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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-05-08

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Time Nick Message
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00:20 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Conf.example: Update recommended maximum cloud radius to 26 77e4a46 http://git.io/vUfww (2015-05-08T01:17:50+01:00)
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03:12 technomancy I'm looking at using minetest to teach programming to children. is the mesecons luacontroller the primary form of in-game programming at this point?
03:17 est31 yes
03:21 technomancy cool.
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04:04 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix missing Y component assignment in check_v3f 0e64fc4 http://git.io/vUJGr (2015-05-08T00:03:41-04:00)
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04:13 hmmmm heh i just found a 15 node long longcat
04:14 hmmmm err, nyancat
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04:55 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Tests: Add schematic unittests 2dba29e http://git.io/vUJ4a (2015-05-08T00:55:42-04:00)
04:55 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Gracefully handle PacketErrors 33c1141 http://git.io/vUJ4I (2015-05-08T06:51:03+02:00)
05:24 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Fix release build warning 0310123 http://git.io/vUJzZ (2015-05-08T07:23:41+02:00)
05:24 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix compilation for non-client builds, and fix signed comparison warning f091bbd http://git.io/vUJzn (2015-05-08T01:21:34-04:00)
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06:32 technomancy before I open a bug report, should I expect connecting to a git master server on linux from 0.4.12 on windows to work smoothly?
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06:36 est31 yes
06:39 technomancy oddly enough it works fine with software rendering in a network game, and hardware rendering in a local game. it's just hardware rendering in the network game that's hosed.
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07:44 est31 !doge
07:44 MinetestBot http://i.imgur.com/F2vYL4j.gif
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09:04 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy No Socks Day! 😃
09:04 est31 and unicode smiley day too JamesTait ?
09:05 JamesTait Every day should be Unicode smiley day! 😉
09:06 est31 👍
09:07 est31 👂 👁 👁 👂
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09:08 est31 🌍 🌎 🌏
09:08 est31 three globes!
09:08 est31 🗺
09:11 * JamesTait needs a more complete font. :-P
09:12 est31 lol
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10:29 Calinou ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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12:07 sfan5 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=177814#p177814
12:07 sfan5 ok, why not
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14:32 technomancy how does the minetest client run on the raspberry pi 2?
14:32 technomancy can it use the accelerated GPU?
14:32 sfan5 yes
14:33 sfan5 irrlicht supports OpenGL ES
14:33 technomancy sweet
14:33 technomancy decent frame rate?
14:33 sfan5 you need a special irrlicht version for that though
14:33 sfan5 no idera
14:33 sfan5 -r
14:33 sfan5 i only own the original rpi b
14:33 technomancy same
14:33 technomancy but thinking about picking up a 2
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14:39 ElectronLibre Just a quick idea that came to my mind, could it be possible to add a field in the profile settings page of the forum for Tox IDs (like there are alraedy some for Jabber/MSN addresses)?
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14:46 vtold anybody saw running truecraft?
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16:22 CWz Question to all server admins: is it me or the "noob" plague is getting worst?
16:25 ElectronLibre I'm not a server admin but I can tell you this : it has always been this bad. Then, maybe it's worse on some servers.
16:26 ElectronLibre However, I noticed a general worsening during the last months..
16:27 ElectronLibre So, yes, it has not always been that bad :/
16:28 technomancy best to hang out on IRC were the noobs haven't figured out how to connect to yet
16:29 ElectronLibre On freenode? I've already seen some of them.
16:29 technomancy >_<
16:29 ElectronLibre But thanksfully there is InchraNet, and +b :°
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16:33 CWz i fear how things will be in 2018
16:33 ElectronLibre I don't even want to imagine this.
16:33 est ?
16:36 ElectronLibre I don't want Minetest to end up being player by a majority of noobs, it would be horrible.
16:37 technomancy the cool thing about noobs is that they're only noobs for a while
16:37 technomancy they either go away or become experienced players
16:37 * technomancy <- noob; just started playing last week
16:38 technomancy most noobs probably don't spend hours reading the dev.minetest.net wiki tho
16:38 ElectronLibre Yes.
16:39 technomancy looking to learn me some lua
16:39 ElectronLibre I'm thinking about the "hardcore noob". Basically the teen who found a new game and try it on multiplayer servers without even bothering themself trying to speak proper english.
16:39 ElectronLibre technomancy, read this : https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
16:40 ElectronLibre With this, you can do anything.
16:40 technomancy ElectronLibre: my kids are super excited to learn minetest... they are 7 and 5 and don't have good grammar, so I'll apologise in advance for them =)
16:40 technomancy but I don't let them on public servers unsupervised, don't worry
16:41 ElectronLibre Hmm, ok, my definition is not complete, but you get the point.
16:41 technomancy yeah, I think so
16:41 ElectronLibre By the way sorry if I offended :s..
16:41 technomancy not at all =)
16:42 CWz never ever let children on public server list. it isn't moderated  and any random git  can  add their server to the list
16:42 CWz I don't trust most of those servers
16:43 ElectronLibre Good advise.
16:43 technomancy yep
16:44 ElectronLibre At least you recognize some of them that you trust (like VanessaE 's ones), don't you? (but you have to know a bit about the community)
16:44 CWz some if not most of the server are unmoderated making them unsafe as well
16:44 CWz VanessaE's server are great
16:45 ElectronLibre There should be a trust mechanism, like server would be trusted on serverlist if the owner gave informations about it in the servers' forum section..
16:46 OldCoder Hm
16:46 OldCoder So a moderated server list
16:46 OldCoder This is sensible
16:47 OldCoder Informations about it not sufficient
16:47 OldCoder Needs a trust rating
16:47 ElectronLibre With that you could detect daily and unmoderated servers from very stable and moderated ones, with maybe exceptions for some (if the staff decides it *coughs* just test *coughs again*).
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16:47 ElectronLibre Yes, then, the staff would have to check what is told in the forum post, and the level of moderation.
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16:49 ElectronLibre And, I don't really meant a moderated serverlist, servers couldn't be removed from it, but some could get a trusted label (with a trust rate).
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16:57 Calinou we could have “starred” server system (optional)
16:57 Calinou servers that are known to be good quality
16:58 Calinou (sensible choice of mods, good uptime, …)
16:59 CWz I feel that there was probably a reason why Minecraft doesn't have an official public server list.
17:00 Calinou Minecraft is a commercial game, we aren't
17:00 Calinou commercial games often have trouble with public server lists
17:00 exio4 redeclipse ftw
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17:01 Calinou breadeclipse!
17:02 Wayward_Tab Yum
17:02 rubenwardy A another feature would be to detect how big a server is, in terms of mods, and how mobile compatible
17:02 Wayward_Tab ...I think
17:02 rubenwardy and display a score
17:02 ElectronLibre The masterserver (servers.minetest.net) can count how many mods are installed, it's not that complicated.
17:03 ElectronLibre (apparently)
17:03 CWz Wayward_Tab: really? that's so cool man
17:04 CWz a server rating system could work
17:04 ElectronLibre It's still the best solution.
17:05 Calinou heh
17:05 Calinou http://searx.me/ ⇒ search Minetest ⇒ Wikipedia info (with logo) shows despite page being deleted
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17:06 ElectronLibre Minetest's page on Wikipedia has been deleted a while ago.
17:06 Calinou http://searx.me/?q=minetest&amp​;pageno=1&amp;category_general
17:06 CWz rating system would probably get abused. by banned players and server supporters fighting to have top server
17:06 Calinou we could have basic star ratings
17:06 Calinou hide them until a server has received at least 3 reviews
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17:10 CWz In the history of the public server list was any server removed from it?
17:11 ElectronLibre I don't think so.
17:11 CWz not even that one server that faked its online players count
17:12 ElectronLibre I never heard about this one.
17:13 CWz it was a while ago back in the days of the 0.4.9
17:14 ElectronLibre It's not that old.. But I don't remember this one.
17:14 rubenwardy Does SRP involve servers being signed?
17:24 rubenwardy Is it better to do minetest.get_modpath() or _G['asas'] to see if a mod exists?
17:24 rubenwardy sorry, rawget(_G, "intllib") not  _G
17:24 ElectronLibre You're talking about my PR right?
17:25 rubenwardy Yeah. I keep forgetting you're them. I'm also not sure what Mod Sandboxing does to _G / rawget
17:25 ElectronLibre So I didn't wanted to check if the mod existed but if the intllib table existed, so i replaced a check for a variable to exist by another way to do it.
17:26 rubenwardy It makes more sense, it's stupid how "if intllib" throws an error
17:26 ElectronLibre _G apparently contains everything, it's the Lua environment. I saw a use of this in another mod,
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17:26 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Replace Wieldmesh::setItem assertion that could be triggered by the server with an error f1ccfd3 http://git.io/vUIFH (2015-05-08T13:26:31-04:00)
17:27 ElectronLibre There it is : https://github.com/HybridDog/minetest-​nether/blob/master/nether/init.lua#L14
17:27 rubenwardy I know about _G and rawget
17:28 ElectronLibre Oh, ok.
17:28 rubenwardy rawget is whitelisted
17:28 rubenwardy so mod sandboxing likes it
17:28 ElectronLibre And about how "if intllib" throws an error, it does that since global variables cause warnings.
17:29 rubenwardy I use get_modpath here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/foo​d/blob/master/food/init.lua#L105
17:30 CWz can mod_security be disabled via .conf?
17:30 ElectronLibre Both could be used to me.
17:30 rubenwardy CWz, you can whitelist mods
17:30 ElectronLibre But you also check for diet, which means that get_modpath could be true while your table couldn't exist.
17:31 rubenwardy I did that because I had a crash bug
17:31 rubenwardy *crazy
17:31 rubenwardy and couldn't work out what it was
17:31 rubenwardy the hud.item_eat is to check that hud supports item_eat in that version
17:31 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Ensure that Map::findNodesWithMetadata() reports nodes strictly within the node-granular area ff740a4 http://git.io/vUIAT (2015-05-08T13:31:03-04:00)
17:32 ElectronLibre Anyway, if rawget detectes the intllib table, then intllib mod exists and is loaded.
17:32 ElectronLibre s/detectes/detects
17:32 rubenwardy Yeah, and other builtin/mods could maybe define it.
17:33 ElectronLibre Honestly I wonder why they would but yes I get the point.
17:34 rubenwardy I don't think they would
17:34 ElectronLibre So combining both minetest.get_modpath and rawget would ensure that 1) the mod exists 2) it is loaded.
17:35 ElectronLibre I will do this when I will be back.
17:35 rubenwardy get modpath ensures that it is loaded, too
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17:44 CWz is it me or does freeminer always take longer to compile
17:44 CWz and is harder on the cpu
17:48 Calinou it's more bloated :P
17:48 proller proof!
17:53 ElectronLibre rubenwardy, knowing that you merged my PR, are you still gonna use both get_modpath and rawget or just rawget?
17:54 rubenwardy It's probably good enough as it is - I don't have time to maintain Food that much atm
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17:55 ElectronLibre Ok, then, I'm glad to have been helpful (for once).
17:55 * CWz await the day were it will be possible to make minecraft mods quality mods
17:57 CWz qtest would be pretty cool
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18:01 rubenwardy When you find a pull request from 4 months ago you never saw
18:01 rubenwardy ;_;
18:02 rubenwardy Is that a happy or sad face?
18:02 ElectronLibre Quite sad I think.
18:03 rubenwardy Looks sad to me
18:03 CWz How unique are mac addresses
18:03 rubenwardy Then again, apparently :L is a happy face (lolface)
18:03 ElectronLibre As far as I know, unique.
18:03 rubenwardy !g How unique are mac addresses
18:03 MinetestBot rubenwardy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address
18:04 rubenwardy http://www.networkworld.com/article/2340364/l​an-wan/are-mac-addresses-really-unique-.html
18:04 rubenwardy Sorry, that was a bit rude - to much lmgtfu
18:04 ElectronLibre Usually I'm limited with only a few emoticons : ._. o_o O_o :s and :/
18:04 rubenwardy :) :( D: :S :/ XD are my main one
18:05 rubenwardy oh, and :P my favorite
18:05 rubenwardy What a socially stupid conversation
18:05 ElectronLibre Yes.
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18:06 Calinou ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
18:06 * ElectronLibre now starts wondering why he never uses happy emoticons
18:07 CWz ah a ipv6 it burns
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18:07 ElectronLibre How could most of them exist without Kanjis ._.
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20:15 Jordach finally
20:15 sfan5 meow
20:15 * ElectronLibre gives Jordach a cookie.
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20:15 sfan5 !op
20:15 Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, the official Minetest channel | Latest version: 0.4.12 (2015-02-18) | Responses may take a while, so be patient. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/
20:15 sfan5 !deop
20:16 ElectronLibre Hmm, by the way, would there be any problem using default.LIGHT_MAX as a light_source for a default mod's node? (I'm trying to explain it but I can't really get that person to understand)
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21:42 Amaz Can anyone tell me why this code causes this error? http://pastie.org/10178657 http://pastie.org/10178659
21:43 est31 ummm
21:43 est31 its not allowed to pass nil as digger just yet I think
21:44 Amaz Ah. So is there anyway I can do that?
21:45 est31 you want to do currying
21:45 est31 try
21:46 est31 on_dig = function(pos, node, digger)
21:46 est31 lottplants_dig_tree(pos, "lottplants:pinetree", digger, 20)
21:46 est31 end
21:46 Amaz Okay!
21:46 est31 on_dig is a function pointer value
21:47 est31 what you did was assigning the return value of that special call as function
21:50 Amaz Great, that works! Thanks!
22:03 exio4 est31: currying \o/
22:04 est31 I've heard it would be called that way at uni, but wiki sais elsehow
22:04 exio4 wait, that's no currying
22:04 est31 you know functional programming better than me :) whats it called?
22:05 exio4 that looks like partial application,
22:05 est31 what a boring name xD
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22:05 exio4 currying is when you have a function (a,b) -> c and convert it to a function a -> (b -> c)
22:06 exio4 (generalized)
22:06 exio4 it can be seen as one of those laws we learnt in high school
22:06 exio4 A x B -> C is C ^ (A x B)
22:06 est31 thats notation
22:06 exio4 A -> (B -> C) is (C^B)^A
22:07 est31 notation again
22:07 est31 in set theory, numbers are sets too
22:07 est31 then its starting to become really interesting
22:07 est31 because 2 = {0, 1}
22:07 est31 you start with 0 = {}
22:07 est31 then you construct 1 = {0}
22:08 est31 and 2 = {0, 1}
22:08 est31 and so on
22:08 exio4 in lua syntax, it'd
22:09 exio4 function (x) function (y) return f(x,y) end
22:09 exio4 function (x,y) return f(x)(y) end
22:09 est31 that way of defining is very nice, because you can have now things like 2^set
22:10 exio4 est31: sure, it's all notation if you like to call it that way
22:10 exio4 you can view types as bastard sets
22:11 est31 yea depending on what you start with :)
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22:22 Pilcrow so, Amaz, by the looks of it, you are making trees that are sort of affected by gravity? as in, the whole trunk plonks down by 1 when you chop a section of it?
22:26 Amaz Yep!
22:26 Amaz It's for the tall trees, because they often get left floating in mid air...
22:29 Pilcrow Amaz: looks interesting! One thing you should note is that the 'node' variable sent to minetest.node_dig should actually be a table, not a string. also, you are re-defining 'node' in line 6 of that pastie, then trying to check it against itself in line 7. an easy fix is to use a different variable name, intead of 'node', for your lottplants_dig_tree: http://pastie.org/10178705
22:29 Amaz Yep.
22:30 Amaz I realised that when things didn't work as they should, so it is fixed now, but thanks :)
22:31 Pilcrow mmkay, just trying to be helpful. it's a great idea, by the way...  :)
22:31 Amaz Thanks :)
22:32 Amaz It's nice when someone tries to be helpful, which is the nice thing about this community, as most people do try to be helpful :D The idea is pretty much a variant on the timber or treecapiciator mod, just a bit more manual.
22:34 Pilcrow Amaz: if you can figure out how, it would be cool if your mod made the leaves move too, with the trunk... but that sounds like a lot of server stress, for wide trees...  :P
22:35 Amaz Yeah, it could be quite heavy for the server...
22:38 Amaz I'm going to be going now, thanks for the help! Bye.
22:47 Pilcrow looks like est31 left already? was going to say, if 0 = {}, 1 = {0} and 2 = {0, 1}, then does 2 = {{}, {{}}}?  :P
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