatibility though |
| 18:30 |
celeron55 |
i once messed around with a more robust serializer, called BKVL somewhere here: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commits/meta_set_nodedef_2 |
| 18:31 |
celeron55 |
maybe take a look for inspiration, but it's mostly a prototype |
| 18:31 |
sapier1 |
of course this would be best ... but it's a quite a lot of work ... most likely breaking compatibility a (hopefully) last time again ;-) |
| 18:31 |
sapier1 |
thx but I just finished formspec menu now I have to update mobf :-) |
| 18:32 |
sapier1 |
ok almost finished |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:14 |
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| 19:14 |
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| 19:56 |
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| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
sapier1: no, that did not help. |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
(pull #846) |
| 20:11 |
sapier1 |
hmm :-( |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
or at least, the IP that was already there got erased after I signed onto a singleplayer world, exited to the menu and went over to the "Client" tab |
| 20:13 |
sapier1 |
no I guess this wouldn't help for that case ... I only fixed manually entered ips not beeing saved on connect |
| 20:14 |
VanessaE |
so the first run won't be saved, but subsequent ones will? |
| 20:14 |
VanessaE |
IP won't* |
| 20:14 |
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| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
nope |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
doesn't save at all. |
| 20:15 |
sapier1 |
no it wasn't saved before |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
start program: type in an IP, go to single player, start a world, exit to menu, go back to client tab, IP is erased. |
| 20:15 |
sapier1 |
it should be now ... unless something overwrites ... I'll have to do further investigations |
| 20:15 |
sapier1 |
wait |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
that should be a pretty direct way to reproduce it |
| 20:16 |
sapier1 |
it's not saved on switching tabs only if you really connect |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
it needs to be saved always. never erase a field the user has typed something into |
| 20:16 |
sapier1 |
even if it's invalid? |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
well I suppose if it's invalid :P |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
but I'd say "127.0.0.1" is quite valid :) |
| 20:17 |
sapier1 |
I'll have to find out how to change this it's not meant to save anything on tab switching |
| 20:19 |
VanessaE |
even if I enter the IP and connect to it, it's still lost if I then go start a singleplayer world and come back |
| 20:19 |
sapier1 |
hmm ok more than one error |
| 21:15 |
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| 21:17 |
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| 21:20 |
proller |
now old clients cant connect to new servers with nodebox version error, why to think about them? |
| 21:44 |
sapier1 |
what does "World data version missmatch" mean? |
| 21:44 |
BlockMen5233 |
PilzAdam, -> http://pastie.org/private/8ppvl70t8vbhljxqubdjow |
| 21:47 |
sapier1 |
blockman you're right weather support breaks backward compatibility |
| 21:48 |
Exio4 |
so, is weather the thing breaking my worlds? |
| 21:48 |
PilzAdam |
yes |
| 21:48 |
PilzAdam |
proller, you broke things |
| 21:48 |
PilzAdam |
not good |
| 21:48 |
PilzAdam |
BlockMen, its proller's stupid weather breaking the map |
| 21:48 |
proller |
its version up |
| 21:49 |
proller |
i have idea |
| 21:49 |
sapier1 |
funny I'm accused for incompatibilities resulting in connection issues while we already broke world compatibility some days ago :-) |
| 21:49 |
proller |
for versions upping |
| 21:49 |
Exio4 |
fix it then |
| 21:49 |
PilzAdam |
sapier1, s/we/proller |
| 21:49 |
sapier1 |
it's been added so don't blame him |
| 21:49 |
PilzAdam |
ok, Ill blame celeron55 too |
| 21:50 |
sapier1 |
at least if he didn't add this without asking anyone ;-) |
| 21:50 |
PilzAdam |
since he told proller to push it although 3 other core devs are against it |
| 21:50 |
sapier1 |
obviously none realized the version sideeffect |
| 21:51 |
proller |
maybe make read in try-catch? |
| 21:51 |
Exio4 |
you should read the version, and check it |
| 21:51 |
PilzAdam |
^ |
| 21:51 |
proller |
its imposible in old vesion |
| 21:51 |
Exio4 |
if it is 1, or whatever it was, "read it in that way", if not, use the new |
| 21:52 |
PilzAdam |
Exio4, that doesnt help the old clients now |
| 21:52 |
sapier1 |
if you increase number it won't work in old versions no way to add a workaround |
| 21:53 |
proller |
because now imbossible to increase version without broking |
| 21:53 |
Exio4 |
are you serious? |
| 21:53 |
sapier1 |
of course how should an old client correctly interpret new format? |
| 21:53 |
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| 21:53 |
Exio4 |
you added something, that could break compatability FOR MAPS? |
| 21:53 |
proller |
old can ignore new fields |
| 21:54 |
sapier1 |
that's only half way |
| 21:54 |
sapier1 |
this way you never ever can remove anything without causing crashes |
| 21:55 |
proller |
maybe support version+1 - for compatible changes, and make version+2 for big incompatible? |
| 21:55 |
sapier1 |
only reasonable way is a new server doesn't enable higher version features on old maps thus those maps will work with old clients even after beeing used with new version |
| 21:56 |
proller |
and main thing: my changes dont save to disk, version was upped only for network |
| 21:56 |
sapier1 |
and after two minor changes it becomes a big one? deciding +1 +2 is arbitrary |
| 21:56 |
PilzAdam |
proller, why is the new version written to disk then? |
| 21:56 |
sapier1 |
is it serialization format? |
| 21:56 |
PilzAdam |
if you look at the files at the disk only, you increased the version without changing anything else |
| 21:56 |
proller |
because there was only one number for network and disk |
| 21:57 |
PilzAdam |
then split these numbers |
| 21:57 |
proller |
will try tomorrow |
| 21:58 |
Exio4 |
hm |
| 21:58 |
sapier1 |
I don't think this is gonna help |
| 21:59 |
proller |
maybe name next release 0.5.0 ? |
| 22:00 |
proller |
connection 0.4.7->0.4.8 broken, map broken |
| 22:00 |
sapier1 |
wait |
| 22:00 |
Exio4 |
ehm |
| 22:00 |
sapier1 |
why did you increase the number at all? |
| 22:01 |
proller |
for transfer +2 variables for every mapblock |
| 22:01 |
proller |
only for network |
| 22:01 |
proller |
heat+humidity |
| 22:01 |
sapier1 |
is the version detected from client? |
| 22:02 |
sapier1 |
yes but if version isn't clients version I don't understand this version check |
| 22:02 |
proller |
seems yes |
| 22:03 |
sapier1 |
hmm ok so version can be different things |
| 22:05 |
sapier1 |
we should've put a version field to all our network messages |
| 22:17 |
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