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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-05-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:49 desvox Finally made my first mod. It adds ore to tree trunks. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=9&t=12093&p=178069#p178069
00:50 Trixar_za Hmmm - that reminds me. I want to make a mod that adds more trap blocks
00:53 desvox Trap blocks?
00:54 Trixar_za Blocks that act like normal blocks, but players can move through them.
00:59 desvox Oh! There was a nice minecraft mod that was nothing but neat stuff like that. It had doors, switches, pressure plates and shit that all blended straight into walls and floors.
00:59 desvox And walkthrough blocks that disguised as what they were placed around
01:00 Trixar_za Yeah - I want more of those :P
01:00 Trixar_za Currently I only have trap stone, glow glass and super glow glass blocks
01:01 Trixar_za Not sure which mod added those or if they come with the base files.
01:02 Trixar_za I'd like to make trap window pane glass - imagine building a water tower type thing doing that :P
01:02 desvox Oh, so like an elevator? That would be perfect
01:04 Trixar_za Kind of like this: http://trixarian.net/windows.jpg except you can walk through the glass panels
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01:48 LittleJoe are there any mods for VE's survival server online?
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03:32 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix typo in WieldMesh::setItem() d59e6ad http://git.io/vUmOj (2015-05-08T23:30:56-04:00)
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03:41 Zeno` I didn't see a PR for that fix
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06:39 jin_xi technomancy: i think i read your blog once... you did the semi-keyboards attached to the legs thing, right?
06:39 jin_xi nice stuff
06:39 technomancy jin_xi: hah, yeah I did that briefly
06:39 technomancy kind of impractical; much happier with the Atreus now: http://atreus.technomancy.us
06:40 jin_xi oh, that looks nice indeed
06:41 technomancy thanks
06:41 technomancy not great for gaming but it's super for coding
06:45 jin_xi wasd/arrows shifted by one looks a bit weird thb
06:45 technomancy I used to have the arrows under wasd, but leaving your hands on the home row position is way nicer for me
06:46 jin_xi im just cautious because i learned vi keys with index on h of hjkl, ie shifted one to the left
06:46 technomancy especially for the occasional arrow press instead of gaming
06:46 jin_xi messes with me badly now.
06:46 technomancy well those are shifted the other way, so you're using your index finger more
06:47 technomancy shifting towards the pinkies sucks because pinkies are weak
06:47 jin_xi yes, plorblem is i shifted the whole hand after playing too much nethack :    (
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06:48 technomancy plus WASD doesn't have the correct staggering in this layout
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09:00 Xack \o
09:01 Xack holy crap
09:01 Xack hi technomancy, didn't know you play minetest :P
09:01 Calinou hi Xack
09:01 Calinou Xack, we have yet to see Notch here
09:01 Calinou some day he will come :D
09:01 Xack haha
09:01 Xack hi Calinou :)
09:01 Calinou would be fun to see a Mojangsta joining Minetest development
09:02 Calinou it means we'd have won
09:02 Calinou :p
09:02 Xack yeah heh
09:02 Xack yay minetest installed
09:02 Calinou I have a server, Xack (not many players) if you want to play
09:02 Xack openSUSE has 0.4.12 now :D
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09:02 Calinou hugo.pro port 30000
09:02 Xack Calinou: sure :)
09:02 Xack (didn't you already tell me? :P)
09:03 Calinou probably
09:03 Xack ah forgot to put inchra on autoconnect
09:04 Xack also i consider technomancy famous for his work with clojure, and others :)
09:04 Calinou Clojure, a language nopony understands ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
09:04 Xack haha
09:04 Calinou it's the language Light Table (an editor) uses
09:04 Xack yep
09:04 Calinou although I prefer Atom, lots of packages to do everything
09:05 Calinou it's my #1 IDE for Web development
09:05 Xack yeah, atom's great
09:05 Xack tho i work in the terminal, and atom lags my computer like hell, so i use emacs
09:05 Xack and i prefer emacs anyway
09:05 Xack because lisp :P
09:05 * Xack hides from the vim users
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10:16 * sfan5 xacks at Xack
10:17 * ElectronLibre wonders if that's even an english verb.
10:17 Xack hi sfan5 \o
10:22 Calinou xack is a word, xacks isn't
10:22 Calinou (lowercase)
10:23 joalland joined #minetest
10:24 joalland hi
10:24 joalland I've just tested the game and it's amazing how it's more optimized thant minecraft
10:24 joalland C++ > java
10:25 joalland Well done and thank to the developpers. =)
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10:38 Xack sfan5: https://gist.github.com/f0c4a98de61d78a2b3ae
10:38 Xack is that meant to work?
10:38 Xack or does mt have safeguards against it?
10:39 Xack (when trying it change s/Xack/sfan5/)
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10:42 Calinou this gave me the idea of a very simple mod: show your username on HUD in a corner
10:43 CWz that would be useful for the ones who forget their username when they login
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10:50 CWz Mintest is feels like it more alive than it was in 2013 when i first found it
10:51 Calinou when I joined it in July 2011 it felt pretty dead
10:51 Calinou but it was holidays, so it's quite normal
10:51 Calinou stuff is more dead during holidays (July-August)
10:53 ElectronLibre How to show your username : /me
10:54 Calinou well, that says something in chat
10:54 ElectronLibre Yes, so, find something to say with it and it's fine;
10:54 ElectronLibre I remember a mod having a /whoami command also.
10:55 ElectronLibre Ah, yes, default/commands.lua in Carbone.
10:57 Calinou player_tools by Wuzzy does that
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11:00 SSlash Guys, is there newer cmake-build guide than README.txt included in minetest-master folder? I have a problem with OpenAL, Freetype, LuaJIT etc. libraries. I am a dummy, btw :)
11:02 Calinou SSlash, what distribution?
11:02 Calinou there is none, all materials refer to README.txt
11:03 Calinou you should make an issue on GitHub
11:03 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues
11:03 SSlash Calinou, Distribution of what?
11:04 Calinou what OS?
11:04 SSlash Win 7
11:04 Calinou oh, compiling on Windows
11:04 SSlash yep
11:04 Calinou get a virtual machine, install Debian on it and build inside it
11:04 Calinou much easier
11:05 SSlash I have Archlinux. Is it able to build it?
11:05 Calinou yes
11:05 Calinou there's an AUR package too
11:07 ElectronLibre Building on Windows for the first time is plain horrible. You have to specify manually the path to at least 8 libraries, with their libs, includes, sources, etc...
11:08 SSlash But, I want to have it on Windows. I want to learn a C++ with digging minetest :) So i started with attempts to build it on windows.
11:09 SSlash Sorry for my bad english
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11:09 SSlash English*
11:10 ElectronLibre Ok, so, have you downloaded every library?
11:10 ElectronLibre (I'm gonna try to help you but I couldn't compile minetest on Win since SQLite3 lib and sources are needed)
11:11 sfan5 Xack: why would minetest restrict the amount of hud elements?
11:12 SSlash ElectronLibre, no. I Tried to find OpenAL an found just sources of it. About Freetype - there said nothing about windows: http://www.freetype.org/
11:12 ElectronLibre I've never been able to use freetype for Windows, but it has never been a problem for me.
11:12 sfan5 SSlash: you can cross-compile for windows from linux using the buildbot https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/tree/master/util/buildbot; alternatively you can just run the buildbot to download the libraries
11:13 SSlash It downloads libraries for linux?
11:14 sfan5 no, libraries for windows
11:14 SSlash Only?
11:14 SSlash oh
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11:14 * DusXMT 's experience when compiling for windows: Get MinGW, crawl the dependency tree, compiling all the needed libraries, and then finally after a couple of days compile the actual thing
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11:18 SSlash Couple days.. So I have today and tomorrow and intend to compile minetest with MSVC
11:19 SSlash *Couple of days
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11:28 Thron hi there
11:34 Thron joined #minetest
11:35 SSlash OpenAL: Install - Installation complete. And.. and nothing! Where is my "include" dir? Where is my "OpenAL32.lib" file? "C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenAL\" dir does not contains them :/
11:35 SSlash Does not contain*
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11:37 Thron are any players from LinuxGaming server online?
11:38 CWz I play there sometimes
11:44 Xack sfan5: uh
11:44 Xack sfan5: to stop malicious mods? idk
11:45 sfan5 Xack: just go to another server
11:45 sfan5 (if some servers has this mod installed)
11:55 Xack sfan5: what.
11:55 Xack i made it myself
11:55 Xack on my testserver
11:55 Xack im asking do you know why it doesn't work lol
11:56 sfan5 Xack: be more clear pls
11:56 sfan5 no idea
11:56 sfan5 the hud api is magic
11:56 Xack sfan5: please
11:56 Xack (123842)          Xack │ sfan5: https://gist.github.com/f0c4a98de61d78a2b3ae
11:56 Xack (123845)          Xack │ is that meant to work?
11:56 Xack how could i be any more clear lel
11:57 sfan5 "why doesn't that work?"
11:57 Xack that's the same thing
11:57 Xack almost
11:57 Xack because one is yes/no
11:57 Xack and the other is a reason
11:57 Xack what's so hard about that :P
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12:13 Xack sfan5: apertron.net:29999 to see lenny in his glory
12:14 sfan5 k
12:15 Xack :(
12:15 sfan5 Xack: ERROR[main]: Connection timed out.
12:16 Xack wat.
12:16 Xack try again(?)
12:16 sfan5 k
12:18 Xack sfan5: https://gist.github.com/1ee7de211317651e6d1e
12:18 sfan5 >soil
12:19 sfan5 >explody
12:19 sfan5 i think you forgot some group
12:19 Xack pls gib group name
12:19 sfan5 no idea
12:20 Xack :(
12:21 Xack gah!
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12:53 technomancy Xack: hi hi. are you the quicklisp guy?
12:55 technomancy or is that Xach with an H?
12:57 sfan5 >lisp
13:00 Xack technomancy: haha, no :P
13:00 Xack Xach
13:00 Xack sfan5: but but parens!
13:00 sfan5 ?
13:00 sfan5 oh
13:01 Xack (defun sfan (hi) (format t hi)) (sfan "pls")
13:01 sfan5 pls
13:02 Xack :D
13:02 Xack sfan5: wanna play MT \w me
13:02 Xack ?
13:02 Xack w/
13:02 Xack meh.
13:02 Xack apertron.net:30000 if you are interested
13:02 sfan5 maybe
13:03 Xack technomancy: kinda a coincidence because i do really like common lisp :P
13:03 Xack but nah, i'm not Xach
13:03 Xack sfan5: free lenny block if u connect
13:07 sfan5 Xack: pls gib
13:08 Xack sec
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13:45 Telesight To build a server do you really use SQlite?
13:46 DusXMT Telesight: I think sqlite is used for storing the worlds, but I might be wrong
13:47 ElectronLibre It is true, you need Sqlite, or another library instead (Redis, etc..)
13:47 Telesight I was looking at the used databases, I expected MySQL or someting like that
13:50 Telesight CAn SQlite handle 20 users or more then ?
13:50 sfan5 yes
13:51 sfan5 the database only stores the world
13:51 sfan5 so it doesn't really matter how many people do you have
13:52 Telesight sfan5: Ok and where is the userinformation stored then ...
13:52 sfan5 text files
13:52 Telesight Ah, ok
13:53 Telesight I live more in the world of MySQL, Postgress etc.   ;-)
13:54 sfan5 minetest can theoretically support mysql/postgres
13:54 sfan5 but nobody wrote any code for that yet
13:54 Telesight Ok
13:55 Telesight The minetestserver installs SQLite too I think ...
13:55 sfan5 if you want you can also use LevelDB and redis
13:55 sfan5 or*
13:56 Telesight SQLite is used a lot in thsi world ...
13:58 Telesight I go for SQLite if I read the remarks overhere: http://wiki.minetest.net/Database_backends
13:58 exio4 sfan5: "it can theorically support X" seems a pretty useless remark :p
13:58 sfan5 i know
13:59 sfan5 i meant it more like "it wouldn't require huge changes in the code to support X"
13:59 Telesight I understand what he wants to say ;-)
14:00 Telesight Never use that remark in coorporation with clients ;-)
14:01 exio4 sfan5: I also knew what you meant :p
14:03 technomancy this seems like a case where database agnosticism is thoroughly unwarranted
14:03 Telesight EXplain ...
14:04 technomancy Telesight: well I was thinking that sqlite wouldn't be a speed bottleneck, but now I see from the wiki that may not be the case
14:04 technomancy swapping out sqlite for redis would make sense, but swapping it out for postgres probably wouldn't
14:06 technomancy (because the advantage of postgres isn't speed, it's improved data integrity, but since you only have one server accessing any given DB at a time, who cares?)
14:06 technomancy that said, there are likely more requirements relevant to the question than my superficial glance has uncovered
14:06 exio4 I was going to say you may want to use a non hipster database with somewhat proven data integrity :>
14:07 Telesight Well I was surprised not to see MySQL (or like) but SQLIte and that for a system like Minetest .
14:08 Telesight I thought SQLIte was developed for mobile apparatus
14:08 Telesight but time goes fast ...
14:08 exio4 anyway, sqlite is pretty safe
14:09 technomancy exio4: "integrity" is an interesting concept in a distributed world like this. you have multiple divergent timelines and have to come up with a single canonical one, but at some point the rules you use to do this may feel arbitrary from a gameplay perspective
14:09 exio4 technomancy: Minetest client don't really do much by themselves
14:09 exio4 clients}
14:09 technomancy exio4: right, but integrity is measured against the observation of humans
14:10 technomancy practically speaking
14:10 exio4 I am not worried about that kind of integrity then
14:11 exio4 also, have you heard about that problem with SSDs where they "forget" data after a few months?
14:11 Telesight Some do not want integrity .... that said I will come back later for detailquestions I think ...
14:11 exio4 I would like to know why someone would dislike integrity, when it is cheap
14:12 Telesight That was a moral reaction ;-)
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14:15 Calinou MySQL would be too much for a thing like Minetest, so we went with SQLite
14:15 Calinou you can still use Redis if you want client-server database
14:15 Calinou which is the trendy one
14:16 Calinou we used to use sectors
14:16 Calinou ie. flat files to disk, before 0.2_20110922
14:17 technomancy yeah, I'm of the opinion that database choices are like exes.
14:17 technomancy err--other peoples' database choices are like other peoples' exes.
14:17 technomancy you don't have the whole story, and you don't want the whole story.
14:19 Telesight CAlinou thanks I will dive into it ...
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14:22 exio4 technomancy: it's just that the hipster hype nowdays is "dude, X is crap, we MUST replace it", so they replace it with something untested, unproven, and crappy, and we end with something else that sucks even more \o/
14:23 technomancy exio4: yes but mysql *is* crap
14:23 technomancy you just need to replace it with postgres =D
14:23 exio4 I didn't say it wasn't
14:23 exio4 sure
14:23 exio4 I am talking about "SQL is the worst, NoSQL is da best!1!!"
14:23 exio4 mongodb is web scale while we are at it
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14:28 technomancy mongodb is hilarious
14:29 exio4 do you know what I hate most
14:30 exio4 the whole talk about "performance tradeoffs" and talking like they are not worth it
14:31 exio4 I am not saying they are worth it everytime you can do it
14:32 exio4 but if you are looking at that, it may be
14:32 exio4 anyway, Redis keeps everything in RAM?
14:32 exio4 what's the overhead?
14:35 technomancy we used redis for a couple things at my last gig
14:35 technomancy at one point the redis server process's uptime was longer than any of us had been at the company
14:36 technomancy is it just me, or is the hardest thing about getting people to take minetest seriously the fact that it's named "minetest"?
14:37 ElectronLibre Specifically the "test" at the end? Yes, it is.
14:37 technomancy "Yeah, I've been playing this FOSS minecraft-like game; it's really easy to mod and runs faster than minecraft on my box." / "Really, what's it called" / "err---actually... um. minetest. but it's actually really cool, trust me"
14:38 technomancy followed by an extremely skeptical look
14:39 Calinou not worse than “Terasology” whose 25% of people only manage to spell it right :P
14:45 technomancy I've done a bit of searching looking to see if anyone's done a mod to teach lua programming (or programming in general) using minetest
14:46 technomancy haven't found anything yet, but I wonder if such a thing would be well-received
14:47 Amaz This isn't a mod, but it's a great resource for starting to mod: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/
14:47 FreeFull Minetest on android doesn't seem to be too stable
14:48 technomancy Amaz: yeah... that seems kinda like the inverse
14:48 technomancy learning to program in order to learn to mod, instead of learning to mod in order to learn to program
14:48 technomancy related but different
14:49 Amaz Ah, okay.
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14:52 technomancy I've read some threads of people saying how cool it would be to use minetest in education, but that's as far as it's gone
14:53 CWz EduTest
14:53 FreeFull minelearn
14:54 CWz dirt + dirt = 2 dirt
14:54 technomancy I started making some challenges and stuff in computercraft with its Lua turtles, but I got kind of uncomfortable sinking a lot of effort into a platform that's not free software
14:55 CWz i do not understand how minetest can be used for education
14:55 technomancy CWz: have you heard of Logo?
14:56 FreeFull Turtle graphics
14:56 FreeFull I want to give writing a minetest map generator a go at some point
14:56 CWz isn't turtle kind of old
14:57 * DusXMT would just throw Python in classrooms; it's easy to pick up, and it can teach the kids many important things
14:57 technomancy http://el.media.mit.edu/logo-foundation/logo/
14:58 technomancy CWz: exactly. a turtle that can just draw lines feels pretty dated. what about a turtle that can place blocks and dig mines?
14:58 technomancy "For most people, learning Logo is not an end in itself, and programming is always about something. Logo programming activities are in mathematics, language, music, robotics, telecommunications, and science."
14:59 technomancy DusXMT: I don't find that "just throw X in a classroom" ever works out well. learning happens when children want to explore a topic, not when adults talk at them.
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15:00 exio4 CWz: programming is more about the logical thinking needed for it
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15:00 exio4 DusXMT: Python is a badly designed language though
15:00 exio4 DusXMT: it sure looks cute, yet it lots of simple things really wrong
15:01 DusXMT exio4: might be, I don't use it myself, I just propagate what I've heard
15:01 technomancy if I were going to teach in a conventional context I would use Racket; it has excellent literature and approachable tooling
15:02 exio4 I agree with technomancy
15:02 technomancy but I'm willing to use Lua even if it's not quite as nice if it captures the kids' imaginations
15:02 exio4 I like lua as it is a simple language :P
15:04 technomancy I was delighted to learn it has TCO =)
15:04 bordon And what about scratch in kid's education?
15:04 technomancy you don't even have to teach loops!
15:04 technomancy bordon: scratch is fantastic for very early learners
15:04 technomancy (FWIW Logo is considered an ancestor of Scratch)
15:04 technomancy I know of nothing better for kids who don't know how to type
15:04 bordon I'm not programmer but scratch looks very simply
15:05 DusXMT technomancy: I think you're right; I guess I just have bad memories about turtle since out computer teachers were incapable back when I was at elementary school...
15:05 FreeFull I wonder how difficult it is to move on from Scratch to something more complex/traditional
15:05 technomancy bordon: it's very good for exploring mathematical concepts like velocity or gravity
15:06 bordon my dauther has it in her school
15:06 bordon she is 12 :)
15:07 technomancy DusXMT: understandable. if you're stuck in a class and the instructor can't muster up enthusiasm for a topic you might as well not be there IMO.
15:07 technomancy bordon: does she like it?
15:07 Thron joined #minetest
15:07 bordon she not but me - very
15:07 technomancy heh
15:07 technomancy bordon: maybe if the two of you step through and build something together it would help
15:08 Thron hi, anyone have a idea why LinuxGaming server off??
15:08 bordon technomancy: I'll try, thats very good idea
15:08 technomancy bordon: I know of some folks who have had a lot of success building something based around something the kids are already into
15:08 technomancy bordon: like getting some sprites from Frozen imported into Scratch or something
15:09 technomancy maybe even some mp3s
15:09 Thron where can im  find Miner_48er
15:11 TheWild joined #minetest
15:11 CWz Miner_48er is not on now. maybe in a few hours. seems that the entire vps is down. so I guess someone forgot to pay bills
15:12 Thron o crap... dont sound good. I really must get a backup of the world... PUT ALLOT OFF WORK into mt buildings :(
15:12 hmmmm joined #minetest
15:13 Thron CWz, do you know miner personaly. cant you give a email.
15:13 CWz I don't
15:13 Thron cant find any admin. Lazy also gone :(
15:14 Thron noob101
15:15 tpe joined #minetest
15:16 Thron any of them online or someone no them?
15:16 ElectronLibre In my opinion you would more likely find them on InchraNet rather than here.
15:16 Thron LazyJ
15:16 Thron Mind
15:16 Thron Miner_48er
15:16 Thron Orby (server owner)
15:16 Thron Sokomine
15:16 Thron was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected.
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15:19 VanessaE LinuxGaming server is not, as far as I know, on Inchra.
15:19 VanessaE (or rather, hasn't been)
15:19 technomancy I'm sure this has been discussed, but would it make sense to drop new minetest players into a world that's pre-populated with some kind of in-game explanation of the way minetest is structured around mods and stuff?
15:19 Thron joined #minetest
15:19 technomancy seems like otherwise people are just going to judge it based on minetest_game which kinda misses the point
15:19 Calinou there's a Tutorial world made by Wuzzy
15:19 ElectronLibre Maybe not VanessaE, but its admins ight be on it.
15:19 Thron Electronic im new to this, can you direct me there?
15:20 VanessaE true enough
15:20 technomancy Calinou: right... you kinda need to go digging for it though
15:20 ElectronLibre For example, I know Miner_48 always connect on Inhcra in the afternoon.
15:20 ElectronLibre (at evening her in France)
15:21 Thron thx.. but were and how do i get there. I am really new to this irc stuff :(
15:22 ElectronLibre Ok.
15:22 ElectronLibre So, you're using XChat.
15:22 Thron yes :)
15:22 Thron is here better than Xchat?
15:23 ElectronLibre Open the server list first, then click on add. Enter "InchraNet" as name (you may put anything it would be the same), then select it, and click modify.
15:23 Thron i am on windows
15:23 ElectronLibre I would say.. HexChat, its maintened OpenSource non-shareware fork.
15:25 ElectronLibre In the configuration window for InchraNet : address : irc.inchra.net/6667 (or irc.inchra.net:6697 if you enable SSL, don't forget if you do so, to click "Ignore invalid certificates").
15:27 Sokomine Thron: how can i help you?
15:28 Thron ok something happing now :)
15:28 Sokomine what's up? i don't have much time right now
15:29 Sokomine ah. that the server is offline...i'm sure lazyj will bring it up again as soon as possible
15:29 Thron Soko what is going on with Linuxgaming?
15:29 Sokomine it's some extended maintenance. lazyj wrote about it in the forum post
15:30 Thron Soko.. really i put in allot in building there.. can i have a backup of my world. just incase :(
15:30 Thron i browsed forum.. nothing :(
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15:32 Sokomine Thron: have a bit of patience, please. and when it comes back up, remember to enable local map saving in your client. just add "enable_local_map_saving = true", and all you see on servers you join will be saved on your disk
15:32 Sokomine i can't do anything right now. i'll ask lazyj about the current status later when i have more time
15:32 Thron Soko, if its just for single player.. just to have a backup of it :) BIG PLEASE :)
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15:33 WSDguy2014 Guys, i can't find mod "Orespawn" by Calinou. Can help me?
15:33 Thron thx got that message Soko. ill dig into that command line
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15:49 Thron Soko you still online?
16:03 TheWild I think we need few additional operations for texture manipulation. In some cases modders wish to create same block, though with many different colors (e.g. 20 colors of grass). It is however not very convenient to create 20 different texutres.
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16:03 TheWild Nice thing would be multiplication `*` which multiplies each of the RGB channels from one texture with RGB channels with another, not necessarily texture.
16:03 TheWild Then one could draw a white/gray grass and make it green by doing "grass.png*([colorize:#80FF80])"
16:04 TheWild Also, addition `+` and subtraction `-` could help if someone wants to brighten/darken texture without increasing/decreasing its contrast.
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16:36 Calinou I never made that mod, ws
16:37 ElectronLibre He might be talking about moreores then.
16:38 sfan5 TheWild: why not just grass.png^[colorize:#80FF80
16:39 TheWild colorize does not do it's job very well because of bringing it's own alpha channel to it. I mean even completely black points become greener what wouldn't happen with multiplication
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16:48 TheWild even without additional parameter [colorize overlays texture completely
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17:11 TheWild Why throwing was made the way it requires more "effort" to throw single item than to throw whole stack. Don't you think this may cause annoying accidents?
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17:21 est31 ?
17:21 est31 on android?
17:22 TheWild no, I meant that Q throws whole stack instead of throwing single item
17:22 TheWild consider: I want to give some guy single item so I'm intuitively pressing Q and... crap, the guy took whole stack. Grrrr...!
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17:26 Xack aw
17:27 Xack TIL really big images (32MB) crashes the MT server
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17:32 Sokomine Thron: no, it's not a command line. it's a setting for your minetest.conf  and will save all worlds you visit to your local disc. while i'm pretty sure that linuxgaming.us will be up soon again, other servers tend to just vanish with all the buildings on them
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17:34 Sokomine thewild: use an exchange chest. that's usually less trouble. and place your drop command on soemthing you're less likely to press. for me, L is drop (for "loose item")
17:34 desvox I've updated my OreWood mod, if anyone is interested. Now you can grow and harvest ore too. https://github.com/desvox/orewood
17:35 Sokomine orewood? :-) sounds funny
17:36 desvox Sokomine: It is...unusual.
17:36 desvox I was sick of digging though.
17:38 CWz is it possible for a mod to turn a player invisible completely
17:38 Xack hi
17:38 Xack anybody managed to increase MAX_RELIABLE_WINDOW_SIZE successfully?
17:38 TheWild Sokomine: the dropping is not only for giving stuff to other player. It's something that I think should be fixed, since it's more intuitive to just press some key to drop single item and use additional modifier key like emphasis to throw whole stack.
17:39 TheWild Sokomine: modifier key should generally not mean "prevent"
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17:41 TheWild CWz: maybe by overriding its texture to completely transparent or altering its visual_size
17:45 TheWild desvox: and this is nice idea
17:48 desvox TheWild: Thanks! This is actually my first mod. I've been brainstorming them for god knows how long, and I'm finally going to start cranking them out. I've been putting this off too long.
17:49 TheWild finally renewable coal and diamonds
17:49 Calinou CWz, no, name tag will always appear
17:53 ElectronLibre Remove the player entity.
17:54 ElectronLibre player:remove() is maybe a bad idea, but will make the player completly invisible. I recall it worked for me with 0.4.9, and the deleted client could still walk/interact.
17:54 TheWild Calinou: I'm not sure. I played on one server on which skins mod seemed messed up and it sometimes made a player without texture, even without name tag.
17:54 TheWild I'm testing something related right now
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18:01 Sokomine TheWild: i don't know. whenever i want to drop just a single item, i put that single item into an extra slot first
18:02 ElectronLibre Sneak + drop <= Drop a single item.
18:03 TheWild Sokomine: as you can see, it's workaround - still quite impractical
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18:09 TheWild if someone likes to test random scripts at runtime, here is 16-liner: https://github.com/beyondlimits/min​etest-console/blob/master/init.lua
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18:49 Krock TheWild, why not tabs?
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18:59 TheWild Krock: tabs?
19:00 jojoa1997|Linux joined #minetest
19:00 Krock TheWild, the 'dynamic space', mostly written as '\t'
19:02 TheWild oh, this. I switched my editor to always use spaces, because... well, I don't remember the case right now.
19:02 Calinou >2015 >tabs
19:02 est31 minetest uses tabs
19:03 Calinou my Web projects use 2-spaces now
19:03 Calinou way more readable than 4 spaces, also spaces are the only kind of indentation that shows universally
19:03 exio4 tabs fail badly
19:03 exio4 est31: sadly
19:04 est31 exio4, explain
19:04 exio4 they can't be used for alignment
19:04 exio4 => you need to rely on spaces
19:04 exio4 => you have to mix them
19:04 est31 or you dont align
19:05 est31 source code isnt ascii art
19:05 exio4 sounds like a nice solution to a problem
19:05 Krock pls4 4 space-long tabs.
19:06 Calinou yeah, use spaces to align, good practice
19:07 est31 so yes if you want to align you have to use spaces
19:07 est31 we have this problem in the android makefile
19:08 est31 because there we have tabs at the left, and spaces at the right
19:08 est31 horrible
19:08 est31 if just git wouldnt complain when you mixed them
19:09 est31 spaces are bad because they are illocical
19:10 est31 tabs are logical
19:10 est31 you just state "this is indented"
19:10 est31 not "here are two spaces"
19:10 est31 or three
19:11 est31 so basically its not tabs vs spaces
19:11 est31 but tabs vs 1 space, vs 2 spaces, vs 3 spaces and so on
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19:14 TheWild I can't even ask google about why I switched to spaces long time ago
19:14 TheWild normally at work I'm using tabs
19:14 exio4 I got tired of not being able to make my look nice :p
19:15 exio4 and switching to languages which pretty much disallow using tabs nicely..
19:15 exio4 made me fully convert
19:15 est31 ?
19:15 exio4 est31: F# disallows tabs, GHC considers tab as 8 spaces
19:16 est31 what the hell
19:16 est31 why does f# do that
19:17 exio4 one of the sane things of the language 8)
19:17 hmmmm tabs vs. spaces is a very political issue
19:18 hmmmm tabs ultimately win out for me because of one simple reason:  you have choice.
19:18 est31 ^
19:18 est31 (^ for the political part)
19:18 exio4 hmmmm: it's a false sense of choice
19:18 hmmmm i have pretty bad eyesight.  2 space indents are simply too hard for me to visually differentiate.  i prefer 4 space indentations, but that might be too much for somebody else
19:18 est31 I have ported csrp to tabs because the space identation differed from level to level
19:19 hmmmm they don't like 4 spaces?
19:19 est31 so the first level was idented by 4 spaces
19:19 est31 err 3
19:19 hmmmm that's okay, they can just reduce it
19:19 est31 all folowing levels were idented by 4 spaces
19:19 est31 this is where I said, no thank you
19:20 hmmmm all of my projects will always be tabs
19:20 hmmmm i will never consider spaces.
19:20 hmmmm i will never work on projects with spaces either.
19:20 Calinou haters gonna hate
19:21 est31 I can understand hmmmm.
19:24 exio4 sure
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19:25 est31 the issue with tabs is the tabstop
19:26 est31 if tabs just were simple "ident with a constant number of spaces", you could safely mix tabs with spaces
19:26 est31 and then get alignment
19:27 hmmmm that's the way they almost always work with code editors
19:27 est31 it hasn't been the original way
19:28 hmmmm besides, mixing spaces with tabs just can't be done by principle
19:28 est31 why
19:28 hmmmm "a disadvantage of tabs is that you can't mix it with spaces"
19:28 hmmmm well what about spaces
19:28 hmmmm "a disadvantage with spaces is that you can't mix it with tabs"
19:28 exio4 no, it's just that tabs only do one thing decently, and that's identation
19:29 exio4 spaces can be used for that and alignment
19:29 exio4 it's more like that if you want to align your code, you'll need to mix or give up the reality of being able to switch the tab size
19:29 est31 true
19:31 est31 you can't mix tabs with spaces because of the tabstop
19:31 est31 even this admits it: http://www.emacswiki.org/e​macs/TabsAreEvil#BadStyle
19:31 exio4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi​le:Elastictabstops_animation.gif
19:32 est31 about ^: https://xkcd.com/927/
19:32 exio4 est31: that's what I thought too :>
19:33 TheWild there are cases when tabs fail unfortunately: http://pastebin.com/V7r1Jt0D
19:33 Calinou why would you use tabs in 2015? that's the real question
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19:34 exio4 TheWild: that's alignment
19:34 exio4 it doesn't help if your language cares about the layout
19:34 Calinou the only sensible reason is using it on existing projects
19:34 Calinou I'll keep using 4-tabs on my Minetest mods as it's the standard
19:35 est31 Calinou, whats your reason why you prefer spaces?
19:36 est31 spaces force my editor to do smart things for me
19:36 est31 or I type 4 times backspace when I remove a tab level
19:36 est31 ok thats a shit argument
19:36 est31 disregard that
19:37 exio4 I think even nano handles that?
19:37 exio4 maybe not, I am not sure
19:40 Calinou yeah, all good editors handle them as “soft tabs”
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19:42 TenPlus1 Hi folks...  any devs available to help me with a constant std:bad_alloc error ?
19:43 Calinou they're in #minetest-dev
19:43 Calinou but make an issue on GitHub or forum first
19:43 TenPlus1 I have done that already and no joy...
19:43 TenPlus1 and minetest-dev wont let me post to the room
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19:45 est31 TenPlus1, in order to post on minetest-dev, you have to get a "proper" chat client
19:45 TenPlus1 oh, so the forum link wont let me chat there...  would xchat do ?
19:46 est31 yes
19:46 est31 or hexchat
19:46 * est31 uses hexchat
19:46 TenPlus1 is that the java one ?
19:46 est31 no, its based on xchat
19:47 est31 because oss development on xchat stopped
19:47 est31 (dead client)
19:47 TenPlus1 ah kewl, will check that one... thanks
19:47 ElectronLibre It's a maintened fork basically.
19:47 est31 yes
19:47 TenPlus1 lol, all this to find out what's causing an error...  *adventure!!!*
19:48 est31 you said the error were "constant". This usually means its fixable.
19:50 TenPlus1 I hope so, the players on the server are getting very annoyed...  if it were a mod then I could at least find it myself...
19:53 TenPlus1 ahh, hexchat :) bye
19:53 exio4 est31: lol
19:55 TheWild I was testing hexchat for a while today but it seems it does not allow me to connect to two servers simultaneously
19:57 exio4 it does
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20:08 TheWild_ hexchat: what a great piece of software. My identification failed because it spammed me about #hexchat channel. Now I have to wait 15 minutes to have my nickname available again.
20:11 Amaz TheWild_, try /msg nickserv regain TheWild password
20:12 desvox I'm actually using thunderbird's IRC client =P
20:12 desvox I usually use Irssi but figured why the fuck not.
20:16 TheWild_ is "chat.freenode.net" correct address or should I left only "irc.freenode.net"?
20:16 ElectronLibre It's the same;
20:17 ElectronLibre irc.freenode.net sends you to the original address (chat.freenode.net).
20:18 TheWild_ " No Ident response", "TheWild is already in use. Retrying with ...", "No nickname given"
20:18 ElectronLibre No ident response : Don't care, it's not that useful.
20:19 ElectronLibre TheWild is already in use : Impossible.
20:19 ElectronLibre See with /whois TheWild
20:21 TheWild oh good, I brought back myself on webchat
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21:06 paigegirl hi :)\
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22:45 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Schematics: Add per-node force placement option 2b99d90 http://git.io/vUsFP (2015-05-09T18:44:00-04:00)
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