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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-02-12

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Time Nick Message
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01:11 doserj rarkenin: reliable can be wrapped around split packages
01:11 doserj split packages just contain data, not other packages
01:12 doserj For your other question. undersurface is the node that is punched, abovesurface is where you would place a node
01:20 rarkenin So, reliable around control, original, and split. Split around raw data. '
01:21 rarkenin And is split's seqnum related to the seqnums of the packets the chunks are in?
01:30 doserj the seqnum for split packets has nothing to do with the seqnum for reliable packets
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14:40 Taoki A heads-up: I fixed veryical speed and acceleration in my physics branch, since I finally discovered what was breaking them. Feel free to test my code more if needed (it should be fine now) and pull upstream. https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/483
15:00 darkrose works for me, just added the change to upstream/movement branch
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15:39 Taoki darkrose: ok. Just finished doing one more commit a minute ago, check that as well please
15:44 VanessaE Taoki: your latest is now on my server.
15:44 VanessaE (including the commit you just mentioned)
15:44 VanessaE if you wish to test it further I mean
15:46 VanessaE uh oh.
15:46 VanessaE can't fly upwards.
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15:47 VanessaE unless I jump first and try to take off while in mid-air, then up/down works as expected.
15:51 VanessaE or, toggle noclip on and then back off while trying to fly from a standing position, that works too.
15:57 F00 Someone mind testing a tiny patch for me? http://pastie.org/6133333
15:57 VanessaE what does it do?
15:57 F00 All it does is enabled wrapping in the already-five-line guitext_info box (Should look like so: http://i.imgur.com/yFzwJIK.png )
15:58 F00 I can't imagine why it wouldn't work, but I had someone say it didn't.
15:58 VanessaE ah
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16:57 proller Taoki, maybe add to your patch moving in flowing liquids ?
16:58 proller when liquid push player to flowing direction
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17:22 * F00 tries again.
17:22 F00 Anyone have a minute to test a one-line text wrap patch (for signs, etc.)? http://pastie.org/6133333
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17:55 F00 ShadowNinja: My current iteration just uses the wrap bool to addStaticText, works fine for me on Irrlicht 1.8 and 1.7.3
17:55 F00 Haven't been able to get anybody else to test yet.
17:56 ShadowNinja I can't get it to work with the same implimentation
17:56 F00 But I can't see why that would be unset unless you have an actual, explicit disabling of wrap elsewhere
17:56 F00 git diff src/game.cpp is identical to this? http://pastie.org/6133333
17:57 ShadowNinja It is only referenced three times in game.cpp, adding it, seting it, and making it visible, and yes
17:58 F00 Neither setText nor setVisible have args that might impact wrapping, so that's utterly bizarre
17:58 ShadowNinja I tried it with 1.7 and 1.8
17:58 F00 Oh. Your guitext_info rect is 400px wide, text_height*5+5 tall, right?
17:58 ShadowNinja yes
17:58 F00 This makes no sense, then.
17:59 F00 Need a third person to give it a try to see if you're the anomaly or if I am.
18:01 F00 You're making sure to run ./bin/minetest from your git checkout, right?
18:01 ShadowNinja yes, I just did a reset --hard HEAD to try again
18:02 F00 What happens in-game for you? Long signs just run off the end of the first line like before?
18:02 F00 With a partially-clipped letter visible or whatnot?
18:02 ShadowNinja yes
18:03 ShadowNinja reset did nothing
18:05 F00 Just for kicks, does changing the sole guitext_info->setText to be guitext_info->setText((L"AAA"+infotext).c_str()); actually prepend your signs with AAA?
18:08 ShadowNinja it doesn't compile
18:08 ShadowNinja L"AAA"+infotext.c_str()
18:08 ShadowNinja gtg bbl
18:09 F00 There's a paren around that
18:19 Taoki Back
18:20 Taoki PilzAdam: When you have time to look at pull requests again, please check https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/483 and if there aren't any problems pull it upstream. I did the last checks and changes today and it should be as ready as it can be
18:21 PilzAdam Taoki, random thoughts about your branch:
18:21 PilzAdam - the sinking speed in liquids is way too slow
18:21 PilzAdam - the movement speed in liquids should depend on the viscosity
18:22 PilzAdam - the sliding effect after fast move is too high/long
18:22 PilzAdam - disable the normal sneaking when in liquids, shift should be used only for sinking when in liquids
18:23 Taoki Sliding effect after using fast cannot be helped. It's due to the acceleration / deceleration, and I see no way around it. I hope this one can be let to slip... the rest I can look into
18:23 PilzAdam - climbing on ladders is too fast
18:23 Taoki Climbing / decendiing uses walk speed, but I can change that and make it slower
18:23 PilzAdam maybe higher deceleration when the player is faster than max walk velocity?
18:23 Taoki Also, I'm not aware of different liquids supporting different levels of viscosity yet. That will probably need to be a separate feature later
18:24 Taoki Not sure how and if to do that. For now I'd leave it as is if that's ok
18:24 Taoki But the rest I can try to take care of
18:25 PilzAdam echo "Speed depending on liquid viscosity \n pushing of player/objects through flowing liquid" >> Taoki/TODO.txt
18:25 Taoki PilzAdam: Except movement depending on viscosity because different liquid nodes don't support viscosities yet. That will be a different feature
18:25 Taoki yes, I will add a comment for it
18:25 PilzAdam ehm... https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1457
18:28 Taoki Oh... there is a liquid_viscosity tag I see. But it didn't seem to do anything until now
18:28 PilzAdam it controls the flowing speed
18:28 Taoki If I'll be able to read its value where liquid friction is applied (in environment.cpp) I can easily account it then. Can't promise however
18:28 Taoki Oh, ok
18:28 Taoki Then I'll do it if I can read it in environment.cpp. But that I can't promise... will try still
18:32 F00 Would either of you mind testing my patch quickly? I'd like to see the next release have proper multi-line sign support.
18:34 Taoki Sorry, on my GIT branch and working on it. Can't tonight at least
18:34 Taoki PilzAdam: Bt "the sinking speed in liquids is way too slow", did you mean the speed by which you move in water (and sink with Shift), or the ambiental sinking when you stand still?
18:35 Taoki If it's the first, going up and down uses the same veolocity as moving horizontally
18:35 PilzAdam its when you standing still
18:35 PilzAdam s/standing/swimming
18:35 Taoki Ok. That one's meant to be slow, but if you wish I'll make it a little faster by default
18:37 Taoki Yeah... liquid_viscosity is only used around nodedef and map.cpp. I can't think of any good way to parse that to the client where physics are applied. So if that's ok I'm skipping that one but will add a TODO... it can be done later
18:38 PilzAdam Taoki, how is the bool in_liquid (or similiar) passed to this?
18:39 PilzAdam F00, done
18:39 Taoki erm... *looks*
18:39 Taoki Interesting... localplayer gets it from the nodemanager. That seems like I might be able to do it then :)
18:39 Taoki in_water = nodemgr->get(map.getNode(pp).getContent()).isLiquid();
18:40 PilzAdam nodemgr->get(map.getNode(pp).getContent()).liquid_viscosity
18:41 Taoki Thanks, setting up the function and will try to compile that
18:41 F00 PilzAdam: Wrapping works for you?
18:41 PilzAdam F00, yea, I have pushed it upstream
18:41 Taoki PilzAdam: Also, does crouching underwater really happen? Looking at the code, that doesn't seem like it should
18:42 F00 I'm puzzled as to why it doesn't for ShadowNinja. I'm suspecting he's somehow not running the binary he's built.
18:42 F00 Anyhow, thanks.
18:42 PilzAdam how can this not work for anyone?
18:43 F00 That's my thought.
18:43 PilzAdam Taoki, yep, it does happen
18:43 PilzAdam just checked
18:43 Taoki ok. What happens in that case? The speed gets lower?
18:43 PilzAdam you dont sink anyomre
18:44 PilzAdam try it yourseld: walk on the ground of a sea and hold shift
18:44 Taoki Sneak key is meant to sink. When you hit a node you don't sink so you don't go through it
18:44 Taoki yeah, but you don't sink cuz you touch the ground
18:45 PilzAdam yea, but it blocks you even if you over the edge
18:45 PilzAdam like normal sneaking
18:45 Taoki Ahhh, you mean falling off nodes?
18:46 PilzAdam localplayer.cpp:162 add && !in_water
18:47 Taoki thanks, trying to get viscosity read then I'll fix that too
18:50 Taoki Ok this is weird. If I add anything in nodedef.h under "struct ContentFeatures" the file rollbackinterface.cpp fails to compile
18:51 PilzAdam why would you add anything to ContentFeatures?
18:52 Taoki PilzAdam: Look in nodedef.h line 245 for example (bool isLiquid() const{ ) - I need to add a function there to read viscisoty
18:52 Taoki Otherwise using liquid_viscosity like you suggested says that word isn't defined
18:52 Taoki nodemgr->get(map.getNode(pp).getContent()).liquid_viscosity
18:54 Taoki At least that's what it seems like to me, but isLiquid() is defined there (which is what environment.cpp uses to know the player is in water)
18:54 PilzAdam it works for me
18:55 Taoki Using "nodemgr->get(map.getNode(pp).getContent()).liquidViscosity" compiles for you?
18:55 Taoki erm,
18:55 Taoki nodemgr->get(map.getNode(pp).getContent()).liquid_viscosity
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18:57 Taoki PilzAdam: I get this ---- error: ‘water_viscosity’ was not declared in this scope
18:57 Taoki For the line water_viscosity = nodemgr->get(map.getNode(pp).getContent()).liquidViscosity;
18:57 PilzAdam its "liquid", not "water"
18:57 Taoki oh
18:58 PilzAdam https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/4772323
18:58 Taoki Thanks, will use that as a guide
18:59 PilzAdam oops, m_liquid_viscosity should be u8, not bool
18:59 Taoki I was using float
19:00 Taoki Is viscosity an integer or can it have decimals?
19:00 PilzAdam its u8
19:00 PilzAdam lua_api.txt says max = 7
19:01 Taoki Can I replace in_water and in_water_stable with in_liquid and in_liquid_stable for consistency?
19:01 PilzAdam why not?
19:02 PilzAdam "liquid" and "water" is mixed up everywhere in the code:-)
19:02 Taoki Yes, that's part of what was confusing
19:04 PilzAdam the engine doesnt really know if a liquid is water or not, since water is define in Lua
19:04 PilzAdam so you can see "water" in the core code as "liquid"
19:07 Taoki Weird, for water I seem to get a null value for viscosity
19:08 Taoki I'm trying to print it in errorstream to check its value, but it doesn't print anything, not even 0. I wonder if in minetest_game water doesn't have viscosity set
19:08 PilzAdam every liquid needs a viscosity != 0
19:09 PilzAdam otherwise it wouldnt flow
19:09 * PilzAdam tested everything in the Lua API :-)
19:12 Taoki I've no idea why my test shows 0 x.x
19:12 Taoki errorstream<<"!!!! "<<lplayer->liquid_viscosity<<std::endl;
19:12 Taoki I only see the "!!!! ". And yes, I use this method commonly to check values, other floats show
19:12 Taoki This is the first time it prints nothing, like the value is null
19:16 * Taoki shrugs. Since the printing is the problem, and this value just doesn't want to show. I wonder what the value for water viscosity is in that case...
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19:19 PilzAdam where do you do this?
19:20 Taoki environment.cpp, where water resistence is applied. I read lplayer->liquid_viscosity there
19:20 Taoki I think it sees 0 in water for some reason :/
19:20 PilzAdam well, first its m_liquid_viscosity, 2nd: its private
19:20 PilzAdam you cant read it outside of localplayer.{cpp, h}
19:21 Taoki But I declared it exactly like in_water and in_water_stable, and those can be read there
19:21 PilzAdam can you show me the diff?
19:22 Taoki Compared to the last revision in my branch? I'll try to generate one
19:22 PilzAdam (if you havent used git add you can just do git diff without params to get the unstaged changes)
19:23 sfan5 i'm still waiting for this( https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/458 ) to be merged
19:23 Taoki PilzAdam: Think I got it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0ZZKiiH7
19:26 Taoki Let me know if you can tell what's wrong in that diff
19:29 PilzAdam sfan5, done
19:29 sfan5 thanks, i can build minetestserver.exe on win now :)
19:30 PilzAdam Taoki, the reading isnt in the diff
19:30 PilzAdam (the errorstream line)
19:31 Taoki PilzAdam: I removed that, it wouldn't print any values for some reason. The line of interest now is d_wanted /= lplayer->liquid_viscosity;
19:32 Taoki For some reason that seems to attempt a division to 0 when in water
19:34 Taoki Actually it works. I messed around with water viscosity and it changed the water friction. Sweet :D
19:34 Taoki Need to use it the other way around though
19:34 Taoki The other things will be easy
19:34 PilzAdam finding bugs which dont exist is hard work :-)
19:35 Taoki Yeah, my bad there. Coding can get so complex even when you expect it's an easy task
19:36 PilzAdam btw: you use "water" instead of "liquid" in the comment about liquid_viscosity
19:38 PilzAdam strange, it seems to work the other way round
19:38 Taoki oh
19:38 PilzAdam now Im faster in lava
19:38 Taoki Yes, I'm changing that. The higher the viscosity value the slower you must be
19:39 Taoki So you need to multiply friction with it. But since that would be too slow, I'm making another value to decide how much viscosity affects friction
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19:43 PilzAdam ummm.... when I stand still and turn fly mode on I cant move upwards
19:44 PilzAdam it only works with velocity.Y != 0
19:44 Taoki You should be able to with jump. I don't have that problem here
19:44 PilzAdam that needs to be fixed
19:44 PilzAdam VanessaE reported something similiar IIRC
19:44 Taoki I don't get that problem so I can't test it
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19:46 Taoki When and how does it happen exactly?
19:46 PilzAdam if I switch to fly mode with no vertical velocity
19:47 PilzAdam (I have shift = descend and always_fly_fast = false)
19:48 Taoki Ok, will have to test that too
19:59 F00 Something I was wondering about
19:59 F00 Why are chunks stored when generated?
19:59 Taoki PilzAdam: Also, is it correct that I'm using writeF1000 to network the settings, considering they can all have decimals? Or is there a smaller way to network floats
19:59 PilzAdam they are called blocks or mapblocks in Minetest
19:59 PilzAdam chunk is Minecrafts name for it
19:59 F00 If somebody's just passing through and makes no changes, why not discard the generated data?
20:00 PilzAdam Taoki, I dont know much about networking
20:00 F00 By chunk I mean 16^3 blocks. AFAIK 'chunk' is used in lots of engine nomenclature?
20:00 Taoki ok, will leave it like that then
20:00 PilzAdam F00, http://dev.minetest.net/Terminology
20:01 PilzAdam Taoki, better ask celeron55 or so, changing this later could break compatibility
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20:02 hmmmm floats are fine
20:02 F00 Anyhow, as to the substance of my question? :p
20:02 hmmmm map blocks are stored because generating them is rather slow
20:02 F00 It seems like it's a worthwhile trade-off to regenerate them in most cases.
20:03 F00 I was on Redcrab the other day and he must have a modification of some sort. Sent an automated notice about the map hitting 9 GB.
20:03 F00 Also, the storing of generated chunks has ruined my plans a bit.
20:03 hmmmm ....'plans'..?
20:04 F00 I wrote a little util that reimplements the Lua mapgen's nyan cat function as well as the engine-side PRNG for blockseed, etc.
20:05 F00 It lets me find Nyan cats, but only in areas generated by current mapgen
20:05 hmmmm you already have access to the core's PRNG through PseudoRandom()
20:06 F00 This is just a little hacky third-party util. Doesn't actually interface with Minetest at all.
20:08 F00 Anyhow, the "issue" is that people tend to wander randomly. So, an old map run on a current server will mostly have old-mapgen stuff near the surface, even if unmodified
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20:10 F00 But on a non-cheaty level, I think it'd be useful to have save vs regenerate on demand be an option - I'm sure most public server operators would choose momentary CPU usage over continuous map bloat
20:10 hmmmm doing that would be an incredibly huge change to minetest
20:13 Taoki I wonder if f32 holds floats or just integers
20:13 Taoki Anyone know?
20:13 hmmmm why would you think it holds just integers?
20:15 Taoki No specific reason, just being sure :)
20:15 F00 How so? Are blocks not usually kept in memory or something?
20:15 hmmmm why can't you just look at where f32 is defined?
20:16 Taoki Not good at those things heh
20:16 Taoki But if it holds decimals I'll use that to network the settings
20:17 * VanessaE pokes Taoki ... just because.
20:17 hmmmm you might really want to get good at those things
20:17 Taoki hi :)
20:17 Taoki hmmmm: For now, can I ask if it's certain it holds decimals?
20:18 hmmmm no, you must look it up on your own
20:20 F00 Not being familiar with that part of the codebase, at a high level my desired behaviour would be something like: generate block -> send to client -> maybe cache on disk? (if so, unload from memory) -> if client doesn't  make a change in that block "soon", discard from memory/disk/whatever
20:20 F00 It seems to me that the insistence on always storing what's generated is the primary cause of people bumping into 4 GB map sizes with SQLite
20:21 Taoki ok. Anyone else know? I can't calculate how numbers are stored in bytes to figure out if decimals are kept or not
20:21 PilzAdam F00, this sounds to me like the first step to only store things that are modified
20:21 F00 PilzAdam: Aye
20:22 F00 Oh, wait.
20:22 F00 Are you talking about a scheme in which only client-made modifications are stored on disk?
20:22 PilzAdam yea
20:23 F00 That would be great if generation were able to be sufficiently inexpensive
20:24 F00 I wonder what ends up being faster, typically
20:24 F00 Seek latency plus throughput speed of a HDD vs fresh generation
20:25 PilzAdam currently HDD
20:26 PilzAdam but the other thing could be nice goal for Minetest
20:29 RealBadAngel this imho would slow whole the game down. it means mapgen to be run continously
20:30 Taoki PilzAdam: I turned always_fly_fast to false and can't reproduce that bug. Going up with the Jump key always works in free_move mode
20:30 Taoki It's very weird you're getting the problem and I'm not
20:30 Taoki Even if I turn on free_move when standing perfectly still, and flying up is the first move I do
20:46 VanessaE Taoki: did you see where I mentioned that you can also toggle noclip off/on to get fly ot work?
20:46 VanessaE to*
20:47 hmmmm taoki, did you find out yet?
20:47 Taoki no
20:48 VanessaE Taoki: try signing onto my server and see how it behaves for you
20:48 hmmmm i'm just blown away that you don't know nor are you willing to find out an answer to such a fundamental question
20:48 VanessaE perhaps it's a multiplayer issue
20:48 Taoki VanessaE: Can't now, after I finish
20:48 VanessaE ok
20:48 hmmmm taoki, what's your coding setup?
20:48 Taoki hmmmm: It's not that mind-blowing that I can't calculate byte to number conversions...
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20:52 hmmmm has nothing to do with calculating anything
21:05 Taoki From how it's working, d32 seems to hold decimals
21:05 Taoki **f32
21:06 hmmmm i still cannot understand what is preventing you from looking up where it's defined
21:06 hmmmm you don't even know how your own code works..
21:07 Taoki IIRC f32 and other things like this are builtin c++ types
21:08 RealBadAngel shouldnt f32 be float 32-bit wide?
21:08 hmmmm you recalled wrong then
21:09 hmmmm you should at least know the language that much
21:09 doserj grep "typedef.*f32;" /usr/include/irrlicht/*
21:09 doserj /usr/include/irrlicht/irrTypes.h:typedef floatf32;
21:09 doserj for gods sake
21:10 Taoki Nice, I needed tom look in the sources within a system path. I'm sorry you can't have expert developers who know everything
21:10 Taoki I get this pretty frequently. I try to do something with the little knowledge I have, then I'm given "Why can't you do -insert complex programming stuff here-?"
21:11 hmmmm if you think this is complex, i have some bad news for you
21:11 Taoki Yeah, I'm actually still LEARNING c++ as I work on minetest
21:11 Taoki Yeah, I have seen worse codes
21:12 Taoki MT is helping me learn C++ slowly. Don't need rough teachers smacking me in the head for it though
21:14 Taoki Then again, I'm probably either crazy or stupid. I got similar reactions on #c++ with questions like this. I asked something, got told something I couldn't understand, and when I tried to understand better everyone jumped me like I had some problem.
21:14 hmmmm have you heard people tell you "RAFB" often?
21:14 Taoki Don't remember what that one means :P
21:14 hmmmm well, it's sound advice.
21:18 Taoki Still makes no sense why some devs like to act like this when I don't understand things I'm expected too
21:18 Taoki It's not like I insulted anyone or committed any crime
21:21 Taoki Guess I gotta get used to it, and that this happens when working around expert coders :/
21:22 Taoki Who are obviously, a lot smarter and can blast on noobs like us
21:26 thexyz f32 = 32-bit float
21:28 Taoki thanks / hail
21:29 thexyz it may hold decimals or may not
21:34 hmmmm well
21:35 hmmmm i guess there's nothing inherently wrong with learning how to code while writing things for minetest, but i have a feeling that your contributions ought to be extra-peer-reviewed
21:36 doserj and please don't call it decimals. floats don't store decimals.
21:36 Taoki ok
21:38 VanessaE <sarcasm> but..but...the decimal point has to be stored somewhere! </sarcasm>
21:40 F00 doserj: It's nice to think that floats offer a constant amount of precision
21:41 F00 But then, as every new programmer must, the unfortunate discovery comes about. "Why is this off by 0.00001?"
21:41 F00 And then you start reading about IEEE floating point and slowly go insane.
21:45 Taoki Nah... developers should know everything the moment they're born it seems
21:45 hmmmm you can't call yourself a developer if you don't know enough
21:46 Taoki I do think / hope I know enough to make the codes I'm working good. Those I seem to be good at, but there are some things that are just out of my range to understand
21:48 Taoki Never considered it a "sin"
22:46 Taoki VanessaE: Done. Pull my branch again, and let me know if the flying bug still happens. If it does I will join and try it as well
22:48 Taoki Latest commit also has viscosity working. But for lava it's very slow, you nearly can't move in it. Not sure if that will be accepted, since finding a good maths is difficult there
22:49 Taoki Anyway, let me know when your server is updated and if the fly issue is fixed. Like I said, I tried in several ways and couldn't reproduce it
22:50 Taoki Erm... wait. I think I'll amend my commit, might do something that could be related to the flying bug
22:50 Taoki Hold on...
23:05 Taoki VanessaE: Ready. Pull now... I fixed a problem which might have been the flying bug
23:10 Taoki Yeah... if it's what I think it was this should have surely fixed it. We need to test though
23:29 Taoki VanessaE: There is a different bug on your server it seems. touching_ground and / or gravity might not be updated properly sometimes. I'm stuck in the air, and whenever I re-connect I remain stuck as such. But I don't think it's related to my code, since even gravity doesn't happen any more and I didn't touch that in my branch (apart from making it a setting)

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