Time Nick Message 00:06 RealBadAngel hi hmmmm 00:08 RealBadAngel i was diggin the code related to meshes 00:08 RealBadAngel compability with atlas stops us 00:08 RealBadAngel even c55 said so 00:09 VanessaE hmmmm: so the question, in short, is: c55 says it's of little or no use, so do we go ahead and start ripping it out, with changed to be merged after the feature freeze 00:09 RealBadAngel for all my present and future changes atlas option shall be disabled 00:09 VanessaE s/changed/changes/ 00:09 RealBadAngel and step by step removed 00:10 RealBadAngel since core can work without it best solution to start imho is just disable it 00:11 Exio and adding a "# DEPRECATED" before it in the minetest.conf.example? ^^ 00:11 Exio until it gets removed 00:11 RealBadAngel possibly 00:12 RealBadAngel and plant a cross nearby with RIP 00:12 VanessaE lol 00:14 RealBadAngel and it deprecated for a long time already 00:14 RealBadAngel its almost impossible to play game with a few mods installed to suffer from it 00:16 RealBadAngel we can regain fps in another areas 00:16 RealBadAngel this particular one was good in minimal game 00:17 RealBadAngel and is not usable for regular users 00:21 hmmmm removing the texture atlas is huuge 00:21 hmmmm let's wait until after the feature freeze, please? 00:21 hmmmm i mean it's not the end of the world, we can make releases whenever we want 00:22 hmmmm so nevermind that, let's talk about the F10 bug 00:22 hmmmm how do i reproduce that? i need to type in a unicode character, presumably, but i have no idea how i'm going to do that 00:23 jin_xi i have applied your change and can observe that / now works better. had to press it multiple times before, but not everytime... 00:24 jin_xi i used to get an / that was highlighted and overwritten by whaterver followed 00:24 RealBadAngel hmmmm, its not huge 00:24 RealBadAngel ist a single liner almost 00:25 RealBadAngel disable the setting 00:25 RealBadAngel then clean the code in area of interest 00:27 RealBadAngel moreover, as i see in code texture atlas has been made to be 1 tile in size 00:28 RealBadAngel so when it is disabled tiles are atlases just 00:28 RealBadAngel with single texture 00:28 hmmmm alright, so your stuff works fine without the texture atlas, nobody really needs the texture atlas, so we disable it and apply your facedir stuff 00:28 hmmmm i'm taking your word for it 00:29 VanessaE hmmmm: basically, that's right. after the freeze of course. 00:29 VanessaE (though to disable by default might be appropriate now, since it acts like a bug to a lot of people) 00:30 RealBadAngel it is a bug in current state 00:30 hmmmm alright whatever.. i'll adjust the default settings a little. i'm going to do it while fixing the minetest.conf.example 00:31 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you can test the code here https://github.com/minetest/minetest 00:32 RealBadAngel and lua mod with tool to handle new facedir: http://realbadangel.pl/facedirtools.zip 00:33 RealBadAngel which i think shall be made as default for minetest game 00:34 hmmmm i'd like a lot of things to be added to minetest_game, actually, but i'm not going to be the one to actually do it 00:34 hmmmm really need to figure out who is in charge of that 00:34 RealBadAngel because it will allow to rotate everything 00:34 RealBadAngel PA 00:34 VanessaE PilzAdam seems to mostly hold the keys to that 00:35 hmmmm so do we wait for him? what about xyz? he's currently around 00:35 RealBadAngel also next of my patches will require some minetest_game changes 00:35 hmmmm i'd rather stay out of minetest_game completely 00:35 RealBadAngel i cannot 00:36 RealBadAngel im changing drawtypes 00:36 RealBadAngel also i do have many formspec changes ready 00:37 RealBadAngel like sliders, checkboxes and popup lists 00:39 RealBadAngel but those can wait, need to work at whole system a bit more 00:40 RealBadAngel no hurry, when i made background formspec folks have woke up like 3 months after and started to use it lol 00:44 RealBadAngel bbl 00:59 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7caa28a6aa50aef43d9231662ad845a4aea27e88 01:00 VanessaE hmmmm: looks good to me. 06:15 VanessaE latest build of MT segfaults at startup for me now. 06:15 VanessaE http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5572628/ 06:15 VanessaE just the client; server seems unaffected. 06:17 hmmmm can you find the exact commit where it starts doing that? 06:17 VanessaE one of the last two that were submitted yesterday. 06:18 VanessaE lemme check 06:18 VanessaE (probably 0183bd[...]) 06:19 hmmmm did you recently update irrlicht or something? 06:20 VanessaE nope. Just did a git pull to update my server at someone's request. 06:20 VanessaE I was running from the feb. 25 update before. 06:23 VanessaE *sigh* 06:23 VanessaE I'll bet some random system update broke it 06:24 hmmmm older versions not working either? 06:24 VanessaE still checking. 06:25 VanessaE went back to 979ca23[...] and still segfaulting at startup. 06:27 VanessaE lemme try rebuilding irrlicht. 06:28 hmmmm try going back to 9bd76f2972 next 06:28 VanessaE willdo 06:30 VanessaE also, as an aside: don't hard-code /usr/lib for irrlicht libs. /usr/local/lib is just as valid. 06:31 hmmmm i didn't code /usr/lib 06:31 hmmmm where is it hardcoded 06:31 VanessaE [ 98%] Building CXX object src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/game.cpp.o 06:31 VanessaE make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/libIrrlicht.a', needed by `bin/minetest'. Stop. 06:31 hmmmm why is your libirrlicht in local? 06:31 hmmmm that's only a bsd thing 06:32 VanessaE because that's where most linux builds put things if you don't specify a build prefix. 06:32 hmmmm really? mm 06:32 VanessaE yup 06:32 hmmmm well i know where to look but i'm not sure how to fix that 06:32 VanessaE so it's been my experience anyway 06:34 hmmmm gotta go to sleep, sorry 06:34 VanessaE no worries. 06:34 VanessaE I'm sure I'll get it sorted out 07:06 VanessaE yay, got it figured out. 07:06 VanessaE some system update broke my irrlicht install. All back to normal. 09:32 celeron55 hmmmm: ask calinou for changelog from 0.4.4->0.4.5, he has much of it done already afaik 14:58 RealBadAngel celeron55, are you here? 14:59 RealBadAngel and hello all 15:57 thexyz I suggest using dev wiki to make a changelog, http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog 16:30 rubenwardy celeron55, you may be interested in reading this: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&p=278208#p278228 16:40 hmmmm i heard calinou already had a changelog for 0.4.4 - 0.4.5 16:40 hmmmm calinou, care to share? 16:41 PilzAdam Calinous changelog: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/82342922/0.4.x-changelog.txt 16:41 hmmmm why does it seem like i never, ever show up in his changelogs 16:41 * Calinou found a mistake in french translation 16:42 hmmmm i mean it's not like i particularily care about e-fame, but it's just an odd thing i noticed 16:44 Calinou fixed 16:44 Calinou PilzAdam: merge latest french translation maybe (fixed "Create world" translation) 16:44 PilzAdam maybe because you do things that arent visible for the end-user? 16:45 PilzAdam Calinou, only thexyz can merge it 16:46 Calinou ok 16:48 hmmmm oh by the way pilzadam, since you're around and you're in charge of minetest_game, i think we should seriously talk about adding more content to it 16:48 hmmmm maybe not right away but there's a list of things that (i think at least) would be cool to have by default 16:48 PilzAdam can you give me the list? 16:49 hmmmm things like obsidian, water and lava mixing into stone, diamond and some other popular ores, mese swords, et cetera 16:49 hmmmm i don't actually have a *list* but i mean there's just so many things that it could make quite a list 16:50 celeron55 rubenwardy: nice graphics and stuff, but where's the source? 8) 16:50 hmmmm i'm pretty busy today and tomorrow, but i'd like to compile it into a list and maybe you could put each item as a topic to be voted on in the forums 16:50 rubenwardy celeron55: it is AAA 16:50 rubenwardy I was pointing out a specific post 16:51 celeron55 that was a rhetorical question 16:51 rubenwardy ok... 16:51 hmmmm what is AAA? 16:52 PilzAdam hmmmm, the problem is that most people will just vote "Yes" and they dont think about gameplay 16:52 hmmmm so you think we're better suited to say what actually goes into the game? 16:52 rubenwardy hmmmm: propietary game 16:53 hmmmm another proprietary minecraft...? WTF 16:53 rubenwardy like Battlefield 3 16:53 rubenwardy it is not indie 16:53 celeron55 hmmmm: rubenwardy's link; see the images or videos in it 16:53 hmmmm like by an actual game studio..? 16:53 hmmmm what game studio is this 16:53 rubenwardy not sure 16:54 rubenwardy but it is AAA aparently 16:54 celeron55 the only thing that actually surprises me in that one (Build A World it is called; let's call it BAW for short) is that it actually uses Irrlicht 16:54 hmmmm well their rendering looks nice but they will not outdo minetest in sophistication on my watch 16:54 proller +1 for water and lava mixing to stone, it must be in default_ 16:54 rubenwardy any comments on the post that is it linked to? 16:54 rubenwardy "And to whoever is making mine-test, delete the source and start from scratch..." 16:55 celeron55 i still stand on my opinion for us needing a small team to decide and design on minetest_game 16:55 hmmmm hah 16:55 celeron55 rubenwardy: minetest is useless from their point of view and that makes they say it 16:55 hmmmm wouldn't it be funny if they took minetest's source and used that 16:55 celeron55 them* 16:55 hmmmm and we wouldn't be able to prove that it's from minetest because they'd have an anti-reverse engineering clause 16:56 rubenwardy I would quite like to be part of that small team 16:56 rubenwardy but 16:56 rubenwardy I doubt I would qualify 16:57 hmmmm well BAW is clearly using 3d noise for their mapgen 16:58 celeron55 if i am to choose, that team (well, more like a pair of people) must be quite game design oriented to make it able to steer minetest in a consistent direction rather than just putting random maybe-somehow-themed stuff in it 16:58 celeron55 i don't want to choose by myself though, and i don't even have any suggestions 17:00 celeron55 if somebody feels like being up to that thing, raise your hand now and tell why we might trust you to be in that task long-term 17:00 celeron55 it doesn't even involve doing anything much; more like just selecting and polishing things, and asking people to do things 17:01 * celeron55 thinks he will never find anyone like this, and wonders if there is a viable other way 17:01 rubenwardy I could do it 17:02 thexyz AAA means you can go to store and buy the game, doesn't it? 17:02 hmmmm perhaps you don't look hard enough 17:02 rubenwardy yes 17:02 rubenwardy it is 25 euros 17:02 rubenwardy no, you do not have to go to the store 17:02 thexyz then it's not AAA enough 17:02 celeron55 rubenwardy: do you have experiene of such? it's not immediately obvious to me why you're raising your head regarding to this 17:03 celeron55 +c 17:03 rubenwardy I have made several minigames, and I have studed game design and stuff 17:03 * PilzAdam raises hand 17:04 rubenwardy It would be better if I just make a fork, and show you what I can do 17:04 celeron55 or, like... i have no idea what you would do and whether you might be capable of it, and i am wondering what you think of those 17:04 * darkrose shoots PilzAdam's hand off 17:04 * PilzAdam could code stuff 17:05 PilzAdam and Ill also like to decide wich features are added, but I have no good reason for you to trust me 17:05 PilzAdam (well, except the mods I made) 17:06 celeron55 "trust" is kind of a technical thing 17:08 rubenwardy I am raising my hand because I want to help, and I am interested in that area of development 17:10 celeron55 so do people think i should try to find out if those wishing (or willing) to steer minetest_game development/design/whatever have goals/visions/whatever that i think are sane? 17:10 rubenwardy probably 17:10 celeron55 or is this more like a "take everything you can because there are no alternatives" thing 17:11 celeron55 there is room for experimentation in upstream, but total failure would be kind of rough 8) 17:11 rubenwardy My views are that the minetest_game should stay as ready as possible (no map mod, which is only for linux) and lag free, while being "fun" and "playable" on its on 17:11 rubenwardy *own 17:12 celeron55 everybody agrees on the first ones; the key here is how to approach the last two 17:13 rubenwardy yeah, that is the problem 17:13 celeron55 and that is where some people will disagree on, which is why these people will have to have some... balls too (yes, girls can have that kind of balls) 17:15 celeron55 i find it really hard to figure out what the "spirit of minetest" really is regarding to those 17:15 hmmmm the BAW guy is pretty lame, look at this stuff in his freelance work page: "But to give you a rough idea, I charge about $4.5/£3 per 100 lines of GLSL code and $12/£8 for 100 lines of C and C++ code . This is not including constants(lookup tables) and empty lines (to give you an idea this is one complicated shader like SSAO)." 17:15 hmmmm "i charge $12 for 100 lines of code" 17:17 thexyz minetest'd cost ~10k$ 17:17 hmmmm the ex why zee is in da hoooouse 17:17 hmmmm what's up. 17:17 hmmmm hey, i was wondering if you could start issuing minetest.net email addresses, that'd be really great 17:17 celeron55 thexyz: umm... according to those prices, more like 10x that 17:18 thexyz xyz@xyz-pc ~/minetest/minetest/src $ cat *.h *.cpp util/* | wc -l 17:18 thexyz 93199 17:18 rubenwardy 93199 * 12 17:18 celeron55 ah, you're right 17:18 thexyz rubenwardy: / 100 17:19 PilzAdam https://www.ohloh.net/p/minetest-c55/analyses/latest/languages_summary 17:19 rubenwardy damn 17:19 celeron55 hmmmm: i don't know what that technically requires 17:19 thexyz PilzAdam: sqlite3.c/h is 135147 lines 17:21 celeron55 crap, the exluded files list has disappeared 17:21 celeron55 it can be set here: https://www.ohloh.net/p/minetest-c55/enlistments 17:22 celeron55 hmmmm: the minetest.net domain is owned and paid by a russian gal nicknamed bookwar, and dns is done by freedns.afraid.org, and servers under (*.)minetest.net are hosted by pretty much anyone 17:22 hmmmm oh.. i thought xyz does all that stuff? 17:23 thexyz i only host forums 17:23 thexyz and dev wiki 17:23 celeron55 and dev wiki 8) 17:23 PilzAdam celeron55, the ignore list is at the minetest_game location... 17:23 thexyz and probably something more 17:23 thexyz like http://servers.minetest.net/ 17:23 hmmmm hmmm 17:23 hmmmm well i dunno, i just thought the @minetest.net email addresses would be pretty cool since it'd add to the professionalism 17:24 * celeron55 wonders how many people actually know the internet mail standard 17:32 darkrose 42 17:34 celeron55 oh goooood 17:34 * celeron55 is looking for a simple thing about a part of a value in a DNS field, and even the wikipedia article about the field, being multiple pages long, doesn't say it 17:35 darkrose what thing in what field? 17:36 celeron55 minetest.net currently has an MX record with the value 10:mail.c55.me 17:36 celeron55 and my question is: what the fuck is "10:" 17:37 thexyz priority? 17:37 thexyz >MX records are in the format of PRI:ADDRESS. Where PRI is the MX priority, and ADDRESS is the hostname of the mail server (Not IP!) 17:38 celeron55 where did you get that 17:38 thexyz try to add MX record @ freedns.afraid.org 17:38 celeron55 wat? 17:40 celeron55 if i click the "explanation" link on freedns.afraid.org, it tells me nothing about such 17:41 celeron55 which is just plain utterly ridiculous 17:41 celeron55 so as does not wikipedia 17:41 thexyz no, click "Save!" button without filling anything in (except changing "Type" to "MX") 17:41 thexyz user friendly! 17:41 celeron55 ... 17:42 celeron55 okay so anyway 17:43 celeron55 if i add an MX record here with a "subdomain", it will actually end up redirecting that mail address to the smtp server filled in as destination 17:43 celeron55 i... think 17:43 celeron55 so who wants to try? 17:43 celeron55 i think this has high odds of failing due to some kind of spam policies 17:45 celeron55 hmmmm: tell me your e-mail address and your preferred minetest.net e-mail address 17:45 hmmmm mirrorisim@gmail.com, kwolekr@minetest.net 17:46 thexyz are you going to use your own mail server? 17:47 celeron55 hmmmm: you need to at least add that address to gmail's allowed addresses 17:47 hmmmm ok 17:48 hmmmm hrmm how do i do that 17:48 hmmmm import mail and contacts? 17:48 hmmmm add a pop3 mail account you own? 17:49 celeron55 no, lol 17:49 celeron55 also, me: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31450812.jpg 17:49 hmmmm that's the way sysadmining is always like unless you've done it a couple times before 17:49 celeron55 hmmmm: "accounts and import" 17:50 hmmmm but it's usually something that you do once and not again for quite a while 17:50 celeron55 hmm... actually 17:50 hmmmm i am looking at accounts and import 17:50 celeron55 there is "Send mail as:", which is what i was thinking, but now i'm not actually exactly sure if it is needed for this kind of thing 17:51 hmmmm hmmmm 17:51 celeron55 s/i'm not actually exactly sure/i have no goddamn idea/ 17:51 hmmmm if the account is set up already, i'd just need the login details to access it from an email client 17:52 hmmmm i'd use thunderbird or pine 17:52 hmmmm pine, lol 17:52 hmmmm the bit about pine was a joke 17:52 celeron55 actually, i think this does not work this way 17:53 celeron55 i need an actual mail server to take in SMTP 17:53 thexyz why not just use gmail or something like that? 17:53 celeron55 and to forward it 17:54 celeron55 c55.me is incapable of hosting SMTP because it's a consumer ADSL that blocks SMTP to all directions 17:54 celeron55 8) 18:01 rubenwardy celeron55: have you seen this? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_php/pull/1#issuecomment-14125836 18:03 celeron55 thexyz: are you able to provide an smtp server? 18:04 thexyz I've never configured a smtp server 18:04 thexyz I'm also not sure why don't you want to use some hosted alternative 18:05 celeron55 rubenwardy: remove the .gitignore modification and squash it to two commits, 1) header/footer fix, 2) content fixes 18:05 celeron55 then it should be prefect-ish 8) 18:06 celeron55 thexyz: i don't want to use anything and have no idea of what i am doing; ask hmmmm :P 18:07 thexyz celeron55: well, I use yandex mail for my domains, works flawlessly 18:07 hmmmm nevermind on that whole idea, i guess. i didn't expect it to be as difficult as it turned out to be 18:08 hmmmm probably not worth the effort 18:08 thexyz celeron55: should be easy to setup, has web-interface, pop3 & imap 18:08 celeron55 but how would you get a foo@minetest.net to go to there? 18:09 celeron55 that is the question 18:09 thexyz celeron55: you have to add MX record pointing to mx.yandex.ru. 18:10 celeron55 that means all @minetest.net mail is going to go to yandex? 18:10 thexyz yes 18:10 celeron55 that's not something i am willing to do 18:10 thexyz why? 18:12 celeron55 i think the questions is more like "why would i" 18:12 celeron55 -s 18:13 thexyz fine 18:13 thexyz well, you asked for mail server 18:13 thexyz that's why i suggested it 18:14 thexyz now you ask >why would i 18:15 celeron55 well i guess if more people think they would use it, then maybe 18:15 * sfan5 would use *@minetest.net mail 18:15 celeron55 ...at yandex? 18:15 sfan5 no 18:15 rubenwardy celeron55: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.net_php/pull/2 18:15 hmmmm spandex 18:15 celeron55 does yandex differ from gmail in that sense? (not that i really would want that either) 18:16 sfan5 also *@dev.minetest.net for people involved in development with minetest 18:16 thexyz what's the problem with yandex? it's not like their IMAP differs from some other IMAP 18:17 * sfan5 corrects his answer: s/no/maybe/ 18:17 thexyz also, it seems google does not provide free google apps anymore 18:18 sfan5 it doesn't? 18:18 hmmmm well the idea was that minetest.net email addresses were for people involved with development, why would you give out email addresses to regular end users exactly? 18:18 hmmmm like @xfce.org for example, they don't have @dev.xfce.org 18:19 sfan5 that makes sense 18:21 sfan5 GIT: minetest-services commited to minetest/minetest: <-- what? 18:21 celeron55 thexyz: how do you make a yandex account to correctly eat @minetest.net mail? 18:21 celeron55 i think in a normal situation such would be considered simply spam, and gmail doesn't seem to have a way to enable such 18:23 sfan5 s/what?/who is minetest-services?/ 18:23 thexyz celeron55: you confirm domain (by uploading html file to web root), then add MX records, then add accounts, then receive/send mail 18:24 celeron55 what happens if yandex already has an account called "asdf" and somebody wants to have asdf@minetest.net 18:24 thexyz yandex has an account called asdf, but asdf@minetest.net is a different one 18:24 darkrose not connected, account names are per-domain 18:25 thexyz sfan5: weblate 18:25 sfan5 oh,ok 18:25 celeron55 so asdf and asdf@minetest.net are usernames? 18:25 thexyz >account names are per-domain 18:25 thexyz after confirming domain you may add accounts for it 18:26 thexyz limit is 1000 mailboxes, iirc 18:26 thexyz then you can login to it either via IMAP or by using web-interface (i.e. http://mail.yandex.ru/for/minetest.ru) 18:27 sfan5 why not host our own mailserver? 18:27 celeron55 so the domain owner specifies what addresses under his domain belong to what yandex accounts? 18:27 thexyz sfan5: why should we do that? 18:27 thexyz celeron55: aww, you totally don't get it 18:28 celeron55 i have tried to get it in multiple ways already 18:28 thexyz celeron55: you create accounts specifying name@minetest.net & password, then users login via IMAP or from http://mail.yandex.ru/for/minetest.net 18:28 sfan5 technically you can't trust anyone, so you can't trust yandex.ru 18:28 thexyz they don't need to have yandex account 18:28 rubenwardy|away byb 18:29 thexyz sfan5: of course you cannot 18:29 celeron55 ehm... well then, who is going to manage this? 18:29 thexyz you? me? 18:29 thexyz both of us? 18:29 celeron55 interesting fact: if the addresses were foo@dev.minetest.net, thexyz could do everything right away 18:29 sfan5 the language yandex.ru is perfectly readable 18:30 sfan5 +uses 18:30 thexyz sfan5: it is 18:30 sfan5 you are russian, you can read it 18:30 thexyz but I have never used any other mail provider with an option to add your own domain 18:30 sfan5 <sfan5> why not host our own mailserver? 18:30 thexyz sfan5: who would do that? 18:30 sfan5 ^ i gave you an argument for that 18:31 sfan5 you? (maybe) 18:31 thexyz I won't 18:31 thexyz I'm not that experienced 18:31 thexyz and mail server should have →100% uptime 18:31 thexyz (i believe) 18:31 * sfan5 agrees in that point 18:32 sfan5 but don't need to be experienced, you could try hosting a mail server to see if it works fine (~100% uptime,etc.) 18:32 sfan5 *very experienced 18:32 celeron55 isn't yandex.com same as yandex.ru? 18:32 celeron55 except for the language 18:32 thexyz it is 18:35 celeron55 well, do whatever you wish, i'm not going to care (and can set the mail of minetest.net to go to yandex if people end up at that) 18:35 celeron55 i was going to try to get the minetest_game stuff further today but now my head hurts so much i'll just go hide again -> 18:35 hmmmm those build-a-world guys really slammed minetest on the irrlicht forums about the framerate 18:36 thexyz ok 18:36 hmmmm it's like the only thing they're concerned about is the graphics rendering and effects 18:37 sfan5 yeah 18:37 hmmmm but, seriously, why does minetest get such bad framerates? what are others doing that is so much more optimal? 18:37 celeron55 <- 18:37 celeron55 of course it is all they care 18:37 celeron55 irrlicht is solely a 3d graphics library 18:37 celeron55 (well, mostly) 18:38 PilzAdam re: minetest_game: I have a farming branch hanging arround but the only texture I have for them are from RBA and he stole them from MC 18:39 sfan5 thats like complaining about other programs framerates because the use OpenGL too 18:41 celeron55 hmmmm: i don't even know, because i don't even care; but at default settings minetest will never do more than 60 because it caps it at that, and some people expect it to run freely because FPS FPS YAY FPS 18:41 hmmmm i have fps_wanted set to 30 actually 18:41 hmmmm i can't notice a difference below that, and i just like having more cpu time for other things 18:42 celeron55 but as far as i know, minetest performs relatively poorly on high-end GPUs because of small batch sizes (so to say) 18:43 hmmmm hahah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3GkkSv2uVU - the video comment - "Yes, anything will crash down in Build A World... just like the real world" - very realistic - you can hold a tower up with a single 1 cubic meter block 18:43 celeron55 just add an extra step to combine mapblcok meshes (like 2x2x2 to 1, or even 3x3x3 to 1) and set those to be buffered on the GPU side (because then that buffering will actually matter; now it would do nothing) 18:44 celeron55 and then you have way more performance 18:44 celeron55 mapblock* 18:44 hmmmm the texture atlas 18:44 hmmmm right now doesn't it only do 1x1 node tiles 18:45 celeron55 no? it contains tiled textures 18:46 hmmmm sorta thought that was done already 18:46 hmmmm hrmm perhaps the graphics need a bit more attention 18:46 celeron55 there isn't much to be gained in this 18:46 celeron55 i mean, via tiling or atlasing 18:47 celeron55 tiling is surprisingly ineffective, you don't generally get even 50% gains with it, and like exactly 50% with a perfect 2d tiling algorithm 18:49 celeron55 minetest gets like 10-30% with non-smooth lighting and 5-10% with smooth lighting (because it's done at the vertex level) 18:52 celeron55 on a modern GPU that means absolutely nothing, because batch sizes are so small; on a 2005 laptop that does do a bit of good 18:53 celeron55 i have nothing to support keeping the texture atlas anymore, but such should be tried to be found, and if it is not, then it should be removed 18:54 rubenwardy what is the default wanted_fps value? 18:54 PilzAdam 30 18:56 sfan5 celeron55: where is the code that caps fps to 60? 18:57 rubenwardy in conf 18:57 rubenwardy wanted_fps? 18:57 sfan5 i set that to 1000 18:57 PilzAdam fps_max limits the fps 18:57 PilzAdam its 60 by default 18:57 sfan5 i set that to 1500 18:59 rubenwardy What are batch sizes? 19:00 celeron55 the fps tuner works so that it actively tries to adjust the rendering range so that it runs at wanted_fps, and if raising the range doesn't lower the fps to max_fps, it will sleep so that it runs at max_fps 19:01 celeron55 rising* 19:01 celeron55 rubenwardy: basically mesh sizes 19:02 rubenwardy a ha. Would it be easy to make better? 19:06 rubenwardy celeron55 19:16 sfan5 PilzAdam: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/513 19:16 rubenwardy http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&start=90#p278256 19:19 PilzAdam sfan5, maybe just fix the php script? 19:20 RBA|Lasagne side note: did they measured fps with logging disabled? 19:20 hmmmm probably not... 19:20 RBA|Lasagne as for me, 1,8ghz, dual, 4gb i noticed almost 100% more fps 19:21 RBA|Lasagne thx to disabling logs only 19:21 hmmmm you were definitely cpu bound if that was the case 19:21 RBA|Lasagne vanessae got about 150% 19:21 RBA|Lasagne and she has phenom 19:21 hmmmm yikes 19:21 rubenwardy RBA|Lasagne, is that the new debug_log_level = 0 in conf? 19:22 RBA|Lasagne yes 19:22 hmmmm about that.. i set the default to 2 because people probably want to see errors and events like people joining their server 19:22 RealBadAngel i suggested that because of speed 19:22 hmmmm so disabling logging is actually something that people have to do on their own.. i think it's fine this way however 19:23 rubenwardy RBA|Lasagne, is that the new debug_log_level = 0 in conf? 19:23 rubenwardy does it make it faster? 19:23 hmmmm it is 19:23 hmmmm that's what we're talking about, yes 19:23 RealBadAngel hell yeah 19:23 RealBadAngel i played with 25fps before 19:23 RealBadAngel now i do get over 50fps 19:24 RealBadAngel and at 25fps rate i can play with maxed view range 19:25 hmmmm i can play at 40fps at 350 view distance with a crappy 8400GS 19:25 sfan5 PilzAdam: the code actually works, it didn't wokr when i tested it 19:25 sfan5 you can merge the pull request now 19:26 rubenwardy is 60HZ = 60FPS 19:26 RealBadAngel basically yes 19:27 rubenwardy everyone agree with this? http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&p=278256#p278256] 19:27 rubenwardy http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&p=278256#p278256 19:27 PilzAdam yep 19:27 rubenwardy celeron55, hmmmm 19:27 RealBadAngel 60hz means 60 times a second 19:27 hmmmm well, again, the reason why it would increase the FPS doesn't really have anything to do with rendering performance 19:28 hmmmm and you should specify more about "small batch sizes", otherwise that looks dumb 19:29 rubenwardy this means that nodes are saved as meshes in 16x16x16 blocks 19:29 rubenwardy " ^ " 19:30 rubenwardy is that correct? 19:30 hmmmm small texture batch sizes 19:31 rubenwardy celeron55> rubenwardy: basically mesh sizes 19:31 rubenwardy are you sure? 19:31 hmmmm hrm no let me reread 19:31 rubenwardy 19:01:47 that was 19:32 hmmmm ah yeah 19:32 sfan5 PilzAdam: are you going to merge the pull? 19:32 rubenwardy celeron55: are the current batch sizes a block (16x16x16 nodes) 19:33 PilzAdam sfan5, I am not sure if we want to add examples in every language there 19:33 sfan5 i don't think thats bad 19:41 thexyz rubenwardy: looks like offtopic 19:42 PilzAdam what do others think about the script from sfan5? 19:42 rubenwardy huh, thexyz? 19:42 thexyz you interfered in the discussion and started to spam about minetest 19:42 thexyz at least, that's how it looks like to me 19:43 rubenwardy not spam, seeing if they are interested in helping 19:43 rubenwardy which probably is spam 19:46 rubenwardy thexyz, one of the devs of build a world: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&start=75#p278228 19:46 thexyz yeah, I've already seen that one 19:47 thexyz by the way, where can I download "Build A World"? 19:47 dimeshake are there any example scripts out there that do something like connect to a minetest server and retrieve list of players? 19:48 dimeshake looking to write something in python to connect and check status 19:48 rubenwardy it is for sale, but has not yet been released 19:48 rubenwardy dimeshake: ask redcrab 19:48 thexyz oh 19:48 dimeshake i've seen his player list, but i think that's done with local server access rather than via network requests 19:52 proller dimeshake, for what? 19:52 Exio it is me or i don't see any super-fps-boost without debug? 19:53 dimeshake proller: was hoping to set up a monitor to get # of active players on a list of servers 19:54 proller try http://servers.minetest.net/ 19:54 dimeshake yes, i'd like to build this for myself :) 19:54 dimeshake similar anyway 19:55 thexyz dimeshake: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/util/master 19:55 dimeshake ah excellent 19:55 dimeshake thanks proller, thexyz 19:57 proller you can set serverlist_url=your.server.com/master and setup script like ^^ 19:59 dimeshake yep :) 20:00 PilzAdam proller, is it possible to report the server state to more than one server? 20:01 proller PilzAdam, now - not, need to be patched 20:01 proller split serverlist_url by ',' and report to every 20:02 proller but for what? 20:02 PilzAdam dunno, just a random idea 20:05 proller if list will contain X00+ servers maybe it will useful for fault tolerance 20:21 celeron55 rubenwardy: i don't understand why you had to go to talk about minetest in that thread, but your reply is wrong; the maximum FPS setting in minetest is 60, not 30 20:22 hmmmm wanted_fps is the thing that's 30 20:23 celeron55 rubenwardy: i actually feel ashamed because of you doing that; we don't really have any reason whatsoever to try to get any kind of uptake or understanding from those people whatsoever 20:23 rubenwardy sorry 20:23 rubenwardy shall I delete the posts? 20:23 celeron55 rubenwardy: because by their standards, minetest is horrible 20:24 celeron55 deleting is fine to me 20:24 hmmmm what they've done is pretty impressive, though, for two people and a short amount of time 20:24 rubenwardy deleted 20:24 celeron55 that post can only make an unnecessary flamewar 20:25 rubenwardy very sorry, celeron55. I was just trying to support Minetest. :P 20:26 celeron55 hmmmm: in a coordinated full-time effort and by deciding what to not support, you can do a lot for sure 20:26 rubenwardy (get more devs) 20:32 celeron55 there's a pretty strong anything-must-be-written-from-scratch-in-order-to-be-good mentality within the 3d game graphics people 20:33 celeron55 it basically means writing everything to drop support of quite new hardware 20:33 celeron55 GPUs progress so far you can't take proper advantage of the new ones without writing things so that old ones don't really cope with it 20:33 celeron55 s/far/fast/ 20:35 celeron55 and they don't care because their and their friend's desktop has the GPU required, and everyone will have one after 10 years when their proprietary software is already completely obsolete 8) 20:36 celeron55 tl;dr: people are stupid and self-righteous; you don't need to be 20:41 rubenwardy yeah, ikr 20:41 rubenwardy anyways, gtg 20:42 proller btw, right now testing odroid x2 quad core arm, 2g ram, mali gpu = only 1-3fps 20:42 sfan5 are there @minetest.net mail addresses now? 20:49 celeron55 proller: sounds like something isn't working right in terms of 3d acceleration 20:50 celeron55 (well, which is probably obvious) 20:50 proller glmark2-es2 works and show score: 64 23:04 proller answer is like LIBS=-lGLESv2 -lEGL -lm -lX11 23:22 hmmmm how many fps do you get now with that? 23:48 * VanessaE peeks in (saw my highlight earlier)