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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-04-01

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Time Nick Message
00:02 hmmmm proller
00:02 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8d4b76829753b3db9020ff1f68fb4b0a57025ed3
00:02 hmmmm erm
00:02 hmmmm troller
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00:05 sapier hmm did you know server is a smart pointer?
00:05 hmmmm no i didn't, is it?
00:06 sapier yes it is :-) game.cpp L1013
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00:06 hmmmm ....ew
00:06 hmmmm why
00:07 hmmmm just so it auto deletes?  seriously?
00:07 sapier don't know I discovered when trying to fix all those memory leaks valgrind is complaining about
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00:07 hmmmm do you know why that's necessary?  because the_game() is a huge monolithic piece of shit instead of a class like it should be
00:08 sapier it's quite tricky with pointers spread over different classes noone realy feeling reponsible to cleanup used memory
00:08 hmmmm this is sort of a reason why i want to avoid smart pointers
00:08 sapier no I don't have any idea why server is any different to any other big class in there, I'd use new and delete it on exit
00:09 hmmmm same with a lot of these C++ constructs
00:09 hmmmm they hide really important details that you should know about
00:09 sapier atm I feel biggest problem is lack of clean interface ... thats reason why any component holds it's own pointer to crucial other classe
00:09 sapier s
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03:12 sapier1 https://github.com/sapier/minetest/commit/6f9160ea7dca1e20118c793cbaf7187644a09708 << removes texture atlas as well as reduces number of memory leaks for a single login->exit to os cycle from 80+ to < 10
03:14 hmmmm erm woah
03:14 hmmmm what is that thing in the biomedefmanager dtor
03:14 sapier1 still there are some difficult to fix leaks left and of course any single text string I didn't fix is still leaking
03:14 hmmmm also noo
03:14 hmmmm you can't delete np
03:15 sapier1 I can!
03:15 hmmmm oh okay nevermind, you allocated a ne wone
03:15 hmmmm didn't see that
03:15 sapier1 yes because otherwise I can't decide if its an allocated one or default
03:15 sapier1 same for mapgen v6 parameters
03:16 hmmmm i decided early on that the memory leak there doesn't matter much because it's less than 50 bytes per, and it's only leaked along with a new instance of server
03:16 hmmmm unfortunately none of that stuff matters because it's pretty much all getting scrapped :/
03:16 hmmmm i have a new way of doing biomes
03:16 sapier1 it may not matter in sum but it's a problem to find real leaks if those small ones hide everything
03:17 hmmmm what's with the way you changed the biome factory function there?
03:17 sapier1 biomes have been only a very small part
03:18 sapier1 hmm relicts of debugging I forgot
03:18 sapier1 it's not completed either so I'll change it back when doing remaining changes
03:19 hmmmm sure, go ahead
03:19 hmmmm doesn't matter though, 'cause like i said, i'm nuking biome.cpp totally
03:19 sapier1 but tomorrow :-) its 5:30 am
03:19 hmmmm what
03:19 hmmmm that's even worse than me
03:19 hmmmm what's wrong with you
03:20 sapier1 didn't notice time while getting those leaks fixed ;-)
03:20 hmmmm that's nut
03:20 hmmmm nuts
03:20 hmmmm 4am is my absolute limit
03:20 sapier1 once uppon a time I went to bed as sun rose :-) nowadays I try to get to bed befor dawn
03:21 sapier1 funny thing is I can't cleanup sky without crashing minetest don't know how this is linked to irrlicht
03:21 hmmmm why'd you change all the i=0; != blah.size()s to iterators
03:21 hmmmm we avoid iterators
03:22 hmmmm see code style guidelines
03:22 hmmmm also, crap, i did forget to clean up the ores
03:22 sapier1 iterators are best way to get everything for std structs I've had to fix too many off by one bugs to avoid them where possible
03:23 hmmmm none of my stuff has off by one bugs though
03:23 sapier1 and [] gives strange results sometimes too
03:23 hmmmm ?
03:23 hmmmm what do you mean
03:23 hmmmm tell me about that tomorrow though
03:23 hmmmm go on
03:23 sapier1 [ is c++ and can mean be almost everything
03:24 sapier1 from array index to hash selection operator :-)
03:24 hmmmm [] is still 100% predictable
03:25 sapier1 any program is 100% predictable ;-) but not 100% visible at first glance ;-)
03:26 sapier1 btw != operator in for loops is dangerous ... it may not matter in small loops but if theres someone incrementing to high you'll run forever
03:26 hmmmm yes... if your variable somehow gets incremented when it wasn't supposed to
03:26 hmmmm which is enough of a bug in its own right
03:26 hmmmm if it somehow skips your end condition, there's still a pretty huge problem that you're at least aware of now
03:27 sapier1 true but consequences can easyly be avoided
03:27 hmmmm you should get some sleep
03:27 Exio delete in C++ is free in C, no?
03:27 sapier1 most likely you wont notice someone running over end of loop
03:27 hmmmm exio, almost
03:27 Exio (as new == malloc) but with a C++ behavior
03:27 Exio ok
03:28 hmmmm there are other things that happen aside from memory allocation
03:28 sapier1 quite but constructors/destructors are called too
03:28 Exio yep, that is what i meant with "C++ behavior" :P
03:28 sapier1 btw if someone wants to fix the other gui files ;-) I'd not be mean about it ;-)
03:29 sapier1 and now have a good day ;-)
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03:34 kahrl erm why are you guys removing the texture atlas?
03:34 hmmmm he came from the grave to defend his invention
03:35 kahrl heh :P but it wasn't my invention
03:35 hmmmm i personally wouldn't like to see the texture atlas completely removed, that's sapier's idea, but it was everybody's idea to have it disabled by default as it is often problematic and doesn't improve much
03:36 kahrl there are obviously bugs in the texture atlas code somewhere
03:36 hmmmm celeron did say that the texture atlas is pretty useless though
03:36 hmmmm i would rather see it fixed than destroyed
03:39 kahrl maybe take hints from the map generator about which nodes to include in the atlas?
03:39 kahrl since right now it goes through all the nodes by ID
03:40 kahrl then it might be not as useless
03:41 hmmmm how often is the atlas built?
03:42 kahrl twice, it seems
03:42 kahrl once when Client is created and once in afterContentReceived
03:43 hmmmm i'm honestly not too familiar with what the problems were, i was never too involved with the texture atlas things.  forgive me if i sound ignorant
03:43 hmmmm it seems like a recipie for running out of video memory though
03:44 kahrl how so?
03:44 hmmmm lots of servers have ridiculous amounts of nodes, like ~2600
03:44 kahrl its size is limited to 1024x1024 or some number like that
03:44 hmmmm and then to make things worse, they use high resolution texture packs
03:44 hmmmm ah
03:44 hmmmm let me see that
03:45 kahrl which means it isn't really useful if you use HD texture packs, but it should help with 16px ones
03:45 hmmmm looks more like 256x256
03:46 kahrl core::dimension2d<u32> atlas_dim(2048,2048);
03:47 hmmmm i see
03:47 hmmmm what's with the column_width?
03:47 kahrl not sure
03:47 kahrl oh, the atlas_dim was changed in 1b078efd5fe3a80011339f90df06e5f55fdbadf3
03:48 VanessaE the prodigal son returns, heh
03:49 kahrl I've been here all the time :P
03:49 kahrl watching you
03:50 kahrl that didn't sound creepy at all did it
03:50 hmmmm do you watch through loggingbot_ or something?
03:50 VanessaE heh
03:50 kahrl yeah on irc.minetest.ru
03:51 Exio ehm
03:51 Exio i will stop talking in the channel, i think
03:52 kahrl ?
03:52 VanessaE Exio: big brother is watching you.
03:52 Exio exactly!
03:53 Exio kahrl: just a joke as response to the "I've been here all the time watching you"
03:53 hmmmm texture atlas with 16x16 textures actually decreases performance for me slightly (about 1-2 fps with the same exact scene, nothing significant though)
03:53 hmmmm it's probably more effective with certain gpus
03:53 kahrl okay wasn't sure if joking :P
03:55 kahrl interesting, I'll check the performance gains (losses) too
03:56 hmmmm the nodes placed by the map generator (the most common nodes) are nearly always the first nodes registered, so they would certainly be found in the atlas
03:56 hmmmm i'm not really sure if it needs a hint
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03:56 kahrl true
03:56 jojoa1997|Tablet Mauvebic
03:57 hmmmm i'm not a 3d graphics person at all, so i really don't know... what could be used to profile graphics performance?
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04:00 kahrl haven't really used anything but drawtime and FPS so I don't know
04:00 Exio drawtime, not FPS
04:01 Exio the difference of FPS can be very high but the drawtime is "what really matters"
04:01 hmmmm graphically, i'm not sure if minetest is doing too well
04:01 hmmmm we don't use many effects, yet struggle to get a decent framerate on even modern-ish (but low end) GPUs
04:02 hmmmm clearly it was optimized for intel 945gm graphics, but that probably had much different bottlenecks than say, my nvidia 8400gs
04:03 hmmmm it'd be nice to have some mechanism to set different performance profiles based on which gpu is present
04:06 kahrl is there a way to tell with irrlicht?
04:07 hmmmm on initialization, the GPU name string is printed out so i'm fairly sure there is
04:08 Exio what type of "performance boost" can be done to a special gpu?
04:09 kahrl IVideoDriver::getVendorInfo()
04:09 hmmmm excellent, thanks
04:10 hmmmm exio, more fps by doing things the way that works best for that certain class of GPUs
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04:15 ds-2k For the texture atlas, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-02-27#i_2900808 has some information about issues (6d facedir breaks)
04:18 kahrl thanks, I didn't know the rendering is now sorted by material
04:19 kahrl that does make the atlas somewhat useless
04:21 RealBadAngel atlas goes nuts when tile vertices are rotated
04:23 kahrl that could be worked around I guess, but now I'm not sure if it's needed
04:23 Exio for what is the texture atlas exactly?
04:24 kahrl switching textures during rendering is a slow operation
04:24 kahrl the atlas makes it so most things use the same texture
04:24 Exio hm
04:25 Exio i just tried here (nvidia gt 610 - x6 6100), 10~ FPS less with the atlas enabled (actually, that is very low in terms of drawtime)
04:26 Exio from 180-250~ to 160-235~
04:26 hmmmm what sort of FPS do you get in general with that setup, and with what resolution and other options?
04:26 Exio nearly 1920x1080, default outside that
04:26 hmmmm crazy
04:26 hmmmm 40fps here with an 8400gs
04:26 Exio what can kill my fps is the AA
04:27 Exio fsaa = 32
04:27 hmmmm disabled transparent leaves, 1280x1024
04:27 Exio check how many fps you get, 21 here when looking at the sky
04:27 Exio (400~ when looking at the sky without fsaa)
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04:37 Exio for being real, i don't see a real difference between 100 or 120 FPS to 500
04:38 hmmmm should probably enable VSync
04:38 hmmmm you'll save a whole bunch of electricity
04:38 Exio nah, my gpu is the cheaper i was able to buy
04:38 Exio it consumes like 20 W or less, (iirc)
04:39 hmmmm CPU too, your CPU does things ever frame too
04:39 Exio and really, fps_limit, i normally have vsync or some fps limit
04:39 Exio well, talking about that, yes
04:39 hmmmm those are pretty incredible numbers, i must say
04:39 Exio i should try to overclock the cpu / gpu and then try to run minetest
04:39 hmmmm what OS are you using?
04:39 Exio debian6 actually
04:40 hmmmm 310 or 314 drivers?
04:40 hmmmm 313 rather
04:40 Exio i'll install gentoo in some weeks when i'm able to get a proper network
04:40 Exio | NVIDIA-SMI 4.310.32   Driver Version: 310.32         |
04:40 Exio hmmmm: ^ here :P
04:40 hmmmm i am still on 304 actually, i noticed there was a bit of a regression with 310 when i tried them on my laptop
04:42 Exio the only game where i had "fps problems" was in minecraft, actually
04:42 hmmmm heh, when i get a job i intend on getting a real graphics card, something like a 660Ti or 760Ti, or whatever's a generaton old by that time.  i can only imagine the FPS i'd get then
04:42 Exio i don't see buying a "very high end" gpu something what is worth it unless you really need it
04:43 Exio a mid-end (not low end like this) will work very well
04:43 Exio hmmmm: this gpu is already old, ddr3, most actual gpu are ddr5 and so
04:43 hmmmm *60Ti isn't really high end, the *50 and lower is sort of a crappy price/performance point
04:43 Exio isn't the Ti = titan?
04:43 hmmmm no
04:44 Exio ah
04:44 hmmmm it's just a designation given to a trimmed-down version of that series' 70
04:44 hmmmm despite what the naming says, it has more in common with a 670 than it does a 660
04:45 Exio the specs of my 350ARS (70~ USD) GPU http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gt-610/specifications
04:45 hmmmm yikes, that was $70?
04:45 hmmmm that's overpaying by US standards
04:46 Exio argentina prices
04:46 hmmmm that sucks
04:46 Exio my mobo (m5a99x) was 1050 ARS == 200~ USD
04:47 Exio GeForce GTX660 TI Ddr5 2 Gb Pci-E
04:47 Exio hmmmm: this gpu?
04:47 hmmmm yeah
04:47 hmmmm well, that's just what i'm planning on
04:47 hmmmm i'd prefer the generation after Kepler if possible
04:47 Exio 2845 ARS / 550 USD
04:48 hmmmm now that's crazy
04:48 hmmmm it's less than half as much here
04:48 Exio yep, :P
04:48 Exio most of stuff here is like that
04:49 hmmmm sometimes i wonder if i can start a business where i sell computer hardware in other countries for much lower prices
04:49 hmmmm customs tax and other things can't possible be _that_ much
04:49 Exio lol
04:49 hmmmm possibly*
04:49 VanessaE hmmmm: fwiw, I can't even do a consistent 60 fps on my badass system, with the default textures.
04:50 hmmmm what is your video card?  you never mentioned that
04:50 VanessaE (scrolled back)
04:50 VanessaE an AMD/ATI HD6870 with 1GB VRAM and the Catalyst drivers.
04:50 hmmmm sounds like there's something wrong for you
04:50 VanessaE yup, always has been.
04:50 hmmmm maybe your AA settings are too high
04:51 VanessaE in 16px mode, I turn off all those settings.
04:51 Exio other price if you wonder of my actual and "new" setup: 164 usd for the cpu bulldozer x6 6100
04:51 hmmmm bulldozer :/
04:51 Exio VanessaE: can you check in your minetest.conf if you have any "fsaa"?
04:51 VanessaE Exio: I do not run in fullscreen.
04:51 VanessaE (and no, I don't have)
04:52 Exio hmmmm: what's up by the bulldozer?
04:52 Exio VanessaE: fsaa != fullscreen :P
04:52 VanessaE Exio: the fs part stands for full screen :_)
04:52 VanessaE :)
04:52 Exio hehe
04:52 VanessaE (fsaa does nothing if you're not running fullscreen mode)
04:53 hmmmm exio, bulldozer has rather poor performance compared to Intel cpus of the same generation
04:53 Exio hmmmm: yep, that is like always, intel always "win" in that thing
04:54 Exio but, i don't buy intel because price and because i can buy a decent mobo "today" and in some years just upgrade the cpu
04:54 hmmmm bulldozer is slower than its predecessor in many benchmarks too
04:54 Exio phenom x6, yes, it was a "unfinished" if we can say gen
04:54 hmmmm oh my
04:54 hmmmm we should probably talk about this in #minetest
04:55 Exio haha
04:55 hmmmm i just realized we're spamming up the dev channel
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06:27 hmmmm i feel like i'm repeating myself by saying this, but turning presdigitator away was such a great move
06:28 hmmmm actually this same thought pops up into my mind whenever i go read his code
06:28 hmmmm he does the exact opposite of the entire style of minetest, the coding style, the constructs, everything
06:30 hmmmm and he was so totally wrong about his object model making things easier to use... nobody could possibly be more wrong about anything, ever
06:30 hmmmm this is horrible
06:30 hmmmm may god help his employers.
06:33 * VanessaE hands hmmmm some bread and mayo to go with the aforementioned spam ;-)
06:41 hmmmm also, he doesn't even implement the two "more difficult" ways of modulating noise with noise, the number of octaves and spread factors
06:41 hmmmm :/
06:42 hmmmm so his entirely new noise.cpp was just basically what we already had with everything renamed, a completely different object model, and implementations of simplex and improved perlin noise that we could've gotten from a sample implementation off the internet
06:43 hmmmm ...there was no real value to this contribution at all
06:49 VanessaE for celeron55 -->  http://ifunny.mobi/#IJ3uoo8J
06:49 VanessaE :D
07:25 hmmmm there's vanessa being random again
07:26 VanessaE :P
07:27 Exio bad
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11:09 qwook hello
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13:10 sapier if anyone is so addicted to texture atlas I'll leave it in there .. it's not much of a difference as it's only a single function ;-)
13:10 sapier and two loops :-)
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13:44 sapier grrr ... is there any reason for SourceAtlasPointer not being a pointer but a struct object?
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13:48 hmmmm probably not
13:49 hmmmm how does this terrain make you feel?
13:49 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaHlkMg
13:49 sapier ok its a index/link to somethin within atlas ... don't know how to name it correct but "pointer" is somehow missleading in c/c++
13:49 sapier wow
13:49 sapier looks great
13:50 hmmmm "looka great"?
13:50 hmmmm looks*
13:50 hmmmm that's just two noises
13:50 sapier after removing all of those bogus memory leaks I may have identified those ones who might be the big ones
13:50 hmmmm what were they
13:51 sapier of course node type variation is a little bit small but I guess this is a minor problem
13:52 sapier it's where we expected them on texture download I just don't fully understand why there is memory lost ... what valgrind shows might be only top of ice as those are references to irrlicht structures ... but I'm not quite sure
13:53 hmmmm hmmm
13:53 sapier maybe it's even related to localy overriding textures ... testing is a little bit time consuming with minetest running in valgrind ;)
13:58 sapier btw I've got 1 random leak within sqlite and another one within irrlicht shaders left I can't find out why they happen
14:03 hmmmm you know, valgrind isn't always accurate
14:03 hmmmm it could just be wrong
14:03 sapier maybe but by now it was very accurate
14:04 hmmmm how do you know it's a memory leak?
14:05 sapier memory allocated but not feed is per definition a memory leak :) and it's quite easy to detect so I do believe in valgrinds abilities to detect this
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14:05 hmmmm well
14:05 hmmmm could be something that the sqlite people just couldn't avoid
14:05 hmmmm *shrug*
14:05 hmmmm http://www.zimg.eu/i/3476640221
14:06 sapier maybe that's why I don't really bother about this one
14:06 sapier interesting ... imho a little bit to many small rivers
14:06 hmmmm that's because of log()
14:07 hmmmm i need to add a curve to it so it doesn't hit a negative number all the time
14:07 sapier I'm more concerned about the shader leak ... it's small but I don't know how many data is hidden behind it
14:08 sapier as long as data is held within irrlicht data structures it's not lost (according to valgrind) but of course it may not be accessible by minetest
14:11 sapier did you ever search for "tilt" in google?
14:13 hmmmm erm, no
14:13 hmmmm oh yeah it'll tilt your screen
14:13 hmmmm almost forgot about that
14:15 sapier btw we're missing some easter eggs within minetest ;-)
14:15 celeron55 i once had planned that minetest should work so that it would run the menu using an irrlicht software device and then open a new irrlicht device with acceleration; then when that is closed, all textures and stuff related to it will be removed by irrlicht
14:16 celeron55 quite an oldskool way to do it, but it would work
14:16 celeron55 of course now that the menu has clouds and whatever, it's less of an alternative
14:16 sapier yes but I should be fixable without this too I already managed to fix most problems on shutdown/logoff
14:17 sapier I don't lose memory now when connecting to server without local textures (in terms of valgrind memory loss) ... can't tell if there's memory burried within irrlicht by now
14:21 celeron55 irrlicht caches all kinds of things
14:22 sapier I know but as far as I understand as soon as reference count is zero it's deleted
14:23 celeron55 not for everything i think; but i guess you can find that out
14:23 sapier and most of the memory leaks haven't even been within irrlicht ... by number most common reason for memory leaks was gettext
14:23 celeron55 that's just real memory leaks
14:23 celeron55 valgrind will be completely happy with irrlicht keeping unnecessary caches
14:23 sapier yes
14:24 celeron55 and that'll be like 1000x more than anything else can possibly be
14:24 sapier but valgrind can tell you if you're loosing references to irrlicht data instead of freeing it
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14:24 celeron55 that applies only to losing reference counted data by forgetting to count it to zero
14:25 celeron55 it doesn't apply to caches that irrlicht properly manages (without freeing)
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14:26 Nore_ I have an idea for infinite maps.
14:26 sapier yes ... but it's a good point to start with as soon as minetest itself is clean irrlicht internal glitches aren't burried below thousands of errors
14:26 celeron55 i think you should start by finding everything in IVideoDriver that is related to clearing caches
14:26 Nore_ It's Irrlicht that causes the limit no?
14:26 sapier I assume it's your memory that causes some limits ;-)
14:27 Nore_ about the limit of map coordinates
14:27 celeron55 Nore_: first make a youtube video of you waking from 0 to 31000
14:27 celeron55 walking*
14:27 celeron55 then we can talk
14:27 Nore_ but some servers have a big map
14:28 Nore_ they are limited by coordinates
14:28 Nore_ so if we substa
14:28 proller .. using indev magpen, with hi mountains at 10000
14:28 ShadowNinja I know that has happened on redcrabs server
14:28 Nore_ so if we substracted a number from the coordinates
14:28 ShadowNinja but verticaly
14:29 Nore_ so that Irrlicht has no coordinate too big, it should work, no?
14:29 sapier the 31k is due to coordinates being 16 bits for performance reasons (at least as far as I know)
14:29 Jordach or just made a long float
14:29 Nore_ isn't it irrlicht internal reasons?
14:29 celeron55 it is not a matter of absolute limits in numbers; it is a limit on float precision
14:30 Nore_ and if we used doubles?
14:30 celeron55 irrlicht does not support doubles for where minetest would require to accurately render further than roughly +-30000 things (it becomes terribly imprecise there already)
14:31 Nore_ yes, but for irrlicht, we could substact enough to get something less than 1000
14:31 celeron55 then you need more precision and you have the exact same result
14:31 celeron55 absolute floating point precision is exactly correlated to how large the number is
14:32 Nore_ minetest could handle doubles, and we give floats to irrlicht after having substracted a big number to get coordinates +-1000
14:32 Nore_ Minetest could then have bigger maps
14:32 celeron55 so you are telling us to rebuilt the world geometry using an offset when the player moves further?
14:32 celeron55 rebuild*
14:33 celeron55 quite much work for no actual benefit
14:34 Nore_ is it that complicated to shift the coordinates only for one client?
14:34 celeron55 also, 16bit coordinates allow certain kinds of very useful things, like hashing v3s16 into one lua number (which supports 52 bits of exact integers or whatever)
14:34 celeron55 and they are integral to the map format
14:35 Nore_ so maps will ever be limited to +-32000?
14:36 rarkenin What about scaling the scene down?
14:36 sapier unless someone adds another level of indirection this is most likely to be true
14:36 celeron55 rarkenin: 17:31:24 < celeron55> absolute floating point precision is exactly correlated to how large the number is
14:36 celeron55 you gain exactly nothing by doing that
14:36 sapier what exactly would be benefit of having bigger maps?
14:37 rarkenin And having multiple scenes swapped in/out was a no-no?
14:37 Nore_ some servers than are running since a long time are out of surface
14:37 celeron55 Nore_: show us one
14:37 rarkenin What about having the player stationary in the center, then moving the mesh aroound the player.
14:38 rarkenin So any mesh generation and mesh-sending-to-Irrlicht occurs near 0,0,0 in Irrlicht space.
14:38 sapier rarkenin that doesn't fix the coordinate problem
14:38 Nore_ ok... some servers that are running since a long time could be out of surface space
14:38 Nore_ rarkenin: I had the same idea, but there are other problems such as map format
14:39 rarkenin sapier: Minetest uses whatever longer format it needs internally, but then what it sends to Irrlicht is all within the draw range, which is hopefully much less than 15000
14:39 celeron55 Nore_: do you understand how large a fully surface-generated minetest world is?
14:39 PilzAdam Id like to have an option for smaller maps, like 1000x1000x1000
14:39 sapier btw you shouldn't forget how crucial coordinates are, if you need to transform them by an arbitrary complex mechanism this will hav impact on performance ... and I guess this wouldn't be minor
14:39 rarkenin What about generating multiple surface levels?
14:39 PilzAdam the mapgen could generate to 1200 or so, so you dont see an edge
14:39 PilzAdam but you cant walk further
14:40 celeron55 Nore_: it will take roughly 1 TERAbyte in compressed format; you couldn't fill it with content even if you paid people to try
14:40 rarkenin So vertically it's like air-air-air-dirt/water/surface-stone-stone-stone-bedrock-air-air-air-surface features
14:40 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: there is a map generation limit in constants.cpp iirc
14:40 PilzAdam yea, but I want a player walk limit
14:40 Nore_ you are probably right...
14:41 rarkenin celeron55: 1 TB if the entire 3d space was visited. The problem lies in that the surface is much more desired than 2000 below sea level
14:41 rarkenin well, you can change the data types where position is stored and recompile irrlicht
14:41 celeron55 rarkenin: the whole 3D space is 15TB
14:42 celeron55 well actually, i overestimated the surface height probably; but on the other hand i have no idea how much space a piece of map actually takes
14:42 celeron55 (only have some rough memories from years ago)
14:42 rarkenin Yeah, but it's still a good chunk of height. From -2000 to 2000 is a TB.
14:43 rarkenin Just how painful would it be to refactor all of Irricht's doubles to quad-precision floats?
14:43 celeron55 in any case, nobody is interested to do anything you are talking about
14:43 sapier it's already painfull to refactor thoughtless use of new :-)
14:43 celeron55 it's a terrible amount of work and complicates the codebase
14:44 celeron55 every core developer would hate anyone who would do that
14:44 rarkenin Ah, I see.
14:44 hmmmm there is no benefit at all to adding more range
14:44 hmmmm it will never be done, ever in minetest
14:44 sapier maybe some sort of multiple maps within a single server could be done
14:44 hmmmm if you want that to happen, you're going to have to fork minetest, do it yourself, and then convince everybody who currently uses minetest that your fork is so much better
14:44 sapier so once you reach the edge of a map you continue on another one ;-)
14:44 celeron55 a thing which *could* be done is dividing the vertical space to multiple surfaces
14:45 celeron55 it's mainly a mapgen problem, maybe a bit of a lighting one too (but not major)
14:45 sapier yes another possible solution ... this would require pilzadams movement limits too
14:46 celeron55 not really; what's the problem of climbing to the bottom of the upper world? :P
14:46 hmmmm hey buttholes, before you start deciding what to do with the vertical space, i'll have you know that i'm using that for hell and sky biomes
14:46 rarkenin The problem is figuring out the topology of the world.
14:46 hmmmm stop ruining my plans
14:46 hmmmm ;-;
14:46 celeron55 but really, i suggest just not caring
14:47 sapier I remeber that ancient picture where a farmer is looking through sky-sphere to se what's behind
14:47 celeron55 it is only an imagined problem
14:47 celeron55 we have real problems too
14:47 Nore_ in fact, the actual problem is the file size limit, no?
14:47 sapier true ... like memory getting lost everywhere ;-)
14:47 hmmmm i want to not save mapblocks if nothing has been modified since generation
14:48 Nore_ I have seen that sqlite couldn't handle files bigger than 4GB
14:48 hmmmm that alone should massively cut down on space consumption, but then again, break things like minetestmapper
14:49 proller sky test already on my very-dev server, can try "Sky hardcore" in list
14:49 proller spawn at 30000 at float lands
14:49 Nore_ If you did that, you could even stone only nodes that have changed since mapgen
14:50 celeron55 hmmmm: maybe minetest should include a mapper in itself
14:50 hmmmm yeah
14:50 celeron55 minetestserver --run-mapper map.png
14:50 proller +1
14:50 proller but with height param
14:51 Nore_ moreover, I think someone has rewritten minetestmapper in C++
14:51 hmmmm that kind of reminds me of my early map preview idea that i was going to do
14:51 celeron55 Nore_: it's probably not useful as it doesn't use irrlicht nor minetest's internal map handling systems
14:51 sapier hmm combinin this with a canvas to be used from lua we could even have a working map ;-)
14:51 celeron55 Nore_: but dunno; he who tries will find out
14:53 celeron55 but once again, it is definitely a thing that will be included upstream if somebody does it well
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15:00 ds-2k For multiple maps on one server, Jeija has a branch with reconnect commands: https://github.com/Jeija/minetest/tree/rejoin
15:01 sapier yes but reconnect is quite difficult to manage if you want to avoid passwords being useless
15:04 Calinou sapier: why?
15:05 sapier normaly you don't save passwords after sending them to server for security reasons so a reconnect would require a different way to decide if client really is who it pretends to be
15:05 sapier but as long as password transfer isn't encrypted this most likely is of no relevance
15:06 sapier LEAK SUMMARY:
15:06 sapier ==20363==    definitely lost: 672 bytes in 6 blocks
15:06 sapier after 4 reconnects with 64px textures
15:07 sapier and those 6 blocks are burried somewhere within shader code
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15:35 proller hmmmm, new flags use -        flags = ["absheight"],      ? im now making flag for spring
15:35 hmmmm erm
15:35 hmmmm obviously water springs shouldn't be an ore flag
15:35 hmmmm there's a better way to do this
15:36 proller how better ?
15:36 proller special flag ?
15:36 hmmmm no, in the settings like before
15:36 hmmmm except
15:36 hmmmm we need to figure out how to read the mapgen parameters from lua
15:37 hmmmm that's really the problem
15:37 hmmmm i'll figure something out
15:37 proller in wich settings ?
15:38 hmmmm the map metadata settings
15:42 hmmmm honestly, i think (especially for right now) it'd be best to use the regular minetest.conf settings to decide if you register underground springs as ores though
15:42 proller but somewhere must be flag for setting param2=128 (on ore gen), and general flag for enabling springs (in map data)
15:42 hmmmm oh right i forgot that
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15:43 hmmmm instead of just a nodename, i'll take in a node structure
15:43 hmmmm so you'd be able to do ore = {name="water_source", param2=0xF0}
15:44 hmmmm hmmm
15:44 * proller want 8)
15:44 hmmmm this has more use than setting levels for finite water
15:44 * hmmmm is thinking of stars
15:45 jojoa1997|Tablet can we use ore generation function in mods
15:45 proller i want make leveled snow
15:45 hmmmm jojoa, that's the whole point...
15:46 jojoa1997|Tablet is there a branhc that has some features not in dev
15:46 jojoa1997|Tablet like gui bar api
15:46 jojoa1997|Tablet or something
15:46 jojoa1997|Tablet maybe rivers?
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15:47 hmmmm yes, i can tell you want new features
15:47 hmmmm new features need to be made first
15:48 jojoa1997|Tablet i read the todo in dev wiki and thought it said some features were made but not yet merged on basis of being not good
15:48 hmmmm http://www.zimg.eu/i/3476640221
15:48 Exio there is a stuff like the mapgen v7 what was "wrote" just as POC before, (iirc for hmmmm code)
15:48 Exio (for defining the biomes and so on)
15:48 hmmmm how's that for rivers
15:49 jojoa1997|Tablet oh rivers
15:49 jojoa1997|Tablet good
15:49 hmmmm i just did that an hour ago
15:49 jojoa1997|Tablet hmmmm that is actually really good
15:49 jojoa1997|Tablet awesome
15:49 jojoa1997|Tablet also has there been code made for water above 0
15:49 hmmmm no
15:50 hmmmm you probably don't realize how difficult that is to control
15:50 hmmmm i tried something like that with water as ore above ground replacing dirt_with_grass, and it just made flooded, messy hills
15:51 jojoa1997|Tablet what about
15:51 jojoa1997|Tablet a node that digs a hole in ground and places water
15:52 hmmmm i guess you can do that if you'd like
15:53 hmmmm right now, in Lua
15:53 hmmmm randomly select a spot and then dig a hole deep enough so that its height is lower than all the surrounding nodes, then fill it with water up to the lowest node on its edge
15:55 proller or make seasons&rain&snow , ant it fill all holes
15:55 hmmmm well, that could work too, but he wants it generated that way
15:57 sapier wow I just managed to reduce memory leak from 1.2k textures per cycle to 3 :-)
15:57 * hmmmm claps
15:57 sapier I think it's time to commit
15:58 hmmmm gggggbbvbvb
15:58 sapier finaly it was quite obvious ... texture source is cleaning up source images but forgets to tell irrlicht about it
15:59 hmmmm 0.4.6 is being released on wednesday
15:59 hmmmm should this wait?
15:59 PilzAdam yes, definetly
15:59 PilzAdam also, why isnt the feature freeze in the channel topic?
15:59 sapier still somewhere is still lots of memory lost
16:00 hmmmm because i don't have ops
16:00 PilzAdam me neither
16:00 PilzAdam core devs should be ops in this channel
16:01 sapier no it aaint after 10 start's I've lost only 30mb instead of 60mb per cycle as before
16:01 sapier should I read atlas in order to get this merged to 0.4.6?
16:02 hmmmm i don't think it's a good idea to do anything else that doesn't absolutely need to be done this soon
16:02 PilzAdam we dont merge anything in except the new translations until 0.4.6
16:02 hmmmm you were losing 60mb per cycle, really?
16:02 hmmmm i was only losing less than 1mb according to htop anyway
16:02 sapier ok so first 0.4.6 version will be much more stable than latest stable :-) quite funny
16:03 sapier depends on your texture pack
16:03 sapier 64px on vanessaes server is about 60 mb (maybe more I haven't tested without any cleanul)
16:03 sapier 512px it's about 1gb per cycle
16:04 hmmmm this will be a very welcome fix
16:06 sapier I know ;-) hopfully this will fix inventory image corruption too
16:08 PilzAdam if the corruption appears at first startup?
16:12 sapier memory handling was so bad I wouldn't even say it'd not be messed up on first start
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16:14 sapier but in this very special case I wouldn't expect this to be fixed
16:22 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/587 plz review
16:23 PilzAdam commit messages should start with a capital letter
16:23 Exio wasn't the texture atlas "not going" to get removed?
16:24 sapier if you want it back I'll add it back but I don't think it's usefull at all
16:24 Exio PilzAdam: i don't see why that "should be" enforced
16:25 Exio sapier: i, personally, don't care about the atlas, but there was some discussion yesterday at night about that
16:25 Exio (well, night here :P)
16:26 sapier If anyone would be so carefully in cleaning up allocated memory as pilzadam is with cas sensitiveness ... I wouldn't have had to fix hundreds of bugs prior detecting the real one :-)
16:26 PilzAdam sapier, wtf https://github.com/sapier/minetest/commit/7a51620cda2acb3a4b38e1a0c7a94b88ae720a46#L14L372
16:26 sapier gettext is allocating memory thus spilling it in this case
16:26 sapier within add_key its allocated a second time ;-)
16:27 sapier if you prefere the previous unreadable alignment I'll revert back to it too :-)
16:28 PilzAdam are the strings translated somewere else?
16:28 sapier yes add_key uses wgettext on given parameters again
16:29 PilzAdam its hard to create the correct .po file for this
16:29 sapier signature of add_key expects a std::string so memory allocated by gettext is lost
16:29 sapier I won't fix i18n this can be done by someone else ;-)
16:31 PilzAdam it would be better for your current translation system to call gettext() in in init_keys() instead of add_key
16:32 sapier no it wouldn't as I would have to add a free to any of those lines
16:32 sapier ok a delete[]
16:33 PilzAdam updatedpo.sh doesnt find the strings if you call it in add_key()
16:33 sapier oh ... didn't know about that ... why?
16:34 sapier hmm because it's a parameter used for wget
16:35 PilzAdam it uses xgettext to get get the strings and writes it into minetest.pot
16:36 sapier i hope this is the only place where add_key is used as I need to change it's signature to get this working in a sane was
16:36 sapier way
17:07 sapier ok I've fixed it I hope updatepo.sh is working again
17:09 sapier hmm ... I wouldn't even have needed the additional variables now ...
17:11 Exio well, if MT were C i'd have said "use macros" :P
17:11 Exio was*
17:12 sapier ok new version removes temp variables again
17:13 sapier I do use macros in c++ too ;-)
17:13 sapier for some things you can't beat them
17:14 Exio i tend to overused macros
17:14 Exio s/used/use/
17:15 sapier have a look at the scriptapi cleanup I even use macros to create simple prototype classes ;-)
17:16 sapier there are two different kinds of functions within lua api (modapi part) global functions
17:16 sapier and functions only valid for objects
17:17 sapier later one are e.g objectref functions or luaref functions ... those are added to scriptapi by macro
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17:18 Zamolxis hello earthlings
17:18 Zamolxis how's things?
17:24 hmmmm sapier, what's with changing NULL to 0?
17:24 hmmmm don't do that
17:25 sapier why? NULL is just a relict of old days when different compilers did use different representation for memory and data?
17:25 Kray NULL is semantic
17:25 hmmmm NULL isn't exactly 0
17:25 sapier it is
17:25 hmmmm maybe in certain implementations of C++ it is
17:26 hmmmm it's not universally 0 though
17:26 hmmmm besides, it breaks the coding guidelines
17:26 hmmmm and it implies that whatever you're assigning it to is actually an integer
17:26 hmmmm there are so many reasons why
17:26 sapier NULL isn't even standard
17:26 hmmmm it IS
17:26 hmmmm read the standard
17:26 hmmmm maybe it's not K&R standard but
17:27 hmmmm we don't use K&R C
17:28 sapier even stroustrup suggests not using NULL
17:28 hmmmm screw soupstrup, he's the one who made the abomination of C++
17:28 hmmmm his opinion is pretty much invalid
17:28 Kray C++ should use nullptr
17:28 sapier still NULL is compiler dependent
17:29 sapier it's not a standard definition
17:29 sapier for gcc/g++ NULL is exactly 0
17:30 hmmmm sapier
17:30 sapier but if you persist on using oldfashioned error prone defines I'll switch back to it
17:30 hmmmm C++ standard 1998
17:30 hmmmm page 353, chapter 18, language support library
17:30 Kray the fuck :D
17:30 sapier 1998 ... that's been c++ experimental time
17:30 hmmmm 18.1.4, "The macro NULL is an implementation-defined C++ null pointer constant in this International Standard (4.10)"
17:30 Kray sapier: NULL is _semantic_
17:31 Kray null pointer MIGHT be same as 0, depending on implementation
17:31 Kray but NULL is always null pointer
17:31 hmmmm there is one thing that makes NULL standard though, the integer representation of NULL must equate to 0
17:31 hmmmm but
17:31 sapier NULL is defined so often that it's impossible to predict what it is
17:31 hmmmm now you have to use an implicit cast
17:32 Zamolxis Hey there! do you think it would cause any problems if I removed the separators between inventory grid elements?
17:32 hmmmm also this would screw up overloaded functions
17:32 hmmmm how would it decide whether or not to call foo(void *) or foo(int)
17:32 hmmmm bottom line, it's not right!
17:32 hmmmm use NULL pleaseeeeee
17:32 sapier where do I have to use a cast?
17:32 hmmmm nowhere, that's why it's implicit
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17:33 sapier first of all I'll have a look at this standard ...
17:34 sapier btw 1998 c++ standard is already withdrawn
17:34 sapier http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=25845
17:35 hmmmm hint, all of them are withdrawn when a new standard is out
17:35 hmmmm you don't see us rewriting everything for C++0x because that's the new current standard
17:35 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaHlncQ
17:35 sapier still I need to find a version of this standard to look for it
17:36 sapier ahh
17:36 hmmmm i don't like it when people follow new standards, because it screws up compatibility for everything that isn't fully up-to-date
17:37 hmmmm like i can't even compile C99 on my HP 9000 because its cc is old
17:37 hmmmm that crap shouldn't happen
17:37 hmmmm it should just work in as many places as possible
17:38 sapier wait ... this standard exatly tells what I say NULL is an >>>"implementation-defined"<<< C++ ...
17:38 sapier so meanin if using a different compiler NULL may be something completely different
17:38 hmmmm zamolxis, you can do that, but you need to understand that others probably won't like your modification
17:38 kahrl oh dang, I noticed a long while ago that delete[] solidity; was missing but didn't immediately fix it and then kinda lost track of it
17:39 hmmmm sapier, implementation defined means that different compilers may compile it differently
17:39 hmmmm doesn't mean the usage is different
17:39 hmmmm if that's what implementation defined meant, then the majority of our software would be completely unusable
17:39 sapier if you really want to ensure it's a null pointer we would have to use "null"
17:41 sapier but I'll change it anyway as I'm sure I won't persuade you and it's a waste of time trying
17:41 hmmmm :>
17:41 sapier if this causes portability errors YOU'll be the one to fix it ;-P
17:41 hmmmm i will gladly
17:42 sapier and of course track it down too
17:42 Zamolxis hmmmm, thanks for the reply; I was planning in making the grid separation through an image background, so you don't get your item put back if you accidentaly click in between grid spots; I suppose a drop overlay would be nice too
17:42 sapier I assume that'll be the much more time consuming task
17:43 kahrl I haven't followed this conversation but the standard says NULL is implementation defined, but it also says it is a null pointer constant
17:44 sapier to me "implementation defined" is a keyword to avoid things as far as possible
17:45 kahrl using it in assignment to a pointer or as an argument (except in variable argument lists) is safe
17:45 kahrl that's how I read it, anyway
17:48 sapier yes unless you add some header redefining it to someting different (which is not prohibited by standard)
17:48 kahrl you could also #define if while
17:48 Exio the result binary is implementation defined, don't use them
17:48 sapier but this isn't allowed by standard
17:49 kahrl it's perfectly allowed
17:49 sapier no it isn't ... you can do it but that doesn't mean anything in c ;-)
17:50 kahrl it doesn't make sense to do this in a program (except for ioccc :P) but it is allowed by the standard
17:52 sapier as you can see both of us do understand different things while reading same standard ... should be reason enough to not use things not beeing defined without any room for interpretation ;-)
17:53 sapier still it's already fixed
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17:54 sapier anyone interested in searching the last 3 textures geting lost while client restart?
17:56 sapier VanessaE can you check if this fixes the memory leak for you too?
17:57 hmmmm zamolxis, that sounds pretty good, i know there would be a lot of users interested in that (not me to be honest, i don't have much of an opinion on what goes on in formspec menus)
17:57 VanessaE sapier: I won't be doing any updates or builds today.  :-)
17:57 sapier it's client only ;-)
17:57 hmmmm :-(
17:58 VanessaE hmmmm: I like that! -> http://ompldr.org/vaHlkMg
17:58 sapier ok it's for server too but updating client should be enough to fix it
17:58 hmmmm oh yeah, it's gotten a lot better since then too
17:58 Exio why VanessaE? why not today?
17:58 Exio waiting for the java port? :P
17:58 hmmmm i am going to try to make ridges on those mountains with purely 2d noise
17:59 VanessaE I agree with sapier on this one, too many bodies of water/rivers.  http://www.zimg.eu/i/3476640221
18:01 hmmmm that's obviously just some terrain that was generated, that can easily be fixed by enlarging the spread factor
18:01 hmmmm it's the features that are important
18:03 kahrl if you remove the texture atlas can't you remove a lot of the tile handling code? like removing pos, size and tiled fields in AtlasPointer
18:03 kahrl or just replace AtlasPointer with texture id entirely
18:03 sapier good idea
18:03 sapier no
18:04 sapier atlas pointer contains source image too
18:04 sapier but maybe this isn't required anymore
18:04 kahrl isn't that the SourceAtlasPointer?
18:04 kahrl I haven't looked at this code in a while
18:05 hmmmm hmmm
18:05 hmmmm i have an idea
18:06 hmmmm i store a height map in mapgen v7, what if i were to pass that as the result along with the modified vmanip and whatever else, and a different component of minetest can directly add that to a mapper
18:06 sapier it's an image created by some irrlicht function it doesn't even contain the texture pointer
18:07 hmmmm and that way it can be super fast to get those maps that you hold in your hand like in minecraft
18:15 PilzAdam why does minetest remove the "_game" at the end of game IDs?
18:15 PilzAdam that seems inconsistent to me
18:15 PilzAdam and it isnt documented
18:15 hmmmm you think this a game?
18:16 Exio games/minetest_game/
18:16 kahrl hmmmm: wouldn't that make maps useless in custom maps? or make maps fail to notice custom built stuff?
18:16 kahrl uh, double meaning of map there
18:16 kahrl s/m maps/m worlds
18:17 hmmmm three meanings of maps so far:  map, as in geographical map to tell where something is, a map, as in the world that minetest happens on, and map, as in a 2d (x, y)->value array
18:17 hmmmm but, to answer the question
18:17 kahrl also a scheme function
18:17 hmmmm they don't put peoples' houses on maps in real life!
18:18 rarkenin Yeah, they do. http://maps.google.com
18:18 Exio kahrl: scheme? :D
18:18 kahrl scheme. :D
18:18 kahrl mandatory in freshman year here (at least used to be)
18:18 VanessaE Exio: why not today?  for the same reason the java port was announced.  :-)
18:19 hmmmm oh gosh, MIT!?
18:19 * hmmmm is jealous
18:19 kahrl heh, almost
18:19 Exio i had to learn racket for a course i took, i fell in love with racket and functional programming and so :P
18:19 rarkenin almost?
18:20 kahrl a couple thousand kilometers (or miles) away
18:20 VanessaE there, now I'm caught up.  good afternoon all.
18:20 hmmmm somewhere in germany?
18:20 kahrl yeah
18:21 sapier me too
18:21 hmmmm i think like 66% of people involved with minetest are german
18:21 sapier seams to be
18:21 kahrl I noticed that too
18:22 Exio what about latin america?
18:22 hmmmm not as much
18:22 Exio :P i'm from argentina, kaeza uruguay and who more?
18:22 Exio who too * or whatever
18:22 sapier maybe some of the remaining 34 % ;-)
18:23 hmmmm you know, i'm looking at more output of the logarithmic river terrain, and i don't think i like it
18:24 hmmmm tends to make lots of closed loops and just single windy paths
18:24 hmmmm lightning fractal would probably work better
18:30 hmmmm http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/breaking-richard-stallman-free-software-pioneer-dies/story?id=18855110
18:31 PilzAdam <hmmmm> i think like 66% of people involved with minetest are german <- yes, me and Jeija too
18:33 sapier hmm rba celeron kharl exio vanessae and hmmm are not german are they?
18:33 PilzAdam rba is polish, but lived in berlin for 5 years
18:33 VanessaE rba is polish, c55 is finn, kahrl I dunno, I'm in the US
18:33 hmmmm kahrl is german, celeron is finnish, RBA is polish, exio is argentinian, i'm from the US too
18:34 PilzAdam xyz is russian
18:34 sapier so 66% might be a quite good guess
18:34 hmmmm 90% of statistics are made up on the spot
18:36 sapier did you know gtk theming engine is quite dangerous?
18:36 hmmmm knives are also dangerous
18:37 sapier yea but if you cut your finger you'll notice immediatly ... gtk-themes give just strange errors hard to track down to it's origin
18:38 hmmmm that makes it buggy, not really dangerous...
18:38 sapier ok not quite correct word :)
18:38 VanessaE hmmmm: well didn't you know?  just the wrong combination of gtk code will cause factory robots to gain sentience, and next thing you know we have a Terminator apocalypse on our hands.
18:39 sapier I recently managed to track down my eclipse performance problems to a kde style gtk theme
18:40 Exio VanessaE: sssh, don't tell about that or i will need to share my bunker
18:41 hmmmm vanessa, i think he's referring to more like a uriel-type dangerous
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18:45 VanessaE heh
18:51 proller joined #minetest-dev
18:57 VanessaE here's a question:  Is there any particular, realistic reason that the engine still cares what characters are in a mod foldername?
18:57 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
18:57 VanessaE I mean, can we not disassociate the folder name from the mod name somehow?
18:59 VanessaE (perhaps with a "provides.txt" or something inside the folder - if this is found, read it and disregard the foldername)
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19:01 BlockMen hello
19:03 ShadowNinja a chanop: shouldn't the feature freeze message be prepended to the topic?
19:03 BlockMen just a quick question: who is part core-development-team?
19:04 BlockMen for the new homepage im creating an overview of the community
19:04 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest?tab=members
19:04 BlockMen so just these 7 ppl?
19:04 PilzAdam https://www.ohloh.net/p/minetest-c55
19:04 Exio the *core* team
19:05 Exio people who did anything, is other thing
19:05 ShadowNinja there are core, active, and past contributors
19:05 Exio meh, i need to take english classes :P
19:05 Exio ShadowNinja: and casual contributors!
19:05 PilzAdam BlockMen, look at the credits tab of 0.4.6
19:05 PilzAdam or take this list: https://www.ohloh.net/p/minetest-c55/contributors?query=&amp;sort=commits
19:06 BlockMen credits tab, that is good
19:06 PilzAdam do you have the latest version?
19:06 PilzAdam (of minetest)
19:07 ShadowNinja meaning latest git, not stable
19:07 hmmmm tada http://ompldr.org/vaHlpMg
19:07 PilzAdam if not then here is the list in the code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/guiMainMenu.cpp#L49
19:08 BlockMen thx, was just looking at git ;)
19:08 hmmmm maybe a stream, not really a river
19:08 hmmmm but
19:08 hmmmm proof of concept
19:09 PilzAdam hmmmm, https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/2126bf06d20f6cb5bb6a0dbe728923b228d5c5cb
19:09 hmmmm looks good i guess
19:09 PilzAdam I think this needs to be done before 0.4.6 and the name of minetest_game should be changed
19:09 VanessaE hmmmm: nice
19:09 PilzAdam otherwise people think that its the "main" game
19:10 hmmmm oh come on :/
19:10 hmmmm no more changes
19:10 hmmmm it's not that big of a deal
19:10 Exio that "big" change of minetest_game should be done in 0.4.6 imo
19:10 Exio with luajit, leveldb, etc
19:10 VanessaE Exio: you mean 0.4.7?
19:11 Exio err, what is the actual release?
19:11 Exio ah, yes, 0.4.7
19:11 VanessaE we're working to release 0.4.6
19:11 VanessaE well, they are.  I'm just sitting on the sidelines :P
19:11 hmmmm nonsense, you're an active contributor :)
19:12 VanessaE hmmmm: actively contributing bullshit ideas anyway :D
19:12 hmmmm that is, you have at least two commits present in git from within the last 6 months
19:12 VanessaE true true, I'm just kidding anyways
19:12 PilzAdam you keep telling us what mods are "standard", thats enough to be contributer here
19:12 hmmmm STANDARD
19:13 hmmmm i need to eat lunch
19:13 hmmmm three hours late.  whatever, bbl
19:13 Exio i'm the one who doesn't do anything useful and says bullshit VanessaE
19:13 Exio you at least play minetest! :P
19:15 BlockMen everybody fine with that? http://i.imgur.com/0tfruy5.png
19:16 PilzAdam c55 is a core dev too
19:16 PilzAdam and why have you mixed up the order?
19:17 BlockMen i thought that is obvious
19:17 ShadowNinja s/developer/developers/
19:17 BlockMen but ok, then double mentioned
19:17 PilzAdam no, just delete the "Creator:" completly
19:17 BlockMen alphabetical
19:18 BlockMen * of the nicks
19:18 ShadowNinja will you include active/past contributors?
19:18 PilzAdam just keep the same order as in the credits tab
19:19 BlockMen ShadowNinja, yes
19:19 BlockMen i will include whole credits
19:20 ShadowNinja and are the avatars linked from github?
19:20 PilzAdam *gravatar
19:20 ShadowNinja ah, right
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19:25 proller BlockMen, im not very big commiter to be in game, and its my ugliest photo 8)
19:27 BlockMen proller, should i use the github avatar instead?
19:28 proller its better
19:28 proller and imho sorting must be by blame lines
19:30 BlockMen k, will change. and idk on what the current sorting is based, but it is now like in the credits
19:31 Exio in doubt, l33tness :D
19:33 BlockMen http://i.imgur.com/EE6YZS7.png
19:34 PilzAdam s/developer/developers
19:41 BlockMen k
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19:46 BlockMen does someone know the github of 0gb.us?
19:46 BlockMen nvm
20:12 ShadowNinja celeron55: /msg chanserv topicprepend #minetest-dev **FEATURE-FREEZE FOR 0.4.6 IN EFFECT**?
20:12 Exio i think /msg chanserv flags #minetest-dev hmmmm OP (and same with PilzAdam and people with pussh access)
20:13 PilzAdam +1
20:13 Exio (or +ovirt [what is imo ok for ops])
20:13 ShadowNinja yes, that too
20:15 jojoa1997|Tablet i know it is feature freeze but
20:15 jojoa1997|Tablet is anyone working on moving heads
20:15 Exio heads?
20:15 Exio what?
20:15 jojoa1997|Tablet your head moves where you look
20:15 Exio ah
20:16 Exio no idea, i'll take a look at the player/camera stuff because i want a way to see your own legs (like RE now)
20:16 ShadowNinja ah, kaeza did, it used crazy network and was very laggy
20:16 Exio yes, i want things what i saw in a FPS in MT
20:16 Exio what does anyone thing about that? :P
20:25 BlockMen celeron55, I have finished the new homepage so far and sent the pull request
20:25 BlockMen https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_php/pull/4
20:25 PilzAdam no newline at the end of file
20:25 proller BlockMen, can you make servers tab?
20:25 PilzAdam (support.php)
20:26 PilzAdam (and many others too)
20:26 proller or maybe embed servers script to main page (need voting here)
20:26 BlockMen PilzAdam, i think that is an notepad error...
20:26 sfan5 will my pull get merged or declined?
20:27 BlockMen proller, if celeron55 is ok with the current i had the idea to make a "Game" or "Play tab
20:27 PilzAdam sfan5, hm?
20:27 sfan5 PilzAdam: i think you know which pull I mean
20:27 BlockMen with submenus like games, servers, etcs
20:27 PilzAdam sfan5, get_version()?
20:28 sfan5 PilzAdam: yup
20:29 PilzAdam Im still against it
20:31 sfan5 i know, what about the other people?
20:32 Exio i actually see it very useful (in the way it is actually)
20:32 jojoa1997|Tablet sfan what your pull request do?
20:33 Exio https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/580
20:33 ShadowNinja I like it, but not for what it was intended for, checking for functionality shouldn't be done by version
20:35 BlockMen ok, im off
20:35 BlockMen bye everyone
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22:12 rarkenin Can lua minetest.get_ban_description(username) be called on a player that hasn't been banned yet?
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