| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:06 |
RealBadAngel |
hi hmmmm |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
i was diggin the code related to meshes |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
compability with atlas stops us |
| 00:08 |
RealBadAngel |
even c55 said so |
| 00:09 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: so the question, in short, is: c55 says it's of little or no use, so do we go ahead and start ripping it out, with changed to be merged after the feature freeze |
| 00:09 |
RealBadAngel |
for all my present and future changes atlas option shall be disabled |
| 00:09 |
VanessaE |
s/changed/changes/ |
| 00:09 |
RealBadAngel |
and step by step removed |
| 00:10 |
RealBadAngel |
since core can work without it best solution to start imho is just disable it |
| 00:11 |
Exio |
and adding a "# DEPRECATED" before it in the minetest.conf.example? ^^ |
| 00:11 |
Exio |
until it gets removed |
| 00:11 |
RealBadAngel |
possibly |
| 00:12 |
RealBadAngel |
and plant a cross nearby with RIP |
| 00:12 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 00:14 |
RealBadAngel |
and it deprecated for a long time already |
| 00:14 |
RealBadAngel |
its almost impossible to play game with a few mods installed to suffer from it |
| 00:16 |
RealBadAngel |
we can regain fps in another areas |
| 00:16 |
RealBadAngel |
this particular one was good in minimal game |
| 00:17 |
RealBadAngel |
and is not usable for regular users |
| 00:21 |
hmmmm |
removing the texture atlas is huuge |
| 00:21 |
hmmmm |
let's wait until after the feature freeze, please? |
| 00:21 |
hmmmm |
i mean it's not the end of the world, we can make releases whenever we want |
| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
so nevermind that, let's talk about the F10 bug |
| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
how do i reproduce that? i need to type in a unicode character, presumably, but i have no idea how i'm going to do that |
| 00:23 |
jin_xi |
i have applied your change and can observe that / now works better. had to press it multiple times before, but not everytime... |
| 00:24 |
jin_xi |
i used to get an / that was highlighted and overwritten by whaterver followed |
| 00:24 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, its not huge |
| 00:24 |
RealBadAngel |
ist a single liner almost |
| 00:25 |
RealBadAngel |
disable the setting |
| 00:25 |
RealBadAngel |
then clean the code in area of interest |
| 00:27 |
RealBadAngel |
moreover, as i see in code texture atlas has been made to be 1 tile in size |
| 00:28 |
RealBadAngel |
so when it is disabled tiles are atlases just |
| 00:28 |
RealBadAngel |
with single texture |
| 00:28 |
hmmmm |
alright, so your stuff works fine without the texture atlas, nobody really needs the texture atlas, so we disable it and apply your facedir stuff |
| 00:28 |
hmmmm |
i'm taking your word for it |
| 00:29 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: basically, that's right. after the freeze of course. |
| 00:29 |
VanessaE |
(though to disable by default might be appropriate now, since it acts like a bug to a lot of people) |
| 00:30 |
RealBadAngel |
it is a bug in current state |
| 00:30 |
hmmmm |
alright whatever.. i'll adjust the default settings a little. i'm going to do it while fixing the minetest.conf.example |
| 00:31 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, you can test the code here https://github.com/minetest/minetest |
| 00:32 |
RealBadAngel |
and lua mod with tool to handle new facedir: http://realbadangel.pl/facedirtools.zip |
| 00:33 |
RealBadAngel |
which i think shall be made as default for minetest game |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
i'd like a lot of things to be added to minetest_game, actually, but i'm not going to be the one to actually do it |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
really need to figure out who is in charge of that |
| 00:34 |
RealBadAngel |
because it will allow to rotate everything |
| 00:34 |
RealBadAngel |
PA |
| 00:34 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam seems to mostly hold the keys to that |
| 00:35 |
hmmmm |
so do we wait for him? what about xyz? he's currently around |
| 00:35 |
RealBadAngel |
also next of my patches will require some minetest_game changes |
| 00:35 |
hmmmm |
i'd rather stay out of minetest_game completely |
| 00:35 |
RealBadAngel |
i cannot |
| 00:36 |
RealBadAngel |
im changing drawtypes |
| 00:36 |
RealBadAngel |
also i do have many formspec changes ready |
| 00:37 |
RealBadAngel |
like sliders, checkboxes and popup lists |
| 00:39 |
RealBadAngel |
but those can wait, need to work at whole system a bit more |
| 00:40 |
RealBadAngel |
no hurry, when i made background formspec folks have woke up like 3 months after and started to use it lol |
| 00:44 |
RealBadAngel |
bbl |
| 00:59 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7caa28a6aa50aef43d9231662ad845a4aea27e88 |
| 01:00 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: looks good to me. |
| 02:24 |
|
ShadowNinja joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:16 |
|
toabi joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:19 |
|
ffoxin joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
latest build of MT segfaults at startup for me now. |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5572628/ |
| 06:15 |
VanessaE |
just the client; server seems unaffected. |
| 06:17 |
hmmmm |
can you find the exact commit where it starts doing that? |
| 06:17 |
VanessaE |
one of the last two that were submitted yesterday. |
| 06:18 |
VanessaE |
lemme check |
| 06:18 |
VanessaE |
(probably 0183bd[...]) |
| 06:19 |
hmmmm |
did you recently update irrlicht or something? |
| 06:20 |
VanessaE |
nope. Just did a git pull to update my server at someone's request. |
| 06:20 |
VanessaE |
I was running from the feb. 25 update before. |
| 06:23 |
VanessaE |
*sigh* |
| 06:23 |
VanessaE |
I'll bet some random system update broke it |
| 06:24 |
hmmmm |
older versions not working either? |
| 06:24 |
VanessaE |
still checking. |
| 06:25 |
VanessaE |
went back to 979ca23[...] and still segfaulting at startup. |
| 06:27 |
VanessaE |
lemme try rebuilding irrlicht. |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
try going back to 9bd76f2972 next |
| 06:28 |
VanessaE |
willdo |
| 06:30 |
VanessaE |
also, as an aside: don't hard-code /usr/lib for irrlicht libs. /usr/local/lib is just as valid. |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
i didn't code /usr/lib |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
where is it hardcoded |
| 06:31 |
VanessaE |
[ 98%] Building CXX object src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/game.cpp.o |
| 06:31 |
VanessaE |
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/libIrrlicht.a', needed by `bin/minetest'. Stop. |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
why is your libirrlicht in local? |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
that's only a bsd thing |
| 06:32 |
VanessaE |
because that's where most linux builds put things if you don't specify a build prefix. |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
really? mm |
| 06:32 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
well i know where to look but i'm not sure how to fix that |
| 06:32 |
VanessaE |
so it's been my experience anyway |
| 06:34 |
hmmmm |
gotta go to sleep, sorry |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
no worries. |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
I'm sure I'll get it sorted out |
| 06:41 |
|
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| 07:06 |
VanessaE |
yay, got it figured out. |
| 07:06 |
VanessaE |
some system update broke my irrlicht install. All back to normal. |
| 08:02 |
|
troller joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:43 |
|
proller__ joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:32 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: ask calinou for changelog from 0.4.4->0.4.5, he has much of it done already afaik |
| 09:56 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:02 |
|
yno joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:41 |
|
jin_xi joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:56 |
|
darkrose joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:56 |
|
darkrose joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:44 |
|
Exio joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:08 |
|
hmmmm joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:58 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, are you here? |
| 14:59 |
RealBadAngel |
and hello all |
| 15:05 |
|
ShadowNinja joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:17 |
|
PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:21 |
|
iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:57 |
thexyz |
I suggest using dev wiki to make a changelog, http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog |
| 16:21 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:29 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:30 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55, you may be interested in reading this: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&p=278208#p278228 |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
i heard calinou already had a changelog for 0.4.4 - 0.4.5 |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
calinou, care to share? |
| 16:41 |
PilzAdam |
Calinous changelog: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/82342922/0.4.x-changelog.txt |
| 16:41 |
hmmmm |
why does it seem like i never, ever show up in his changelogs |
| 16:41 |
* Calinou |
found a mistake in french translation |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
i mean it's not like i particularily care about e-fame, but it's just an odd thing i noticed |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
fixed |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
PilzAdam: merge latest french translation maybe (fixed "Create world" translation) |
| 16:44 |
PilzAdam |
maybe because you do things that arent visible for the end-user? |
| 16:45 |
PilzAdam |
Calinou, only thexyz can merge it |
| 16:46 |
Calinou |
ok |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
oh by the way pilzadam, since you're around and you're in charge of minetest_game, i think we should seriously talk about adding more content to it |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
maybe not right away but there's a list of things that (i think at least) would be cool to have by default |
| 16:48 |
PilzAdam |
can you give me the list? |
| 16:49 |
hmmmm |
things like obsidian, water and lava mixing into stone, diamond and some other popular ores, mese swords, et cetera |
| 16:49 |
hmmmm |
i don't actually have a *list* but i mean there's just so many things that it could make quite a list |
| 16:50 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: nice graphics and stuff, but where's the source? 8) |
| 16:50 |
hmmmm |
i'm pretty busy today and tomorrow, but i'd like to compile it into a list and maybe you could put each item as a topic to be voted on in the forums |
| 16:50 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55: it is AAA |
| 16:50 |
rubenwardy |
I was pointing out a specific post |
| 16:51 |
celeron55 |
that was a rhetorical question |
| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
ok... |
| 16:51 |
hmmmm |
what is AAA? |
| 16:52 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, the problem is that most people will just vote "Yes" and they dont think about gameplay |
| 16:52 |
hmmmm |
so you think we're better suited to say what actually goes into the game? |
| 16:52 |
rubenwardy |
hmmmm: propietary game |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
another proprietary minecraft...? WTF |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
like Battlefield 3 |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
it is not indie |
| 16:53 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: rubenwardy's link; see the images or videos in it |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
like by an actual game studio..? |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
what game studio is this |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
not sure |
| 16:54 |
rubenwardy |
but it is AAA aparently |
| 16:54 |
celeron55 |
the only thing that actually surprises me in that one (Build A World it is called; let's call it BAW for short) is that it actually uses Irrlicht |
| 16:54 |
hmmmm |
well their rendering looks nice but they will not outdo minetest in sophistication on my watch |
| 16:54 |
proller |
+1 for water and lava mixing to stone, it must be in default_ |
| 16:54 |
rubenwardy |
any comments on the post that is it linked to? |
| 16:54 |
rubenwardy |
"And to whoever is making mine-test, delete the source and start from scratch..." |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
i still stand on my opinion for us needing a small team to decide and design on minetest_game |
| 16:55 |
hmmmm |
hah |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: minetest is useless from their point of view and that makes they say it |
| 16:55 |
hmmmm |
wouldn't it be funny if they took minetest's source and used that |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
them* |
| 16:55 |
hmmmm |
and we wouldn't be able to prove that it's from minetest because they'd have an anti-reverse engineering clause |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
I would quite like to be part of that small team |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
but |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
I doubt I would qualify |
| 16:57 |
hmmmm |
well BAW is clearly using 3d noise for their mapgen |
| 16:58 |
celeron55 |
if i am to choose, that team (well, more like a pair of people) must be quite game design oriented to make it able to steer minetest in a consistent direction rather than just putting random maybe-somehow-themed stuff in it |
| 16:58 |
celeron55 |
i don't want to choose by myself though, and i don't even have any suggestions |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
if somebody feels like being up to that thing, raise your hand now and tell why we might trust you to be in that task long-term |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
it doesn't even involve doing anything much; more like just selecting and polishing things, and asking people to do things |
| 17:01 |
* celeron55 |
thinks he will never find anyone like this, and wonders if there is a viable other way |
| 17:01 |
rubenwardy |
I could do it |
| 17:02 |
thexyz |
AAA means you can go to store and buy the game, doesn't it? |
| 17:02 |
hmmmm |
perhaps you don't look hard enough |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
it is 25 euros |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
no, you do not have to go to the store |
| 17:02 |
thexyz |
then it's not AAA enough |
| 17:02 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: do you have experiene of such? it's not immediately obvious to me why you're raising your head regarding to this |
| 17:03 |
celeron55 |
+c |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
I have made several minigames, and I have studed game design and stuff |
| 17:03 |
* PilzAdam |
raises hand |
| 17:04 |
rubenwardy |
It would be better if I just make a fork, and show you what I can do |
| 17:04 |
celeron55 |
or, like... i have no idea what you would do and whether you might be capable of it, and i am wondering what you think of those |
| 17:04 |
* darkrose |
shoots PilzAdam's hand off |
| 17:04 |
* PilzAdam |
could code stuff |
| 17:05 |
PilzAdam |
and Ill also like to decide wich features are added, but I have no good reason for you to trust me |
| 17:05 |
PilzAdam |
(well, except the mods I made) |
| 17:06 |
celeron55 |
"trust" is kind of a technical thing |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
I am raising my hand because I want to help, and I am interested in that area of development |
| 17:10 |
celeron55 |
so do people think i should try to find out if those wishing (or willing) to steer minetest_game development/design/whatever have goals/visions/whatever that i think are sane? |
| 17:10 |
rubenwardy |
probably |
| 17:10 |
celeron55 |
or is this more like a "take everything you can because there are no alternatives" thing |
| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
there is room for experimentation in upstream, but total failure would be kind of rough 8) |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
My views are that the minetest_game should stay as ready as possible (no map mod, which is only for linux) and lag free, while being "fun" and "playable" on its on |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
*own |
| 17:12 |
celeron55 |
everybody agrees on the first ones; the key here is how to approach the last two |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, that is the problem |
| 17:13 |
celeron55 |
and that is where some people will disagree on, which is why these people will have to have some... balls too (yes, girls can have that kind of balls) |
| 17:15 |
celeron55 |
i find it really hard to figure out what the "spirit of minetest" really is regarding to those |
| 17:15 |
hmmmm |
the BAW guy is pretty lame, look at this stuff in his freelance work page: "But to give you a rough idea, I charge about $4.5/£3 per 100 lines of GLSL code and $12/£8 for 100 lines of C and C++ code . This is not including constants(lookup tables) and empty lines (to give you an idea this is one complicated shader like SSAO)." |
| 17:15 |
hmmmm |
"i charge $12 for 100 lines of code" |
| 17:17 |
thexyz |
minetest'd cost ~10k$ |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
the ex why zee is in da hoooouse |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
what's up. |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
hey, i was wondering if you could start issuing minetest.net email addresses, that'd be really great |
| 17:17 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: umm... according to those prices, more like 10x that |
| 17:18 |
thexyz |
xyz xyz-pc ~/minetest/minetest/src $ cat *.h *.cpp util/* | wc -l |
| 17:18 |
thexyz |
93199 |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
93199 * 12 |
| 17:18 |
celeron55 |
ah, you're right |
| 17:18 |
thexyz |
rubenwardy: / 100 |
| 17:19 |
PilzAdam |
https://www.ohloh.net/p/minetest-c55/analyses/latest/languages_summary |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
damn |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: i don't know what that technically requires |
| 17:19 |
thexyz |
PilzAdam: sqlite3.c/h is 135147 lines |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
crap, the exluded files list has disappeared |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
it can be set here: https://www.ohloh.net/p/minetest-c55/enlistments |
| 17:22 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: the minetest.net domain is owned and paid by a russian gal nicknamed bookwar, and dns is done by freedns.afraid.org, and servers under (*.)minetest.net are hosted by pretty much anyone |
| 17:22 |
hmmmm |
oh.. i thought xyz does all that stuff? |
| 17:23 |
thexyz |
i only host forums |
| 17:23 |
thexyz |
and dev wiki |
| 17:23 |
celeron55 |
and dev wiki 8) |
| 17:23 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, the ignore list is at the minetest_game location... |
| 17:23 |
thexyz |
and probably something more |
| 17:23 |
thexyz |
like http://servers.minetest.net/ |
| 17:23 |
hmmmm |
hmmm |
| 17:23 |
hmmmm |
well i dunno, i just thought the @minetest.net email addresses would be pretty cool since it'd add to the professionalism |
| 17:24 |
* celeron55 |
wonders how many people actually know the internet mail standard |
| 17:32 |
darkrose |
42 |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
oh goooood |
| 17:34 |
* celeron55 |
is looking for a simple thing about a part of a value in a DNS field, and even the wikipedia article about the field, being multiple pages long, doesn't say it |
| 17:35 |
darkrose |
what thing in what field? |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
minetest.net currently has an MX record with the value 10:mail.c55.me |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
and my question is: what the fuck is "10:" |
| 17:37 |
thexyz |
priority? |
| 17:37 |
thexyz |
>MX records are in the format of PRI:ADDRESS. Where PRI is the MX priority, and ADDRESS is the hostname of the mail server (Not IP!) |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
where did you get that |
| 17:38 |
thexyz |
try to add MX record @ freedns.afraid.org |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
wat? |
| 17:40 |
celeron55 |
if i click the "explanation" link on freedns.afraid.org, it tells me nothing about such |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
which is just plain utterly ridiculous |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
so as does not wikipedia |
| 17:41 |
thexyz |
no, click "Save!" button without filling anything in (except changing "Type" to "MX") |
| 17:41 |
thexyz |
user friendly! |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
... |
| 17:42 |
celeron55 |
okay so anyway |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
if i add an MX record here with a "subdomain", it will actually end up redirecting that mail address to the smtp server filled in as destination |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
i... think |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
so who wants to try? |
| 17:43 |
|
ffoxin joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
i think this has high odds of failing due to some kind of spam policies |
| 17:45 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: tell me your e-mail address and your preferred minetest.net e-mail address |
| 17:45 |
hmmmm |
mirrorisimgmail.com, kwolekrminetest.net |
| 17:46 |
thexyz |
are you going to use your own mail server? |
| 17:46 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 17:47 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: you need to at least add that address to gmail's allowed addresses |
| 17:47 |
hmmmm |
ok |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
hrmm how do i do that |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
import mail and contacts? |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
add a pop3 mail account you own? |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
no, lol |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
also, me: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31450812.jpg |
| 17:49 |
hmmmm |
that's the way sysadmining is always like unless you've done it a couple times before |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: "accounts and import" |
| 17:50 |
hmmmm |
but it's usually something that you do once and not again for quite a while |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
hmm... actually |
| 17:50 |
hmmmm |
i am looking at accounts and import |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
there is "Send mail as:", which is what i was thinking, but now i'm not actually exactly sure if it is needed for this kind of thing |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
hmmmm |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
s/i'm not actually exactly sure/i have no goddamn idea/ |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
if the account is set up already, i'd just need the login details to access it from an email client |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
i'd use thunderbird or pine |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
pine, lol |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
the bit about pine was a joke |
| 17:52 |
celeron55 |
actually, i think this does not work this way |
| 17:53 |
celeron55 |
i need an actual mail server to take in SMTP |
| 17:53 |
thexyz |
why not just use gmail or something like that? |
| 17:53 |
celeron55 |
and to forward it |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
c55.me is incapable of hosting SMTP because it's a consumer ADSL that blocks SMTP to all directions |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
8) |
| 18:01 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55: have you seen this? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_php/pull/1#issuecomment-14125836 |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: are you able to provide an smtp server? |
| 18:04 |
thexyz |
I've never configured a smtp server |
| 18:04 |
thexyz |
I'm also not sure why don't you want to use some hosted alternative |
| 18:05 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: remove the .gitignore modification and squash it to two commits, 1) header/footer fix, 2) content fixes |
| 18:05 |
celeron55 |
then it should be prefect-ish 8) |
| 18:06 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: i don't want to use anything and have no idea of what i am doing; ask hmmmm :P |
| 18:07 |
thexyz |
celeron55: well, I use yandex mail for my domains, works flawlessly |
| 18:07 |
hmmmm |
nevermind on that whole idea, i guess. i didn't expect it to be as difficult as it turned out to be |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
probably not worth the effort |
| 18:08 |
thexyz |
celeron55: should be easy to setup, has web-interface, pop3 & imap |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
but how would you get a foominetest.net to go to there? |
| 18:09 |
celeron55 |
that is the question |
| 18:09 |
thexyz |
celeron55: you have to add MX record pointing to mx.yandex.ru. |
| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
that means all @minetest.net mail is going to go to yandex? |
| 18:10 |
thexyz |
yes |
| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
that's not something i am willing to do |
| 18:10 |
thexyz |
why? |
| 18:12 |
celeron55 |
i think the questions is more like "why would i" |
| 18:12 |
celeron55 |
-s |
| 18:13 |
thexyz |
fine |
| 18:13 |
thexyz |
well, you asked for mail server |
| 18:13 |
thexyz |
that's why i suggested it |
| 18:14 |
thexyz |
now you ask >why would i |
| 18:15 |
celeron55 |
well i guess if more people think they would use it, then maybe |
| 18:15 |
* sfan5 |
would use *@minetest.net mail |
| 18:15 |
celeron55 |
...at yandex? |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_php/pull/2 |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
spandex |
| 18:15 |
celeron55 |
does yandex differ from gmail in that sense? (not that i really would want that either) |
| 18:16 |
sfan5 |
also *@dev.minetest.net for people involved in development with minetest |
| 18:16 |
thexyz |
what's the problem with yandex? it's not like their IMAP differs from some other IMAP |
| 18:17 |
* sfan5 |
corrects his answer: s/no/maybe/ |
| 18:17 |
thexyz |
also, it seems google does not provide free google apps anymore |
| 18:18 |
sfan5 |
it doesn't? |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
well the idea was that minetest.net email addresses were for people involved with development, why would you give out email addresses to regular end users exactly? |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
like @xfce.org for example, they don't have @dev.xfce.org |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
that makes sense |
| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
GIT: minetest-services commited to minetest/minetest: <-- what? |
| 18:21 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: how do you make a yandex account to correctly eat @minetest.net mail? |
| 18:21 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:21 |
celeron55 |
i think in a normal situation such would be considered simply spam, and gmail doesn't seem to have a way to enable such |
| 18:23 |
sfan5 |
s/what?/who is minetest-services?/ |
| 18:23 |
thexyz |
celeron55: you confirm domain (by uploading html file to web root), then add MX records, then add accounts, then receive/send mail |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
what happens if yandex already has an account called "asdf" and somebody wants to have asdfminetest.net |
| 18:24 |
thexyz |
yandex has an account called asdf, but asdfminetest.net is a different one |
| 18:24 |
darkrose |
not connected, account names are per-domain |
| 18:25 |
thexyz |
sfan5: weblate |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
oh,ok |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
so asdf and asdfminetest.net are usernames? |
| 18:25 |
thexyz |
>account names are per-domain |
| 18:25 |
thexyz |
after confirming domain you may add accounts for it |
| 18:26 |
thexyz |
limit is 1000 mailboxes, iirc |
| 18:26 |
thexyz |
then you can login to it either via IMAP or by using web-interface (i.e. http://mail.yandex.ru/for/minetest.ru) |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
why not host our own mailserver? |
| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
so the domain owner specifies what addresses under his domain belong to what yandex accounts? |
| 18:27 |
thexyz |
sfan5: why should we do that? |
| 18:27 |
thexyz |
celeron55: aww, you totally don't get it |
| 18:28 |
celeron55 |
i have tried to get it in multiple ways already |
| 18:28 |
thexyz |
celeron55: you create accounts specifying nameminetest.net & password, then users login via IMAP or from http://mail.yandex.ru/for/minetest.net |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
technically you can't trust anyone, so you can't trust yandex.ru |
| 18:28 |
thexyz |
they don't need to have yandex account |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy|away |
byb |
| 18:29 |
thexyz |
sfan5: of course you cannot |
| 18:29 |
celeron55 |
ehm... well then, who is going to manage this? |
| 18:29 |
thexyz |
you? me? |
| 18:29 |
thexyz |
both of us? |
| 18:29 |
celeron55 |
interesting fact: if the addresses were foodev.minetest.net, thexyz could do everything right away |
| 18:29 |
sfan5 |
the language yandex.ru is perfectly readable </ironic> |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
+uses |
| 18:30 |
thexyz |
sfan5: it is |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
you are russian, you can read it |
| 18:30 |
thexyz |
but I have never used any other mail provider with an option to add your own domain |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
<sfan5> why not host our own mailserver? |
| 18:30 |
thexyz |
sfan5: who would do that? |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
^ i gave you an argument for that |
| 18:31 |
sfan5 |
you? (maybe) |
| 18:31 |
thexyz |
I won't |
| 18:31 |
thexyz |
I'm not that experienced |
| 18:31 |
thexyz |
and mail server should have →100% uptime |
| 18:31 |
thexyz |
(i believe) |
| 18:31 |
* sfan5 |
agrees in that point |
| 18:32 |
sfan5 |
but don't need to be experienced, you could try hosting a mail server to see if it works fine (~100% uptime,etc.) |
| 18:32 |
sfan5 |
*very experienced |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
isn't yandex.com same as yandex.ru? |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
except for the language |
| 18:32 |
thexyz |
it is |
| 18:35 |
celeron55 |
well, do whatever you wish, i'm not going to care (and can set the mail of minetest.net to go to yandex if people end up at that) |
| 18:35 |
celeron55 |
i was going to try to get the minetest_game stuff further today but now my head hurts so much i'll just go hide again -> |
| 18:35 |
hmmmm |
those build-a-world guys really slammed minetest on the irrlicht forums about the framerate |
| 18:36 |
thexyz |
ok |
| 18:36 |
hmmmm |
it's like the only thing they're concerned about is the graphics rendering and effects |
| 18:37 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
| 18:37 |
hmmmm |
but, seriously, why does minetest get such bad framerates? what are others doing that is so much more optimal? |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
<- |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
of course it is all they care |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
irrlicht is solely a 3d graphics library |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
(well, mostly) |
| 18:38 |
PilzAdam |
re: minetest_game: I have a farming branch hanging arround but the only texture I have for them are from RBA and he stole them from MC |
| 18:39 |
sfan5 |
thats like complaining about other programs framerates because the use OpenGL too |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: i don't even know, because i don't even care; but at default settings minetest will never do more than 60 because it caps it at that, and some people expect it to run freely because FPS FPS YAY FPS |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
i have fps_wanted set to 30 actually |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
i can't notice a difference below that, and i just like having more cpu time for other things |
| 18:42 |
celeron55 |
but as far as i know, minetest performs relatively poorly on high-end GPUs because of small batch sizes (so to say) |
| 18:43 |
hmmmm |
hahah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3GkkSv2uVU - the video comment - "Yes, anything will crash down in Build A World... just like the real world" - very realistic - you can hold a tower up with a single 1 cubic meter block |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
just add an extra step to combine mapblcok meshes (like 2x2x2 to 1, or even 3x3x3 to 1) and set those to be buffered on the GPU side (because then that buffering will actually matter; now it would do nothing) |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
and then you have way more performance |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
mapblock* |
| 18:44 |
hmmmm |
the texture atlas |
| 18:44 |
hmmmm |
right now doesn't it only do 1x1 node tiles |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
no? it contains tiled textures |
| 18:46 |
hmmmm |
sorta thought that was done already |
| 18:46 |
hmmmm |
hrmm perhaps the graphics need a bit more attention |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
there isn't much to be gained in this |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
i mean, via tiling or atlasing |
| 18:47 |
celeron55 |
tiling is surprisingly ineffective, you don't generally get even 50% gains with it, and like exactly 50% with a perfect 2d tiling algorithm |
| 18:49 |
celeron55 |
minetest gets like 10-30% with non-smooth lighting and 5-10% with smooth lighting (because it's done at the vertex level) |
| 18:52 |
celeron55 |
on a modern GPU that means absolutely nothing, because batch sizes are so small; on a 2005 laptop that does do a bit of good |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
i have nothing to support keeping the texture atlas anymore, but such should be tried to be found, and if it is not, then it should be removed |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
what is the default wanted_fps value? |
| 18:54 |
PilzAdam |
30 |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
celeron55: where is the code that caps fps to 60? |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
in conf |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
wanted_fps? |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
i set that to 1000 |
| 18:57 |
PilzAdam |
fps_max limits the fps |
| 18:57 |
PilzAdam |
its 60 by default |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
i set that to 1500 |
| 18:59 |
rubenwardy |
What are batch sizes? |
| 19:00 |
celeron55 |
the fps tuner works so that it actively tries to adjust the rendering range so that it runs at wanted_fps, and if raising the range doesn't lower the fps to max_fps, it will sleep so that it runs at max_fps |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
rising* |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: basically mesh sizes |
| 19:02 |
rubenwardy |
a ha. Would it be easy to make better? |
| 19:06 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55 |
| 19:16 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/513 |
| 19:16 |
rubenwardy |
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&start=90#p278256 |
| 19:19 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, maybe just fix the php script? |
| 19:20 |
RBA|Lasagne |
side note: did they measured fps with logging disabled? |
| 19:20 |
hmmmm |
probably not... |
| 19:20 |
RBA|Lasagne |
as for me, 1,8ghz, dual, 4gb i noticed almost 100% more fps |
| 19:21 |
RBA|Lasagne |
thx to disabling logs only |
| 19:21 |
hmmmm |
you were definitely cpu bound if that was the case |
| 19:21 |
RBA|Lasagne |
vanessae got about 150% |
| 19:21 |
RBA|Lasagne |
and she has phenom |
| 19:21 |
hmmmm |
yikes |
| 19:21 |
rubenwardy |
RBA|Lasagne, is that the new debug_log_level = 0 in conf? |
| 19:22 |
RBA|Lasagne |
yes |
| 19:22 |
hmmmm |
about that.. i set the default to 2 because people probably want to see errors and events like people joining their server |
| 19:22 |
RealBadAngel |
i suggested that because of speed |
| 19:22 |
hmmmm |
so disabling logging is actually something that people have to do on their own.. i think it's fine this way however |
| 19:23 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> RBA|Lasagne, is that the new debug_log_level = 0 in conf? |
| 19:23 |
rubenwardy |
does it make it faster? |
| 19:23 |
hmmmm |
it is |
| 19:23 |
hmmmm |
that's what we're talking about, yes |
| 19:23 |
RealBadAngel |
hell yeah |
| 19:23 |
RealBadAngel |
i played with 25fps before |
| 19:23 |
RealBadAngel |
now i do get over 50fps |
| 19:24 |
RealBadAngel |
and at 25fps rate i can play with maxed view range |
| 19:25 |
hmmmm |
i can play at 40fps at 350 view distance with a crappy 8400GS |
| 19:25 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:25 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: the code actually works, it didn't wokr when i tested it |
| 19:25 |
sfan5 |
you can merge the pull request now |
| 19:26 |
rubenwardy |
is 60HZ = 60FPS |
| 19:26 |
RealBadAngel |
basically yes |
| 19:27 |
rubenwardy |
everyone agree with this? http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&p=278256#p278256] |
| 19:27 |
rubenwardy |
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&p=278256#p278256 |
| 19:27 |
PilzAdam |
yep |
| 19:27 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55, hmmmm |
| 19:27 |
RealBadAngel |
60hz means 60 times a second |
| 19:27 |
hmmmm |
well, again, the reason why it would increase the FPS doesn't really have anything to do with rendering performance |
| 19:28 |
hmmmm |
and you should specify more about "small batch sizes", otherwise that looks dumb |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
this means that nodes are saved as meshes in 16x16x16 blocks |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
" ^ " |
| 19:30 |
rubenwardy |
is that correct? |
| 19:30 |
hmmmm |
small texture batch sizes |
| 19:31 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55> rubenwardy: basically mesh sizes |
| 19:31 |
rubenwardy |
are you sure? |
| 19:31 |
hmmmm |
hrm no let me reread |
| 19:31 |
rubenwardy |
19:01:47 that was |
| 19:32 |
hmmmm |
ah yeah |
| 19:32 |
sfan5 |
PilzAdam: are you going to merge the pull? |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
celeron55: are the current batch sizes a block (16x16x16 nodes) |
| 19:33 |
PilzAdam |
sfan5, I am not sure if we want to add examples in every language there |
| 19:33 |
sfan5 |
i don't think thats bad |
| 19:41 |
thexyz |
rubenwardy: looks like offtopic |
| 19:42 |
PilzAdam |
what do others think about the script from sfan5? |
| 19:42 |
rubenwardy |
huh, thexyz? |
| 19:42 |
thexyz |
you interfered in the discussion and started to spam about minetest |
| 19:42 |
thexyz |
at least, that's how it looks like to me |
| 19:43 |
rubenwardy |
not spam, seeing if they are interested in helping |
| 19:43 |
rubenwardy |
which probably is spam |
| 19:46 |
rubenwardy |
thexyz, one of the devs of build a world: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&start=75#p278228 |
| 19:46 |
thexyz |
yeah, I've already seen that one |
| 19:47 |
thexyz |
by the way, where can I download "Build A World"? |
| 19:47 |
dimeshake |
are there any example scripts out there that do something like connect to a minetest server and retrieve list of players? |
| 19:48 |
dimeshake |
looking to write something in python to connect and check status |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
it is for sale, but has not yet been released |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
dimeshake: ask redcrab |
| 19:48 |
thexyz |
oh |
| 19:48 |
dimeshake |
i've seen his player list, but i think that's done with local server access rather than via network requests |
| 19:52 |
proller |
dimeshake, for what? |
| 19:52 |
Exio |
it is me or i don't see any super-fps-boost without debug? |
| 19:53 |
dimeshake |
proller: was hoping to set up a monitor to get # of active players on a list of servers |
| 19:54 |
proller |
try http://servers.minetest.net/ |
| 19:54 |
dimeshake |
yes, i'd like to build this for myself :) |
| 19:54 |
dimeshake |
similar anyway |
| 19:55 |
thexyz |
dimeshake: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/util/master |
| 19:55 |
dimeshake |
ah excellent |
| 19:55 |
dimeshake |
thanks proller, thexyz |
| 19:57 |
proller |
you can set serverlist_url=your.server.com/master and setup script like ^^ |
| 19:59 |
dimeshake |
yep :) |
| 20:00 |
PilzAdam |
proller, is it possible to report the server state to more than one server? |
| 20:01 |
proller |
PilzAdam, now - not, need to be patched |
| 20:01 |
proller |
split serverlist_url by ',' and report to every |
| 20:02 |
proller |
but for what? |
| 20:02 |
PilzAdam |
dunno, just a random idea |
| 20:05 |
proller |
if list will contain X00+ servers maybe it will useful for fault tolerance |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: i don't understand why you had to go to talk about minetest in that thread, but your reply is wrong; the maximum FPS setting in minetest is 60, not 30 |
| 20:22 |
hmmmm |
wanted_fps is the thing that's 30 |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: i actually feel ashamed because of you doing that; we don't really have any reason whatsoever to try to get any kind of uptake or understanding from those people whatsoever |
| 20:23 |
rubenwardy |
sorry |
| 20:23 |
rubenwardy |
shall I delete the posts? |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
rubenwardy: because by their standards, minetest is horrible |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
deleting is fine to me |
| 20:24 |
hmmmm |
what they've done is pretty impressive, though, for two people and a short amount of time |
| 20:24 |
rubenwardy |
deleted |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
that post can only make an unnecessary flamewar |
| 20:25 |
rubenwardy |
very sorry, celeron55. I was just trying to support Minetest. :P |
| 20:26 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: in a coordinated full-time effort and by deciding what to not support, you can do a lot for sure |
| 20:26 |
rubenwardy |
(get more devs) |
| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
there's a pretty strong anything-must-be-written-from-scratch-in-order-to-be-good mentality within the 3d game graphics people |
| 20:33 |
celeron55 |
it basically means writing everything to drop support of quite new hardware |
| 20:33 |
celeron55 |
GPUs progress so far you can't take proper advantage of the new ones without writing things so that old ones don't really cope with it |
| 20:33 |
celeron55 |
s/far/fast/ |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
and they don't care because their and their friend's desktop has the GPU required, and everyone will have one after 10 years when their proprietary software is already completely obsolete 8) |
| 20:36 |
celeron55 |
tl;dr: people are stupid and self-righteous; you don't need to be |
| 20:41 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, ikr |
| 20:41 |
rubenwardy |
anyways, gtg |
| 20:42 |
proller |
btw, right now testing odroid x2 quad core arm, 2g ram, mali gpu = only 1-3fps |
| 20:42 |
sfan5 |
are there @minetest.net mail addresses now? |
| 20:49 |
celeron55 |
proller: sounds like something isn't working right in terms of 3d acceleration |
| 20:50 |
celeron55 |
(well, which is probably obvious) |
| 20:50 |
proller |
glmark2-es2 works and show score: 64 |
| 21:49 |
|
jin_xi joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:04 |
proller |
answer is like LIBS=-lGLESv2 -lEGL -lm -lX11 |
| 23:22 |
hmmmm |
how many fps do you get now with that? |
| 23:48 |
* VanessaE |
peeks in (saw my highlight earlier) |
