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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-03-29

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Time Nick Message
00:01 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Sneak: Fix stair lower step bug and ladder in 1x1 hole bugs b85301c https://git.io/vSODA (2017-03-28T23:51:13Z)
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00:40 thePalindrome Alright, could somebody explain how minetest handles userdata?
00:40 thePalindrome I'm getting userdata from InvRef:get_list() and I have no clue how to process it
00:40 thePalindrome The only documentation I can find on it says "like a lua table but"
00:46 thePalindrome er... nvm, it's decided to work now
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01:10 kaeza thePalindrome, "userdata" is a Lua datatype. what you can do with it depends on the metamethods. in your case, those are ItemStack objects
01:11 thePalindrome Yeah, the problem was I was trying to run minetest.log on it, which you can't do because of userdata :P
01:13 kaeza objects used by Minetest could use __tostring metamethods
01:14 kaeza at least to report which type they actually represent
01:28 silent_elk I'm playing an older version of Ravenfield.
01:28 silent_elk Were the tanks supercharged or something?
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04:22 MrIbby Anyone here capable of fixing these redirects/deleting these files?
04:22 MrIbby http://wiki.minetest.net/F​ile:MTG_Brown_Mushroom.png
04:22 MrIbby http://wiki.minetest.net/File:MTG_Red_Mushroom.png
04:27 MrIbby (The files without the MTG prefix are the newer ones)
04:31 silent_elk How does table.copy work?
04:31 silent_elk oh wait
04:31 silent_elk Silly me
04:45 silent_elk Why do clients sometimes just show grey when connecting?
04:46 silent_elk Ohhh wait my server crashed
04:46 silent_elk nvm
04:47 silent_elk Yep, having a second client connect crashes the server
04:47 * silent_elk sighs
04:47 silent_elk Back to the drawing board
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04:48 epoch is there a way I could make minetest use a different dir than ~/.minetest without recompiling?
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05:07 epoch JT2 is back up.
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06:40 Milan[m] epoch, you could symlink the folder..
06:41 epoch good point.
06:42 esp ^ what I do
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06:42 esp Sym .minetest to minetest :)
07:09 silent_elk I'm having trouble with a server crashing.
07:09 silent_elk No error messages are saved in debug.txt
07:09 silent_elk or shown in the console
07:09 epoch awwww crap.
07:09 silent_elk It's not a public server, but it doesn't bode well for my mod, does it?
07:10 epoch I locked myself in my mine shaft.
07:11 silent_elk Why?
07:11 epoch I was building a stair on my way out and didn't check overhead clearance.
07:11 silent_elk lol
07:11 epoch I guess I could die, spawn at the top of the mine where I put my bed then go collect my bones. :P
07:13 epoch I could join as a different user and dig that block out.
07:14 epoch I have a bucket of water I could drown myself with. XD
07:14 * silent_elk slowly claps
07:14 Taose Why can't you just remove the block?
07:14 * epoch races against hunger to bottom of mine to kill self.
07:14 Taose and seriously...
07:15 epoch I used up all my picks. >_>
07:15 Taose a bucket of water
07:15 Taose -_-
07:15 epoch I didn't think I'd need them on my way out.
07:15 silent_elk https://github.com/wilkgr76/egg​wars/blob/master/init.lua#L191
07:15 Taose but you thought you'd need a bucket of water
07:15 silent_elk Gotta be sillly lol
07:15 epoch oh, even quicker. a cavern to jump to the bottom of. :D
07:15 silent_elk lol
07:15 silent_elk Good luck getting your bones back
07:16 epoch it is a private mine. I don't ever see anyone out here. :)
07:16 Taose "I'm going into a mine...hmm, what should I pack, an extra pick axe or a bucket of water..."
07:16 silent_elk Water, defo
07:17 Taose XD
07:17 epoch I got that bucket of water 5 minutes after starting the game but it won't let me place it until -250
07:17 Taose O.o?
07:17 epoch I want to use that bucket darnit.
07:17 silent_elk XD
07:18 epoch gah. it let me put it but it isn't flowing.
07:18 silent_elk What server you playing on?
07:18 epoch just test 2
07:20 silent_elk lol
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07:24 * epoch brings along 99 sticks this time.
07:24 silent_elk lol
07:24 silent_elk Good idea
07:24 silent_elk or even better
07:24 silent_elk just take a couple of saplings along
07:24 silent_elk You can use torches for light
07:24 silent_elk and you'll probably find dirt
07:25 epoch I think this map is just stone and ores.
07:25 silent_elk oh :(
07:25 silent_elk grab some dirt then too
07:26 epoch growing underground seems like a good idea though.
07:26 epoch wouldn't have to go back up to get supplies.
07:26 silent_elk :P
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08:21 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Sneak: Fix sneaking on free-floating lower-half slabs 5e80669 https://git.io/vS33Y (2017-03-29T08:19:49Z)
08:23 silent_elk Yay!
08:24 shivajiva awesome sfan5 :)
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08:47 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Lemon Chiffon Cake Day! 😃 🎂
08:47 silent_elk G'morning
08:50 PureTryOut[m] so for some reason I just can't change the hand item (yes the commit that adds that possibility is in my build). `player:get_inventory():set_stack("hand", 1, "default:sand")` as example doesn't do it
08:51 PureTryOut[m] (literally no change to the hand at all)
08:55 silent_elk Do nodes work or do you need to use a tool?
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08:58 PureTryOut[m] no clue. I tried replacing the hand with the regular creative hand first, but that didn't do anything either
08:58 PureTryOut[m] but as the hand is now just a regular inventory, I'd guess a regular node/item works as well
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09:15 PureTryOut[m] hmm it actually returns false... `player:get_inventory():set_stack("hand", 1 "default:sand")`. what the hell?
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09:23 shangul i just wanted to create minetest page on wikipedia
09:23 shangul page was created and deleted several times
09:24 shangul where i can see the deleted page?
09:25 shangul "Keep - Looks like the poor deletionists/Minecraft fanboys are getting angry."
09:25 shangul "I find it suprising that they have 75 people on their main IRC channel alone"
09:25 shangul now it's 150
09:29 shangul 7 times was deleted, that page
09:30 shangul and the last time was 7 Jan 2015
09:31 shangul it is said that it had about 2000-3000 members on forum, now it has 10000, maybe recreating the page?after 2 years?
09:38 shangul "This page is protected from creation, so only administrators can create it."
09:49 OldCoder shangul, Hi
09:49 shangul hi OldCoder
09:49 OldCoder If I recall correctly, there is a vendetta against MT at WP
09:49 OldCoder celeron55 would remember
09:49 OldCoder WP has its own wiki
09:50 OldCoder OOps
09:50 OldCoder I mean
09:50 OldCoder MT has its own wiki
09:50 OldCoder You are most welcome to edit that
09:50 OldCoder Several people in #minetest-project or -dev
09:50 OldCoder Should be able to tell you how to access it; I forget
09:50 shangul minetest
09:51 OldCoder Hm?
09:51 OldCoder I mean, ask in those channels
09:51 OldCoder but wait a minute
09:51 OldCoder http://wiki.minetest.net/Main_Page\
09:51 OldCoder Oops
09:51 OldCoder http://wiki.minetest.net/Main_Page
09:51 OldCoder shangul, ^
09:52 shangul minecraft and a lot of other software and also games have their own wikis, but this does not mean that they should not have a page on wikipedia
09:52 shangul i saw that OldCoder, but i don't know how to edit it
09:52 OldCoder Right
09:52 OldCoder Hold on
09:52 OldCoder Come to #minetest-project please
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10:15 celeron55 shangul: it was deleted because on wikipedia they decided that there are not enough important news articles about minetest
10:15 celeron55 which frankly is only because we don't do public relations stuff and not even press releases
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10:16 shangul what do you mean by "press releases"?
10:17 celeron55 well, those things that companies usually spam to journalists to get those lazy bastards make news about them
10:18 OldCoder Print
10:18 OldCoder shangul, he is referring to either major corporate sites or print articles
10:18 OldCoder Which is awkward for WP in an age when print is dying
10:18 shangul i think i got that
10:19 OldCoder If you mean, you figured out the answer by yourself, that is fine. We answer questions regardless.
10:19 celeron55 there probably are enough articles about minetest these days to get on wikipedia, but the deletionists don't seem to understand that concept
10:19 shangul you should to have an article about minetest in a printed magazine
10:20 shangul you should have*
10:20 celeron55 they just look up that it was deleted and decide that should be the case forever
10:20 OldCoder celeron55, has anybody opened an issue there in the past couple of years
10:20 OldCoder ?
10:20 celeron55 shangul: no, not printed, but something big apparently
10:20 OldCoder I could ask Wales, but he actually hates me :D
10:20 celeron55 mainstream media i guess
10:21 shangul celeron55, FCM?
10:21 celeron55 they don't make their requirements very clear
10:21 OldCoder It is ad hoc, celeron55
10:21 OldCoder Friends of Wales... their stuff goes in
10:21 celeron55 also they hate it when the people who write an article about a project are the ones involved in the project
10:21 celeron55 also they *are* minecraft fanboys
10:22 shangul celeron55, how about FCM?is it big enough?
10:22 celeron55 or at least scared about microsoft
10:22 shangul heh
10:22 celeron55 i don't know what FCM is
10:22 shangul Full Circle Magazine
10:23 celeron55 well, do wales' friends read it?
10:23 shangul i don't read and follow it anyway
10:23 shangul celeron55, who are wales' friends? :D
10:23 celeron55 lol, i don't know
10:24 shangul it has a page on WP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/Full_Circle_%28magazine%29
10:27 rubenwardy you need to go through articles for creation
10:28 shangul lemme see how many followers they have on social media
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10:31 shangul 6400 on G+, 4800 on twitter,
10:31 shangul and 5000 likes on facebook, is it big enough?
10:31 celeron55 well how many does CNN have?
10:32 shangul CNN?
10:32 celeron55 :D
10:32 shangul the television channel?
10:32 silent_elk 15m
10:32 silent_elk likes on Facebook
10:32 silent_elk 15k*
10:33 silent_elk And also 15k followers on Twitter
10:33 celeron55 eh, it has 33M follower on twitter
10:33 celeron55 +s
10:33 shangul the tv channel?
10:34 celeron55 yes, i'm just trying to figure out what wikipedia would consider important enough
10:36 celeron55 if you can find something like 5 independent news articles from the past year, you might be able to convince them
10:36 celeron55 articles with 1000+ readers or something
10:37 shangul i think FCM is big enough, isn't it?those 4800 followers on twitter don't read it?
10:38 shangul oh, we need 5 of these?
10:39 shangul anyway thanks for spending time to answer me
10:42 epoch is there a trick I could do to not get hurt after falling a couple hundred blocks?
10:42 epoch :>
10:42 shangul epoch, fly, teleport, fall in water
10:43 shangul when mobs will be added to offical release of minetest?
10:45 OldCoder shangul, in my _game
10:45 shangul OldCoder, your sub game you meant?
10:45 OldCoder My minetest_game release
10:45 OldCoder In my builds
10:45 OldCoder It will come with the package
10:46 OldCoder Actually, it already might
10:46 OldCoder I forget; I'll need to check
10:46 shangul OldCoder, that will be a part of offical release?
10:47 OldCoder My official release
10:47 shangul OldCoder, where i can see your minetest_game?that repo on github?
10:47 OldCoder I will make one for you
10:47 OldCoder If you ask next week
10:47 OldCoder Pretty tired right now
10:47 shangul why make?
10:48 OldCoder I do not understand the question
10:48 OldCoder I will cut a new release
10:48 OldCoder Is that better?
10:48 shangul ah i get you now
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11:05 Markow My new workstation after dumping LXDE / LXQt, MBR, & Grub2:  openSUSE Linux w/: OpenBox3, Tint2, ROX-Filer2, Syslinux Bootloader, GPT Partition. Light, Fast, & Efficient!  http://i.imgur.com/PGitsGb.jpg
11:05 Markow ;)
11:05 shangul OldCoder, do you have a github/gitlab/launchpad account?
11:06 riff-IRC joined #minetest
11:06 shangul Markow, what you wanna do with this workstation?
11:07 Markow Hack Clinton ;)
11:08 shangul huh?
11:08 shangul what is that?
11:09 OldCoder shangul, Yes
11:09 OldCoder No MT repos that I recall; possibly one for a past PR
11:09 shangul OldCoder, aw
11:09 OldCoder I'm putting most files on minetest.org
11:10 OldCoder Watch for releases there
11:10 OldCoder Also git repos
11:10 OldCoder Redoing everything
11:10 shangul OldCoder, you want to release your minetest game next week?can i have the current release?
11:10 OldCoder shangul, I will make you a nice _game next week
11:10 OldCoder I could do it now
11:10 OldCoder But shangul I have just spent a full week on MT and am swamped IRL
11:11 shangul OldCoder, make "me"?
11:11 OldCoder Must catch up
11:11 OldCoder I do not understand the question
11:11 shangul OldCoder, there is a different minetest than what i think?
11:12 shangul hmm
11:12 shangul there is OldCoder's minetest, is it a fork of minetest or what?
11:12 OldCoder shangul, we are in an unusual period
11:13 OldCoder Mine is as official as any to the extent it is a snapshot
11:13 OldCoder shangul, MT is a git stream
11:13 OldCoder Snapshots may be taken at any point
11:13 OldCoder Excuse me, I am fixing a bug right now
11:14 shangul OldCoder, ok, sorry
11:14 OldCoder No need for sorry!
11:14 OldCoder The ones who say sorry, you know, are never the ones who ought to :-)
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11:18 epoch >_>
11:18 epoch somehow I fell a couple hundred block and didn't die.
11:19 OldCoder epoch, fall damage is random
11:19 OldCoder In fact, children jump from a space station in LOTT...
11:19 OldCoder Fall 20,000 nodes
11:19 OldCoder and walk away
11:19 OldCoder Need to fix it so they make a crater
11:19 OldCoder and explode properly
11:19 epoch :)
11:22 epoch I dug all the way down to lava.
11:22 epoch hole going straight down.
11:25 riff-IRC uhhhhhhhhh
11:26 PureTryOut[m] so the "hand" item not changing what I was talking about only seems to happen on my laptop... wtf
11:26 PureTryOut[m] on desktop it works fine
11:30 epoch hrm... I think I sneak glitched my self to a stop.
11:30 epoch fell 400 and caught myself with sneak+jump when I got to a hole in the wall.
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11:31 epoch or maybe I got lucky again.
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11:36 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Add CPP11 header to define nullptr & constexpr (#5471) b605b95 https://git.io/vS3VQ (2017-03-29T11:34:57Z)
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11:50 riff-IRC .
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13:02 PureTryOut[m] why does the minimap keep enabling itself when I enter a world? :/
13:03 PureTryOut[m] (even if I turn it off before I leave the world)
13:03 VanessaE disable it in your config
13:04 lumidify joined #minetest
13:04 VanessaE Settings tab -> "Advanced Settings", search "mini" and disable the first "minimap" one.
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13:07 PureTryOut[m] well that's interesting... the content of the minimap is gone, now it's just a black box with a border and the player... cursor?
13:07 PureTryOut[m] console logs stuff of a "preview" mod?
13:08 PureTryOut[m] I'm 100% certain I didn't install a "preview" mod
13:08 sfan5 its installed by default
13:08 PureTryOut[m] is it new? I can't remember it being there before
13:08 PureTryOut[m] this is my own subgame even
13:09 sfan5 its a client-side mod
13:09 VanessaE yeah, you have to turn the minimap ON in your config, and then F9 turns it off.
13:09 VanessaE I guess if it's off in your config, then the F9 key is just ignored
13:09 PureTryOut[m] ooh client-side... so new then indeed ;)
13:09 VanessaE hence you can't turn it off when the "preview" mod turns it on
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13:10 PureTryOut[m] so... except for straight up deleting the mod, can it be disabled somewhere?
13:10 VanessaE no
13:11 VanessaE cheapie said he has a little mod that he wrote to override the "preview" mod's behavior
13:13 PureTryOut[m] hmm... well I'll just delete it for now then
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13:16 VanessaE also, this matrix thing needs to die in a fire :P
13:16 twoelk matrixes burn?
13:17 VanessaE heh.
13:18 twoelk I whave to deal with fire, heat and smoke at work and we do sometimes use matrix calculations or whatever that is in english - so we fight fires with matrixes - not good if they are flammable
13:20 * twoelk wonders where that extra <w> came from
13:21 PureTryOut[m] wait what is wrong with Matrix now?
13:21 VanessaE it's annoying to us IRC purists ;)
13:22 fireglow[m] Matrix reporting in
13:22 fireglow[m] I just set up my own HS and IRC AS
13:22 fireglow[m] very much tinkering
13:23 fireglow[m] I expect there to be 1000 bugs
13:23 VanessaE so connected.  much tinkering.  wow.
13:23 VanessaE :)
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13:24 PureTryOut[m] IRC purist? do you even hear yourself?
13:24 VanessaE yep :)
13:24 PureTryOut[m] seriously, what is the deal with people hating on Matrix for no good reason?
13:24 PureTryOut[m] except that we have a `[m]` behind our name, you don't even notice we're not using an IRC client
13:24 VanessaE well for starters, it posts crap in chat when you upload an image to somewhere.  it appends that [m] to your name to advertise it.  and it makes some users believe they're not even on IRC in the first place.
13:24 PureTryOut[m] and even that I can get rid of if I wanted too
13:25 PureTryOut[m] posts crap in a chat? you mean the link to the image? like you guys normally upload stuff to imgur?
13:25 fireglow hehe
13:25 VanessaE it's different when we do it :)
13:25 fireglow how?
13:25 PureTryOut[m] your last point I guess I can get behind, but I don't understand how that's a problem for anyone
13:25 PureTryOut[m] and yeah, how is it different?
13:26 VanessaE because it requires an explicit action to paste the address
13:26 sfan5 the matrix links are not particulary pretty
13:26 sfan5 * [...] uploaded an image: screenshot_20170326_194215.png (611KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/JmMzqDseSYIesgiNOKdnUZRE
13:26 VanessaE damn it, ninja'd
13:27 sfan5 if "normal" irc users do it then it's a short link
13:27 VanessaE in short, PureTryOut[m], it's generally considered frowned-upon to have your client auto-post stuff in chat
13:27 sfan5 if you do it it's some text saying someone uploaded shit, its name, its file size and a huge link
13:27 VanessaE regardless of its purpose.
13:28 sfan5 also isnt it supposed to be decentralized
13:28 VanessaE yes.
13:28 sfan5 because currently it seems very centralized to me
13:28 sfan5 who pays for matrix.org?
13:28 fireglow I pay for firc.de, use https://firc.de/chat/#/
13:28 fireglow hue
13:28 agaran good afternoon
13:28 fireglow Hello agaran
13:28 VanessaE hi agaran
13:28 sfan5 fireglow: does it use that if you post images here?
13:28 PureTryOut[m] it is decentralized
13:29 PureTryOut[m] you can use matrix.org, but you don't need too if you don't want too
13:29 PureTryOut[m] although true right now most people are on matrix.org
13:29 VanessaE s/too/to/g
13:29 fireglow sfan5: not on freenode, but on my own IRC network, yeah
13:29 PureTryOut[m] also the link thing, that's just the bridge converting it. on the Matrix side it shows an inline image (or however the client wants to display it). you still have to manually upload the file, it doesn't "auto" do it for you
13:29 agaran well gtalk initially permitted xmpp connectivity outside of google.. but not after they gained enough users.
13:30 PureTryOut[m] GTalk wasn't made with the purpose to be decentralized though
13:30 PureTryOut[m] Matrix is
13:30 sfan5 so every single person on freenode using matrix is using a single irc bridge
13:30 sfan5 that's everything but decentralized
13:30 PureTryOut[m] if Matrix stops being decentralized, then nobody would have a reason to use it anymore
13:30 sfan5 PureTryOut[m]: the way the bridge convert it is quite ugly
13:31 PureTryOut[m] sfan5: of course the bridge isn't. but on the Matrix side it still is
13:31 VanessaE it. needs. to. die.
13:31 PureTryOut[m] still, you may not like the product yourself, I just don't see why you hate that somebody else would use it
13:31 sfan5 so it's only decentralized if everyone uses it and there i no outside contact
13:31 sfan5 is*
13:32 * twoelk puts away his torch, takes of the pointed hood and wanders off
13:32 PureTryOut[m] IRC is the only decentralized factor here, that doesn't make the entire thing undecentralized...
13:32 fireglow twoelk ;)
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13:32 fireglow if you take out IRC and compare Matrix to Slack, it's much more obvious ;)
13:32 PureTryOut[m] if the IRC server or bridge goes down (or is blocked), the Matrix side of the chat keeps on talking
13:33 VanessaE ...and you end up split off of IRC.
13:33 PureTryOut[m] so?
13:33 VanessaE ergo, a point of failure.
13:33 agaran PureTryOut[m]: and that is completely irrelevant for irc users..
13:33 PureTryOut[m] doesn't make Matrix not decentralized
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13:33 VanessaE yes, it does.
13:33 VanessaE a single point of failure
13:33 PureTryOut[m] agaran: obviously
13:33 fireglow[m]1 Hello from another matrix instance ;)
13:33 VanessaE with IRC, you just switch servers.
13:33 PureTryOut[m] VanessaE: THAT'S JUST THE FUCKING IRC SIDE
13:33 sfan5 "just irc"
13:33 sfan5 ok
13:33 PureTryOut[m] Matrix IS STILL DECENTRALIZED
13:33 PureTryOut[m] ugh
13:33 sfan5 yes it is
13:33 agaran PureTryOut[m]: why swearing, lack of real arguments?
13:33 VanessaE PureTryOut[m]: no, that's just the fucking matrix bridge hing
13:33 VanessaE thing*
13:33 PureTryOut[m] just... stop this conversation, we clearly won't switch our minds
13:33 sfan5 however the matrix <-> irc bridge is a SPOF
13:33 VanessaE which is by definition, not de-centralized.
13:34 PureTryOut[m] I had this conversation too much in other channels before, nobody is changing their minds
13:34 PureTryOut[m] so why bother?
13:34 sfan5 because you are incorrect
13:34 fireglow the bridge is a stopgap, not a essential part of the Matrix protocol
13:34 VanessaE fireglow: it's essential if you want to get on an IRC network with it :P
13:34 * twoelk got a sack of wooden bridges for the Carcassonne game
13:34 fireglow matrix will do just fine without IRC
13:34 PureTryOut[m] sfan5: in my eyes you guys are incorrect. we can keep going on about this but it won't change a thing
13:34 * agaran shrugs and goes to spend time on something worth unlike matrix..
13:34 sfan5 fireglow: the fact that it is just a stopgap that implies everyone is in the process (or intended to) switch to matrix
13:35 PureTryOut[m] fireglow: and IRC jsut fine without Matrix. there, we all happy now? can we just keep on using whatever we prefer?
13:35 sfan5 PureTryOut[m]: i'd love to hear an argument why the bridge is not a single point of failure
13:35 fireglow yes?
13:35 fireglow hint: the webchat is also a SPOF ;)
13:35 VanessaE PureTryOut[m]: IRC predates matrix, along with nearly every other chat system out there.  we set the standard.
13:35 fireglow so is mibbit
13:35 sfan5 fireglow: my point is that there is no transition to matrix
13:35 PureTryOut[m] I don't get this need to argue from the IRC side.
13:35 VanessaE fireglow: but you don't need to use webchat to get to IRC.
13:36 fireglow you don't need to use matrix to get on IRC
13:36 sfan5 so having a bridge is kinda nice but kinda uhh..
13:36 agaran VanessaE: would you mind PM asi it is offtopic here?
13:36 fireglow nobody says matrix wants to replace IRC, lol
13:36 sfan5 agaran: no
13:36 fireglow you have your assumptions wrong again
13:36 sfan5 this channel is no strictly on-topic
13:36 sfan5 not*
13:36 PureTryOut[m] (hint: they don't actually want to replace IRC)
13:36 sfan5 fireglow: did you not just say "yes"
13:36 agaran sfan5: but I want stuff that is even more off topic.. really..
13:36 VanessaE fireglow: no, but if you DO use matrix, you need that bridge, and if the bridge fails, you lose IRC connectivity.  with a traditional IRC client, you just switch to another server, usually automatically.
13:36 fireglow VanessaE: so?
13:36 sfan5 agaran: oh sorry i misunderstood your msg
13:36 agaran unless you like to hear rant about DDS and inability to lock trigger of scope timebase to rising edge :)
13:36 fireglow that risk is implied in the usage
13:37 fireglow same with any other gateway to IRC, that isn't a IRC client, such as the official freenode webchat
13:37 sfan5 "webchat" is not an alternative protocol or platform?
13:37 fireglow I'm not sure why we're even having this discussion
13:37 VanessaE fireglow: indeed.  each of those constitutes a single point of failure for their respective portals.
13:37 PureTryOut[m] me neither fireglow
13:38 fireglow sfan5: sure it is. On Quakenet, the ORIGINAL webchat once broke form too many users, I was there ;)
13:38 VanessaE they're all bridges to IRC from something that is not a traditional IRC client.
13:38 sfan5 fireglow: how is that related?
13:38 fireglow it's an additional service to IRC, that CAN break down, same as the Matrix bridge
13:38 sfan5 indeed
13:38 fireglow therefor a SPOF
13:38 sfan5 correct
13:38 fireglow so what's the problem with the Matrix Bridge?
13:39 fireglow fireglow │ that risk is implied in the usage
13:39 sfan5 it's a SPOF for the matrix usage situation in this channel
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13:39 sfan5 if the bridge breaks down are you just going to say "nvm i'm having talks with only the 5 matrix users now" ?
13:39 fireglow there hardly is a "matrix situation" I count five matrix users in IRC at this time.
13:40 fireglow it's merely a convenience for Matrix Users, and a bit of a playpen
13:40 sfan5 "situation" wasn't trying to imply any number of users
13:40 fireglow then what did you trying to imply by using that phrase?
13:41 fireglow I suggest you try matrix and the irc bridge before forming an opinion on it
13:41 fireglow[m]1 left #minetest
13:41 sfan5 i am not forming an opinion on those things itself, it's about their concept
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13:42 fireglow suit yourself ;)
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13:45 VanessaE sfan5: just as I dislike matrix (it feels like an ... invader), I dislike the notion of accessing IRC from one of those all-in-one clients like Pidgin (but that's because then it just doesn't look like IRC)
13:46 PureTryOut[m] VanessaE: but that shouldn't matter too you. you can just not use that "all-in-one" client
13:46 VanessaE correct.
13:46 VanessaE which is why I don't.
13:47 VanessaE the problem stems from the old days, when how IRC looked mattered to some degree.
13:47 VanessaE s/the/that/
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13:48 PureTryOut[m] see, discussion done
13:48 VanessaE the difference, PureTryOut[m], is that matrix makes itself known to people NOT using it.
13:49 VanessaE whereas pidgin et al. don't
13:49 VanessaE if I hadn't mentioned using hexchat, you could have easily assumed I was using bitchx, irssi, pidgin, or even the original terminal irc client.
13:50 sfan5 you forgot mIRC
13:50 VanessaE or that.
13:50 PureTryOut[m] VanessaE: still, how does that matter to you?
13:50 PureTryOut[m] what do you care what client I use?
13:51 VanessaE PureTryOut[m]: I don't.  I care that your client is advertising itself.
13:51 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: l_minimap: don't show minimap if configuration doesn't allow it fbc1432 https://git.io/vS35x (2017-03-29T13:50:22Z)
13:51 fireglow PureTryOut[m]: heh, good point
13:51 PureTryOut[m] the `[m]` bit? why exactly?
13:51 PureTryOut[m] and I could remove that from my nickname if I wanted too
13:51 fireglow lol if the [m] is a problem, that's hilarious
13:51 sfan5 why does nobody do that if you can
13:51 PureTryOut[m] I just don't care enough for that
13:52 PureTryOut[m] sfan5: beecause nobody cares enough, and we don't see it on our side
13:52 sfan5 fireglow: it's more of an annoyance
13:52 sfan5 >we don't see it on our side
13:52 sfan5 of thats why
13:52 Jordach >hipster webapp wants to be the downs kid in the autistic clas
13:52 PureTryOut[m] well, I could say the same to you guys. "IRC is advertising itself"
13:53 PureTryOut[m] (your names show up with (IRC) behind it)
13:53 red-004[IRC] lol
13:53 Jordach i don't think anyone would care if San Fran got nuked
13:53 Jordach it'd end the stupid web startup webapps
13:53 red-004[IRC] matrix is advertising IRC
13:54 PureTryOut[m] I don't see it as advertising though lol, but whatever
13:54 PureTryOut[m] just ignore it
13:54 sfan5 0/10 argument
13:54 Jordach that argument is so weak it couldn't even pick up a penny
13:54 PureTryOut[m] I really don't care anymore
13:54 fireglow[m] omfg red-004[IRC] you're invading my safe space
13:55 Jordach[Quassel] tl;dr ayy lmao
13:55 fireglow[m] Jordach hahhahah :D
13:55 sfan5 Jordach[Quassel]: nice meme
13:55 red-004[IRC] I just want everyone to know what platform I use
13:55 * PureTryOut[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot_2017-03-29_15-55-51.png (5KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/kPwRQAqStoaiOaiOyQuQfGJn
13:55 PureTryOut[m] red-004[IRC]: ^ it's a bit double now
13:55 fireglow[m] wow yeah I forgot about Quassel
13:55 fireglow[m] that's just the same lol
13:55 Jordach[Quassel] fireglow[m], quassel can be a standalone client
13:55 Jordach[Quassel] i just use it for it's infinite scrollback
13:55 fireglow[m] yeah
13:56 red-004[IRC] well I can't use spaces in irc names
13:56 fireglow[m] my normal IRC setup is ZNC+weechat in a tmux on homeserver
13:57 fireglow[Webchat joined #minetest
13:57 fireglow[Webchat hi guys
13:57 fireglow[Webchat what's up
13:58 fireglow[Webchat I'm upsetting the IRC purists right now
13:58 fireglow[Webchat dealwithit.jpg
13:58 red-004[IRC][Eli lol matrix doesn't even respond ctcp ver as matrix
13:58 fireglow[Webchat how rude
13:59 VanessaE heh
13:59 fireglow they be like https://firc.de/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/firc.de/VUMxezJlvDoHxfkVwOTCxxkh
14:00 PureTryOut[m] so.. Minetest related talk... is there anyway to detect if a player opened his/her inventory?
14:01 twoelk he doesn't move anymore
14:02 * twoelk would like an animation indicating a player has opened his inventory
14:02 VanessaE I don't believe so, PureTryOut.
14:02 Jordach[Quassel] PureTryOut[m], on_recieve_fields cheking for inventory changes
14:02 red-004[IRC][Eli did hexhchat remove disabling CTCP version?
14:03 sfan5 you can still disable it in the ctcp replies tab
14:03 sfan5 (by having it do nothing on CTCP VERSION)
14:03 red-004[IRC] doesn't seem to work
14:03 red-004[IRC] I see my fake version and my real version
14:03 PureTryOut[m] minetest.register_on_player_receive_fields only runs when something happens inside the inventory (pressing a button)
14:04 Jordach[Quassel] PureTryOut[m], closing it shows up too
14:04 red-004[IRC] and my other custom ctcp commands work
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14:06 fireglow[irssi] this feels very pure
14:07 PureTryOut[m] Jordach[Quassel]: ok... but how do I check for an inventory opening?
14:08 sfan5 i dont think thats possible
14:08 PureTryOut[m] hmm, annoying
14:09 PureTryOut[m] I want to determine my inventory formspec based on settings that or events that happen before it's opened
14:09 Jordach[Quassel] formname might be player:name
14:09 Jordach[Quassel] https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1817
14:10 PureTryOut[m] right now it only changes after opening and closing the inventory once
14:10 Jordach[Quassel] PureTryOut[m], using print(formname)
14:10 Jordach[Quassel] the inventory is literally ""
14:11 PureTryOut[m] ? I don't know how that would help me
14:11 Jordach[Quassel] oh shit
14:11 Jordach[Quassel] it's worse than that
14:11 PureTryOut[m] I just need a function to run (with the player parameter passed to it) when a player opens it's inventory
14:11 Jordach[Quassel] it returns nil
14:11 Jordach[Quassel] print(formname.."_") -> close inv = _
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14:40 twoelk maybe check for last formspec open event by player and look if has been closed yet?
14:42 twoelk oops - out of sync
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14:49 PureTryOut[m] ugh, that sounds like a hack
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14:55 VanessaE this is minetest.  half of the shit we do in mods is hacks ;)
14:55 passant joined #minetest
14:55 PureTryOut[m] lol
14:55 PureTryOut[m] that's pretty bad :p
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14:58 thefamilygrog66 you don't wanna know what I hacked up this morning...
14:59 XtremeHacker What?
15:00 thefamilygrog66 haha
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15:00 VanessaE vegetables, for a salad? :)
15:00 thefamilygrog66 nice
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15:57 Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, official Minetest channel | Latest version: 0.4.15 (2016-12-22) | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/
15:57 sfan5 joined #minetest
15:57 PureTryOut[m] ooh maybe I found it already, literally the `field` tag it seems
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16:34 red-004[IRC] PSA: and like with html hidden fields you shouldn't trust the user not to fake it
16:35 PureTryOut[m] ooh? how could a player edit that then?
16:36 Calinou hacks
16:38 PureTryOut[m] lol. well doesn't really matter in my case, the player will only hinder himself
16:39 red-004[IRC] users can completely fake formspec summitting
16:41 red-004[IRC] nice the serverlist and the irc logger are back
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17:08 Jordach the kitten got on top of it and slept on the power button
17:08 Jordach sorry for the delays ;P
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18:58 UnityKris It's been ages since I've played minetest. What's the best method of updating?
18:59 PureTryOut[m] Depends on your operating system
18:59 UnityKris Ubuntu 16.04
18:59 PureTryOut[m] If you use Linux, it should've been updated by your package manager already
18:59 PureTryOut[m] Well there you go
18:59 UnityKris I built from source last I remember
18:59 PureTryOut[m] ooh
18:59 epoch git pull?
18:59 UnityKris Is the package manager the way to go now though?
19:00 PureTryOut[m] in that case, `cd /wherever/your/git/repo/is && git pull && cmake . && make -j$(nproc) && sudo make install`
19:00 PureTryOut[m] well not if you want a develop version
19:00 UnityKris I'll git pull.
19:00 PureTryOut[m] if you just want stable, yeah definitely go for the package manager
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19:04 MinetestBot [git] zaoqi -> minetest/minetest_game: Use creative.is_enabled_for for creative mode if possible (#1558) 077316b https://git.io/vSsQ0 (2017-03-29T19:02:26Z)
19:04 UnityKris If this tells you how long its been, I was on 14.04 and have fully wiped to install 16.04, but have yet to install git or cmake again.
19:04 MinetestBot [git] cx384 -> minetest/minetest_game: doors: add groups to the door craftitem b847888 https://git.io/vSsQE (2017-03-29T18:40:56Z)
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19:10 PureTryOut[m] why not just upgrade 14.04 to 16.04? why reinstall?
19:13 epoch http://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest
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19:52 PureTryOut[m] > tmw you've been searching for the cause of a bug for an hour, start to blame Minetest, then find the cause and realize you're stupid
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19:57 greeter lol
20:00 PureTryOut[m] what the hell? since when does `player.is_player()` require the player object as a parameter?
20:00 behalebabo call as, player:is_player
20:00 behalebabo that will pass the object implicitly
20:00 PureTryOut[m] ooh nvm, `.` and `:` seem to make a difference
20:00 PureTryOut[m] ooh is that it
20:00 PureTryOut[m] thanks, learned something today
20:01 behalebabo yeah, a:b() is the same as a.b(a)
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23:20 silent_elk Yay
23:20 silent_elk I managed to break it even further.
23:20 silent_elk Now the server crashes as soon as the first player joins
23:20 silent_elk with no error message lol
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23:20 epoch does it segfault?
23:21 silent_elk Nope
23:22 silent_elk Uhhh  now it does work
23:22 silent_elk Interesting.
23:22 All|knowing joined #minetest
23:23 epoch you using Linux?
23:23 epoch might be the out of memory killer?
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23:24 silent_elk I've just figured something out
23:24 silent_elk It crashes in singleplayer
23:24 silent_elk but not when I start a server then connect to it
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23:27 epoch is there a mod that adds magic?
23:27 silent_elk I believe so
23:27 silent_elk Let me check
23:27 epoch I'm thinking of the kind of magic that's in nethack.
23:28 epoch like, writing protection spells on the ground in dust..
23:28 silent_elk I've never used any of those
23:28 silent_elk so
23:28 epoch maybe potions and alchemy
23:28 OldCoder Yes, there is code that is close enough to make that work
23:28 OldCoder But it is buggy
23:28 OldCoder Can be used as a start
23:28 OldCoder I forget the mod name(s) but I've tried them
23:28 OldCoder Hm
23:29 OldCoder You could skip those and perhaps just modify...
23:29 OldCoder kaeza's bookex mod
23:29 OldCoder to produce spellbooks from scratch
23:29 OldCoder Those could be as complex or simple as you wished
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23:31 silent_elk I'm amusing not this, but may be interesting: https://github.com/benedict42/alchemtinker
23:33 silent_elk assuming*
23:33 silent_elk lol
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23:53 epoch I thought of something else fun to add.
23:54 epoch it'd require aluminum.
23:54 epoch mortar + pestle
23:54 epoch and some way to make iron oxide (rust)
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23:55 epoch maybe iron + salt water, but then you'd need salt and I dunno what else it could be used for.
23:55 epoch curing food?
23:55 epoch anyway. thermite.
23:55 epoch :D
23:56 OldCoder epoch, are you able to see IRC PMs ?
23:56 epoch yeah.
23:56 OldCoder Do you see mine?
23:56 OldCoder Wish to respond there?

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