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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-06-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

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02:58 ThomasMonroe bye guys i gtg to bed
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06:07 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Update list of installed files concerning server and non-RUN_IN_PLACE… 4783ff9 https://git.io/vH5Kj (2017-06-14T06:04:39Z)
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08:43 bashboi Hello
08:44 bashboi Is possible to install LXC on Android?
08:45 Calinou bashboi: LXC as in the Linux container thing? how is this Minetest-related? :P
08:45 bashboi he he sorry, is offtopic I know
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09:03 sfan5 lxc requires some container stuff in the kernel as far as I'm aware
09:03 sfan5 android will not hav that enabled
09:03 sfan5 if you want linux on android you can use a chroot
09:05 bashboi linux on android?
09:10 sfan5 a linux container on android
09:10 bashboi oh ok
09:11 bashboi what about this? https://lists.linuxcontainers.org/piperm​ail/lxc-devel/2013-December/006532.html
09:13 sfan5 it says:
09:13 sfan5 If you want to run those, you'll need an ARM based Android device with a compatible kernel (you'll likely need to hand-build one) [...]
09:13 bashboi ok got it
09:13 bashboi thanks
09:18 bashboi is not possible to enable this "container stuff" as normal android user, right?
09:19 sfan5 the problem is that the functionality does not exist in the kernel
09:19 sfan5 because it was disabled at compile-time
09:20 bashboi like if the source for that functionalities never existed?
09:20 sfan5 correct
09:24 bashboi is possible to install a new kernel (on android) while the phone is running?
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09:32 bashboi welcome
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11:39 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/master-server: README formatting fixes afd7b16 https://git.io/vHdIT (2017-06-14T11:37:45Z)
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13:38 ShadowNinja Found this online ("Minetest Hack"), anyone in the area interested? (St. Albans, UK; ~1h from London by car) : https://www.meetup.com/Sili​con-Abbey/events/240754344/
13:46 iisu How does MT store the chunks?
13:47 iisu There's that database where each chunk has a position and a BLOB.
13:47 iisu I remember reading some piece of documentation somewhere on the forum but it was as blurry as the BLOB itself. :v
13:50 iisu To store a 16x16x16 nodes of a chunk you would need 16n kiB, where n is the size of data needed to identify the node. But the BLOBs are much smaller than that.
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13:53 iisu BLOBs contain node name strings like "default:mese" also. Why not just give each node an integer ID and store all the names once in a separate array?
13:55 iisu What magic compression do you use to make them so small despite this seeming inefficiency?
14:11 Jordach ShadowNinja, impossible - it's within the M25
14:13 ShadowNinja Jordach: The time?  I just checked Google maps for that and rounded down.  Looks like there's a rail system that will take the time down a lot if the endpoints happen to be close to you.
14:14 Jordach ShadowNinja, M25 is a nogo for my driver
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14:15 CWz I doubt the legitimacy of minetest hack
14:16 CWz it could like a terrorist plot to kidnap brits and trade them as slaves to isis
14:16 CWz it how they brainwash regular people to join their retarded cause.
14:17 ShadowNinja iisu: Assigning a static ID doesn't make since in modern Minetest for a number of reasons.  For one, what happens if you add a new node, how do you make sure it gets assigned an ID thatis never been used before and won't conflict with any other mods -- and how do you make sure that every other copy of minetest agrees so that nodes don't change when you meve from one copy to another.
14:18 ShadowNinja iisu: Also, the node ID field would take up more space since it has to represent every node from every mod that could ever possibly be added to the map.
14:19 ShadowNinja iisu: As for the BLOB format, it's gzip'd.  See doc/world_format.txt for details.
14:24 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Remove legacy content_abm.{cpp,h} ddcd026 https://git.io/vHdgt (2017-06-14T14:23:08Z)
14:29 iisu If you add a new node you just add it to the array and new nodes will be identified by the new entry's index.
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14:31 iisu Supose the static array looks like this: { "default_air", "default_stone", "default_dirt" } Now each node of air is identified with a 0, as this is the first item in the array. Each stone is 1 and so on.
14:32 iisu When you add, say, tree, you just add a new element to the array: { "default_air", "default_stone", "default_dirt", "default_tree" } Now each tree node is identified with the index of the new element which in this case is 3.
14:36 iisu how do you make sure that every other copy of minetest agrees so that nodes don't change when you
14:36 iisu eh, ctrl+v went wrong. I wanted to quote you.
14:38 ShadowNinja iisu: I suppose that would work, but you now need to store and update that somwhere and you can never remove old entries since it would corrupt the map.  Without it you can't decode or save any blocks.  You'd have to make sure that you wrote it out redularly or the database could get corrupted.  The way it is now, if a block gets saved at all you know that its node list also got saved.  Also, right now you know there are a max of 4096 nodes
14:38 ShadowNinja per block, but with that you wouldn't.  You'd have to use 16-bit or better ids in every block, although gzip might help make that somwhat reasonable.
14:38 iisu Anyways, when you move to a different copy of minetest you can just pass your array so that the new copy would look up all the nodes in the old copy's array, compare the names with it's own settings and update the indexes in each node.
14:40 ShadowNinja iisu: There are certainly improvements to be made though: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3946
14:40 iisu A character is 8 bits and a string like "default_stone" is much more than just 2 chars.
14:42 ShadowNinja Yes, but it's only stored once at the end of the block, not 4096 times.  And even if the blocks are a bit bigger, it may be wortth it.
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14:45 iisu "Only" once per block means "only" 4000^3 per map.
14:45 iisu "s/3 /3 times "/
14:45 sfan5 the vast majority of blocks just have a single node: air
14:46 iisu Anyways, I didn't come to suggest an improvement cause I'm a complete noob and I might be wrong. I just wanted to ask how you do it.
14:46 sfan5 you might also want to look at this script: https://gist.github.com/sfan5/5​2917a0e1338bcda2176edbc416dae60
14:53 ShadowNinja iisu: Yes, but there's a tradeoff here.  You save space with node names, and lose it in node IDs.  A major disadvantage is that all of the blocks now depend on that one world -- which would make scripts that merge and split worlds much slower and much more complex. (I know that at least one person has made such scripts and used them on a number of worlds)
15:01 iisu What does read_s() do?
15:03 sfan5 read bytes and interpret them according to the struct syntax (see https://docs.python.org/3/library/struct.html)
15:05 iisu So the first byte of the BLOB is an unsigned char that states for a version of something, I assume of a map, yes?
15:06 sfan5 if you follow the code to see what it does with the version value you should be able to see what its for
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15:22 MinetestBot [git] Rui-Minetest -> minetest/minetest: Fix no sound bug (#5968) bbe3dd9 https://git.io/vHd1d (2017-06-14T15:21:08Z)
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16:02 iisu Why I asked was because I had an idea for a mod but now I see it's not feasible. Also, it was a very lame idea.
16:02 * iisu shrugs
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19:37 MinetestBot [git] red-001 -> minetest/minetest_game: Books: Limit the size of books b3f17cd https://git.io/vHF4V (2017-06-14T19:28:40Z)
19:37 MinetestBot [git] Ezhh -> minetest/minetest_game: Descriptions: Make capitalization consistent 15ba964 https://git.io/vHF4w (2017-06-14T19:26:33Z)
19:37 MinetestBot [git] red-001 -> minetest/minetest_game: Books: Add nil value checks to the book formspec handler da7e8e4 https://git.io/vHF4r (2017-06-14T19:26:17Z)
19:37 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Stairs: Use one recipe matching inventory appearence 175a9f8 https://git.io/vHF4o (2017-06-14T19:26:17Z)
19:37 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest_game: Stairs: Allow crafting slabs and stairs into full blocks again b91e047 https://git.io/vHF4K (2017-06-14T19:25:26Z)
19:49 MinetestBot [git] tenplus1 -> minetest/minetest_game: Creative: Add 'creative' privilege for survival servers 0157175 https://git.io/vHFRR (2017-06-14T19:47:11Z)
20:02 Out`Of`Control Hi
20:02 bigfoot547 Hi
20:03 Out`Of`Control is it possible to add swim animation when its 2 or more nodes water
20:03 Out`Of`Control in depth
20:13 Sokomine Out`Of`Control: guess it would be possible if someone creates a model that has such an animation
20:13 Sokomine setting the animation at the right time might be more difficult
20:16 Out`Of`Control thanks
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22:36 CalebDavis ok i am trying to get the item name when an item is placed in a nodes inventory but idk how is there someone who does
22:42 calcul0n CalebDavis, itemstack:get_name() ?
22:42 CalebDavis ill try that
22:43 CalebDavis it works thx calcul0n
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23:11 red-001 wait so was the a legit k-line
23:12 red-001 or just a quite message joke
23:14 sfan5 quit messages look different
23:14 kaeza quite
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23:21 zorman2000 Hello all
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23:54 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mgv6 mudflow: Avoid partially removed stacked decorations f55816f https://git.io/vHFhC (2017-06-14T23:38:08Z)
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