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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-06-27

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01:22 nm0i Running minetest on 2011 phone :3
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02:17 Zipper213 hello
02:22 nm0i Hello
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03:02 swift110 sup
03:03 TheReaperKing How do I activate the single node mapgen?
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04:07 swift110-phone sup guys
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04:36 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Doors: Add dedicated sounds for glass doors f796194 https://git.io/voHS2 (2016-06-27T05:32:36+01:00)
04:36 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default: New aspen tree schematics 84e4ae1 https://git.io/voHSa (2016-06-27T05:32:36+01:00)
04:36 MinetestBot [git] tenplus1 -> minetest/minetest_game: Default: Enable crafting of mese crystal fragments into mese crystal f15f35c https://git.io/voHSV (2016-06-27T05:31:04+01:00)
04:36 MinetestBot [git] tenplus1 -> minetest/minetest_game: Default: Craft locked chest from chest plus steel ingot be918d2 https://git.io/voHSw (2016-06-27T05:30:20+01:00)
04:36 MinetestBot [git] tenplus1 -> minetest/minetest_game: Creative: Document creative.formspec_add in game_api.txt 6bf552e https://git.io/voHSr (2016-06-27T05:28:43+01:00)
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07:21 paramat TheReaperKing activate singlenode thus: https://gist.github.com/pa​ramat/feb2361da106371652ad
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08:18 Calinou merged a small website pull request, now the images in gallery have a "alt" text for screen readers
08:29 nm0i I just made captcha mod http://me0w.net/pit/1467016113
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08:42 nm0i Fake, of course
08:43 nm0i Just tired of cleaning kindergarden
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08:49 JamesTait Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Industrial Workers Of The World Day! 😃
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11:09 mhsjlw hi, i'm looking to write a minetest protocol-compatible server
11:09 mhsjlw is the protocol on the wiki (from 2013) still correct?
11:09 mhsjlw or are there any other places I can look?
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12:38 Fixer Taoki: render is not dying, it just low priority right now, I think hmmm wanted to look at it later
12:43 Taoki Fixer: Good to know. I want to maintain hoppe that Minetest will one day at least get close to the graphics of Terasology and such.
12:43 Taoki There is a lot to do sadly, and few people around experienced with this part of the code.
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12:55 Fixer Taoki: i'm not sure if Terasoligy like graphics is a goal right now
12:56 Fixer Taoki: render needs optimisation and fixes right now, adding more stuff will slow down it a lot
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13:09 Calinou Taoki: if getting close to Terasology's graphics means making it unplayable on all current hardware…
13:09 Calinou there are few people experienced in 3D graphics on Earth, and even less of them willing to work on open source :/
13:10 Volkj a question: past the graphics, what are the "selling points" of terasology?
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13:15 Calinou overuse of factories and OOP principles?
13:29 Volkj isn't minetest using OOP also, being written in C++? or it is another OOP?
13:30 Calinou it uses OOP but in a reasonable manner
13:30 Volkj i see
13:30 Calinou Terasology is a whole new level
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13:34 Fixer RBA's mtr_5 brunch was already very slow, giving me only 30 fps
13:35 Calinou if we actually used modern OpenGL features and removed bottlenecks, we could have like a 40-50% performance improvement I guess
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13:37 Fixer Calinou: there is PR#3770 that can add lots of performance for some users (including me), but it has bugs unfortunately
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17:04 Taoki [16:08:58] <Calinou> Taoki: if getting close to Terasology's graphics means making it unplayable on all current hardware…
17:04 Taoki No, it doesn't. A good 3D engine can make every visual improvement optional.
17:04 Calinou Terasology lead dev admitted his game is unplayable with a GTX 1080 at max settings :)
17:04 Taoki Xonotic / Darkplaces is a great example: It has quite morern graphics, but every modern feature can be toggled off. You can even disable 3D models for items, which will appear as floating sprites... and render the walls as simple untextured colors
17:05 KaadmY Taoki: and that same engine is still compatible with vanilla quake :P
17:05 Calinou yeah but DarkPlaces isn't as fast as eg. ezQuake on really poor hardware
17:06 Calinou ezQuake can run on netbooks, DarkPlaces can't
17:06 Taoki KaadmY: Exactly :)
17:06 Calinou so we need to make a choice: drop netbook support or not
17:06 Volkj next, irrlicht is deprecated and doom3 engine is put on minetest
17:06 Taoki Well it can't go below a certain limit. Though I think with everything disabled, it can have about the same specs as Minetest
17:06 Taoki Volkj: lol, if only :)
17:07 Taoki Though nah... I'm fine with idTech 4 for The Dark Mod thank you.
17:08 Volkj did celeron55 started a new game with a different engine?
17:08 KaadmY i have a computer that's probably about as slow as a netbook
17:09 KaadmY and MT runs very badly since 0.4.14
17:09 Void7 Taoki: buildat?
17:09 Calinou yes, Buildat, but it was never finished
17:09 Calinou KaadmY: Minetest needs a remake IMO :|
17:09 Calinou it's a mess
17:09 Calinou it's the Wikipedia of voxel games
17:09 KaadmY Calinou: ikr :[
17:09 KaadmY even buildat isn't very good
17:10 KaadmY terasology has an incredible backend imo(never used it though; too slow)
17:10 Void7 buildat itself isn't even a voxel game
17:11 Void7 i think
17:11 Taoki Woah, never knew of Buildat
17:11 Taoki https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCgTNHndNCM It has good graphics one must admit
17:12 hmmmm why does "minetest need a remake"?
17:12 Volkj terasology seems to have GSOC, maybe it can be good also for minetest
17:12 Taoki Though if it wouldn't be compatible with Minetest mods, I'd probably have a hard time getting into it
17:12 Taoki Eh... not a total remake. I think it just needs more momentum to advance.
17:13 Taoki Remake means redoing what's already there. Most of what's there is good, or just in need of fixing and improvements.
17:13 Markow Considering MT is coded in C++ w/ Lua, it should perform much faster than it does
17:13 Taoki What does need a remake is probably the renderer and definitely the lighting system, but we've been through that already :P
17:13 Void7 also minetest's health system (and everything else pretty much) is very messy IMO
17:13 Void7 the server handles damage, but the client handles damaging nodes
17:14 Void7 ^ afaik
17:14 hmmmm needs more dedicated developers who want to work on these big things, not just a small contribution to fix some code style or add support for systemd or something like that
17:23 Calinou hmmmm: it's horribly unoptimized for starters
17:23 hmmmm really?
17:24 Volkj as it misses a tutorial for people that just started?
17:24 Calinou both on client (can't have steady 60 FPS on Windows with a GTX 960M) and on server (frequent stutters, stalling)
17:25 Calinou I don't feel like contributing to Minetest core, because people will constantly argue against you
17:25 Calinou it's a toxic mentality that's just not present in other open source projectd
17:25 Calinou like, Godot
17:25 Calinou https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pulls - 72 open, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls - 128 open :P
17:25 Volkj imho it's the whole "it's an engine, not a game" argument
17:26 hmmmm right, it must be the number of open pull requests, nothing to do with the shitty rendering pipeline
17:26 Calinou Godot is not a game, it's an engine too :)
17:26 Volkj i see
17:26 Calinou hmmmm: if we improve rendering pipeline, either you need to implement 15 fallbacks for those people with netbooks, or deal with "it doesn't work" complaints
17:27 xunto The worst part of minetest thet should be reworked(replaced :D) is irrlicht :/
17:27 xunto *that
17:27 Calinou Irrlicht is fine, I mean, you can do OpenGL 4.x with it
17:27 Calinou it's not the most optimized engine ever but it's ok for our purposes
17:27 Calinou that said, Irrlicht's default GUI system is a wreck
17:27 Calinou replacing it would be nice
17:28 Calinou (it's not suited to high-DPI displays, it looks ugly…)
17:28 hmmmm look; don't make completely unqualified claims about why minetest is jittery
17:28 hmmmm read the code, try different things, understand what the issues are
17:29 xunto Fonts work bad. Some nodes(like replaced textnode) doesn't work with freetype. Colorted text doesn't work with non-freetype(but it's minetest issue, am I right?) :/
17:30 Calinou font rendering isn't great indeed, I don't know why, we could use a better default font
17:30 xunto >Fonts work bad
17:30 xunto I mean rendering.
17:30 Calinou we should just force Freetype, so that we don't deal with non-Freetype
17:30 Calinou there is no reason to use bitmap fonts in 2016
17:30 Calinou operating systems stopped doing this for 15 years at least
17:30 Calinou games for ~10 years
17:30 Calinou (with rare exceptions, eg. texts with gradients or shadows)
17:30 xunto Calinou: there is one reason for bitmap
17:30 xunto Ю(08:30:13 PM) Calinou: font rendering isn't great indeed
17:31 xunto *>
17:31 Calinou font rendering can be decent with a dynamic font system
17:31 xunto Atleast this :D
17:31 xunto And, by the way, some people like bitmap fonts.
17:32 xunto Because they are drawn in different size manually
17:32 xunto *sizes
17:32 xunto And thats why they can look better
17:34 Calinou https://lut.im/gallery#qm1bEQjdK5/Uz1Lp5X0mC8OYnbZ.png,k5k6MdIKok/JQ1lZs54tKdYIsBB.png,AL3wJLFxjb/Nd​7YmT5CLFLyrOeH.png,3oqFbNAHfC/L3z4zOGPmpi2tuLn.png
17:34 Calinou this is all dynamic font
17:34 Calinou those are technically redrawn at every size change, so they are "pre-drawn" in some way
17:35 xunto What do you mean by "dinamyc"? vector?
17:36 Calinou it's bitmap, but rendered whenever needed from a .ttf or .otf file.
17:36 Calinou so, it's exactly what Freetype does
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17:50 Fixer Calinou: you know... with that shitty freetype rendering of fonts linux, I would better use bitmap ones
17:50 Calinou Fixer: then use proper font rendering settings
17:50 Fixer Calinou: no metter what I changed, it still sucked in some places
17:51 Calinou https://lut.im/aDtZtWRT1g/gwonvFzMOXZzwogN.png
17:51 Calinou looks great here, as good as a Mac (Roboto 11)
17:51 Calinou hinting is disabled, RGB subpixel is used
17:51 Fixer Calinou: yes, here looks descent
17:51 Calinou much better than Windows :P
17:52 Fixer Calinou: there is another shit, QT renders differently :/
17:52 Calinou even on GTK+ you can get it right
17:52 Calinou eg. with Xfce
17:52 Calinou also try the Infinality patches
17:53 Fixer Calinou: ahaha, yeah right, in linux distros i need to have sex with fonts in 2016
17:54 Calinou Infinality is not hard to install on Arch :)
17:54 Calinou but here I don't use it
17:54 Calinou problem is, some font smoothing algorithms are patented
17:54 Calinou so Fedora doesn't have them for example
17:54 Fixer i'm still waiting for good fonts by default
17:54 Calinou on Antergos KDE, only saner defaults would be required for good fonts by default
17:55 Calinou but it's true that people do judge systems a lot based on the default font rendering…
17:55 Calinou and then you get those hardcore developers who claim "MY FONT IS ALL OR NOTHING!!" and pisses on your anti-aliasing :|
17:56 Fixer Calinou: why can't they include font patches used in ubuntu?
17:57 Fixer Calinou: i don't, it is just my eyes start to bleed
17:57 Calinou who, Fedora? they can't, patents
17:57 Calinou Arch already has Freetype stuff for smoothing already
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18:03 Fixer Calinou: ubuntu uses patch with patented tecnologies?
18:04 Calinou yes
18:04 Calinou Ubuntu does not care about patents
18:04 Calinou Fedora is the only "mainstream" distribution that does
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23:39 deaf_fish Does anyone know if you can store metadata in craftitems?
23:39 deaf_fish For mods
23:40 deaf_fish Im trying to figure out how to do a key to unlock door thing
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23:47 Volkj isn't the chest a craftitem that has metadata?
23:48 deaf_fish Ill check
23:48 deaf_fish I though it only had metadata in the world
23:50 deaf_fish looks like it just stores stuff in the world
23:50 deaf_fish you need to remove all the items to pick it up
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