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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-12-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:13 Inocudom Those winds outside my house make it sound like there is a hurricane out there.
00:17 coagen left #minetest
00:18 Inocudom Take a look at this wind map: http://hint.fm/wind/
00:19 Inocudom Major storm activity on both coasts. Bad December were having so far, but then life in general is bad on Earth.
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04:37 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Noise: Automatically transform noise maps if needed 16baed0 http://git.io/X1D0YA (2014-12-10T23:35:37-05:00)
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05:21 exio4 hell yeah
05:42 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: NodeResolver: Fix cancelNode and cancelNodeList c07f15e http://git.io/WZRqNQ (2014-12-11T00:41:54-05:00)
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07:54 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Clean up Noise macros fb80a7c http://git.io/HPIfLA (2014-12-11T02:53:10-05:00)
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10:48 ziggy909 hi
10:48 ziggy909 which open source mc clone is farthest in development?
10:49 ziggy909 most important features being, proper monsters with ai, weapon renderer, multiplayer for many players without lag
10:52 ziggy909 does minetest have monsters?
10:53 ziggy909 and how many players does it support on a nice quad core vps?
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11:04 ziggy909 seems minetest has nice monsters
11:05 ziggy909 so my questions would boil down to: how many players does minetest support?
11:46 ThatGraemeGuy how long is a piece of string? :)
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13:04 kaeza mornings
13:04 Jordach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis‚Äčt_of_lists_of_lists#Miscellaneous
13:04 Jordach >Lists of lists of lists
13:04 Jordach oh god it goes deeper
13:05 kaeza that's what she said
13:05 kaeza wait what
13:05 ThatGraemeGuy ūüėŹ
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13:20 Jordach wow
13:21 Jordach this monitor has frozen over pixels
13:42 Jordach or not
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14:07 Jordach well shit
14:07 Jordach we got a dead LCD backlight
14:09 Jordach time to buy some cheap white LEDs and a 3v power supply
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15:11 Karlton serverlist is down?
15:13 Karlton "ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Couldn't connect to server) (response code 0)"
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15:28 Jordach sfan5!
15:28 sfan5 Jordach!
15:28 Jordach we have masterlist issues again
15:28 Jordach go fix
15:28 PenguinDad Someone else!
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15:30 * Jordach goes to make a kitty model
15:30 sfan5 Jordach: there was a 30 min maintenance scheduled at 13:00 CET and there were some problems
15:30 sfan5 Karlton: yes
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16:44 Calinou Taoki, https://github.com/minetest/minetest‚Äč_game/pull/312#issuecomment-66513416 ‚Üí in this case I can set walking speed to 4.3 and sneaking to 1.4 :/
16:45 Calinou still feels too slow since there is no sprinting
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16:52 ElectronLibre Hello everyone, I was just wondering, am I the only one who have seen this typo : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/‚Äčblob/master/mods/default/furnace.lua#L136 (sorry if I bother you).
16:53 * Jordach meows at Pilz
17:02 Calinou https://lut.im/l2Ak3Agq/6q4nSNYr
17:02 * catninja meows at Jordach
17:02 Calinou :/
17:02 Calinou fullbright, low FPS
17:03 * PenguinDad meows at Mushroom
17:03 Calinou ElectronLibre, https://github.com/minetes‚Äčt/minetest_game/issues/377 ‚áí I reported it
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17:04 AgentFire What is the full screen button for Minetest?
17:04 Jordach this is no fun: https://i.imgur.com/OpciWzf.jpg
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17:05 Jordach AgentFire, fullscreen = true \n screenW = <your screen's width> screenH = <your screen's height>
17:05 Jordach those lines in minetest.conf
17:06 AgentFire Yikes, that's going to require notepad. Which is a program that has been blocked on my computer. But I'll keep this in mind, thank you
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17:06 Jordach AgentFire, /set fullscreen true
17:07 Jordach /set screenW <number>
17:07 Jordach /set screenH <number>
17:07 Jordach and restart
17:07 AgentFire Alright, thank you so much for your help
17:07 Jordach (or you can use Word or Wordpad to edit said files)
17:07 Krock hi
17:08 AgentFire One last question
17:08 AgentFire When you say with the height and width, do you mean in inches, or do you mean the numbers I'm seeing on the side of the box. (1366 x 768)
17:08 Krock Pixels!
17:09 Jordach pixels
17:09 AgentFire Oh okay, then, that makes it easier
17:09 Krock lol. inches would be a mess - using cm here
17:09 Jordach https://lut.im/4M8giDbN/56pE5IMv AgentFire
17:10 Calinou AgentFire, you may need /set -n
17:10 Calinou to create unexisting settings in minetest.conf
17:10 Calinou eg. /set -n fullscreen 1
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17:12 AgentFire Okay, I know I have a lot of questions but...
17:12 Calinou ask them :)
17:12 AgentFire When you have a skype call, there's the little call box that appears outside of the skype window. Would that show up if I was skyping someone and playing on Minetest at the same time?
17:13 Calinou Skype :(
17:13 Calinou in fullscreen, notifications should show
17:13 Calinou but no guarantees
17:13 Jordach AgentFire, yes
17:13 catninja skype *cringes*
17:13 Jordach it can appear on top of a rendering window
17:14 Jordach (anything can, provided it has on top of window ability
17:14 Jordach ((mt's fullscreen is a borderless window)))
17:14 AgentFire Thanks for your help. Btw, why is skype such a bad thing guys?
17:14 rubenwardy Hi all!
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17:16 catninja AgentFire: collaborating with dictatorships, own by microsoft, propritary code, collaboration with nsa (etc)
17:16 catninja they have a special skype edition for china with backdoors for the government
17:17 catninja AgentFire: need more reasons to look for an alternative? ;)
17:17 AgentFire Nah, but then again I can't
17:18 AgentFire It's the only way I keep in contact with my girlfriend, so... I'll have to take my chances
17:18 catninja because?
17:18 catninja aha
17:18 catninja and you cannot convince your girlfriend to make changes in communication? (just asking)
17:18 Calinou http://tox.im/
17:19 AgentFire Nah, it's too complicated. She's not very technologically smart
17:20 Calinou Tox probably isn't too hard to use, except the DNS part
17:21 catninja AgentFire: well the greatest thing about relationships is learning things from the other part
17:22 * Jordach purrs at sfan5_
17:23 Jordach >screenshot of tox.im
17:23 Jordach >https://cdn.mediacru.sh/H/HEemy4jaiw2b.png actual look
17:26 Calinou Jordach's Phone
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17:27 Calinou Jordach, is it possible to set Tox to decline phone/video calls?
17:27 Jordach Calinou, maybe
17:28 Krock MTB?
17:28 Krock servers.minetest.net ?
17:28 Krock sfan5_!
17:29 PenguinDad Krock?
17:29 Krock Jordach, is Toc better than the classic IRC?
17:29 Krock PenguinDad?
17:29 Jordach Krock, nao
17:29 Krock *Tox
17:30 PenguinDad Krock: Tox uses much more bandwith than IRC
17:30 Calinou Tox isn't made for mass-scale chats
17:30 Krock PenguinDad, that's bad. LET'S SAVE SOME BANDWITH BY WRITTING IN BIG LETTERS
17:30 PenguinDad in fact it uses half of my download :(
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17:35 shadowzone the nazi is here!
17:35 shadowzone AHHH!
17:35 ElectronLibre ._.?
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17:35 Krock _._?
17:35 Jordach u wot m8
17:35 shadowzone Exio4
17:36 exio4 I can't deny nor confirm those rumors
17:36 miner59 hi, I think serverslist has a problem
17:36 ElectronLibre I don't understand you there shadowzone ...
17:36 miner59 can't reach it
17:36 shadowzone ElectronLibre: exio4 on another channels says nazi all the time
17:36 miner59 or did you know already?
17:36 shadowzone so his nickname is "the nazi"
17:37 exio4 I don't say "nazi"
17:37 PenguinDad miner59: you're not the first one to notice it
17:37 ElectronLibre I see... 0-0
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17:37 Topic for #minetest is now Latest stable version is 0.4.10 | The serverlist is down for maintenance. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | Logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ | Use https://mediacru.sh for images and http://pastie.org for text
17:37 exio4 I make jokes about the holocaust, the final solution, but I don't say nazi all the time, it is mostly references to nazi germany and then, trivia-like info about the NG from wikipedia
17:38 Krock Jordach: help calc
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17:38 Krock Jordach: question "Are you a bot?"
17:38 Jordach meep meep
17:38 PenguinDad beep boop
17:38 miner59 ok thanks, so we wait till it is back
17:38 ElectronLibre exio4, is there anything funny about the holocaust or the final solution? ._.
17:38 Krock I'd say that's a yes
17:38 exio4 ElectronLibre, everything is funny
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17:39 Jordach ElectronLibre, yes, i'd quite like the soloution to my sudoku right now
17:39 ElectronLibre You can laugh of everything, but not in front of everyone... :¬į
17:39 exio4 political correctness sucks
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17:42 * Jordach turns spotify to 11
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17:46 * ElectronLibre must be tired, he can see two sfan5 ._.
17:47 Jordach sfan5_, nya
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18:15 harrison I bought a pair of shoes from a drug dealer.
18:15 harrison I don't know what he laced them with...
18:15 harrison but I've been tripping all day!
18:15 harrison [rimshot]
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19:05 Jordach MinetestForFun's server is unusually low latency
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19:05 Jordach and at 1080p full screen i'm getting 90fps
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19:08 Megaf Calinou: Are you there?
19:09 Calinou yes
19:09 Calinou playing Minetest
19:09 Megaf Calinou: Why did you change how the placement of blocks from the circular saw work?
19:09 Megaf there are some ways of placing blocks that no longer work
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19:14 Megaf There is a very talented guy on my serve who uses the circular saw a lot, and he is totally lost now
19:14 shadowzone Megaf, huh?
19:14 Megaf huh what?
19:15 shadowzone what do you mean "lost"
19:15 shadowzone ?
19:15 Megaf before some update we could place, for example, "stairs" of several ways, now we are limited
19:15 Megaf shadowzone: because the way those items are placed have changed
19:15 shadowzone oh..
19:16 Megaf if you wanted it on its left side, you could place it to the wall at your right, for example
19:16 Megaf and now is all different
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19:16 Megaf shadowzone: I had to fork minetest_game and make a mod from screw driver only so he could wordaround this issue
19:18 shadowzone oh, cool.
19:21 Megaf Calinou: Or could this be a Minetest fault again?
19:22 Calinou when did I change it?
19:22 Calinou like… a year ago
19:22 Calinou if you don't hold shift, placement is normal
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19:22 Calinou if you hold shift, placement is inverted (wall-based if floor or ceiling, floor-based if wall)
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19:24 Krock #needsLinuxHelp https://forum.minetest.net/v‚Äčiewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=10727
19:28 * Krock haz 2222 posts
19:28 shadowzone Try check to see if he has the same mod in two places
19:29 Megaf Calinou: Would you join my server to talk to daZe? He can better explain the issue
19:29 Megaf Calinou: where are you from? If you are German you can speak to him in German
19:29 Calinou what is the IP?
19:29 Calinou no, I'm French
19:30 Megaf Calinou: mt.megaf.info 300003
19:30 Megaf 30003
19:34 Calinou sfan5, can you explain MinetestForFun how to set up a Web server for media?
19:36 sfan5 Calinou: not right now; here's the basic thing: install webserver, run this script [1], put the files the script produced into web root   [1]: https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560
19:37 Megaf Calinou:
19:37 Megaf 14:36:17: ACTION[ServerThread]: Calinou leaves game. List of players: daZe
19:37 Megaf 14:36:19: ACTION[ServerThread]: CHAT: <daZe> actually :) ur block placment methods are really well done :)
19:37 Calinou I have the same problem in local game
19:37 Calinou so I should change them or not?
19:38 Megaf Yes, you should please
19:38 Megaf if you could understand what he said
19:39 Megaf 14:38:45: ACTION[ServerThread]: CHAT: <MegafAdmin> he asked if he should change the placement or not
19:39 Megaf 14:39:08: ACTION[ServerThread]: CHAT: <daZe> before it was really.. nearly perfect ^^
19:39 Megaf ^ Calinou
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19:40 Calinou crap…
19:40 Calinou minetest.rotate_node apparently changed
19:40 Calinou I have to define my own, probably
19:40 Megaf Minetests fault again then?
19:40 Calinou yes, I use the core function
19:41 Megaf crap
19:41 Megaf I was afraid of that when I took a look at your commits
19:41 Calinou using it isn't bad, but it does change sometimes
19:42 Megaf Calinou: using your own would be a lot of work
19:42 Megaf or not?
19:42 Calinou probably
19:43 Calinou builtin/common/misc_helpers.lua
19:43 Calinou this is where rotate_node is defined
19:43 Megaf hm
19:43 Calinou VanessaE, I'd like to get help for this, seems quite complicated to fix, no idea when it broke
19:43 Calinou don't expect an immediate fix
19:44 Calinou so for now you can't automatically place wall Stairs+ nodes… only slabs
19:44 Calinou but slabs use the same function…
19:44 Megaf I will try to track when its changed, and revert the change on my server
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19:47 Megaf maybe this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi‚Äčt/2fd14e1bd53918b3c4fcdfbc81294ff8b7afe1fa
19:47 Megaf !title
19:47 MinetestBot Megaf: Add Lua helper functions vector.apply(v) math.sign(x, tolerance) ·  2fd14e1 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
19:48 Calinou this doesn't modify rotate_node or any function it calls
19:48 Megaf oh, who knows..
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19:49 Megaf https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi‚Äčt/9878e8de4fdf232ebb77b396766c339786c01218
19:49 Megaf !title
19:49 MinetestBot Megaf: Adjust the values of dirs1 and dirs2 so that rotate_and_place orients te... ·  9878e8d · minetest/minetest · GitHub
19:49 Krock http://i.imgur.com/Fz2zTS7.png
19:49 Megaf Calinou ^
19:49 * Calinou facehoof
19:49 Calinou that must be it
19:50 Calinou can you revert and test?
19:50 Calinou it is server-side
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19:50 Megaf yep
19:52 rubenwardy http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/
19:52 VanessaE Calinou: G*d damn it, I KNEW that change would break something :(
19:52 VanessaE make a local copy of the function and change dirs1/2.
19:52 Calinou or have that commit reverted, although it is unlikely
19:52 VanessaE well, that commit DOES fix the slabs' texture rotation.
19:53 VanessaE somewhere along the way, something broke somewhere causing rotation of those slabs to go wrong
19:53 VanessaE idk what
19:53 VanessaE what happens to the stairs now?
19:54 Calinou they are either floor or ceiling
19:54 VanessaE er
19:54 Calinou they are ceiling if you hold Shift and place on floor
19:54 Calinou you can't place them as wall anymore
19:54 VanessaE dirs1/2 shouldn't change that?
19:54 VanessaE are you sure you're not forcing wall detection off by mistake?
19:54 Calinou it works on slabs
19:54 Calinou all on_place functions are minetest.rotate_node
19:55 VanessaE *sigh*
19:55 Calinou https://gitorious.org/calinou/morebloc‚Äčks/source/84ee1ffae8e17c00cc20c166556b‚Äč2fe39fa54c7c:stairsplus/slabs.lua#L71
19:55 Calinou https://gitorious.org/calinou/moreblock‚Äčs/source/84ee1ffae8e17c00cc20c166556b2f‚Äče39fa54c7c:stairsplus/stairs.lua#L112
19:55 Megaf Calinou: I reverted that, will see if it fixes
19:55 kaeza <Agent_Fire> Yikes, that's going to require notepad. Which is a program that has been blocked on my computer. But I'll keep this in mind, thank you
19:56 kaeza who the hell disables notepad?
19:56 VanessaE hrm
19:57 Calinou hell itself
19:57 * kaeza imagines of a clueless admin disabling notepad for the "Administrators" group
19:57 Megaf you can do dengerous stuff with it
19:58 VanessaE ok this tells me something in the engine broke then with the rotation of the textures.  you know very well that I wrung that code out every which way to Sunday before I submitted it to builtin
19:58 VanessaE and the patch that was added was wrong; my initial fear was correct.
19:59 VanessaE you're right, it needs to be reverted and the root cause found.
20:00 LazyJ WorldEdit has been slightly fubared in recent Minetest updates too.
20:01 VanessaE yeah, problems with rollback.
20:01 LazyJ The old //save creates something that //load refuses and will crash the world (but MT keeps running).
20:01 Megaf VanessaE: Calinou: Yep, I reverted that and it's fixed now
20:01 VanessaE "crash the world"?
20:01 Megaf sorry for blaming you Calinou
20:02 Megaf here is the chat log and actions related to this on my server
20:02 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/plain/136050
20:02 VanessaE LazyJ: can you please be more specific?  MichaelEh has been asking me to update his "Big Sight" build on Creative from files he saved....
20:02 Megaf Calinou: I will open a bug report
20:02 LazyJ Yup, instead of MT going "poof" all together, the world blinks out to the blue-sky/clouds animation with a list of errors.
20:03 VanessaE ok that's bad.
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20:03 LazyJ But... if MT is compiled *without* LuaJIT, WorldEdit's save and load work fine.
20:04 LazyJ I posted an issue on WE's GitHub, Uberi recommended compiling MT without LuaJIT.
20:04 LazyJ https://github.com/Uberi/Mi‚Äčnetest-WorldEdit/issues/67
20:05 Megaf Calinou: Can you open the issue please? You will be able to describe it better than me
20:05 Megaf This is the commit by the way https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi‚Äčt/9878e8de4fdf232ebb77b396766c339786c01218
20:05 Megaf dvere: I blame you :P
20:06 Calinou thanks
20:07 LazyJ Oh, and the 2014_12_06 GitHub release of Minetest breaks some of Splizzard's "Snow" mods functions... again.
20:07 VanessaE this could be worked around by allowing custom dirs1/dirs2 tables to be passed to the function but that's a hack around the real problem
20:07 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1939
20:08 Calinou I go, bye
20:08 Megaf Bye Calinou, thanks
20:08 LazyJ This time it won't crash the server, just somethings won't melt and snowballs no longer build-up into snow blocks.
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20:08 Megaf shadowzone: you can use my scrwdriver version instead of the default one if you wish, it's blue and noncrafttable
20:08 shadowzone Megaf: okay
20:09 Megaf or dont use it... Just letting you know about the existance of it :P
20:09 Megaf 1title
20:10 Megaf !title
20:10 MinetestBot Megaf: Facedir value adjustment breaks Stairs+ nodes&#39; wall rotation · Issue #1939 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
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20:19 LazyJ Gripes aside, MT has been running smoother since the recent updates.
20:22 PenguinDad Minetest now 20% smoother‚ĄĘ :P
20:23 LazyJ Growing pains.
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20:29 Megaf realbadangel: you have forgotten your upper case stuff
20:29 Jordach case closed
20:30 RealBadAngel megaf, thx :))
20:30 Megaf case reopened
20:30 RealBadAngel oops
20:31 RealBadAngel *Megaf
20:31 Megaf how do you call that thing to clip closes to that wire to dry them?
20:31 Megaf clip clothes*
20:31 Megaf hang them to dry them*
20:32 shadowzone Clothes pins or something like that
20:32 RealBadAngel klamerki
20:32 RealBadAngel in polish of course ;)
20:32 Megaf I have just broken one, my girlfriend will not like that, lol
20:32 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, have you looked at the screwdriver rewrite yet?
20:32 shadowzone XD
20:32 * Jordach always thought Megaf was a girl
20:32 Jordach Today I Learned
20:33 Megaf lol Jordach
20:33 shadowzone Jordach: *facepalms* I've known that forever now
20:33 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, a bit, theres one thing wrong wih it
20:33 RealBadAngel you have to read param2 and mask it
20:33 RealBadAngel upper bits can be used for other stuff
20:33 VanessaE PilzAdam: do ANY of these screwdriver rewrites allow for nodedef flags, groups, or something else that can tell the screwdriver to piss off?
20:34 PilzAdam VanessaE, what?
20:34 VanessaE (I have not reviewed any of them, and I know of perhaps three by now)
20:34 RealBadAngel VanessaE, no
20:34 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, did the old screwdriver mod do that?
20:34 RealBadAngel but it should be done
20:34 VanessaE PilzAdam: you know, as in...  ok, well there's my answer.
20:34 * MaleMegaf is using the scredriver rewrite on his server
20:34 MaleMegaf for a week or so
20:34 VanessaE PilzAdam: what I mean is, not to rotate certain nodes that have facedir.
20:34 LazyJ We added a priv to the screwdriver to keep untrusted players from using it.
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20:34 VanessaE e.g. objects composed of two or more nodes should NEVER allow such a rotation
20:34 MaleMegaf +1 to LazyJ
20:35 VanessaE but the screwdriver has no facility to be told not to allow it
20:35 RealBadAngel there should be a property like allow_screwdriver or dont_allow_screwdriver
20:35 PilzAdam VanessaE, could be done; out of scope for this PR though
20:35 RealBadAngel one of the above
20:35 MaleMegaf LazyJ: you can open an issue about it
20:35 VanessaE PilzAdam: oh sure.  just talking generally.
20:35 PilzAdam create an issue on mt_game?
20:35 VanessaE RealBadAngel: yeah, something like this.
20:35 VanessaE PilzAdam: I asked sfan5 about it months ago.
20:36 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, did the old screwdriver mod use masks to set/read param2?
20:36 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, many nodes made later can use parts (bits) of param2 not used before
20:36 VanessaE I even offered to code it.
20:36 LazyJ MaleMegaf, I think it was VanessaE who had the issue... nodes made of 2 or more.
20:36 RealBadAngel and that can be a problem
20:36 VanessaE my offer was basically hand-waved off as "we're too busy to care".
20:36 RealBadAngel screwdriver has to check them and preserve
20:36 MaleMegaf LazyJ: doors are made of two nodes
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20:36 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, did the old screwdriver mod use masks to set/read param2?
20:36 RealBadAngel which is the good point why we do need bit ops in lua
20:37 LazyJ Yup, doors get split.
20:37 MaleMegaf doors shoudnt even be rotated...
20:37 LazyJ But that hasn't been a problem for us since the "twist" priv was added to the screwdriver.
20:37 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, i made drawtypes use those bits after screwdriver was made
20:37 VanessaE LazyJ: homedecor desks, deck chairs, waterwells, etc.
20:37 PilzAdam ;_; why wont you answer my question?
20:37 RealBadAngel read above
20:38 RealBadAngel screwdriver is not aware of it
20:38 RealBadAngel neither original and the rewrite
20:38 PilzAdam so the answer is "no"?
20:38 RealBadAngel param2 when used have to be masked
20:39 RealBadAngel it is since always in the engine
20:39 LazyJ Actually, I wouldn't mind being able to rotate doors horizontally to make overhead cabinet doors and tailgates on trucks and wagons.
20:39 PilzAdam if the old screwdriver didn't do this then it's out of scope for the rewrite
20:39 RealBadAngel in mods it is not, because theres no simple way to do that
20:39 PilzAdam you can create an issue in minetest_game repo if you want
20:39 PilzAdam I will address this after the rewrite was merged
20:40 RealBadAngel rewrite should not carry the bugs further
20:40 RealBadAngel theres no excuse
20:40 PilzAdam out of scope period
20:40 RealBadAngel so you got the veto. period. ;)
20:40 MaleMegaf LazyJ: heh, that would be great indeed
20:40 MaleMegaf shadowzone: clothes-peg on the world and clothespin in USA
20:40 PilzAdam VanessaE, what about a rotate_node function in nodedef, that allows custom rotation of nodes? so door can be rotated, but properly
20:41 MaleMegaf LazyJ: Im still wating for single node trap door
20:41 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, good thing you don't have a vote-right at minetest_game
20:41 MaleMegaf I might do that soon
20:42 VanessaE PilzAdam: allow_screwdriver.  if explicitly set to false, screwdriver can't used on this node.  if nil or true, assume the current behavior.
20:42 VanessaE or disable_screwdriver = true
20:42 VanessaE either of those would make it obvious
20:43 PilzAdam VanessaE, the function would have way more potential
20:43 VanessaE but a function? no.  that's overkill.
20:43 PilzAdam and nodes that don't want rotation at all could just set an empty function
20:43 VanessaE no.
20:43 PilzAdam door should be able to be rotated; but both nodes at once
20:43 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, i dont even want to contribute to mt game at all. things you have done to it are overkill
20:43 VanessaE that's just overkill
20:43 VanessaE just use a group in the node def.
20:43 VanessaE keep it simple!
20:44 RealBadAngel there are better games than minetest_game out there
20:44 LazyJ Doors rotated as a whole, not split, and rotating wood fences horizontally to simulate rope on ships, or as a walkable grid, and as over head roof in gazebo's.
20:44 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, "all things you have done" which ones?
20:45 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, remember group stone? and furnaces being able to make from every stone out there for example?
20:45 PilzAdam yes?
20:46 PilzAdam adding furnace for each stone type would be overkill
20:46 RealBadAngel since there you have pissed on my opinion roughly, so i was a bit suprised you are asking me about screwdriver. but you have pissed on my opinion once again
20:47 RealBadAngel so nothing changed :P
20:47 PilzAdam what?
20:47 PilzAdam you said the screwdriver is good, except one thing that is out of scope for this
20:47 RealBadAngel i said it is broken :P
20:47 RealBadAngel because of one fundamental thing
20:48 PilzAdam okay, let me rephrase my question
20:48 VanessaE well I dunno.
20:48 PilzAdam did the screwdriver become _worse_?
20:48 RealBadAngel but you said its out of scope, so whatever
20:48 VanessaE PilzAdam: it IS titled "screwdriver *rewrite*"
20:48 PilzAdam i.e. apart from the param2 thing
20:48 VanessaE does not a "rewrite" suggest a pretty much indefinite scope?
20:49 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, MAIN point of screwdriver is to let players change param2
20:49 PilzAdam VanessaE, does it?
20:49 RealBadAngel this is param2 tool for christ sake
20:49 RealBadAngel if its not able to do it right, it screwed ;)
20:49 VanessaE PilzAdam: to most people I know, yeah.  when you rewrite something you usually open the door for a minor feature or two in the process.
20:49 VanessaE RealBadAngel: don't you mean "it screwdrivered"? ;)
20:50 RealBadAngel hehehe
20:50 PilzAdam VanessaE, it's titled incorrectly then; it only changes the way the player interacts with it
20:50 RealBadAngel onlY/
20:50 RealBadAngel ?
20:50 RealBadAngel it changes everything
20:50 VanessaE "remove unused variables" affects how the player interacts with it?
20:51 PilzAdam VanessaE, that is a minor code cleanup related to the commit that changes how the player interacts with it
20:51 PilzAdam the variable was not unused before the first commit
20:51 RealBadAngel there are no modes anymore
20:52 RealBadAngel it will lack the functionality
20:52 VanessaE PilzAdam: well my point there is that this pull clearly does more than just changing how the user interacts with the tool.
20:52 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, the great thing is that it doesn't need to have all these confusing modes and will still have the same functionality
20:52 VanessaE RealBadAngel: honestly, the mode-1-2-3-4 paradigm was confusing as all fuck :P
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20:53 RealBadAngel im not opposing to that
20:53 RealBadAngel i just got used to it
20:53 RealBadAngel so i pointed out only wrong param2 handling
20:53 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, can we do a thought-experiment?
20:54 RealBadAngel sure. is there a mod for that? ;)
20:54 PilzAdam imagine a world where param2 handling wouldn't be an issue for the screwdriver
20:54 PilzAdam would you agree to that pull requests in this imagined world?
20:54 RealBadAngel sadly there is no such world
20:55 VanessaE depends on how the user interface to the screwdriver is handled of course.
20:55 VanessaE but probably.
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20:55 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, you are doing it wrong
20:55 RealBadAngel hands off param2 bits 7, 6, 5 and 4
20:55 PilzAdam ;_;
20:55 RealBadAngel theyre reserved by engine and you as a modder should know that
20:56 VanessaE PilzAdam: also, you need to explain in your pull request just what exactly the new control system is
20:56 VanessaE I don't find anything that describes it
20:56 VanessaE is this the X-Y-Z axes method, or the left/right click method?
20:56 VanessaE or something new?
20:56 RealBadAngel atm im telling you that screwdriver code will be fucked up
20:56 RealBadAngel because of that
20:56 VanessaE looks like left/right clickjs
20:56 VanessaE -j
20:56 PilzAdam VanessaE, see the tooltip of the screwdriver
20:56 VanessaE +description = "Screwdriver (left-click rotates face, right-click rotates axis)",
20:57 RealBadAngel facedir is 0-23 so bits 0-3
20:57 VanessaE yeah, I saw that just as you mentioned it
20:57 RealBadAngel and those are only bits screwdriver can work on
20:57 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, are you seriously unable to judge the new interaction with the screwdriver and ignoring the param2 issue?
20:58 PilzAdam this is getting ridiculous by now
20:58 VanessaE still, you should probably copy&paste some of the text in PR 315 back to PR 375
20:58 VanessaE (just the lead paragraph anyway)
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20:59 PilzAdam VanessaE, IMO a link is enough
20:59 VanessaE PilzAdam: it's two links down.....
20:59 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, i said im ok with the code, but the issue i pointed HAS to be fixed
21:00 PilzAdam ah, so you are ok with it
21:00 PilzAdam great
21:00 RealBadAngel and now its the good point to do so
21:00 PilzAdam thats all I wanted to know
21:00 RealBadAngel just dont tell me its hard to preserve those bits :P
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21:25 john_minetest Hey
21:26 shadowzone hey
21:26 phantombeta joined #minetest
21:32 Jordach :O 40k frames rendered
21:41 electrodude512 joined #minetest
21:44 kaeza lol @ Krock's .sig
21:45 Jordach <Fungal Adam> like chocolate just different
21:45 VanessaE haha
21:45 Jordach -!- Translations provided by Solus
21:55 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, have you noticed that? <RealBadAngel> PilzAdam, btw, plants facedir2 is in range 0-179
21:55 PilzAdam maybe
21:56 RealBadAngel good.
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22:22 Lugal hi
22:22 Lugal how big are your world folders usually=
22:22 Lugal ?
22:22 VanessaE it depends
22:22 Lugal I mean for a single world?
22:22 VanessaE for some people, maybe a few hundred megs
22:22 VanessaE for a well-built-up world, 10+ gigs isn't uncommon
22:23 Lugal for me its 37 megs, though only 1 or 2 days work
22:23 Lugal or 3
22:23 Lugal but why so big?
22:23 VanessaE root@ks4006351:~# du -h /home/minetest/.minetest/worlds/ --max-depth=1
22:23 VanessaE ...
22:23 VanessaE 56G/home/minetest/.minetest/worlds/
22:23 VanessaE there are 8 worlds there, which are my production servers.
22:24 VanessaE the smallest is 306 MB.  the largest is 5.9 GB
22:24 Lugal 8 worlds 56 GB? O:
22:24 VanessaE wait, no
22:24 * Jordach already needs to expand the VDD on his VM
22:24 VanessaE the largest is 40 GB
22:24 VanessaE surely most of that is rollback data
22:24 VanessaE lemme limit the search
22:25 VanessaE there we go.
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22:26 Lugal but how is it possible? is each pixel explicitely saved?
22:26 VanessaE root@ks4006351:~# du -ch /home/minetest/.minetest/worlds/*/map.db
22:26 VanessaE ...
22:26 VanessaE 12Gtotal
22:26 VanessaE largest is actually 6.2 GB, smallest is 289 MB.
22:26 Jordach oh god 60fps rendering takes ages
22:27 VanessaE no, not each pixel, but each mapblock, which contains 16x16x16 nodes (a node is a single object such as a fencepost or a glob of dirt)
22:27 Jordach thats going to be a phat file when it finishes
22:27 VanessaE Lugal: the above is leveldb maps.  in sqlite format, it would be almost twice that size.
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22:28 Lugal is it not possible to make it smaller? I mean a 100x1000x1000 map which is really big, bould be just 100 MB
22:29 VanessaE Lugal: well a 1000^3 map wouldn't be saved in its entirety because Minetest only saves mapblocks that have been explored
22:29 Lugal so for a normal map maybe 10 MB
22:29 Jordach im surprised we don't have mapblock compression
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22:29 Jordach anytime a 16^3 area is the same node, make 1 entry in place of 16^3
22:29 VanessaE Lugal: also, a Minetest world can extend to just shy of 62 x 62 x 62 km in size.
22:29 Lugal if there is 16^3 dirt, is it not compressed?
22:30 VanessaE but only the mapblocks that have actually been visited (and ones nearby) will ever be saved to disk.
22:30 Jordach Lugal, not even compressed
22:30 VanessaE Jordach: not correct.
22:30 VanessaE Lugal: if you're using leveldb as your map format, some mild compression is used, yes.
22:30 VanessaE but not if you're using sqlite.
22:30 Lugal and one block= Byte?
22:30 Jordach VanessaE, if minetest did, that would save tons of space in areas such as skies
22:30 Jordach Lugal, wrong
22:31 Jordach (probably more than that)
22:31 VanessaE I forget how much data a mapblock takes, but a single node is like 4 bytes or something
22:31 Lugal but 1 byte would be enough
22:31 VanessaE Jordach: minetest relies on whatever compression the backend uses.  leveldb uses some low-end optimized-for-speed compression method.
22:31 VanessaE it ain't exactly "deflate".
22:31 Lugal 1 byte is enough for 255 different materials
22:32 VanessaE Lugal: Minetest supposed 32768 materials.
22:32 VanessaE supports*
22:32 Lugal lol
22:32 Jordach VanessaE, more depending on the compilation of the enginbe
22:32 VanessaE and you have to have info about other properties of a node, such as its rotation.
22:32 VanessaE Jordach: right.
22:32 Jordach VanessaE, because dem vectors
22:33 Lugal ah ok
22:33 VanessaE Jordach: the hard limit is 65534 but you'll recall why 32768 was chosen
22:33 Jordach i should query the number of nodes in BFD
22:34 VanessaE Lugal: anyway each node has a node reference (two bytes), a rotation/etc value called "param2", and a misc value called param1 (its usage varies depending on the node type)
22:35 VanessaE Lugal: and then there's metadata, such as text in a sign or ownership information for a locked door, and then a bit more data on top of that of course to designate the start/end of a map block I guess
22:35 VanessaE and then info describing things like entities in the mapblock
22:35 Topic for #minetest is now Latest stable version is 0.4.10 | Please be patient, responses may take a while. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | Logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ | Use https://mediacru.sh for images and http://pastie.org for text
22:35 Jordach there
22:35 VanessaE I don't know the exact format or size.
22:36 haylon left #minetest
22:37 exio4 compression is a tradeof
22:37 exio4 you could, using very expensive algorithms, compress a hell lot, and save lots of space, but then it'll be slow as hell
22:38 exio4 it is switching between hells
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22:53 Lugal do you know how to get the rendering work under windows as well as under linux?
22:54 theTroy1 joined #minetest
22:57 Lugal is open gl not by defualt installed in windows?
22:57 Lugal the performance is quite bad
22:57 Lugal in linux its perfect
22:57 VanessaE idk about windows; try the directx driver in the gam,e
22:57 VanessaE game*
22:58 VanessaE (you won't have shaders then)
22:59 VanessaE I only have Linux here and it generally runs okay though not as good for me as a lot of people here get
22:59 Jordach Lugal, OpenGL is availible by default
23:00 Jordach that's a misconception
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23:57 Tesseract <Jordach> im surprised we don't have mapblock compression -- https://github.com/minetest/minetest‚Äč/blob/master/doc/mapformat.txt#L275 "zlib compressed node data".
23:58 Tesseract Each node is 4 bytes too. u16 content ID, u8 param1, u8 param2.
23:59 Tesseract The mapblock format is actually pretty well compressed, although the id map is included in every block.

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