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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-11-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 who_wants_some o_O
00:02 who_wants_some O_o
00:03 who_wants_some vision is better now
00:04 who_wants_some ugh, every time i look at servers.mt.net I see Xanadu with <2hr uptime, why so unstable?
00:07 who_wants_some LinuxGaming still has that max_lag problem, wth...
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00:38 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mgfractal: Move julia set selection into formula parameter c24f3b0 http://git.io/vBUcd (2015-11-23T00:34:09Z)
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00:43 calimer Great job with minetest, I've been having a lot of fun today with adventuretest :)
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01:22 LazyJ Idk what is causing the crazy high max_lag. Another server on the server list has a lag of 1308. There are a few others with lag well over 100.
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01:37 afflatus mapgen v6 is seriously starting to annoy me
01:37 afflatus Is there any guidance as to which of the mapgen_* aliases actually get used?
01:38 afflatus They don't seem to have any effect on trees
01:38 afflatus If I remove default:tree I just get holes, regardless of what aliases I set. :-(
01:44 afflatus I shall take it that nobody here either knows or cares
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01:54 hoodedice afflatus, best people to ask are hmmmm or paramat
01:54 hoodedice most people here are not well versed in mapgens
01:55 afflatus Thanks hoodedice
01:57 afflatus I'll go focus on some more rewarding problem ;-)
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02:28 paramat afflatus https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/mapgen_v6.cpp#L86 plus junglegrass and https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/treegen.cpp#L41 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/treegen.cpp#L659 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/treegen.cpp#L758
02:29 hoodedice ohaiyo param =D
02:31 afflatus Thanks paramat - what are you doing still awake?
02:31 afflatus ;-)
02:31 hoodedice fixing bugs =)
02:31 paramat oyasumi nasai
02:32 hoodedice watashi wa amerikaijin desu
02:33 afflatus kahrl: I want to /try/ to support all possible options.
02:33 afflatus Someone eventually will create a map with trees enabled.
02:33 kahrl afflatus: I see, so the trees are in an optional mod?
02:34 afflatus No, mapgen has options in minetest.conf , unless I missed something.
02:35 kahrl afflatus: but then your subgame has to define appropriate nodes for trees anyway. Am I missing something?
02:36 afflatus OK, so I just need to figure why the aliases don't work where I set them - clearly they are used.
02:36 kahrl ahh I completely misunderstood the problem :P
02:36 afflatus kahrl: I'm not explaining well ue to tiredness.
02:37 kahrl nah, I just reread your original question and got it now
02:37 afflatus The nodes are set, just not in default, so I have set aliases of the form mapgen_
02:39 kahrl maybe some other mod is redefining the aliases to something bad
02:47 afflatus Even weirder, now I have leaves but no trunks. Better check the trunks definition.
02:47 afflatus Getting somewhere, however :-)
02:48 afflatus kahrl, I don't think so. I could grep everyting just in case.
02:49 * afflatus slaps himself
02:51 afflatus I made a pretty damn stupid wood-for-the-trees error
02:51 afflatus Sorry everyone
02:55 paramat good to see a solution
02:55 afflatus Reading the source may help solve some other little issues
02:55 afflatus My deserts seem to be lacking a top layer of sand
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03:01 paramat highland mgv6 desert is bare stone
03:04 afflatus Is that supposed to leave an ugly boundary with grassland?
03:04 afflatus I seem to remember having to fix this in v7, which was relatively easy
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03:06 paramat yes the dithered boundary with grass is normal for mgv6
03:06 paramat it's ugly yes
03:06 afflatus like this? http://imgur.com/w2isZX6
03:07 afflatus Ignore the junglegrass
03:07 afflatus I take it there is nothing I can do about that then?
03:08 paramat yes is normal
03:08 paramat you would need to alter mgv6 c++ code
03:08 afflatus Oh good :|
03:08 paramat biomes are hard coded in mgv6
03:08 afflatus Right now #cantfix will do
03:09 paramat but you can remove the dither by disabling 'biome blend' in flags
03:10 paramat for a straight-edge of grass
03:10 afflatus Then I get straight edges
03:10 afflatus One of the things I like most is the biome blend
03:12 paramat perhaps use the decorations API to place desert sand on exposed desert stone
03:13 afflatus That's an idea.
03:14 afflatus Right now I just want to do some minimal adjustments so that v6 is usable.
03:15 afflatus Having just spent a month getting v5/v7 to look fairly spectacular, my patience with v6 is lacking ;-)
03:17 afflatus Thanks for helping me unstick my brain on this paramat
03:20 afflatus Also I now know for sure that it is unhandled CONTENT_IGNORE nodes that crash mapgen
03:22 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default/mapgen: Retune cactus density due to low density fix abf0ca9 http://git.io/vBUPp (2015-11-23T03:19:11Z)
03:22 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default/trees: Make 'can grow' public to enable over-riding 135d80e http://git.io/vBUPh (2015-11-23T03:19:00Z)
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06:52 sofar hmmm, how can I convince mgv6 to have a different water level by default? setting only waterlevel = N in map_meta.txt just causes it to be overwritten :(
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07:13 Calinou hahaha, I received an e-mail of some person offering to hire me
07:13 Calinou "We have analyzed your open source contributions on Github and have concluded that your experience could be a good fit for the position of Full stack Developer…"
07:18 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
07:24 sofar get used to it
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07:27 fling Where is PilzAdam?
07:27 fling !seen PilzAdam
07:27 MinetestBot fling: pilzadam was last seen at 2015-11-11 18:49:35 UTC on #minetest
07:28 sofar left a bit ago
07:28 fling What do you mean left?
07:28 sofar signed off, nothing special
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10:17 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Fibonacci Day! 😃
10:18 Elench Same to you, because 11/23?
10:21 Ingar I have to admit, I work near Brussels, it's a weird morning
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15:33 E4xoi :D
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16:21 Jookia Are there any good digging strategies out there given how deep the world is?
16:21 est31 sneak elevator? that's the most efficient
16:22 Krock yup, a 1x2 hole with steps on one shaft wall
16:22 Krock travelnet's elevators are very helpful - of you're looking for a mod
16:22 Krock s/of/if/
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16:22 Jookia Okay, is there a mod to shorten the world height?
16:23 Obani Jookia : or if there is /home or /spawn command, you can just do vertical digging and put some water source in the end. Then just /home or /spawn and it's good :p
16:23 Krock Just stop digging at -1050m
16:23 Obani Jookia, Yes, you can add map limits
16:23 Jookia Krock: -1050m?
16:23 Krock oh right, this has revently been added
16:24 Krock Jookia, -1024m to reqach mese blocks, some blocks down to have space
16:24 Krock god, the keyboard doesn't like me today
16:24 Jookia Ah. Well that's good - I was worried I'd be 2 bytes down and not find anything
16:24 Krock !c 2**16
16:24 MinetestBot 65536
16:25 Jookia ;)
16:25 Krock you can't dig down to 65.5km
16:25 Krock limit is somewhere near 31k
16:25 Jookia Oh really? Interesting
16:25 Krock but as Obani already said, you can limit that too
16:26 Jookia Also, this may be a weird question - how hostile is the community towards copyleft mods?
16:26 Obani Let me find it :p
16:26 Obani Jookia, what does copyleft mean ?
16:26 Jookia Obani: Umm, GPL licensed. Or CC-BY-SA
16:26 est31 Jookia, not very hostile I think
16:26 est31 as long as it is free by OSI definition
16:26 Obani Well most people use WTFPL
16:26 Krock WTFPL is quite spread ehre
16:26 Krock nuuh, got ninja0d
16:27 Obani But some use GPL3 GPL, CC-BY-SA,....
16:27 Jookia Neato
16:27 Obani After all you can do whatever you want, but the more restrictive a license will be for users/modders, the more it will annoy them :p
16:27 Krock Jookia, check out this minetest.conf setting: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1021
16:28 est31 note that that limit limits the other directions too
16:28 est31 better is something more bedrock-like
16:28 Jookia Interesting- does the limit 'compress' it so mesecons is at the bottom?
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16:29 Krock there are no mesecons at all
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16:30 Krock the map just stops generating at this depth - like a knife
16:30 Krock cuts away everything around
16:30 Obani Weren't MT maps infinite at first ?
16:30 Krock define infinite
16:31 Obani "the only limit is the power of your computer, and your room to storage the map"
16:31 Krock also the read and write speed
16:32 Krock somewhen you will touch sqlite3's limits
16:32 Jookia The system I play Minetest on can barely handle it as it is :P
16:32 Obani Krock, speed isn't important if you can reach it :p
16:32 Krock Obani, #satelites ..
16:33 Darcidride sqlite3 ? convert your maps into postgresql/redis/mysql-mariadb, but sadly this map format isn't well supported by Minetest...
16:33 Krock there's also leveldb
16:33 Jookia I'm lucky to get 35fps on low on my setup :D
16:33 Krock if you have infinite RAM and a stable computer, I'd suggest to run it on the dummmy backend
16:34 Krock Jookia, limited FPS to 30 here.. with this I notice the lag spikes less
16:34 Darcidride the default backend for minetest should be mysql or mariadb :'(
16:34 Obani Jookia, you can also use this mod https://github.com/MinetestForFun/server-​minetestforfun/tree/master/mods/worldedge
16:34 Jookia Krock: Interesting, maybe I should try that. What system are you on?
16:34 Krock Darcidride, devs would be glad about your code to implement them
16:35 Obani It teleports you to the opposite of the map when you reach its end
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16:35 Jookia Obani: Interesting!
16:35 Krock Jookia, Athlon 4000+ 2.4 GHz (currently at 804 MHz) with a Radion X300
16:35 Krock s/i/o/
16:35 Darcidride ahah, i code alreayd enough to improve Minetest... https://github.com/MinetestForFun
16:36 Krock Minetest ain't fun
16:36 Jookia Krock: Whoa, what brings you to that setup?
16:36 Obani Darcidride, don't forget ElectronLibre
16:36 Obani :p
16:36 Krock Jookia, an old mainbord, perhaps?
16:36 Darcidride All of the MFF team are great devs, anyway the goal if to improve Minetest
16:37 Darcidride is to*
16:37 Jookia Krock: a 2005 card though?
16:38 Krock Jookia, could be.. just a regular desktop PC I got some years ago
16:38 Jookia I see
16:38 Obani Krock, Minetest ain't fun ? so what are you ? a depressive man ? quit this channle lol :p
16:38 Krock Obani, sarcasm, you know?
16:38 Obani channel* my keyboard doesn't love me too :'(
16:38 Jookia I have two machines - one with no 3D graphics, one with integrated laptop graphics from 2009
16:38 Obani Krock, well that was some too :p
16:38 Krock Don't take everything serious ;)
16:39 Krock Jookia, overclock it, then cool, using liquid nitrogen
16:39 Obani everything is serious !
16:39 Everything I'm serious !
16:39 Krock I'm eating Everything.
16:40 Everything gargllglglg
16:40 * Everything dies
16:40 Krock Okay, perhaps not Everything, but much food
16:40 * Everything revives
16:40 Krock That was a quick boot, Everything!
16:40 Jookia Krock: Hah, I've replaced the thermal paste already. Not sure I could get more performance out of a hacked thinkpad t400. Though I'd be really interested if my main machine (no 3D graphics) will be able to run Minetest one day. Perhaps the drivers will be usable for gaming by 2020
16:40 * Everything is Everything
16:41 Krock 0 = 0
16:41 Everything true
16:41 Krock Jookia, had to do the same here - CPU and north bridge kept overheating
16:41 Obani stop trolling
16:41 Obani I'm serious
16:41 Jookia what
16:41 Obani that was trolling
16:42 Krock Obani, african children organisations need donations - give them your free time
16:42 Obani Do they have a mumble server ?
16:43 Krock No idea
16:43 Obani Well so that's a no
16:45 Krock !c 'Answer of everything is ' + str(2 * 6 * 7 / 2)
16:45 MinetestBot 'Answer of everything is 42.0'
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16:48 Krock *checks http://isitweekendyet.com/ *
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16:53 Servuc Hello
16:53 Krock Hello
16:54 Servuc I've a little question, multi-world (or multi-universe) is ready ?
16:54 Obani I don't think so :/
16:54 Servuc Or it's possible to create it with LUA ?
16:54 Krock https://github.com/mniip/LUA
16:54 Krock It's Lua. Lua. Lua.
16:55 Servuc And what's more with this ?
16:55 Krock There are some map generation mods, based on Minetest's Lua API that can generate moon terrain
16:55 Jookia Is there a progress report on muilti-world stuff?
16:56 sfan5 multiple worlds on one server are not supported
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16:57 sfan5 and you can't do that using Lua
16:57 Servuc Thank you sdan4
16:57 Servuc Thank you sfan5 *
16:57 Jookia Are there plans for this?
16:58 Servuc Multi-world like in Minecraft for our future server
16:58 Obani Servuc, but you can still use tweaks, like generating worlds at heights like -29000 :p (nether does it)
16:58 sfan5 plans? not really
16:59 Obani Actually the work is mostly on typos #troll
16:59 Servuc @Obani : Yes it's a solution
16:59 Servuc Else can i disconnect player from one server to reconnect him to another programmaticaly ?
16:59 Servuc (Or instance of server)
17:00 Obani no, you can just disconnect
17:00 Obani You can't redirect a  client to another server
17:00 Servuc Aïe Aïe ^^
17:01 Obani Servuc, that seems logical to me
17:01 Obani It would need to disconnect the client from the server
17:01 Obani And if the client could be manipulated without being on a server,...
17:02 Servuc It seem like realms :)
17:02 Jookia It'd be interesting to have something like that so you can divide sections between servers
17:04 Servuc And map limit cannot be override ?
17:05 Servuc A fake multi-world on map extremity
17:05 sfan5 is -30000 to 30000 not big enough?
17:05 sofar it's only 16 bit argh
17:05 Servuc I just imagine ;)
17:06 sofar should have done 21-bits x3 packed in 64 bit
17:06 sfan5 !c 2**21
17:06 MinetestBot 2097152
17:06 sfan5 !c 21*
17:06 MinetestBot SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
17:06 sfan5 !c 21*3
17:06 MinetestBot 63
17:06 sofar that would have allowed +/-524288 in every direction
17:07 sofar plus an extra bit!
17:07 sofar !c 2^21
17:07 MinetestBot 23
17:07 sofar lel
17:07 sofar !c power(2, 21)
17:07 MinetestBot NameError: name 'power' is not defined
17:07 sofar meh
17:07 Servuc ^^
17:08 Jookia Surely -30000 to 30000 is big enough
17:09 sofar one of my personal worlds is already 10km^2 in minecraft
17:09 sofar that's not even a serious attempt
17:09 sofar so I can see people complaining about 30km limits
17:09 sofar but but
17:09 sofar multi-world support would really make it enough
17:10 sofar but but
17:10 sofar that's not supported :(
17:10 Servuc It's just an idea ;)
17:10 Jookia Increasing the world limit would be how tricky
17:11 sofar can't, it would be a protocol version change
17:11 sfan5 sofar: what do you think what ** does
17:11 Jookia What other problems would there be
17:11 Jookia Aside from protocol changes
17:12 sfan5 Jookia: you need to touch looooots of code (read: the majority of code)
17:12 Jookia Yikes
17:12 sofar sfan5: I had not seen ** as an operator before, shrug
17:13 Obani Servuc, you can still make a mod that limits the world edge with some teleports or walls, so you can use other parts of the world for other "dimensions"
17:13 Servuc Nevertheless, this game is very very incredible, minecraft suck near minetest ;)
17:13 sfan5 sofar: it's python
17:13 Jookia Obani: It wouldn't be 'enough'
17:13 sofar sfan5: foul language ;^)
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17:13 sfan5 sofar: ^ is not universally pow too, in C-like languages ^ is XOR
17:13 Servuc Obani : My brother and me have imagine this possiblility
17:14 sofar C has no power() operator
17:14 sofar although you can <<
17:14 sofar 2<<21 lol
17:14 Obani Servuc, I don't agree with you : Minecraft is still better than Minetest
17:15 Obani Cause Minecraft is more thought as a game than as an engine
17:15 Jookia Is Minetest the most popular voxel game alternative to Minetest?
17:15 Jookia alternative to Minecraft*
17:15 Obani Jookia, yes, but there is a lot
17:15 sofar well minetest in itself is more like a SDK
17:15 Obani If you have a good computer, try terasology
17:15 sofar sadly, the default installation without mods is ... bleak ...
17:15 Jookia I don't have a good computer
17:15 Servuc Obani : I'm opensource lover. So change JAR file, i hate it.
17:16 Servuc Obani : Yes a very cool SDK :)
17:16 Jookia sofar: True, but the engine seems to be a bit limited
17:16 Jookia Servuc: Still, limitations mean clever hacks
17:16 Jookia No idea why I spoke to two people
17:16 sofar Jookia: on the contrary, the MT engine can do many things that are useful that MC can not do
17:16 Jookia Shouldn't IRC while debugging firewalls at 4am
17:17 sofar client-side mods are nonexistant because Minetest won't ever need them
17:17 Jookia sofar: What about server switching mods then? For multiple worlds ;)
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17:17 Jookia sofar: I feel like that'd be one somewhat useful feature
17:17 sofar each server can have it's own mods
17:18 Servuc Last question : Can I make colored light in Minetest ? Or a lamp near a colored glass is the solution ?
17:18 Jookia Oh! That reminds me, I wish mod downloads were a bit more organized
17:18 Krock Servuc, light is white. You can't change that yet.
17:18 TheWild Servuc, not supported (yet?)
17:18 sofar there's no colored glass, really, although I might add some to xpanes but it won't change the light color
17:19 Krock Jookia, there was a mod database - currently offline
17:19 Servuc I've made colored glass ;)
17:19 sofar Jookia: yep, github exploration - but at least you're not downloading obtuse JAR files
17:19 Jookia Krock: Oh, not that- I mean when downloading, it'd be nice to only allow freely licensed stuff rather than having to vet servers
17:19 sofar Servuc: colored glass, where?
17:20 Servuc Sofar : personnal mod ;)
17:20 TheWild sofar, there is colored glass... but this is alpha-channel based (the same crap like in MC). "Subtractive" glass not supported (yet?)
17:20 sofar Servuc: github it?
17:20 Krock Jookia, it's kinda hard to tell if something's free or not
17:20 Servuc Just PNG with Alpha and some détail ;)
17:20 Servuc @sofar, wait 2 3 hours, I add this on my Github.com/Servuc
17:20 Krock pngcrush/optipng afterwards.
17:21 Jookia Krock: Exactly, so it'd be nice if there was some kind of metadata passed along. I mean technically if someone sends me a CC-BY texture without attributing isn't that a license violation? :P
17:21 sofar ah, I might add those blocks to my mcimport.py work
17:21 sofar been looking for carpet, stained glass, stained clay and hardened clay blocks
17:22 Krock Jookia, metadata.. in textures?
17:22 Jookia Krock: With the downloads of them
17:22 TheWild PNG can have some metadata AFAIK
17:23 Krock but is it transferred with the up- and download?
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17:23 thePalindrome PNG can have custom sections
17:25 * TheWild ensures whether PNG do support metadata
17:26 TheWild ok, there is metadata. And yes, this should be transferred by the server because it is contained in the .png file.
17:29 Jookia Is there a way to use that clientside to display licensing details
17:30 thePalindrome If you parsed the image yourself, yes
17:30 Jookia But that would mean people would need to insert metadata in to their images
17:30 TheWild aha, dig this specific file from the cache
17:33 Ingar and a million pieces of software will crash in terror because they don't support PNG tags
17:33 Ingar (jk, quite possible though)
17:35 luizrpgluiz left #minetest
17:35 thePalindrome If the PNG section isn't understood, it'll skip it
17:35 thePalindrome A custom PNG will not break any sane parser
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17:36 sofar patch your local libpng to reject any image without proper licensing tags
17:36 sofar lol
17:36 sofar what kind of crusade against images do you intend to start?
17:37 thePalindrome Me? none, I just jumped in the convo
17:37 sofar I was addressing Jookia  :^)
17:38 Jookia Rather not violate too many licenses
17:38 thePalindrome Ah, I see that line
17:38 thePalindrome You'd be safe
17:38 sofar that's only a problem if you redistribute
17:38 thePalindrome Its like downloading a movie from youtube
17:38 thePalindrome it's legal for you, but not the uploader
17:38 thePalindrome unless the uploader says that the movie is copyright someone else
17:38 sofar if you make a mod, you better ask everyone where they got their textures
17:39 sofar personally, I just made all my textures from scratch, which is easier and more fun anyway
17:39 Jookia sofar: I feel like it shouldn't be so hard to figure out if I have free content in my game install or not. I don't want to join servers that have things I can't share
17:40 sofar Jookia: why would you share stuff that your client has cached?
17:40 Wuzzy joined #minetest
17:40 sofar that doesn't make sense. Just run /mods on the server and go to the source of their mods
17:40 Jookia sofar: Copying game to family members
17:40 Jookia sofar: To avoid big downloads
17:40 sofar so you're distributing to your kids?
17:40 thePalindrome don't forget fair use (if you are in the US)
17:40 sofar OMG THE CRIME RING YOU HAVE CREATED!!!!!
17:40 Jookia uhh
17:40 sofar (sorry for caps)
17:41 Jookia ok then]
17:41 sofar I ... honestly think you're paranoid a bit. Listen, it's good to be cautious
17:41 Jookia If you're not going to take my concerns seriously I don't really want to have this conversation
17:41 sofar but if your cousin could download it himself legally, you're not going to get served by "seeding his cache" (no pun intended)
17:42 sofar financial gain? it's open source and free.
17:43 Jookia Joining a server on Minetest, it's hard to tell if what you've downloaded is open source or free
17:43 sofar Jookia: you are 100% correct about that
17:44 sofar it's unclear and likely extremely hard to verify that it's redistributable
17:44 Jookia There's no real way to play Minetest and guarantee it's still free or open source
17:44 thePalindrome But you are not liable for it
17:44 Krock It could be illegal meterial
17:44 Krock Report it to the NSA
17:45 sofar Jookia: even if it was possible to find out that info, it's perfectly OK for a server to have proprietary and copyrighted textures
17:46 Jookia sofar: Yes it is, but not informing the people using the server of licensing stuff is bad
17:46 sofar actually
17:46 Jookia I'd like to not play on servers that have nonfree textures, and there's no real way to do that aside from hosting your own server
17:46 adarsh_tr joined #minetest
17:46 sofar that's incorrect. it's not a legal requirement that you inform users connected to a server that stuff is copyrighted
17:46 Jookia Uh
17:46 Jookia Did I just miss something
17:47 sofar you can't force people to have written copyright statements on everything
17:47 Jookia I.. don't want to?
17:47 sofar copyright is implied in most countries anyway
17:47 sofar I think what you want is a "server pledge" type of thing
17:47 thePalindrome @Jookia tl;dr don't worry, Fair Use has you covered in 99% of cases
17:47 thePalindrome The 1% would get thrown out anyway
17:48 Jookia sofar: That'd be interesting
17:48 Jookia thePalindrome: Does fair use cover using it in my own work?
17:48 thePalindrome In a few cases
17:48 thePalindrome what's the work?
17:48 sofar "I, admin of evil underground server realm, declare only to use freely (re)distributable assets on this server"
17:48 Ingar Jookia: that's your problem, you made a derived work without checking the origin
17:48 Jookia Ingar: No I didn't
17:49 sofar Jookia: fair use does generally NOT cover "redistribution without modification" as part of another work
17:49 Ingar Jookia: If you make a derived work of a texture downloaded from a random server, without copyright info
17:49 sofar unless it's transformative, or a few other things ... complex legality
17:49 Jookia I'd like to only play on servers that run free culture that I can remix, share and use the stuff I download from them
17:50 sofar your best bet is to ask the server admins
17:50 Jookia There's not really a way to do that :\ There's also not a way for distributors to inform me of licensing
17:50 Ingar I rest my case
17:50 sofar sure, they can tell you which mods they use
17:50 Jookia sofar: There's no automated way of doing this?
17:50 sofar server admin: here, have these textures, I can legally give them to you
17:51 sofar game player: can I distribute them?
17:51 sofar server admin: I'd have to check for each thing I gave you
17:52 STHGOM joined #minetest
17:52 Jookia Shouldn't server admins know about licensing and deliver appropriate licensing notices?
17:52 sofar not really possible. I mean, some things could be automated. But very little assets have properly uniformly standard embedded tags with licensing and copyright info
17:52 Ingar Jookia: server admins usually don't care, they jsut want to run a game server
17:52 sofar Jookia: absolutely. Which is why on my server I know what mods I run and what license they are
17:52 Jookia Maybe it's something that could be worked on?
17:52 thePalindrome There's no way to feasibly do that
17:52 Jookia I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to query /mods and have a whitelist
17:53 sofar the server admin should fix that, not minetest
17:53 thePalindrome But what if a proprietary mod uses the same id as a free one?
17:53 sofar yup
17:53 Jookia sofar: Server admins have no way to indicate the copyright details as of the current version
17:53 sofar or the mod is AGPL and the server owner has made changes to it
17:53 Jookia Sounds like there's lots of licensing violations :\
17:54 sofar not necessarily
17:54 Jookia Am I actually able to comply with licenses - what could I do when someone joins my servers?
17:54 sofar the vast majority of minetest mods is 100% legal to use on servers
17:54 Jookia Do I have a way to list copyright holders, do attribution, list times of modification, etc
17:55 sofar great questions
17:55 Jookia That's generally CC-BY stuff
17:55 thePalindrome Not for certain
17:55 sofar each license may require you to do things differently
17:55 thePalindrome times can be faked, anything can
17:55 sofar however, because most of the mod content is _not_ shown interactively, you don't need to display licenses
17:55 Jookia sofar: Does CC-BY make a definition of interactively?
17:56 sofar CC-BY is different, IANAL but I do not believe that a minetest server requires attribution to be displayed
17:56 sofar even minecraft contains CC_BY content
17:56 Ingar baiscly, you want to be lazy, and have other people figure out copyright issues for you
17:56 sofar do you see it in-game?
17:56 Calinou yeah, it has Freesounds
17:56 Jookia but surely one of the texture mods i have
17:56 Calinou but they've been working on removing it
17:57 sofar nope, you don't
17:57 Jookia sofar: Probably in the credits somewhere
17:57 Calinou (as of 1.4, only a few sounds remain from Freesound)
17:57 Jookia sofar: But as a server owner I don't have a credits I can refer people to
17:57 LazyJ joined #minetest
17:57 sofar Jookia: but they're distributed as part of minecraft
17:57 Calinou Jookia, now you know why attribution is evil ;)
17:57 sofar Jookia: mods are *not* part of the minetest binary or content
17:57 Ingar didn't freesound have these weird license that are NOT CC-BY ?
17:57 Jookia sofar: Yes but I'm still distributing them from my server
17:57 Jookia sofar: What do *I* do
17:58 sofar Jookia: correct
17:58 thePalindrome Jookia: Don't worry
17:58 thePalindrome You can't really be held liable
17:58 thePalindrome if it's a public server, just list an "abuse" email
17:58 Jookia sofar: Is there a way to give licensing information to people from a server? Or any kind of MOTD?
17:58 sofar motd, yes, that exists
17:59 Jookia Can I shove a whole bunch of attribution in a MOTD?
17:59 thePalindrome Yeah, but it'll piss some people off
17:59 Jookia thePalindrome: I don't care
17:59 sofar server.conf
17:59 sofar motd = ......
17:59 Calinou we have MOTD and server description
18:00 Calinou neither allow multiline messages to my knowledge
18:00 Jookia Oh
18:00 sofar you can just point it to a URL with license info
18:00 Jookia Maybe Minetest could incorporate a big box in some update for these types of information - a credits perhaps?
18:00 Calinou I'd like to have a server_contact property where admin can list an e-mail for contact
18:00 Calinou QuakeWorld (mvdsv) does this
18:00 Jookia Calinou: That could fit in a 'credits' section
18:02 Jookia Maybe I should do a feature request on the forum for this?
18:02 Calinou will never happen.
18:02 Calinou Jookia, you do realize Minetest used to contain this sentence on the website?
18:02 Jookia I don't know, I could probably post it sometime
18:02 sofar you can push a formspec to every new player
18:02 sofar and display any text you want
18:02 Jookia sofar: Interesting! Maybe I'll use that
18:02 sofar even with "OK, I Accept" buttongs
18:03 Calinou "celeron55 hates OOP zealots, FOSS zealots, smalltack, perfectionism and noobs. Better not go there if you are one of them."
18:03 sofar Calinou: easy enough to do in a mod
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18:04 Jookia But I still might do a feature request if it doesn't work out well enough
18:04 Jookia It'd be really nice to be able to fulfill these obligations
18:04 thePalindrome You aren't obligated to do that
18:04 thePalindrome If you got everything in good faith, you're good
18:04 Jookia thePalindrome: I'm morally obligated
18:04 sofar I've actually seen servers already do it for user behavior stuff (e.g. don't destroy other peoples stuff)
18:05 Jookia It'd still be nice if mods could include a copyright file, similiar to Debian packages
18:06 sofar they already do
18:06 Jookia sofar: They have a file that lists each file's copyright status and license?
18:07 Jookia sofar: And it's machine readable?
18:07 sofar sure they do. I've used dozens of mods and they all carefully list licensing info
18:07 sofar nope, none machine readable. don't care about that. almost impossible to have it that way anyway.
18:07 Jookia sofar: It's not really that impossible though - Debian does it
18:07 sofar trust me I deal with that stuff at work on a daily basis
18:07 Jookia It's kind of a solved problem when it comes to packaging
18:07 sofar someone, at debian, writes it down
18:08 Jookia Yeah
18:08 Jookia Not machine generated
18:08 Jookia Machine readable
18:08 sofar *that* part, the writing down part, is the *manual* verification step needed to make sure it's open source
18:08 sofar everyone needs to do that
18:08 Jookia Yep, but it makes it easier to verify
18:08 sofar you can't just blindly trust license information to be correct, or complete
18:08 sofar nope, doesn't. it's only a trap if you do
18:09 Jookia sofar: You're saying having a list of files + which licenses they're under supplied by the author doesn't make it easier to verify?
18:09 Calinou Jookia, we currently don't have extended mod metadata
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18:09 Calinou I would like to have some kind, it could be JSON or something like that
18:09 sofar "ooh look shiny new mod with gpl Lua code, *downloads*" -> contained copied PNG from Microsmack.com
18:09 Calinou mod.json :)
18:09 Calinou name, description, dependencies, license(s), version
18:09 Jookia sofar: ..Yes?
18:09 thePalindrome What if you lied in the mod.json?
18:09 Jookia Calinou: Per-file licenses I hope. :)
18:09 Calinou also, very few modders add licensing headers to their mods
18:09 Calinou (I do)
18:10 Jookia thePalindrome: They're meant to be verified
18:10 Jookia Trust, but verify
18:10 Jookia Having the information somewhat sorted makes it a lot easier
18:10 thePalindrome But... then why machine generate it?
18:10 Jookia thePalindrome: I said it wasn't machine generated
18:10 thePalindrome If you can't trust the info without verification, why not just put it together yourself?
18:10 Jookia thePalindrome: (05:08:07) Jookia: Not machine generated
18:11 sofar you can't trust it
18:11 sofar a lawyer is going to have a field day with you if you trust auto-generated license information
18:11 Jookia Why is nobody reading what I write :(
18:11 thePalindrome Because you aren't reading what we write
18:11 Jookia Yes I am, You think I said machine generated
18:12 thePalindrome er, no
18:12 Jookia Okay, maybe this is a miscommunication then
18:12 thePalindrome That's my guess
18:12 Jookia I think it'd be better than nothing to have a machine-readable text file listing licenses for files included in mods
18:12 Jookia You can trust it if you want, or verify it
18:13 thePalindrome but why have it machine-readable when a person has to verify it anyway?
18:13 sofar most common and widely used mods do a fine job listing licensing info
18:13 sofar if you see one that stinks, complain
18:13 Jookia They don't have to- the reason it's machine-readable is because it's easier to read and understand
18:13 thePalindrome My main argument sums up as: If a person needs to check it anyway, why even try to automate?
18:14 Jookia thePalindrome: Because it'll get you 90% of the way there. It's easy to have consistent formatting or parseable formatting compared to tons of different styles
18:14 Jookia thePalindrome: It also means you could send it with downloaded files
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18:15 thePalindrome Well, most (afaik) bits of FLOSS software have a license.txt that lists everything you need
18:16 Jookia the license.txt files are just copy pasted license texts, they don't list each file and specifics (like which GPL version)
18:16 thePalindrome Yeah, they do
18:16 Jookia Oh? Can you give me an example?
18:16 STHGOM joined #minetest
18:16 sofar https://github.com/sofar/crops/blob/master/LICENSE
18:17 thePalindrome Minetest's license does
18:17 thePalindrome at least for the GPL, you HAVE to include the FULL text of the GPL in it
18:17 thePalindrome At the top is the version
18:17 Jookia No
18:17 Jookia The GPL version needs to be specified in the program too
18:17 Jookia sofar: Nice!
18:17 sofar actually you're not required to include a copy of the full GPL
18:18 sofar there is no such requirement
18:18 thePalindrome Oh yeah, but you still have to declare which version
18:18 sofar the text reads "you SHOULD have received a copy ...."
18:18 thePalindrome I remember, there is the option to request the full text from the fsf
18:18 Jookia sofar: Yes you must
18:18 sofar correct, you have to (1) assert copyright and (2) declare a license
18:18 Jookia Section 4 of the GPL3 at least requires that you do
18:18 sofar Jookia: nope, not required. the GPL is valid even if you forget it
18:19 Jookia Are you thinking of a GPL2 thing? I haven't read it as much
18:19 sofar if you forget, then it's Copyrighted but not GPL'd and nobody can distribute it
18:19 sofar so effectively, you can forget it just fine
18:19 sofar nobody is going to care
18:19 Jookia Uhh
18:19 Jookia Nobody cares about proprietary software?
18:20 sofar not what I said
18:20 thePalindrome ^
18:20 Jookia Nobody cares that they can't distribute it?
18:20 * twoelk follows sofar's link and saddly sees no new crops
18:20 Jookia What did you say
18:20 sofar twoelk: I might add pumpkins soon
18:20 twoelk yummy
18:21 sofar nobody cares that you forgot to add COPYING if the license header clearly states GPL
18:21 Jookia I do
18:21 sofar that's because you don't understand
18:21 Jookia I don't understand what?
18:21 sofar hundreds of software packages are GPL and do not contain a COPYING file
18:21 thePalindrome How the GPL works
18:21 sofar go look
18:22 Jookia sofar: Uhh, what's your point though? That they're violating?
18:22 twoelk Jokia, just out of interest, which minetest servers have you visited ?
18:22 thePalindrome @Jookia we're saying that there are many ways to be GPL
18:22 Jookia twoelk: Liberty Land and Xandu, though it was a while back (may spell wrong)
18:22 sofar that the GPL is valid, and applies, even without a COPYING file in the source tree
18:22 Jookia sofar: It just means they haven't sued you yet ;)
18:23 thePalindrome No
18:23 thePalindrome They can't sue
18:23 sofar sue me for what?
18:23 Jookia Copyright infringement for not including a copy of the license when redistributing
18:23 sofar explain what merit sueing would do?
18:23 Jookia You violated the license
18:23 sofar how?
18:23 thePalindrome The license doesn't require the full text
18:23 consfearacy when I try to connect to a server it is stuck at loading "Media...", is this normal?
18:23 thePalindrome GPL allows you to omit it
18:23 Jookia The license requires you include a copy of the GPL along with the program
18:23 thePalindrome Not it doesn't
18:23 Jookia thePalindrome: not the GPL3
18:24 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=8494
18:24 Jookia Am I reading section 4 wrong?
18:24 twoelk for example Xanadu https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=8494 has a list with links to all mods
18:24 Jookia Conveying Verbatim Copies
18:24 Jookia twoelk: Oh yes I saw, it's great
18:24 Jookia GPL2 section 1 as well says that's a requirement
18:24 twoelk so what more do you need?
18:24 sofar "and give all recipients a copy of this License along with the Program."
18:25 Calinou <sofar> nobody cares that you forgot to add COPYING if the license header clearly states GPL
18:25 sofar is that the line you are referring to?
18:25 Calinou if all you say is "License: GPL", it means nothing
18:25 Jookia sofar: Yes- am I misunderstanding this?
18:25 Calinou you should always include a copy of the license with something you distribute
18:25 sofar yes I can see that being confusing
18:25 Calinou if the license is too long, then choose a simpler license
18:25 Calinou (MIT is 1.1 KB. is this too much?)
18:25 thePalindrome Basically, that's the "viral" clause
18:25 sofar they're not referring to the full GPL text there
18:25 thePalindrome Calinou: Jookia is working out how the GPL and MT mods combine
18:25 Jookia sofar: Are you sure? Let me check the copyleft guide for elaboration
18:26 Calinou Minetest is LGPLv2.1+ anyway :)
18:27 Jookia Like I'm not too bothered by any of this, I just want a place to put my licenses on a server
18:27 sofar in legal terms, a license is "the part that allows a user to do something with something". It can legally mean the same thing as "you may use my toilet permitted you adhere to the house rules" - and not define "house rules" more in detail
18:27 sofar as long as it's clear that the house rules are stated somewhere unambiguously
18:28 Jookia sofar: That makes sense as 'License' could mean the legal agreement, and they do refer to the license text as a different term
18:28 twoelk Jookia: make your entry in the serverlist point to a informative url - as all server owners should
18:28 thePalindrome ^
18:28 Jookia twoelk: I'd rather just put it on the server
18:28 Jookia I don't have a website
18:29 twoelk use the mods : welcome, serverinfo, news or wiki
18:29 * sofar really should start doing some work today now.... :^)
18:29 Jookia wiki? Pretty sure I'm banned from that
18:29 twoelk no in game wiki-like mod
18:30 Calinou Jookia, account creation on wiki is done manually
18:30 Calinou (due to spam issues)
18:30 Jookia twoelk: Ah
18:30 Jookia Calinou: Oh, I meant in general - I've stopped checking if I can register for wikis given I'm a heavy Tor user
18:30 thePalindrome brb, snagging lunch
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18:31 twoelk Jookia: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=6492
18:31 Jookia twoelk: Radical!
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18:33 twoelk or use news: https://github.com/Bremaweb/news
18:33 Jookia Thanks so much for that :)
18:34 sofar twoelk: would you care for pumpkins?
18:34 Obani joined #minetest
18:35 twoelk just had a hokaido, was really tasty!
18:37 twoelk oops, red kuri squash in english it seems
18:37 STHGOM joined #minetest
18:38 Calinou http://godotengine.org/topics/12978 :)
18:41 twoelk sofar, actually for my roman project I am just trying to find out what ancient  farms may have looked like and how to display their crops in minetest
18:41 Jookia Interesting!
18:43 sofar twoelk: should be plenty references on that online. they are well-studied
18:43 twoelk so I may be more interested in millet, oats, olive trees and wine
18:43 sofar http://www.therthdimension.org/Ancient​Rome/RomanFoodDrink/romanfooddrink.htm
18:43 sofar lists pumpkins
18:43 twoelk oh there is lots but really building it is a different story
18:44 Jookia Calinou: will that run on my GMA graphics?
18:45 STHGOM joined #minetest
18:45 twoelk I am pretty sure that list is wrong on pumpkins
18:45 twoelk ahrgh - more ressearch
18:46 Calinou Jookia, probably not
18:46 Calinou you need OpenGL ES 2.0 support
18:46 Calinou and a not-too-slow PC
18:46 Jookia Calinou: :( I wish my Trisquel Live CD wasn't full
18:46 sofar http://www.classicsunveiled.​com/romel/html/romefood.html also lists pumpkins
18:46 Calinou (for what it's worth, my late-2008 HP laptop can play it at 60 FPS)
18:46 Jookia Calinou: What card's in it?
18:47 Calinou GeForce GT 9600M
18:47 Calinou on Windows
18:47 sofar twoelk: euhh I think you may be correct
18:47 Jookia What's it on Linux?
18:47 Calinou haven't tried
18:47 Calinou probably the same, if you use the proprietary driver
18:47 Jookia Yuck
18:48 sofar twoelk: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=​cache:uuyoBLOvbCMJ:www.3owls.org/sca/cook/roman​.htm+&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us
18:48 sofar apparently there were some "gourds" but no pumpkin
18:48 Calinou http://mesamatrix.net/
18:49 Calinou looks like free drivers support OpenGL ES 3?
18:49 Calinou (ES, not plain OpenGL)
18:49 Calinou ES 3.1 is not fully supported yet though
18:49 sofar earlier GMA's only support 2?
18:49 thePalindrome What about linux?
18:49 Calinou sofar, very likely
18:49 Calinou (if you're lucky…)
18:49 Calinou GMA was crap
18:49 sofar Jookia: what GMA generation?
18:49 Calinou we're glad they stopped making it :)
18:50 sofar I can try/test on a few different gens
18:50 thePalindrome If you have an older card, you can't use nvidia-drivers
18:50 twoelk eh? no complete translation of Apicius? Uhm I own one
18:50 TC01 joined #minetest
18:50 * twoelk is puzzled
18:50 Jookia Well the only machine I have that I'll use 3D graphics on is a 2009 T400 with a GMA card
18:50 thePalindrome afaik you have to get nouveau
18:50 sofar twoelk: lol you make me want to play on your server
18:50 Jousway joined #minetest
18:50 * thePalindrome uses amd, which is much easier to use
18:50 sofar t400, that's ich9/10 right?
18:51 twoelk shall I start it for a tour?
18:51 * sofar REALLY has to start doing some work
18:51 Jookia sofar: ich9, yeah. It's a very specific model so I have it hacked
18:51 twoelk hehe
18:51 thePalindrome brb, actually eating
18:51 Calinou <thePalindrome> If you have an older card, you can't use nvidia-drivers
18:52 Calinou pre-Fermi cards still work, just not through the mainline driver
18:52 sofar twoelk: maybe after work I shall pay a visit to it ;)
18:52 Calinou you're limited to 341.xx
18:52 Calinou which is the legacy branch
18:54 twoelk sofar: give me a note on irc as I only start it unregular on the public list, ussually testing stuff on the Isarnho server slot
18:59 E4xoi hihi
19:00 Jookia o/
19:03 E4xoi \o
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20:12 consfearacy anyone play terraria?
20:13 rom1504 maybe
20:15 swift110-phone joined #minetest
20:17 consfearacy how do you conect to it?
20:17 autumn80 joined #minetest
20:17 rom1504 maybe someone knows
20:18 autumn80 hi
20:18 autumn80 anyone oneline
20:19 autumn80 hello???????
20:19 autumn80 is anyone going to talk to me or what:(
20:20 Obani I'm here, but afk :p
20:20 autumn80 oh ok
20:20 autumn80 buttt hi
20:21 autumn80 i wish my friends were on here
20:21 autumn80 :""(
20:21 thePalindrome ping
20:22 autumn80 ???????????????
20:22 consfearacy so what is a minetest
20:22 autumn80 minetest is like minecraft but diffrint i think
20:22 autumn80 ya
20:23 autumn80 but ya
20:23 rom1504 a minetest is a test in a mine
20:23 autumn80 ummm
20:24 autumn80 minetest is minecraft but like a diffrint name
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20:25 autumn80 umm
20:25 rom1504 it's very diffrint yeah
20:25 rom1504 a lot of diffr and of int
20:25 Teckla "Vanilla" Minetest also has many, many less features than "vanilla" Minecraft
20:26 autumn80 ill be back im going to be afk bye ill be back in like 2 mins
20:26 thePalindrome minetest is a voxel-based sandbox game similar to infiniminer and minecraft, but built to be modded
20:26 autumn80 bye
20:28 autumn80 ok im back
20:28 autumn80 sorry i had to do something
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20:30 alket joined #minetest
20:30 autumn80 ummm okk
20:30 Jookia IRC isn't a very chatty place, autumn80
20:31 autumn80 ya i can tell
20:31 Jookia It's a bit like public transport: Everybody sits around looking at their phones until someone expresses something someone disagrees with
20:31 kimfy joined #minetest
20:31 autumn80 ohhhhhhhhh
20:32 Jookia If you want to make friends you should check out some game servers :)
20:32 autumn80 i have friends there just not on irc
20:33 zat joined #minetest
20:33 Jookia Where do they hang about?
20:33 autumn80 umm what do you mean
20:34 autumn80 ?
20:35 Jookia Well, you could talk to them can't you?
20:35 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
20:35 autumn80 they go one diffrint servers
20:35 Jookia Ah
20:36 Jookia Instant message them?
20:36 autumn80 ???
20:36 thePalindrome Er, I seem to have missed something
20:37 autumn80 im going to stop talking now
20:37 Jookia Okay
20:38 autumn80 :/
20:39 alket joined #minetest
20:43 autumn80 ok this is boring
20:43 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
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20:43 autumn80 :(.
20:44 autumn80 :(
20:45 Obani autumn80, if you don't have anything to ask or to tell, we have no reason to talk ^^
20:45 Obani gtg
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22:07 zat http://www.lua.org/wshop13/Burgueno.pdf
22:08 zat Async Lua in Minetest would be lovely.
22:10 TheWild yeah, just async(function() ... end) would be enough
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22:11 TheWild why the hell Lua is so retarded. Array numbering from 1? And no binary data conversions functions (e.g. 4 chars to float)?
22:11 TheWild even QBASIC had them
22:13 sfan5 lua is a scripting language
22:14 sfan5 like
22:14 TheWild scripting, scripting...
22:14 sfan5 python can't convert bytes to float either
22:14 zat I still say, a Javascript VM would be cool in Minetest, I onco dropped the idea and someone started comparing me to someone that wanted to make all web based.
22:14 sfan5 nor javascript
22:14 zat s/onco/once*
22:14 sfan5 indexing from 1 is weird tho
22:14 TheWild JavaScript got ArrayBuffers, not so long ago though
22:15 sfan5 are those part of the standard?
22:15 TheWild Lua in future will have io.pack and io.unpack or something similar
22:15 sofar in itself javascript could work fine, but the problem is libraries
22:15 TheWild mmm... EcmaScript 5?
22:16 zat http://www.ecma-international.org/ecma​-262/6.0/#sec-arraybuffer-constructor
22:16 zat there it is
22:16 zat sofar: what libraries?
22:16 sofar the problem isn't that there are no libraries... the problem is that there are too many ;^)
22:17 zat v8 just like NodeJS
22:17 TheWild there are sometimes binary data to read (e.g. SimCity 2000 maps) or write (dynamically generated B3D files), and I don't like to use integer/float hacks.
22:18 zat I wonder how hard would it be to make a fork featuring a Javascript VM instead.
22:19 sfan5 hard
22:19 sfan5 not as hard was changing block position to >16-bit
22:19 sfan5 but still hard
22:23 TheWild I had that weird feeling about block positions being 16-bit; -32768..32767, but to avoid map generator mess it was limited to -31000..31000. What is this? MC has 3 million. But take it real: who is building that far (even as far as 31000)?
22:25 zat When you can build vehicles Robocraft style people will get far.
22:25 zat certainly
22:25 twoelk look at the redcrab server map
22:26 TheWild hm... why not to loop the map? 32767 + 1 goes -32768
22:28 twoelk use worldedge mod to warp the map into tiles
22:31 sofar I've always found edge warping to be a kludge, and it doesn't solve the available server area problem
22:33 Jookia We can dream of giant maps
22:34 Jookia Maybe we should find a way to switch between servers when it comes to these things
22:35 TheWild hmm... possibly seamlessly
22:35 TheWild e.g. on the edges client connected to multiple servers
22:35 sofar server switching through a portal-like system would work well
22:35 twoelk Jookia: that would only work nicely between servers with the exactly same set of mods
22:36 sofar just disconnect the client and send redirect information in a package
22:36 TheWild or servers are "overlapping" on the map
22:36 thePalindrome Honestly I'd expect a system like that to come from a mod
22:36 Jookia twoelk: That'd be fine, just have servers run multiple instances
22:36 sofar server switching needs client support
22:36 Jookia Maybe we need to decouple the idea of servers versus hosts of world
22:37 twoelk ah
22:37 Jookia I'm sure chat could be synced across instances
22:37 sofar one server per world model is fine, as long as clients understand "hey this server is telling me to connect to this server now"
22:37 sofar client gets a loading screen... no big deal
22:37 twoelk you want to switch between "realms" hosted on the same server
22:37 sofar could even have different mods
22:37 Jookia sofar: Yep. Always ask for permission.
22:37 Jookia sofar: It'd be nice if some mods could be kept in cache but whatever
22:38 Jookia realms/servers, who knows. Having different mods would allow for different types of 'planets' or places
22:38 sofar well you'd expect user account info to be remembered both source and client side
22:38 Jookia I'd just like to know how well it'd scale. Hundreds of them at the last
22:38 Jookia least*
22:38 sofar so splitting up the user auth stuff so that a user connection is shared seems logical
22:38 twoelk hm, just replace the main menu with a nice picture of a portal?
22:38 Jookia sofar: Could always just use tokens to refer authentications
22:40 twoelk Jookia: btw this has been discussed several times over the years now and nobody has come up with some useful code to at least prove the concept
22:41 Jookia of course
22:42 TheWild what a big deal. Player is about to leave server A and go to B. Server A generates a big random number and pokes the B that a player is going to connect with the number. Server A gives the number to the client and redirects him to B. Client connects to B with a number. Server B matches the numbers. Auth OK.
22:42 thePalindrome MitM
22:42 TheWild is there a security hole I'm not seeing right now?
22:43 twoelk I don't think that is the probleme
22:43 thePalindrome Besides, what about sharing auth/inventory?
22:43 Jookia Problem is effort
22:43 TheWild so the server must be digitally-signed
22:43 thePalindrome The servers have to trust each other
22:43 * zat wonders how many times this discussion has taken place already...
22:44 thePalindrome eeyup
22:44 zat and always the same conclusion: Minetest is a framework for games and not a game.
22:44 twoelk the probleme might rather be the decentralized chaotic organisation of totally free servers that are modded in many different ways
22:44 thePalindrome That's what I'm more thinking
22:44 thePalindrome Either way, I'm done for the day
22:45 thePalindrome /)
22:45 Jookia twoelk: Politics?
22:46 twoelk nah just freedom in the anarchic sense
22:46 Jookia I can't do much help aside from small modding I plan to do with a friend, since I'm a busy bee
22:46 Jookia like porting NixOS to ARM
22:46 twoelk hardly any two servers are alike enough to work together well
22:47 Jookia just have it per-server owner so they own a bunch of realms themselves
22:47 Jookia completely internal, get big maps
22:47 twoelk do keep in mind that infinity is really big
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23:02 who_wants_some Silence! (with alien voice)
23:04 TheWild this time the pattern generated by people joining and leaving is too short to find a hidden message.
23:24 who_wants_some minetest needs good default game, play ready
23:25 who_wants_some minetest_game is good now, but needs some polish and additions
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