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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-07-09

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Time Nick Message
00:11 PilzAdam ehm.. hmmmm, you know that only the first of these 3 commits works correctly?
00:11 PilzAdam the second one actually messes favoriteservers.txt up, it breaks peoples data
00:12 PilzAdam and the 3rd one shows the default header if the selected game doesnt provide one
00:12 hmmmm great ;/
00:12 PilzAdam (there should be no header in this case)
00:19 PilzAdam you should at least revert the one that breaks favoriteservers.txt
00:21 hmmmm erhm
00:22 hmmmm how about from now on i'll push sapier's commits to my own fork that's rebased against upstream, and you test that first, then verify things work before i push to upstream
00:23 PilzAdam or you just read the logs of this channel
00:23 hmmmm sapier didn't seem very concerned about it
00:39 PilzAdam any objections: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/ab0872659a05ddce72ff4b36891416c21e496818
00:39 PilzAdam +?
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15:49 kahrl hi hmmmm, do you think these should be added? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/818
15:52 hmmmm sure
16:06 proller maybe merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/816 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/188 ?
16:09 hmmmm mmmm.. maybe.
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16:16 proller i can if no objections
16:19 kahrl can this be approximated somehow if shaders are disabled?
16:19 Calinou would be very slow, and would edit the map
16:19 Calinou these dynamic lights do not edit the map
16:19 Calinou and are purely client side
16:19 kahrl it's kind of weird to limit a big gameplay advantage to only those who have shaders
16:20 kahrl for example in PvP people with shaders would have big advantages over those who don't
16:21 kahrl Calinou: maybe setting a hardware light at the wield position
16:21 Calinou hardware lights?
16:23 kahrl it's obviously not the same as what people usually mean when they talk about "hardware lights in minetest"
16:25 hmmmm i think there's some sort of limitation with lighting on a scene node.... or something
16:32 celeron55 people with hacks have gameplay advantages over people with no hacks 8)
16:33 Calinou lol
16:33 Calinou kahrl: you usally don't play pvp on weak hardware anyway :P
16:33 celeron55 anyway, it would be best to have some way of making pvp not so unfair
16:34 * Calinou would like to see stu's armor/wield item mod in default game
16:34 Anchakor make combat turn based :P
16:41 Zeg9 just remove the damn enable_shaders setting
16:41 Zeg9 hmm no, it would remove direct3d support :p
16:42 kahrl just tell everyone without shaders that minetest takes place on a distant alien planet
16:42 celeron55 many low-end things don't work at all or reasonably at all with shaders
16:42 celeron55 maybe some kind of bi-yearly surveys should be made to get a hang of how many users use what 8)
16:46 Jordach not to mention that users probably want things in the pulls of minetest_game
16:47 * Zeg9 is motivated today
16:47 Zeg9 third pull-request of the day: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/819
16:47 Zeg9 ^ fixes the server list that *someone* broke :P
16:53 Taoki hmmmm: Any examples of how the voxel manipulator can be used to fill out an area (between two corners)? I've been trying for hours to do that, and even with the help of 2 people still couldn't figure it out
16:53 Taoki Currently it fills out another area than the specified corners
16:54 Taoki https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/5957302 Last suggestion by PilzAdam. Almost works but it fills an incorrect space instead of the one specified. I don't know what to add since I can't understand how this works yet
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17:03 sapier fallback to default was exactly what has been told to me
17:04 sapier I'm sorry guys but I can't make two opposit requirements work at same time
17:05 Zeg9 sapier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/819
17:05 Zeg9 brb
17:06 sapier what are the differences to my versionß
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17:13 hmmmm taoki, it's all completely documented and there are numerous examples
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17:13 hmmmm setting literally every element like pilzadam does there works for him, but it won't necessarily work for you
17:14 hmmmm i don't get how somebody can be trying *for hours* and not figuring out how to do it
17:14 hmmmm why don't you look at that TNT mod?
17:14 sapier https://gist.github.com/sapier/5959230 can someone verify that this is behaviour of menu headers ?
17:14 Taoki hmmmm: I looked in the lua api, although functions are documented functionality is hard to figure out. I also searched examples and couldn't find any
17:15 sapier I don't want to do it a fourth time
17:15 hmmmm shadowninja and others didn't seem to have a problem...
17:15 hmmmm first of all, taoki, why do you want to fill a space with air?
17:16 Taoki hmmmm: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=LKA78BQ7 This is what I have now BTW
17:16 Taoki hmmmm: A function co clear a selected box
17:16 Taoki *to
17:16 hmmmm yes, but for what purpose
17:16 hmmmm there might be a better way to do what you'd like to do overall
17:16 Taoki For buildings, and the node to import them (which also has a function to clear the area of nodes first)
17:16 hmmmm so you'd like to clear a spot for buildings
17:17 hmmmm and the buildings use the schematic, right?
17:17 Taoki Well, old way was setting each node to air with the previous system which was very laggy
17:17 Taoki Yes
17:17 hmmmm you realize that with place_schematic, air nodes are placed?
17:17 hmmmm this makes it unnecessary to clear an area first
17:17 Taoki I know. I still need the separate clear function however
17:17 hmmmm don't see why...
17:17 Taoki Part of how my mod works. For natural buildings I also leave a border / space
17:18 Taoki I also want to be able to empty out the marked area I work with first
17:18 hmmmm well, i'd just like to point out that i anticipated people needing to clear the area first which is why i had place_schematic force placement of air
17:18 hmmmm so you wanted to have a border
17:19 sapier I realized that there have been some troubles with pull requests I updated I apologize ... I'm going to drop pulls and create new ones in future to avoid confusion
17:19 hmmmm and when does this happen, taoki?  on_generate?
17:19 Taoki There's also the command to clear a marked area before importing or exporting any schematics
17:19 Taoki hmmmm: No, I need the function to be called manually on a certain cube in the world
17:20 Taoki Not on_generate, because if someone's editing an area they are already in a loaded place and set it up manuall
17:20 hmmmm if you read my initial news post here http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6396 you'd see there's a nice example of how to use it:
17:20 hmmmm http://pastebin.com/x0DFYXQD
17:20 hmmmm of course, some minor things have changed in the api since then but the way you manipulate the data is exactly the same
17:23 Taoki I still don't see how to load only a certain area of data in the voxel manipulator and write it back. So I can simply select an area (at any nodes, regardless of mapblocks) and fill that
17:23 hmmmm you can't load *just* a certain area
17:24 hmmmm the area being loaded must be rounded out to mapblock boundaries
17:24 hmmmm this is why there's a difference between a). what you asked for and b). what you got
17:24 Taoki oh
17:24 hmmmm you're supposed to only modify what you asked for
17:24 Taoki In that case it might work to check the boundaries of each node when looping through the vm data
17:24 hmmmm to make this task simple, i added the VoxelArea helper class
17:25 hmmmm you might want to take a look at it, it's in builtin/voxelarea.lua
17:25 hmmmm you create a new VoxelArea object by calling VoxelArea:new(), passing in the coordinates of MaxEdge and MinEdge of what was actually emerged
17:26 hmmmm you get the index of the element you want inside of the data array by passing the absolute coordinates to VoxelArea:index()
17:27 hmmmm and i don't get why I have to be the person to keep explaining how to use it
17:27 hmmmm VoxelManip is mainstream, it's not like some wacky thing that I came up with and I'm the only one who understands
17:28 Taoki Trying to use it now
17:29 hmmmm it's stable too, so it's not like it's a problem on my end if it doesn't work 100% the way you'd expect it to
17:30 celeron55 sapier: umm
17:30 celeron55 sapier: what is your or someone else's problem now exactly?
17:31 sapier My problem is that I guess I created some trouble to others as I don't want to do so I think this is best option
17:32 celeron55 i'm not surprised at all if the background-making logic got screwed up in the menu remake
17:32 hmmmm to be honest, sapier, i wouldn't be of much help (i'm not ignoring you) this is pilzadam's area, i honestly don't know what to expect from the menu headers
17:32 sapier I was talking about my pull updates ... I know that I'm not guilty about the menu background things as those never have been specified correctly
17:33 hmmmm and i don't really care either
17:33 Taoki Ahh... seem to have gotten it working at last
17:33 celeron55 sapier: i think the header/footer thing is quite obvious, but the background/footer might not be, am i correct?
17:33 sapier I don't really care too how it works I just want some at least somehow final solution
17:34 celeron55 ehm
17:34 celeron55 background/overlay*
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17:34 sapier ok so it's 3 cases not two as I assumed
17:34 celeron55 it was somewhat messed up before and i predict it will be messed up now
17:35 celeron55 so, there are three alternatives of how to draw the background: 1) clouds + game's overlay, 2) game background, 3) clouds
17:35 sapier yes I already had that discussion to vanessa ... I don't care how it behaves if I don't need to change it twice a week ;-)
17:36 celeron55 uhm
17:36 sapier and there may be a texture pack too
17:36 celeron55 so do you want a correct explanation of how it should work or not?
17:36 sapier and in texture pack there may be game specific and default textures
17:36 sapier in best case I want a correct version
17:37 sapier but if "correct" depends on who I ask I'm fine with something stable too
17:37 Taoki hmmmm: So just to be sure I understand. vm:read_from_map(min, max) doesn't get the area in nodes between min and max. But instead it gets the mapblocks touching this area... correct?
17:37 Taoki Then voxelarea is used to filter nodes themselves
17:37 hmmmm taoki, yes
17:37 celeron55 i can tell it as how i designed it to work and implemented it before your menu update... it's quite complicated though
17:37 Taoki ok. Good to know for the future. That confused me a lot today
17:38 hmmmm would you mind showing me your final code?
17:38 hmmmm i guarantee you're doing something dumb and i'd like to fix it
17:38 sapier ok I guess the before state will be fine
17:38 celeron55 sapier: so first you need to end up in a situation where you know whether you have the overlay available, and whether you have the background available
17:39 celeron55 (this is for the singleplayer tab)
17:40 celeron55 then if you don't have an overlay but have a background, show the background
17:40 celeron55 else if you have an overlay, show it on clouds
17:41 celeron55 else if menu clouds are enabled, show only clouds
17:41 celeron55 else show a single-color background
17:41 celeron55 that's how it worked
17:41 sapier ok now how to decide which background to use?
17:42 celeron55 order of preference: 1) texture pack, 2) game
17:42 sapier ok
17:42 sapier so what about mixed modes e.g. if texturepack specifies overlay but game specifies background?
17:43 celeron55 that's why i mentioned the midway result - you don't care where they came from at that final choosing point
17:43 celeron55 it makes it... somewhat handleable
17:44 celeron55 as for the non-game themed background, the order of priority goes as: 1) texture pack, 2) clouds if enabled, 3) something else (the same solid color as the final else in before?)
17:44 sapier not exactly that'll result in dual pass setting
17:44 celeron55 dual pass with simple passes is better than a single extremely complicated pass...
17:44 sapier only way to find out if a texture is correct is trying to use it atm
17:44 celeron55 anyway, i agree that this is complicated; i am just explaining how it worked
17:45 Zeg9 sapier: apparently, with your commit, the public server list still doesn't show sometimes (is name escaped? are [] escaped?)
17:45 sapier yes I know zeg9 for some reason the exact same code used in minetest.escape doesn't work for []
17:46 sapier I already tried hours to find out why lua fails to find [] in strings, tried different escapes no success
17:47 Zeg9 have you tried this one ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/819/files
17:47 sapier celeron55 thanks I'm gonna update my gist and make sure everyone agrees with the way I understood it
17:47 sapier zeg9 it's almost same as my changes in 815
17:47 celeron55 sapier: you can try to find a better logic of course but as long as one wants to satisfy the same audience as before, it's not really possible
17:48 hmmmm really wish people could run string parsing formats by us before they implement it
17:48 sapier yes I already realized nothing is more sacred than the old behaviour and of course exact pixel order :-)
17:48 hmmmm string formats that need to be parsed* rather
17:48 proller sapier, did you return "public" checkbox ?
17:49 sapier "return"?
17:49 hmmmm proller, it's been there for a while.
17:49 Zeg9 sapier: found out. you didn't run fs_escape_string on spec.name
17:49 proller it was before formspec
17:49 celeron55 sapier: i still say that some day a full menu rework must be done to make the singleplayer/others difference more intuitive
17:50 celeron55 anyone is free to propose a design for such
17:52 sapier I'm completely with you ... my vision about formspec was to provide a basic menu and specified ones ... but I didn't calculate with communitys binding to old menu
17:52 sapier specific ones
17:53 sapier zeg9 great! thanks
17:53 Zeg9 No problem :-P I can finally use this menu
17:53 sapier I don't know how often I looked at this without realizing it
17:59 VanessaE sapier: people are creatures of habit and don't like having things moved around too much if there isn't enough improvement to go with the move.
18:00 VanessaE enough user-facing improvement, I mean
18:00 VanessaE from a coders' standpoint, the lua menu is a good idea.
18:01 VanessaE from a user's standpoint it'll be something like, "wtf?  why was this moved around?  I liked it where it was!!"  etc etc
18:01 sapier https://gist.github.com/sapier/5959230 ok plz review
18:01 Zeg9 sapier: going with the bug fixes, have you got an idea why the mods won't show on a run_in_place=0 minetest?
18:02 sapier no but it's difficult to test for me as I don't want to mess up my os with minetest files ... but I'm gonna try to find out whats wrong
18:03 Zeg9 you could make a chroot
18:03 sapier including all libs? I guess that's a little bit too much for my ssd ;-)
18:04 Zeg9 :P
18:04 Zeg9 I'll try to find out when I got time
18:04 Zeg9 seems like I'm the only one interested in run_in_place=0 :/
18:04 sapier but I'll find a way once all more important bugs are fixed ... e.g. pilzadams "names get removed" ... I don't have any idea how that commit can remove names
18:05 sapier maybe zeg9 ... in system install is a little bit messy for most os
18:05 sfan5 sapier: I have a 32bit ubuntu raring chroot environment, its 392MB big
18:05 sapier ok I guess I'll have that much available ... still some work to do
18:06 Zeg9 sapier: sudo make install usually puts everything in /usr/local, which I can delete at any time, and run_in_place=0 is used for packages
18:06 VanessaE sapier: that seems right to me, except on line 47, you meant 'game' there.
18:06 sapier no I wanted to delete that line
18:07 VanessaE er, right
18:08 sapier ok once pilzadam is fine with that too I'm gonna fix it that way
18:09 sapier VanessaE you do use public server list do you?
18:09 VanessaE nope.
18:09 sapier ok so no need to ask you about it
18:10 VanessaE it's useless for me because of the false-doubleclick behavior (unless that's been fixed) and no storage of passwords.
18:10 sapier no but I made updown buttons work
18:10 sapier uhm updown keys of course
18:11 VanessaE right
18:11 sapier I'm sorry I'd like to do more but it's irrlicht
18:12 VanessaE it's ok
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19:16 sokomine i heard that rotation with schematics works now with param2/facedir as well. thank you for that!
19:17 sokomine is there already a way to do the node-replacement as well? that's the only thing that still keeps me from using schematics (i'd like to have node xyz placed instead of abc in the schematic - *all* nodes of abc ought to become xyz when the schematic has been placed)
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19:26 hmmmm not really sure why you'd need that
19:27 hmmmm and even if you legitimately do need that sort of functionality, you're basically the only one using it and i'm not taking random feature requests that benefit a single person
19:28 PilzAdam I would have some usecases for it too
19:30 sfan5 just open the schematic in lua and replace all occurences of <a> in the node table with <b>
19:31 PilzAdam sounds hacky
19:31 sfan5 but works
19:32 PilzAdam if I e.g. have a "general" schematic wich just uses "dirt" or "stone", then each time you read it youd have to change the file, place it and then change it back
19:32 hmmmm not only that, but you'd only be able to switch to nodes with names that are equal or smaller in length
19:33 sfan5 umm
19:33 sfan5 you can extend the node table
19:33 hmmmm you like doing all that nice & slow file manipulation?
19:34 sfan5 I didn't say it was fast
19:35 hmmmm if i were to advocate this node swapping, what i'd do is have the user supply an optional replacement list parameter to minetest.place_schematic and another field to the schematic decoration type which matches the node names and overrides them before the node names are resolved
19:35 PilzAdam some kind of wrapper would be nice: schem = Schematic("/home/.../schem,mts"); local size = schem:get_size(); schem:set_alias("dirt", "default:dirt"); schem:place(pos)
19:36 sapier PilzAdam can you tell me what's wrong with that reverted commit? I can't see anything that'd explain something beeing removed by it.
19:37 PilzAdam it removes the name and description from favoriteservers.txz
19:37 PilzAdam *txt
19:37 sapier I assume there's some other bug that couldn't happen before due to public list not working at all
19:38 PilzAdam well, you have to fix that other bug first, deleting data from users is not good
19:38 sapier where are those names you're talking from I wasn't aware names are saved anywhere?
19:38 PilzAdam https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/5960570
19:39 PilzAdam this is my favoriteserver.txt
19:39 sapier I don't do anything to that file directly but I gues I've got an idea where to look for it
19:39 PilzAdam ehm, there are two empty lines at the end (the gist has removed them)
19:40 sapier I guess it's removed by core due to information not beeing transfered from lua ... but I have to verify that
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19:46 sapier ok verified ... nothing is wrong with the reverted commit it just shows up a bug already present before
19:46 proller and "public" ?
19:47 sapier I don't know what you mean with "public" proller plz explain to me ;-)
19:47 proller "public" checkbox in server start
19:48 sapier ok now I know plz post to issue 814 so it won't be forgotten again
19:48 PilzAdam its already there
19:49 sapier it is?
19:49 PilzAdam 2nd comment: "EDIT: and the public server list still doesn't work."
19:49 sapier can you clarify that a little bit more I read that as favourites
19:50 sapier prollers feature is "announce to public serverlist checkbox"
19:50 PilzAdam oh
19:50 sapier is there a way to rerevert a commit?
19:55 PilzAdam sure
19:55 PilzAdam just revert the revert commit
19:56 sapier lol ... that'll look interesting in commit log :-)
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20:10 proller https://github.com/proller/minetest/commit/2bc58f04514e7b15cebd5bac250bffd5cfa4427d
20:10 proller no objections?
20:10 proller ok, will commit.
20:11 sapier I'm fine
20:11 proller its lost public checkbox
20:12 PilzAdam wait, why does the formspec use dump()?
20:12 PilzAdam you cant rely on a specific format of dump()
20:12 * proller just copy-paste
20:13 PilzAdam sapier?
20:13 sapier it's used for a bool value
20:14 sapier in this special case relying on it's output shouldn't be a problem
20:15 PilzAdam change it to minetest.serialize()
20:16 sapier there's no serialize in menu
20:16 proller now i want to push, and if it need - replace dump in next commits
20:17 PilzAdam well, then dofile("builtin/serialize.lua")
20:17 sapier yes if this really has to be removed I want to have a special function cause if I can't rely on dump I can't on serialize either
20:17 sapier both don't guarantee to return true/false only
20:18 PilzAdam you can rely on serialize()
20:18 sapier I wouldn't ever rely to serialize giving a special format
20:18 PilzAdam then write your own function
20:19 sapier that was the suggestion but not instantly
20:20 sapier btw it's in there multiple times noone ever complained about it .. you too ;-)
20:23 sapier PilzAdam did you check the header/background/overlay gist specification?
20:23 PilzAdam hm?
20:24 sapier https://gist.github.com/sapier/5959230
20:25 sapier I've changed this already 3 times due to some unknown requirements not beeing implemented I don't want to do a fiveth time :) next one has to be last
20:27 PilzAdam "done" = dont continue?
20:27 sapier yes
20:27 PilzAdam then its wrong, overlay and background can both exist
20:27 PilzAdam clouds = enable_clouds && not background
20:28 PilzAdam also, dont try "default" header/footer in singleplayer tab
20:28 sapier then we need to clarify again as I understood celeron55 if overlay is set background isn't used ... vanessae agreed to that gist too
20:29 sapier VanessaE ? are you here atm?
20:30 sapier I don't care how it's done if it's accepted by those using it
20:32 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/815 rereverted the serverlist commit and fixed the favourites not beeing saved
20:34 PilzAdam 22:34:28: ERROR[main]: MAINMENU ERROR: error: /home/adam/Minetest/minetest/bin/../builtin/mainmenu.lua:694: attempt to index field 'favourites' (a nil value)
20:35 sapier great what have you done :-)
20:35 PilzAdam dunno
20:35 PilzAdam it happens sometimes when I click on an entry, the address field is not set when it happens
20:35 PilzAdam but everything else works perfectly fine
20:37 PilzAdam can you remove the selection in the list if the user changes port or adress field?
20:37 sapier ok I hate british american favo(u)rites
20:37 sapier pushed a fix
20:38 sapier hmm textfield changes aren't notified to lua atm but I guess I can add that .... but it's gonna creat a lot of load
20:39 sapier maybe a "editbox enter" event would be an option
20:39 sapier I wonder if I really have to add any tk feature to formspec until this is finished :)
20:40 sapier can you verify it's not crashing anymore?
20:40 PilzAdam yes
20:40 sapier good
20:40 PilzAdam well, it happened randomly before, and it didnt happen after I pulled your fix
20:41 sapier I guess it's related to a doubleclick on favorites
20:41 sapier at least that code was only executed on "doubleclick"
20:41 PilzAdam when I click on "delete", the adress field is cleared, but another entry in the list is selected
20:42 sapier I guess the address field should be updated instead of beeing cleared
20:42 PilzAdam I would expect that the adress field gets set to the newly selected entry
20:44 sapier hmm that's an interesting issue
20:44 sapier address/port are always set to those saved in settings ... on deletion those are cleared while selection is preserved
20:45 PilzAdam clearing the selection would be an option too
20:45 PilzAdam so you cant accidentally remove several entries at once
20:46 PilzAdam and clearing the adress field when no entry is selected is nice too
20:46 sapier ok that'd be my suggestion too as it's tricky to evaluate what will be selected next depends on special cases e.g. last element is selected
20:47 PilzAdam oh, the selection also kept if switching between favorite and public list
20:47 PilzAdam (and fields are not updated)
20:47 sapier ok I fix both at once
20:48 PilzAdam create a new commit in that branch, Ill squash it when merging
20:48 sapier was my intention
20:49 sapier ok pushed
20:51 PilzAdam do you want that "clear selection when changing adress field" thing now, or should I merge what currently is in the branch first?
20:52 sapier sorry don't understand?
20:52 sokomine hmmmm: you said "if i were to advocate this node swapping, what i'd do is have the user supply an optional replacement list parameter to minetest.place_schematicand another field to the schematic decoration type which matches the node names and overrides them before the node names are resolved" - that's exactly what i'd like to have! could that be done? it would not only be helpful for houses. other decorations will also profit
20:53 PilzAdam <PilzAdam> can you remove the selection in the list if the user changes port or adress field?
20:53 sapier Oh you're talking about the selection removal if someone edits address or port field?
20:53 PilzAdam ^ do you want to code that before merging?
20:53 sapier ok that'll be a little bit more work I think those bugfixes are not critical atm
20:53 sapier I'll do  the editbox changes on a different branch
20:54 PilzAdam k
20:54 sapier it's more feature enhancement than bugfix
20:54 PilzAdam yea
20:54 PilzAdam Ill merge #815 then
20:59 PilzAdam is that "cfav: nil" debug output removed?
21:01 sapier I think yes but I'll check again
21:01 PilzAdam yep, it is
21:02 sapier yes it's fixed with the rereverted serverlist commit
21:02 sapier can others comment a gist entry?
21:02 sapier https://gist.github.com/sapier/5961251 did I miss anything?
21:04 PilzAdam updated the issue
21:05 PilzAdam sapier, check the first post in #814
21:05 sapier ahh there's something below
21:08 PilzAdam "2) when you change the tab and then directly click on a world then a singleclick is enough to start it (maybe a can't fix)" <- it was also present before the Lua menu
21:09 sapier ok so not maybe
21:10 sapier I guess to fix those issues we need to issue some pull requests to irrlicht
21:10 PilzAdam there was a issue about that IIRC....
21:10 sapier there's even a patch to add doubleclick support ... already some years old
21:13 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/586 this one?
21:14 PilzAdam ... or not
21:14 PilzAdam is that issue still valid with the new menu?
21:14 sapier no a patch for irrlicht
21:17 sapier http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3022
21:22 hmmmm christ, 2004
21:22 hmmmm erm, is it just me, or does it seem like a fork is in tune for irrlicht?
21:22 sapier yes almost a decade
21:23 hmmmm (no pun intended)
21:23 hmmmm we'll call it Betterlicht
21:23 sapier I'm not sure if we really can cope with the additional work
21:23 hmmmm nah, just kidding
21:24 sapier maybe we should first try to increase pressure towards irrlicht guys ;-)
21:24 hmmmm but we'd be able to fix a lot of things that way
21:24 sapier I only know about three atm
21:25 sapier lisbox scroll position, double click, shaders
21:25 hmmmm and transparency sorting
21:25 hmmmm also, iirc, irrlicht can't tesellate
21:26 sapier hmm did anyone try to post fixes for that problems to irrlicht?
21:26 hmmmm nope
21:27 hmmmm we'd be able to do some transparency sorting on our own a few ways, it seems like the best option of those is to render the transparent nodes to a separate framebuffer first
21:27 hmmmm but of course everything would work out nicer if this was in irrlicht
21:27 hmmmm oh, also, we'd be able to fix the VBO not getting dropped when a meshbuffer is deleted
21:28 hmmmm honestly, pushing irrlicht people to do this won't help because they won't even fix things when they have the code offered to them on a golden platter
21:28 hmmmm and even if we do get it changed, we still have to deal with older versions
21:29 sapier maybe we haven't found the one that is interested in fixing it yet
21:29 sapier yes but it'd be a matter of time until we can drop the workarounds
21:29 hmmmm yeah.. maybe like two years
21:30 sapier yes I didn't say what amount of time :)
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